441693 Sat Sep 15 20:40:50 -0700 2007 16 34 Wine 0 2945356 i just had the experience of opening a btl of Finca Solano (dirt cheap tempranillo from TJ), which I've had many times in the past and remember as being a decent QPR drinker, taking first sips that seemed pleasant enough, and then as i started in on dinner (some mixed pizzas from Gioia's), noticing the wine take on a sort of bitter, medicinal (cough syrup) note, and start to warm the chest in an almost heartburn-y kind of way. Now, this isn't the first time this has happennedm in fact it happened the other night with a Dourothat I had higher expectation from (though the Douro wasn't as strong in its effect). In fact, I've noticed this not infrequently in my normal wine drinking, but haven't paid enough attention to ferret out any patterns etc. Does anyone have an idea of what I'm talking about? is it a flaw in the wine? a function of food pairing? heat from alcohol? a phase of aeration? something else? any help appreciated as I'd like to avoid this in the future. Thanks, mike Sat Sep 15 20:40:50 -0700 2007 116828 baald 1 2945634 Sorry to hear this is happening, mike...I'm wondering if what's causing this actually *is* heartburn, as you say, and reflex...that would explain the heat in the chest you mention and possibly the odd taste of the wine. It's just a guess, though. Sun Sep 16 00:50:34 -0700 2007 2945356 18222 maria lorraine 2 2945857 Thanks for the reply, ml. It's not *actually* heartburn, as much as being able to feel it like a shot of whiskey, and even that is probably an exageration. However, I don't think it's a matter of heat in the wines, as they are all typical table wines, give or take a point or two of EtOH. I'll start paying better attention (eg, whether it only happens with food, whether other people can taste it too, etc) and report back. I'll also re-taste the bottle that spurred me on to write this, as it's had a day of air now (for some reason, I think this is a phases-of-aeration phenomenon, though I'm open to it being a chemistry-of-mike's-mouth phenomenon as well, I just hope it's not). thanks, mike Sun Sep 16 07:33:33 -0700 2007 2945634 116828 baald 1 2946128 Baald... to try to get to the heart of the matter, why don't you experiment first with wines of different alcohol levels.... Try a low-alcohol riesling vs. a high-alcohol zinfandel or aussie shiraz, for example.... see if that affects you differently. THEN... experiment with different vintages of the same wine... a thin, austere vintage which usually emphasizes alcohol notes vs. a very lush fruity vintage where the alcohol is balanced by the fruit layers... see if that doesn't make a difference, perhaps a big difference. from the above, you may be able to nail down how you are affected by ABV levels and by lush vintages vs. austere... Lastly, take note of sulfites and other additives that might be in one wine vs. another, and compare that to a purely organic wine, for example.... Sun Sep 16 09:46:02 -0700 2007 2945356 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2946173 Too much alcohol can numb the palate and make wine taste flat and bitter. What's the percentage? Sun Sep 16 10:17:52 -0700 2007 2945356 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2946392 Perhaps you should avoid cheap, poorly made wine from Trader Joe's (sounds the wine had unacceptable levels of VA). Pony up and go to a real wine shop, with paid staff that can help you find wines you may enjoy. Sun Sep 16 12:01:31 -0700 2007 2945356 97345 Vinny Barbaresco 2 2946543 Vinny idea's that your chest "warming...heartburn" may be caused by cheap wine is a good insight. Often cheap wines have harsh congeners that cause a vascular response that includes warming and a flushed (reddened) chest. I've heard reports from wine drinkers that they get this response only when consuming cheap wines, and never when drinking moderately priced/more expensive wines. The chest burning/warming may be unrelated to the medicinal/cough syrup flavor of the wine. That's just a disagreeable flavor, another indicator of a poorly made, possibly cheap, wine. Vinny is right. Trade up. See what happens. Report back. Sun Sep 16 13:11:00 -0700 2007 2946392 18222 maria lorraine 3 2947463 Well, I don't buy *all* my wine at TJ's ;) so i'm not sure it's a "cheap wine" phenomenon. Also, it doesn't seem to appear for the full length of time a bottle is open (and the Finca Solano is labelled at 12.5% ABV) so i'm not sure it's an alcohol heat. The "chest warmth" i describe was entirely coincident with the onset of the medicinal quality, which is why I attribute it to the flavor. But in the interest of science, i'll try to swear off inexpensive wines :) VA might be a possibility, especially as my understanding is that it could lead to chemical changes over time, though I don't remember anything on the nose that would make me suspect it, nor excess acidity on the palate. My original thinking is that it was what i've seen referred to as "bitter tannins", or tannins "clamping down". Dunno. i'll report back with my findings though. thanks for everyone's input. Sun Sep 16 19:42:51 -0700 2007 2946543 116828 baald 2 2947301 I agree with Vinny's recommendation - stay away from TJ's wines and cheap wines in general. See what happens. Sun Sep 16 18:40:10 -0700 2007 2946392 118541 olasek 2 2947469 for the record, i buy most of my wine at VERY reputable bay area wine shops, but every once in a while have to grab something at TJs. And the wine in question is organic and has been reviewed ok from what i've seen (it's not a bronco, ie). mike Sun Sep 16 19:46:22 -0700 2007 2946392 116828 baald 1 2947505 well, day two with the bottle having been stored corked at room temp, no vacu-vin or private preserve. The bitter/medicinal characteristic has faded about 75%. i'm getting a little bit of fruit in the nose, as well as a little bit of earth, and a bit of blood or meat. The palate has gained a bit of fruit (black cherry i think) and retains a hint of cough syrup conjoined with that fruitiness. the finish sports a bit of baking spices. I should note that before the overly medicinal/bitter thing came on last night, it showed as a soft moderately fruited wine (more cherry than black cherry). i'll post another note tomorrow night just for kicks. and later this week i'll open either a 2003 chant cigale CdP or a 96 Pagodes de Cos (2nd wine of Cos d'Estournel). Maybe i should have the same dinner to see if there is an adverse interaction with either of these "trade up" ;) wines. mike Sun Sep 16 21:14:50 -0700 2007 2945356 116828 baald 2 2950344 I'd recommend get someone else along for the ride. If it's you, as the other posters above (and I'd include myself) believe, the other drinker most probably won't experience it. Mon Sep 17 17:19:05 -0700 2007 2947505 28703 RicRios 2 2952433 Baald... based on your report that this sensation DECREASES after a day, I would tend to think the problem lies more with tannin levels, or with lack of aereation in general... Next time, right out of the gate try decanting your wine first,... do a hard pour, swirl it and let the wine rest for an hour or more.... and see if this doesn't decrease the medicinal impressions.... To verify this, keep some of the wine in the bottle, and taste them side-by-side, a glass of the decanted wine, and a glass of it straight from the bottle undecanted. Tue Sep 18 10:44:16 -0700 2007 2947505 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2954068 a few things to consider: 1. Wine just isn't that good and is unbalanced. Less expensive wines can have a lot of bottle variation. So you might experience lots of range in quality from bottle to bottl 2. Your glass had some sort of chemical detergent residue on it. How do you wash your glasses? If you use dishwasher detergent, beware! 3. The shape of the glass you are drinking from. Just attended a tasting led by Georg Riedel, and he demonstrated that certain bowl shapes accentuate the alcohol and de-emphasize the fruit in wines. They have specifically crafted a glass for Oregon Pinot Noirs that is meant to bring out the fruit, but it also makes the alcohol more prominent. I wouldn't have believed it myself, but I experienced certain glasses totally hiding the fruit in a wine and leaving you with just the acrid, bitter and alcoholic components on the palate. Tue Sep 18 18:02:20 -0700 2007 2945356 113663 domaine547 2 2954099 Riedel's trick glasses don't work in blind laboratory tests. See "Shattered Myths" by Daniel Zwerdling in the August 2004 Gourmet. Tue Sep 18 18:14:28 -0700 2007 2954068 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 2954114 see the New York Times article from this morning...I am not fully buying into the "trick" glasses, but certain basic shapes DID have a great impact on the aromas (and therefore the experience) of the wines we tasted. Journalist Amy Cortese is more convinced than I am but it was certainly an eye-opening experience. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/business/yourmoney/16wineglass.html?_r=1&oref=slogin Tue Sep 18 18:21:22 -0700 2007 2954099 113663 domaine547 1 2958197 well, tonight i'm drinking 2005 Eric Texier Brezeme (northern rhone - 100% syrah), with nothing but pleasure. so why not write off the subject of my OP to cheap wine (not that the brezeme is expensive - around $20). the Brezeme is also a nice change after the past few syrahs that i've had (cali and australia). much more old world - structure, mineral, bacon fat, no heat... picking up more tomorrow :) Wed Sep 19 21:56:38 -0700 2007 2945356 116828 baald