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Sep 26, 2007 09:20 AM

is there a dishwasher brand you can NOT go wrong with??

thorough cleaning without pre rinsing and impeccable drying.

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    1. re: fgf

      Agreed. I love my Bosch. I don't rinse. I only need to run the Quick Cycle (even if it's a full load) and everything comes up clean and dry.

      1. re: cecilia

        Our Kitchenaid works great and is very quiet.

        1. re: TonyO

          We have a KitchenAid, 4 yrs old and top of the line when new. Thank goodness we got the extended warranty (actually bought it a year into the machine). We've had to change the motor, and had the gasket around the door replaced 2x. We do not abuse the washer, scrape the plates clean before they go in. Weknow of 1 other person with KA dishwasher issues. I would DEFINITELY NOT recommend it.

          1. re: jnk

            MIELE Optima Series & yes - you really can put the fine bone china in there too - it's an incredible machine !

            1. re: JayVaBeach

              We also purchased the Miele Optima Series. It seems to offer the most features of what we use, and we did want a time read-out so we could see where we were in the cycle.

              Ours is just about a year old now, and we have had no problems.

              1. re: liu

                Hi LIU - Mine is incredible - folks cringe when they're over & watch me put my vintage tiffany crystal, as well as, my grandparents' wedding wedgwood bone china. I still refrain from putting good knives, as I've always been informed that the intense heat dulls the blades, but everything else goes in.

                1. re: JayVaBeach

                  I put my Baccarat into my Miele. Never a problem. As you say, Miele makes an incredible machine.

                  1. re: fauchon

                    JayVaBeach and fauchon -- It's always nice to hear how great a product is AFTER you have purchased it!!!!

                    1. re: liu

                      How are you liking/loving your Miele? Did I ever mention that I also have a Miele cooktop & oven...they're equally superb IME...far, far superior to my former Dacor...

                      1. re: fauchon

                        Hi, fauchon!
                        We had a KitchenAid for 20 years that served us well, so the Miele took some "getting used to." As with most new technology, it trained us!

                        I love the top silverware tray. I find it better to take the time to organize the utensils when I put them in, and then when I put them away, I do so in a fraction of the time: I grab all the knives together, all the forks, etc. This drawer also permits better use of space for the other two larger drawers.

                        One problem we were having concerned our stoneware dishes. They were a bit too thick for the smallish plate spaces in the rack; I just found the spaces too narrow. A few weeks ago, we purchased some thinner plates which do seem to fit these narrow slots better, but since we still use the fatter stoneware dishes, I still have the occasional problem of fit. Initially, I thought that perhaps we had the wrong racks -- maybe a European size?? -- but I was assured that this was not the case. So, I continue to struggle with this a bit. When we were looking for new dinner plates, we had to eliminate many of them because they were shaped with curves that would not fit our narrow slits.

                        However, everything else about this machine is great. I have become accustomed to the long cycle of about 2 hours; it just takes some planning. I can see why 2 dishwashers has become a popular trend!

                        I am glad that you are loving your Miele cooktop and oven. Did you buy their extended service plan? Have you had any service? If so, has it been extraordinary?

                        1. re: liu

                          I love the top tray too & for the same reasons. But when we first got it, I kept forgetting to unload it. Then I wondered what happened to our flatware!

                          I don't use stoneware so haven't had your issue...I do use Bennington Pottery dishes which are fairly hefty & they fit well...sorry you're having the problem.

                          Didn't get the extended service but whenever (hardly ever, in fact in the 20+ years I've had Miele) the service is excellent. They come when they say they will (no waiting around for a serviceperson) & even better, they fix whatever's wrong the FIRST time....

                          My dw has a "short" cycle that runs in about 25's basically the only one I ever need. Things come out sparkling fact, the "short" cycle was one of the reasons I chose this's called Premier Plus Touchtronic...I got it less than 2 yrs ago...I'm not sure if they make this one any more, tho.

                          1. re: fauchon

                            Yes! Yes!! I, too, kept forgetting to unload that top flatware drawer...after a year, I eventually got into the system! I just love this design.

                            fauchon...huh??? They "...come when they say they will (no waiting around...) & even better, they fix whatever's wrong the FIRST time..." ??? This is rather ... amazing! What unusual performance!!!
                            I am glad to hear this, and truly this is why we went with Miele.

                            Our Optima series also has a "short" cycle which runs about 25 minutes. It is only recently that I have begun using it and it is very helpful and effective. If I need a lot of dishwasher space for dinner, I can use this "short" cycle mid-day to clear the machine for dinner dishes. Yes, I would like a little more space, but somehow I am always able to load "just a couple more" somewhere. I like the convertibility of the two large drawers.

                            1. re: liu

                              LOL about forgetting to unload the top drawer...I kept wondering what happened to the flatware....takes a while to remember it's there when you're not accustomed to it...

                              I usually cook for 2/3 & don't have super dirty dishes/pots/pans...Since I've had this Touchtronic, I've found that I don't "need" one of the longer cycles since the "short" one cleans everything I can throw at it perfectly...I find it very convenient to be able to run the short cycle, empty the dw & quickly have it ready for next time...

                              1. re: fauchon

                                fauchon -- You can't imagine how valuable your information is about using the "short" cycle. This is a year later, and although I have done it a few times, I either forget, or more accurately I am afraid that I am not getting the "cleanest clean." However, it does seem to do the job quite efficiently, so with you in mind, I will now make better use of this option! Hey, it feels as though I just discovered a new dishwasher in the house!

                                Wow, this is a great site, because my friends don't want to talk about dishwasher cycles!!! But sometimes these little "use hints" make life so much easier!

                                1. re: liu

                                  Hope the short cycle will work as well for you as it does for me! Please report back...This is OT but one of the best "little hints" ever was the one I found on here about keeping herbs/fruits etc in glass jars. Really's made such a difference! simple yet something I'd never known or heard about before CH.

                                  1. re: fauchon

                                    I'm laughing! It truly is the little things that hugely improve our daily lives!!

                                    1. re: liu

                                      I've not had to have mine serviced yet, but it's nice to read your great experiences nonetheless! My Optima Series is one of the best kitchen purchases I've made this year. Last year it was my refrigeration - I love my kitchen!

    2. I love my Bosch too -- when it works. Four controller boards the first three years. So, a lemon is possible with any of them.

      But, I would still consider buying another one because everyone else has had a good experience and it cleans well and is really, really quiet.

      1. I like my Miele. Very quiet but cycle does take time to complete. Dishes super clean,spotfree, dry and no prerinsing. Two times that I thought I would need service I called the given 800 number and technician walked me through repair saving me the cost of repair.

        9 Replies
        1. re: foodseek

          I don't know how long the Miele takes to complete, but the normal Bosch cycle and the Powerwash cycle takes from 120 to 145 minutes, according to the timer. I don't seem to be able to get away with the Quick Wash, as mentioned by another poster, on anything other than lightly soiled loads -- probably because I only do one load per day (so everything dries up on the plates).

          1. re: RGC1982

            Re the Quick Wash, I only run my dishwasher twice a week. Even dried up baked on lasagna comes right off. Maybe there is a performance consistency issue.

            1. re: RGC1982

              I second (or third?) the Miele. Great machine, if a bit pricey. I guess the Bosch takes just as machine typically indicates somewhere between 1 hour 50 mins and 2 hours 10 mins for a regular cycle (how it decides the time I don't quite know, but I guess it could have to do with incoming water temp. And I never bothered to acctually time it to see if it shortens up the run time as the hottest water starts reaching the machine from the basement water heater.)

              1. re: ChefBoyAreMe

                You pose the same question I have, ChefBoyAreMe. We also have the Miele dishwasher, and every full cycle has its own time schedule. How does it decide?

                I rather doubt that it is water temperature because the time is posted just as it is turned on. Perhaps it has something to do with the preceding load: if it was dirty, then the machine "thinks" that the current load will also be dirty. In this way, after many loads, it has come to recognize the user's habits...give or take a few minutes.

                This is the best guess I have. What do you think? Does anyone else know?

                1. re: liu

                  Thank makes some sense...I've heard that some brands of washers have "fuzzy logic" that looks at how dirty the wash water is getting, and adjusts cleaning time to ensure good results--longer for dirty loads, shorter for easier ones. It would make sense that the Miele, a pricey machine, would be one of the brand's likely to have this ability

                  1. re: ChefBoyAreMe

                    Yes, this is what seems to be working...similar to the technology in my car which makes the appropriate adjustments for my driving habits. It is as if the dishwasher is "learning" from my habits and making the internal adjustments to fit my dishwashing style...ingenious, huh!

                    I have a rice cooker with this same's just amazing!

                  2. re: liu

                    The Bosch says in its documentation that it is measuring the hot water temp and calculates the run time at that exact moment. I guess it is possible, since it IS connected to the hot water pipe.

                    1. re: RGC1982

                      Interesting information, RGC1982. Thanks!
                      There is definitely some real interaction going on between the user and the machine. It is almost a year later and each load sets for a different time.

              2. re: foodseek

                I'm on my 2nd Miele. The first one lasted over twenty years...they wash & dry perfectly, are so quiet I have to look at the display to see if it's running, they rarely if ever need service, the company is fantastic & really stands behind their products. I'm a totally satisfied customer & would never buy anything but a Miele. Mine has a short cycle that runs about 25 minutes & it's the about the only one I ever use or need. I love it so much I just bought a Miele cooktop & oven and find them excellent...infinitely superior to my former Dacor....

              3. I have to say that I'm not an expert on machines, but can tell you for sure that the detergent that you use will make a big difference...especially would suggest that you avoid using anything with a citrus base or scent. The citrus (possibly the acid) is very hard on glassware and will cause etching.

                1 Reply
                1. re: nieves

                  It is the minerals in the water that causes etching. We have very hard water and learned this very quickly, not the detergent. So we hand wash lead crystal. The lead in the crystal actually softens the glass. Some very fine, thin crystal glasses like some of the Baccarat you can actually flex slightly. Regular every day glass ware does okay in the dishwasher.

                2. I think you can get a lemon with all of them, or at the very least have your own nitpicks about this or that quirk of how they work. And electronics can fail on any of them. As far as cleaning, all but the cheapest el cheapo cleans well these days. Even $400 units clean without pre-rinsing. Most of the rest of the costs for expensive ones are convenience features, more quiet, more efficient, extra gentle cycle for crystal, etc. Drying is tougher IMO. I have a Bosch now. It's a tradeoff. I think it dries less well, but the advantage is there's no electric element in the bottom so you can put plastic in the bottom rack. Even some rather expensive units still use an electric element in the bottom. These I think still dry better (if you use it, although they use more electricity that way usually), but you have to stick to the old way of putting most plastic stuff only on the top rack. I'd rather have the Bosch or similar unit and have it dry less well.

                  2 Replies
                  1. re: CrazyOne

                    Funny, with all the problems I've had with my Bosch unit (which was undoubtedly a lemon, based on what else I read), I love the fact that it washes at 180 degrees and that it has no heater coil. I never have to worry about what small piece of tupperware fell onto the bottom and is melting on the coil. But yes, I agree that the tradeoff is less drying because it relies mostly on evaporation. Not a big deal, really, since I ended up with water in the bottom of my inverted drinking glasses with the last two units I had (different brands). But for me -- the key selling feature was the QUIET. This unit is in the middle of my very open kitchen/breakfast room/family room -- and I really don't want to hear the dishwasher running. Before this, I washed everything on delayed operation so that it ran after we went to bed at night just to avoid this.

                    1. re: RGC1982

                      Sorry you got a lemon--we bought the cheapest Bosch about 6 years ago and the only problem we've had is that the mechanical timer dial sticks sometimes (told you it was the cheapest! I don't think they even make one anymore with a mechanical timer!)

                      But like you, we have an open kitchen/family room and the quietness of the Bosch compared to its predecessor (Magic Chef--RUN don't walk away from these) is amazing. When we first got it, we kept running into the kitchen to see if it was still on!