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I Hate the Noah's Bagels in Berkeley, Telegraph & Durant

j
jerry i h Oct 4, 2007 06:50 PM

Well, actually, I think their bagels are pretty good. However, I hate that late in the afternoon they have few, if any, bagels. This is when I want one. I just learned from a clerk, who probably let it slip inadverdantly, that they plan to be sold out of bagels at 3pm. If they have any left, it is random chance. The store officially closes at 6pm, so should not they try to have a full inventory until 6? If they want to be totally sold out at 3pm, why not simply close the store at 3? Do they think that selling 'leftovers' for people who come late in the afternoon is fair?

I am referring specifically to the store in Berkeley, Telegraph & Durant. You should see how pathetically empty their bins are late in the afternoon when I come home from work. No problem. If you are in the area, do not give your money to Noah's, but go to their competitor: Eclair Bakery. Just walk 2 blocks down from the Berkeley store on Telegraph, and this other bakery is right next to Buffalo Exchange. They do not have as many different types of bagels, but I have never been told that they are 'sold out' of the type of bagel I want. They are also much better than Noah's, because they also have cookies and heavenly, fattening french pastries just like in the fancy pastry cookbooks.

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  1. c
    chemchef Oct 5, 2007 09:16 AM

    Noah's also has the worst coffee and the worst customer service around (College Ave. store). However, I do crave their pumpkin bagels this time of year.

    On that note, who has good bagels in the East Bay? This is not meant to start a debate about Bay Area bagels vs. NY bagels. I just want to know who has a decent bagel in this area.

    Note: I bought something made by Eclair Bakery at the Berkeley Bowl once and it was so horrid, I had to throw it out. Never wanted to try anything from them again. Was this a fluke? Do they actually make decent baked goods, or was I right not to want to return?

    7 Replies
    1. re: chemchef
      lexdevil Oct 5, 2007 09:31 AM

      When I was a kid Eclair made something we called "square danish." The round coiled pastries were laid out on a sheet of pastry and baked together. They were then cut apart in squares. The primary ingredients (beyond butter and flour) were custard and raisins. "Square danish" were very tasty thirty to forty years ago. Most other things were okay. I get the feeling that quality has gone down over the years, but I should probably test this theory.

      1. re: lexdevil
        j
        jerry i h Oct 5, 2007 11:47 PM

        About Eclair:
        I have lived a block away for almost 3 decades. True, the quality has steadily declined over the years. Yet, today, even in it's reduced state, it is 10 times as good as the Noah's Bakery 2 blocks up. I encourage everyone who is even thinking about spending money at the Noah's on Telegraph at Durant, to please close your wallet, walk 2 1/2 blocks south on Telegraph to the Eclair bakery (1/2 block south of Dwight, next to Buffalo Exchange), and see how truly wonderful a bakery can be late in the afternoon during that study break. They have not only bagels, but a full variety of heavenly, delicious, and truly fattening pastries.

        History as I know it:
        The original store was next to Moe's, in the same place now occupied by 'Bay King' (to answer your next question: ignore this place, and walk one block south to the current location of Eclair).

        This poor place has changed ownership several times. The quality of the pastry has steadily declined over the years. At this point, your are quite likely to get pastry that is stale. Still, they offer a reduced but traditional selection of classic French pastisserie, and this is where I get my afternoon treat nonetheless (unlike Noah's, which has nothing but empty bins to offer me at that time of day; yes, I do mean to say that I would rather chance stale pastry at Eclair than bagel leftovers at Noah's).

      2. re: chemchef
        Glencora Oct 5, 2007 10:08 AM

        Compared to the horrible, huge, cottony bagels from Noah's, Manhattan bagels are better, though I've only had the onion. They're smaller, crunchier, less doughy, with slightly bitter onions. All the sandwiches and wraps in their flier look awful, but those bagels are okay. Before anyone slams me, no, I've never had a real NY bagel, but I do know a roll with a hole when I (don't) eat one.

        1. re: chemchef
          Stephanie Wong Oct 6, 2007 12:24 AM

          Try Boogie Woogie Bagel Boy
          1281 Gilman St
          Albany, CA 94706
          (510) 524-3104

          Sorry I can't seem to attach the proper place link; seems to want to attach the Alameda location.

          1. re: Stephanie Wong
            d
            dotMac Oct 6, 2007 10:17 AM

            They're now called Berkeley Bagel.

            Great bagels.

            (and one of the best cafe mochas I've ever had, somehow...)

            1. re: dotMac
              rworange Oct 7, 2007 04:09 PM

              Seriously go to Berkeley Bagel. I just found a favorite new-to-me place.
              http://www.chowhound.com/topics/448608

              Though I haven't been there at end of the day (4pm), my guess is that they have a lot of different bagels even then because they have a shelf of day-old bagels ... 6 bagels for $2.50

              Also the best French roast coffee I've had in a long time ... for $1. Bagels are 75 cents each ... such a deal.

          2. re: chemchef
            b
            bunky Oct 18, 2007 05:02 PM

            Manhattan Bagel on 4th street is the closest in the east bay to well, a real bagel.

          3. singleguychef Oct 5, 2007 10:20 AM

            While I share your pain in not having a bagel in the afternoon when you're craving it, I can also see from a business point of view how you don't want a full inventory at the end of the day because then you'll have a whole lot of day-old bagel every day. And who wants that? They've probably seen a pattern of higher purchases in the morning so they've made sure to be stocked in the morning but not in the afternoon, when the traffic probably slows down.

            I think the suggestion of buying one in the morning and keeping it for the afternoon is a good one.

            4 Replies
            1. re: singleguychef
              l
              Louise Oct 5, 2007 11:02 AM

              Having worked there I can say that yes, they try to not have a full inventory at closing because it usually goes straight into the trash.

              Toward the end of the day it was always a balancing act whether to make another batch of X flavor, because there was a lead time to defrost, rise, and bake, and what if you wind up dumping it?

              They won't sell it next-day. A food bank might pick it up and they can get a donation/deduction, but there is only so much bread a food bank will take. In any case, it is basically a loss for them which obviously they prefer to avoid.

              1. re: Louise
                j
                jerry i h Oct 5, 2007 11:09 PM

                "Having worked there I can say that yes, they try to not have a full inventory at closing because it usually goes straight into the trash.
                Toward the end of the day it was always a balancing act whether to make another batch of X flavor, because there was a lead time to defrost, rise, and bake, and what if you wind up dumping it?"
                Thanks for your honest experience. This is the sort of 'inside baseball' that I think more customers deserve to know about where they spend their money.

                My Disclaimers:
                1) I have some professional baking and pastry training and experiece at various Bay Area foodservice establishments, but never at one that made bagels, although I have had job interviews at bakeries that made bagels;
                2) I have never been east of the Missippi, so have never had a real bagel, and would not know one if flew up my a**hole.

                True, any foodservice business tries to minimize waste, but Noah's has gone way over the edge. I cite as my example that foccacia place in SF on Washington Square: when they run out of that day's production, they close their doors, no matter what the clock says. I think that the manager of the Berkeley Noah's can learn a lot by observing the operation of this highly respected and even legendary bakery.

                I have indications that even Noah's District Manager feels that it is OK to run out of bagels after 3pm everyday. As such, is it not very bad customer service to keep the doors open AFTER 3pm??? I should note that Noah's business model seems to have changed over the years, for the worst. When this branch first opened up many years ago, they ALWAYS had all bagels until they closed at 6pm; and after 5:30 it was discount time and you could buy a brown paper bag full of fresh bagels for not much money. I spent much money there, and my freezer wash ALWAYS full of happy bagels waiting for me. With this new business model of having totally empty bins at closing time, I have not spent a dime at Noah's for at least a couple of years, because they never have bagels when I want them. THEY NEED TO LEARN THAT THEY MUST SELL PRODUCT WHEN THE CUSTOMER WANTS TO BUY THEM, NOT WHEN IT IS CONVENIENT FOR THE STORE TO SELL OR MAKE THEM. This is simple business logic, and I wonder at what point Noah's lost their way.

                1. re: jerry i h
                  x
                  xanadude Oct 6, 2007 08:21 AM

                  False conclusion. Noah's sells other products which may sell better after 3 pm than bagels, like sandwiches, cookies, and soups.

                  It's the same thing with Starbucks and many other places that have breakfast and after-breakfast baked goods, including Tartine.

                  1. re: xanadude
                    j
                    jerry i h Oct 8, 2007 06:08 PM

                    Then they should call it 'Noah's Snack Shack'. Maybe if they concentrated more on their bagels and got rid of the other junk, the quality might get better. Or else, close at 3pm when the bagels stop selling (which seem to be their goal anyway).

            2. dhoffman1421 Oct 7, 2007 12:02 AM

              House of Bagel's puts Noah's to shame. Noah's does truly suck.

              1 Reply
              1. re: dhoffman1421
                wolfe Oct 7, 2007 04:15 PM

                actually noah's are not too bad if you finish cooking them.425 oven until golden brown.

              2. t
                tigersmom Oct 7, 2007 04:41 PM

                As a New Yorker living in SF for 20 years I am ashamed to say that I have out of desperation purchased more than one bagel from Noah's. I have been disappointed every time. Not to mention, they ALWAYS get my order wrong. Never leave without checking your bag first. The store in Laurel village is dirty, overpriced and smells bad. Go to House of Bagels on Geary or better yet...order some bagels from H&H Bagels in NY and stick them in your freezer.

                1. m
                  Marc Wallace Oct 8, 2007 08:09 AM

                  The ones in Oakland on Lakeshore and in City Center are even worse. The City Center one is usually out of all but a handful of flavors by lunchtime. The Lakeshore one, the last time I went, was selling bagel sandwiches but were "out" of mayo and mustard.. at 10:30am?? There was a grocery store (at that time) just across the street. (they also had a limited selection left even that early in the day)

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: Marc Wallace
                    l
                    Louise Oct 8, 2007 08:35 AM

                    Is the City Center one even open still? The last time I passed by the site was something else.

                  2. j
                    jtc Oct 15, 2007 06:13 PM

                    I'll tell you why I hate this place. I went in and ordered a sesame bagel with cream cheese and lox. When my order came up, I picked it up and sat down to eat. When I bit into it, I realized it was a chocolate-chip bagel with cream cheese and lox. When I returned to the counter to explain the mix-up, the counterperson stated, "That's what you ordered." I figured they are trying to generate a NY vibe, so I got into the mood by asking him what kind of @#$%^&%$ thinks someone would order that combination. Needless to say, he replaced it prompty.

                    1. The Chowhound Team Oct 19, 2007 12:03 PM

                      Folks, please help us keep this board focused on discussing the local chow scene. We welcome posts on this local out post of Noah's, or any of the other local bagel options. However, if you'd like to discuss Noah's in general, please head over to the Chains board, where that discussion is on topic. Thanks.

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