Green Papaya Deli - Lao-Thai in Oakland
- daveena Oct 7, 2007 01:27 PM
This is a relatively new restaurant on International Boulevard, attached to a Thai video store. The menu is very limited, which I think may be an advantage - one of the problems with Champa Garden is its massive menu - too easy to order something mediocre, and even the good dishes aren't consistently good.
I went for lunch, and only tried two dishes, but both were very, very good - a Lao-style papaya salad (it can be ordered either Thai or Lao style), and a beef larb. Both were well-balanced, although the larb was a little more intense (balanced, but intensely salty, sour, and spicy) than I normally like - I had to eat a lot of rice to clear my palate between bites. The papaya salad was just delicious - I love the flavor of fermented crab paste, though, so people who aren't into that should order the Thai-style, which is sweeter, and sans fermented crab.
When you order, they'll ask "how many peppers?" - I found five to be plenty for me (I'm a wimp) - I think it registered between a 2 and a 3 on Champa Garden's 5 point scale. My friends, who routinely eat spicy food, said they usually order 15, but have seen people go as high as 40.
Two dishes, plus 3 orders of sticky rice, were plenty for 3 people, and came out to about $5/pp.
The entire menu (we asked the owners to describe some of the dishes that didn't have English translations, but weren't able to get descriptions of everything - since the General Chowhounding Topics board came through for me with the Mongolian menu, I'll post the untranslated menu items there, too):
String bean salad
Soup (tome keurng nai)
Kao poont (noodle soup)
Sai Oaw (sausage)
Duck (pate tah bee)
Moke pa (best I can tell, sounds similar to Cambodian amok)
Som pug kaad
Soup nor mike (bamboo soup)
Green Papaya Deli
207 International Blvd (@ 2nd avenue)
Wow ... Thanks !!!
I drove by and noted the name but not the address. Tried to find it on the web and nada. Then I couldn't remember where it was located since I was driving around a bit.
It looked from the outside like a very clean, modern and nice place.
Very nice to know it has Lao dishes. Will definately try it out.
Green Papaya Deli
207 International Blvd (at 2nd ave, Oakland, CA
re: Marc Wallace
Thanks, all that registered was the name and it looked nice and I thought that of course there would be SOME info on line ... not ... well, until this report. I wouldn't have been able to narrow it down to 10 blocks or recognized it if I saw the exterior on line. I just knew it was somewhere in Oakland somewhere between 104th st and Lakeshore.
I had Lao papaya salad, sausage, and chicken sticks. The sausage was seasoned similarly to Champa's, but a bit more spicy, and the texture was coarse, with chunks of meat and fat as opposed to Champa's more smooth texture. I found it to be preferable.
I'd been somewhat leery of ordering Lao-style papaya salad, but here it is welcomely salty, and milder than I had feared. Still, I prefer Thai style, personally. The crab paste or whatever adds a distinctly fishy note, but to me this version was actually less fishy overall than some Thai versions that go heavy on the dried shrimp. Composition was otherwise very good. They pound the shredded papaya when they are making it up.
Medium spicy is not challenging to me, much less spicy than medium at Ruen pair, and on par or weaker than the most spicy I've had at Champa.
Chicken sticks were pleasantly flavored, if mildly seasoned.
Prices are about 10-20% lower than Champa, and as reported, the menu is much smaller. I didn't explore the specials at all. I will return, if I can get GF to agree.
And the General Chowhounding Topics board comes through for us again - here's a nearly complete translated menu.
Soup (tome keurng nai) ต้มเครื่องใน (cow/pig innard soup)
Kao poont (noodle soup) ข้าวปุ้น isaan dialect for kanom jeen noodles (ขนมจีน) a type of fermented fresh rice noodle.
Sai Oaw (sausage) ใส้อั่ว Northern style sausage. Pronounced more like sai ua. http://topicstock.pantip.com/klaibann...
Duck (pate tah bee) She doesn't know this. I'm thinking it could be duck pate -- ie: leftover french influence food from Laos.
Moke pa probably Thai Fish Hor-Mok ห่อหมกปลา -- like cambodian but spicier.
Som pug kaad ส้มผักกาด : she thinks it's chiang mai dialect for pickled cabbage like chinese giam chai
Som end don't know what this is
Soup nor mike (bamboo soup) ซุปหน่อไม้ It's actually 'sup nor-mai' a 'salad' made from pickled bamboo shoots (nor-mai). Not a soup. It's tasty.
Som moo don't know what this is, but 'moo' is pig/pork
Dried porkskin หนังหมู (deep fried pork skin - northern food eaten with chili paste)
Som moo is "sour/fermented sausage." You've probably seen related preps in Viet delis. Champa has this though maybe not in whole sausage form, I think it's the main component of Yum Nam there. I think it's probably also similar to the Thai sour sausage I've had at Thai House Express (Larkin), which also appears in a Fried Rice there. If you Google "som moo" a pretty nice Lao cooking website comes up, and there is a video of the guy making it.
There as one error in the transliteration of the Thai into English. The Som Pug Kaad (ส้มผักกาด) should actually be Som Phak Kaad. 'Som' means 'sour soup'. 'Phak' by itself means 'vegetable' but when combined with the 'Kaad' it becomes the Thai word for 'leafy vegetables' like cabbage.
Those dishes are actually Lao dishes, which is why the names are Lao names transliterated into English.
Thom Keung Nai: Lao innards soup
Khao Poon: Lao curry noodle soup
Sai Oua: Lao pork sausage
Pate Tah Bee: Lao duck pate
Moke Pa: Lao steamed fish wrapped in banana leaf similar to Cambodian "Amok" and Thai "Hor-Mok", but Moke Pa is lighter as no coconut milk is used
Som Phak Kaad: Lao pickled veggies, most likely cabbage
Soop Nor Mai (aka "soup nor mike"): Lao shredded bamboo shoots mixed with herbs and spices.
Som Moo: Lao pickled pork sausage with thinly sliced pork skin.
Kiep Moo: fried pork rinds eaten with Lao papaya salad.
Thai language is similar to Lao language, which is why there tends to be some confusion whenever someone reads off the names of Lao dishes. Just keep in mind that Central Thai cuisine has incorporated Lao dishes from the Isaan region of Thailand. So it's quite common to see Lao dishes served at Thai restaurants, but those Lao dishes (Larb salad, etc..) will usually be classified as Thai "Issan" food or incorrectly described as a generic Thai dish. Thai cuisine is influenced by the cuisine of Laos, which is Thailand's neighboring country.
Anyway, Lao and Thai dishes are generally very tasty and flavorful.
I forgot to mention that Lao papaya salad must be eaten with sweet sticky rice to tone down the strong fish taste and spices from the papaya salad. Use your hand to flatten a small chunk of sticky rice and then scoop up the papaya salad with your clump of sticky rice.
Thai-style papaya salad is meant to be eaten as a standalone dish, whereas Lao papaya salad is made salty because it's meant to be eaten with sticky rice and a meat dish.
Thanks so much for this tidbit of information. I've had Lao style papaya salad several times, some nearly stained black from copious amounts of fish sauce. I concluded that I didn't like it because I found it far to salty and pungent to enjoy. I shall give it a try again with sticky rice.
CORRECTION: I think I've made a mistake. The "Pate Tah Bee" dish is most likely grilled duck coated with bile to make it taste bitter. "Pate" is most likely Green Papaya Deli's transliteration of the Lao word for duck, which should've been spelled as "Bpet". Furthermore, "Tah" means to coat and I believe "Bee" means bile.
UPDATE: I went to Green Papaya Deli last night and the owner was extremely sweet and friendly. She asked for my feedback and was willing to modify the dishes to suit my taste. I felt that the Lao papaya salad was a little too pungent and salty than what I'm used to when eating Lao papaya sald. Every Lao person makes papaya salad differently. The version that I prefer is the Vientiane (Central Laos) version, which one can order by requesting the papaya salad to be "som som, wan wan", which means "sour sour, sweet sweet" or just "sweet and sour". I forgot to tell the owner that I wanted the papaya salad to be "som som, wan wan" so I ended up with something that was a little bit too salty and pungent for my taste buds, but it was still good. Again, one should always eat papaya salad with sweet, sticky rice. You should also mix in the rice noodles to balance out the papaya salad.
I also tried the Pad Mee Lao (Kua Mee) which is Laotian pan-fried carmalized noodles topped with sliced egg omelette. It was very simple, but tasty.
The beef larb (cooked version) was pretty good and authentic especially since it had tripe and other innards in it. In Lao cuisine, larb should be eaten with sweet sticky rice to tone down the saltiness. If you prefer regular steamed rice but would like your larb to be less salty, then just increase the rice to larb ratio when taking a bite with your spoon. In addition, there's many versions and recipes for larb in Laos. There's a dry version, moist version, bitter version, sour version, salty version, etc...depending on the region of Laos the chef is from. Some Lao cooks use dill and mint leaves in their larb, but there are those who don't. So if you have a specific larb version that you're craving, then definitely ask the owner or chef to accommodate your request.
I didn't try the Mok Pa (steamed fish wrapped in banana leaf), but I would like to say that dill is an herb that is frequently used in Lao cuisine and especially in the Mok dishes. Dill is called "Paksee" in the Lao language. In the Thai language, I believe dill is known as "Pakchee Lao" because dill isn't commonly used in Thai cuisine.
I also didn't get to try the Lao sausages because they had run out. I've eaten Lao sausages at Vientian Cafe and Champa Garden, but I definitely prefer the version at Vientian Cafe since it seemed more authentic though not exactly like the original version. I prefer the original version of Sai Oua (Lao sausage) which contains chunks of fat and pork rinds. I'm hoping that the version at Green Papaya Deli is even more authentic than the Vientian Cafe version. The version at Champa Garden is tasty, but I didn't like the texture because it was just too smooth. Lao sausage should have a chunky texture.
re: Robert Lauriston
I was actually referring to the texture of the sausage filling and not the actual thickness of the sausages. I'm not sure if you've had authentic Lao sausages before, but the filling should not have a smooth texture. The sausages should be stuffed with coarsely chopped pork, pork fat and pork rinds including the typical Lao herbs like lemongrass, kafir lime leaves, etc.. The problem here is that Lao restaurants in the U.S. tend to use ground pork or a food processor to blend the pork meat with all of the ingredients, whereas in Laos the sausage filling is hand made. That is, the pork is chopped by hand, which gives it a nice and chunky texture. Using ground pork or a food processor results in an unsatisfying texture for those who have had authentic Lao sausages before.
Second visit. Again, really good.
New dishes for me this time were the duck larb, the sai oaw, and the moke pa. Unfortunately, they didn't have a lot of the dishes I was interested in (the kao poont, the soup nor mike, the som moo, and the pate tah bee). On a Saturday night, it seemed like we were the only patrons who were not family, so maybe they need more customers before they'll start regularly offering the more labor intensive dishes.
Anyway, I liked the duck larb, but preferred the beef version - the duck seemed to muddy the flavors a bit. Still tasty, though. The moke pa was really delicious - spicier than the Cambodian amoks that I've had, and less sweet (no coconut milk, compared to the Cambodian version). The sai ouw was as twocents described - coarse, fatty, and flavorful.
It's probably just as well that the other dishes weren't available that day - the three dishes above, plus papaya salad, left me with enough leftovers for two dinners.
I got Lao style again - it was a little less funky than when I ordered it with friends who are regulars at the restaurant (the first time I had it, you could smell it from across the table), but it was still delicious.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the salt level in the larb was more manageable for me this time around.
I went for lunch today and tried the beef larb & sticky rice. I ordered the larb "spicy" but I think they could have kicked it up a notch. Still, it was quite tasty and a sprinkle of lime juice made it perfect. I loved the saltiness of the larb with both the cabbage and sticky rice. I wish I had ordered papaya salad but my coworker wasn't that hungry and I was hesitant to order too much for lunch. It was best I didn't since the larb portion was quite filling. I'll definitely be back for somtun after I saw them pounding it fresh in the mortar; their menu says "Lao-Thai somtun and food to go".
The owner mentioned that they would be removing the homemade food section of the menu. I'm hoping he only meant for lunch!
funny. I just saw this place last week, got a to go menu and was gonna eat and post on it today.. cant wait..
I thought i was gonna get to be the first too postt,, will report on it
I ate there tonight and it Rocked.. we had payapa salad,, 6 peppers.. the guy who was making it came over and asked how spicy I wanted it.. I loved it with the 6 , but gf said it would be better down 1 or 2 peppers. We had the fish in bannana leaf ..its delicious, and there is dill in there along with alot of other good stuff. I was not aware of dill in that particular type dish, but I know it is used for other fish dishes from the region. It was some kind of salt water fish, which I prefer to, say catfish, less grainy and does not have that strange dirt taste.., I digress... anyways also the chicken larb, which was Awesome, and sticky rice, and I had a can of coconut juice. Super good food, really nice folks, The atmosphere feels more like someone's house than a restaurant, with all the family members hanging out..I liked alot that it was not at all dummbed down for western taste, for instance, the larb had either sliced gizzard or heart ( I think) in there.. where most places catering to westerners delete it..
I had the Sai Oaw today and thought it was excellent. I've only had this once before at Vientian Cafe and this version was far superior. It was pretty moist, very well seasoned (with a distinctive lemongrass note), and the chunks of fat in it made it very addicting.
I also ordered Papaya salad but didn't specify Lao or Thai style. I'm a big fan of Thai style but I received the Lao version, which I'd never tried, so it's hard for me to judge the salad. I'm not used to the fermented crab paste so I didn't particularly enjoy it. I guess I have to come back and try the Thai style.. Thai House Express' version is my favorite at the moment.
Just to give a comparison... I went to the Hmong new year festival in Sacramento yesterday and had Lao Papaya salad. The version I had there did not have nearly as much fermented crab paste "juice" so the salad was more balanced.
So for those wanting to tree Green Papaya's version, ask them to hold back a little on the crab paste or ask to try it first. This is usually done when making papaya salad but I wasn't the given the opportunity last I went. I do remember them letting another customer try it on my first visit though.
Just went Saturday & I really enjoyed it. We had Chicken Stick, Pork Salad and a cool Egg Shrimp Omelette thing. I worry that no one was there around 12 on a Saturday.
Nice people. Clean, direct flavors and great prices. The chicken stick was the most boring. I loved my spicy pork salad. The server asked how hot and I said "Hot" and it was. Yay.
The scrambled egg shrimp thing had great fish sauce notes as well as green herbs like mint and maybe cilantro. The dish was perfectly cooked for me, fluffy and yet firm with a hint of browned bits, just barely. I don't like browned eggs so this was super.
The Pork Laab was neat. They brought out a pho fixin' like plate of cabbage, green eggplant and another nice light green I couldn't place. Mustard green? It was almost like the cabbage but earthier & more bitter. Shaped like Romaine heart leaves. The mint/lemongrass herbage was lovely. I liked the heat and they had two Thai chilis for garnish in case I wanted it hotter. I ended up halving them and tossing with all the pork/greens/eggplant. Not sorry about that. I did fish them out of my leftovers for fear they would ruin my porky fun with heat. The pork was a mix of, I think, skin and loin pieces. The skin was swollen this AM and still tasty but not as crunchy. Nice rice powder too. Salad was not overly dressed or gloopy.
The open-ish kitchen looked spotless. The sticky rice was pre-ziplocked for easy take away. I saw on the board that they were doing "Crying Tiger" which the male server said was "chest meat" grilled and then a spicy sauce on the side. it was 12$ so I passed.
Go. Go now, I have a worry that this place isn't going to last. Oh and the conjoined next door property rents videos! People were returning videos during our meal. Its across the street from Ao Sen, which opens at 8 am and smelled phenomenal. Anyone tried? Also near "Double D"
This place is great. Ive only went once last summer but it left an impression. We ordered the sai oew (lao sausage), laab gai, tam som (papaya salad lao style), and sticky rice.
The sai oew was cut into diagonal slices and served with cucumber slices. It was flavorful, fatty in a good way, and moist. great
The laab gai was also excellent. It was room temperature and very flavorful. It was very herbal with mint and possibly a few other herbs. the roasted rice powderadded nice texture and flavor. It was served with raw cabbage, long beans, and lettuce
The papaya salad was my favorite out of all of them. It was made lao style, which means it used fermented crab. It had such a unique flavor and was served with the requisite raw vegetables. It was very, um "fragrant", and there was some left over that we took home on BART. The other passengers gave us dirty looks because of the smell. The taste however was amazing and it was very spicy. They ask you how many chilis you want and i said 10.
The sticky rice was well...sticky rice. The texture and flavor really complemented the food. It's one of my favorite kinds of rice.
The price is very reasonable, but it is almost a mile from BART
Had a great lunch here yesterday. The note in the original post about the limited menu is out of date, they have 27 Lao dishes and 61 Thai dishes. Also, the hours have changed.
We stuck to the Laotian menu.
#3 long bean salad ($6.50) was the best I've had.
#18 bamboo shoot steamed ($6.50) was delicious, similar to the Thai House Express / Chai Thai Noodles dish but much milder on the funky fermented aroma and flavor.
#19 steamed fish in banana leaf ($6) was delicate and delicious, thoguh I prefer the Cambodian version at Angkor Borei in SF.
#21 Lao sausage ($6) was very good, though I like the stronger flavors of Champa Garden's version.
I'd order all of those dishes again. Great value, $25 before tax and tip for a big lunch for two, and we had about half the bamboo shoot left over. If only they had beer!
LOL! That is true, but as of late I've been noticing that more and more restaurants are now starting to make their own Lao sausages due to their increasing popularity. I suppose those restaurants are looking to increase their profit margin because it's cheaper to make those sausages themselves.
Anyway, I know for a fact that Green Papaya's Lao sausages are made in-house and I believe Champa Garden's Lao sausages are made in-house as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if some places that make their own Lao sausages would still occasionally use store-bought ones as back up whenever they don't have enough time to make fresh in-house sausages.