Can restaurants survive on locally sourced ingredients? [Moved from Boston Board]

[basilandeggs]

Looking for understanding here... I was at a dinner party in the Boston area over the weekend and conversing with another guest, a chef/restaurant business consultant. While discussing the chance for success for a new, upscale restaurant in our community, I suggested that people in our town would be more likely to patronize the restaurant if they knew that the chef/owner were sourcing his produce as much as possible from our local farmers' market and CSA, or at least from our region. The response from the expert was astonishing, to say the least. He was furious and expounded on my "naivete" in expecting restaurants to survive financially if they were limited to buying produce from local sources.

Is the Buy Local movement, unbeknownst to me, a political hot button in the restaurant business? Now that the movement is hitting the mainstream, does it indeed threaten in any serious way how business has been done?

Please no flames! I'm still scorched.

Thanks.

[Morton the Mousse]

No restaurant can source *all* of their ingredients locally. (i.e. salt, spices, coffee)
Every restaurant can source *some* of their foods locally.

Local ingredients can be more expensive, they can also be cheaper. It all depends on the ingredient, the purveyor.and the season. Sourcing local ingredients requires more work; you can't just add them to the Sysco delivery. Many "locavore" restaurants have a farmers' market buyer on payroll!

Every restaurant is faced with the decision of how much to spend on ingredients. As a general rule, more expensive ingredients taste better. Some chefs feel that if they use local ingredients, they will have to raise prices and they will lose patrons, even if the food tastes better. For other chefs, local ingredients are part of the formula that creates a hit. In the SF Bay Area, it is almost impossible for a mid-priced or fine-dining restaurant to thrive without sourcing locally.

Sounds to me like the chef you spoke to was on the defensive. He sees a new movement threatening his success, and he's afraid to change his practices. But his claim that no restaurant can buy local and survive financially is dead wrong - Chez Panisse just celebrated 36 years.

[MakingSense]

You're absolutely right! It's even more correct to say that you're on the money!
I think people love when restaurants highlight local products that make their regions special. Who wants to go to New Orleans and eat salmon from the Northwest? Or go to New England and seafood from the Gulf Coast? When I go to San Francisco, I want local produce and seafood. Tell me about it on the menu with pride. This is the season for dungeness crab or a certain type of mushroom that I can't get on the East Coast.

Frankly, I think the whole idea of "nothing from outside of a certain radius" is a stupid affectation. Ever since we've had pack animals and sailing ships, we've brought spices and exotic foodstuffs back home to enrich our tables and our lives. Nobody cares about the provenance of coffee, salt, olive oil and other staples as long as they're of excellent quality. Restaurants should highlight as much as they can of the seasonal bounty of their regions. They're fools not to use this as a marketing tool.

Small places may not be able to afford a special buyer, but this trend is significant enough now that brokers are making these products available in many markets, even away from the coasts and major cities. Small farmers are willing to produce for restaurants, even delivering to their doors, because they can get more for their crops.
There may be even more Pride-of-Place in other sections of the US than there exists in some of the major cities like San Francisco. They never lost their regional cooking. They just need to start highlighting it.

[MakingSense]

Carol Greenwood, chef at Comet Pong-Pong, in Washington, DC, cans all the restaurant's tomatoes for the year late every summer from local producers. Thousands of pounds for the pizzas they serve.
The chefs at Restaurant Local in Easton, MD, can local peaches. They serve the spiced peaches throughout the winter to accompany game dishes. I think they were planning to add more canned items this year. Their menus are almost all local produce, seafood and meats from nearby farms. There is also a shrimp farming operation that harvests shrimp in the morning for use that day by Rest. Local and several other restos in Easton and Annapolis.

[TonyO]

Vermont has a big push on "Buy Vermont First" and sourcing locally. In theory, I agree with the concept yet I have some issues. If the quality and cost of the product is comparable to those available outside of this market, I'm all for it. However, I am not going to pay a 30% + premium for a similar product just to support a popular movement. I have often suggested that a local discount be granted to help this movement. Let's face it, a major cost component is distribution/transportation. So, if I am willing to buy direct from a farm/brewery/slaughterhouse/cheesemaker etc. thus decreasing/eliminating their distribution cost shouldn't some of the cost savings be passed on ?? I know this doesn't wok in all instances, but I have seen it work and feel it is in everyone's best interest. Kind of like a "neighborly discount". Taken a step further, the barter system is even better and I have seen that in action with great results.

[soupkitten]

when buying direct, you ARE getting a discount-- you've cut out the shipper, distributor, and the retail locations, with their markups. the commodification of food leads many consumers to want discount prices on all products all the time-- walmart, costco, sysco-- no room for the little ethnic deli, artisan bakery, or small family farm that still does a lot of the labor by hand. . . but the boards are full of people bemoaning the demise of their favorite small food establishment, in business 100 years but recently put out of business by the big box store. . .

when people make food products outside of a factory situation the price of the product must be higher to reflect the overhead of a small company/farm/restaurant. it simply costs more to be the little guy (sourcing) and costs more to put the product out (staffing, fees/insurance, overhead, taxes, ad nauseum). many people pay the so-called "premium" because they want to support the very existence of the small local establishment/artisan/farm, with an eye to future growth, more products, lower prices eventually. if these "little guys" never get off the ground in the first place, their products die with them and all that's left is tyson meat product with a factory bun and pump cheese and generic ketchup. . .

[TonyO]

I guess there are exceptions to every rule. I find Costco to be a well run source for many items. Sure I can buy meat at a small local store (and quite often I do) but I will suplement those purchases with trips to Costco. I understand the economies of scale and how it factors into pricing. I just do not appreciate those companies / stores / home businesses that feel they can charge ridiculous prices because they are "local". In most cases, they are in fact the ones that go out of business because they abused a great concept in the quest for greed. It really is simple: make a product you are proud of, charge a far price, and support the community you are part of.

[soupkitten]

well, i don't know whom you are referring to, Tony, but in my experience, when the costs of business are factored into a product, the small artisan producer really MUST charge more for a product that on the surface is very similar to a mass-produced one. the small farmer charging $2 for the pepper a block away from walmart where a similar pepper might go for $1.19 is not trying to rip you off, she's trying to pay the costs associated with bringing her product to market, and put a nickel away to support her family this winter. if she charged $1.25, $1.19, or $1, she'd lose her farm-- simple. two farmers at the same market may have to charge different prices for similar bags of apples because their operations costs are very different. small producers generally charge more for their products because they are paying more people to produce less product, on one hand, and have relatively high costs & overhead for the amount of product, on the other. when you examine the small business' profits & failure rate vs. big business' profits & failure rate, it's pretty easy to see who's really making money. comparing a small butcher to costco isn't fair at all, the small butcher pays out much more in labor & overhead in comparison to costco-- he must charge you 40 cents more on most cuts, or go out of business. hopefully you like his recipe for breakfast sausage enough to keep him in business.

[TonyO]

Just keep in mind that all businesses started small. I often buy local produce and meats because of a quality difference. However, I have seen local meat such as beef sirloin go for $12/lb. I think that is ridiculous and certainly hope that consumers don't support extortion (even if it is their neighbor). Your example about Walmart is well taken, and I am proud to say I have never purchased a single food item from them. On the other hand, when a company like a local microbrewery extols the virtues of supporting local business and I can find their product three states from here for a lower price I have an issue with that. All I am saying is if you want local support, it is a two way street.

[MakingSense]

A microbrew in a different state might be priced differently because of different state taxes on alcoholic beverages or state controls on the distribution system.

[MakingSense]

Of course you're right, TonyO, there are purveyors who charge ridiculous prices. Their products and their costs of production - including taxes and overhead - don't justify what they charge customers. They charge what they want because some people are willing to to pay it.
Sometimes it's because the locations are convenient, the stores are elegant, products are trendy or there's some sort of validation for the consumer to say that they trade at a particular place, when they can purchase the identical item at a nearby store for less. You often get a much nicer shopping bag for your purchase. You can tell everyone you shop there. Maybe the owner knows you by name.
Everybody knows who they are in most communities. P. T Barnum lives.

[bulavinaka]

Back in the day when refrigeration was sketchy and the nation's transportation infrastructure was crude and much slower, one really didn't have a choice but to source most things locally. I recall old-timers from my childhood telling me story after story of how their moms canned, jarred and stored most of their fruits and vegetables that they consumed during the winter monthes. Eating greens from nasturtiums, dandelions and other plants most of us consider no longer "normal edibles," was common back in the midwest. Once various infrastructures increased their sophistication, more and more food items became available, more "discoveries" were made, and here we are now. Think of trading along the Silk Road but accelerate the technology and transportation lines by manyfold.

Once the cat was let out of the bag, there was and is no turning back in most peoples' minds. IMHO, once the average consumer becomes used to having certain foods available, the only thing that may change one's mind is its price. And even then, this may reduce one's consumption of any said desired food item but not cut it out.

I'm in LA where so many agricultural items are available 12 monthes a year. Yet even here in the state that provides the majority of fresh fruits and vegetables to the nation, we are guilty of wanting a peach in January or a pear in June - South America obliges us by shipping these products from the Southern hemisphere. Chilean Sea Bass from the Southern Ocean can be had in just about any part of the world. Special boutique mineral waters from Europe are making their way across the Atlantic to then be distributed throughout the US. Durian, the "King of fruits," along with farm-raised shrimp are shipped frozen from Thailand and are now considered normal grocery options for many shoppers.

I guess anything can be labeled, "political." Political is an all-encompassing vague term that can take into account just about every aspect of our lives as individuals, as a society, a governmentally-controlled geographic region, or just about anything else you want it to mean.

I think I hear from where you're coming from. And like global warming (that seems to be very much politics in that it is becoming more and more encompassing), which this issue has a direct tie to, I think the sea change needs to come more from one's understanding and concern about how one's way of living life may be affecting other things. When this lightbulb goes on atop one's head, then maybe more will accept responsibility for there own ways of living and only from there can true change occur.

A small but ever-increasing number of mid- to high-range restos in LA are starting to announce on boards and in menus that they are starting to source more and as much of their ingredients from local providers. A frozen yogurt shop called, "sno:la," just opened up where they are proud to announce to all that they use nothing but organic everything that goes into their products. Okay, this doesn't follow the concept of local sourcing but wait - they also let everyone know that their shop was built using "green" principles of construction and everything where there is a recycled alternative is offered, they use it. In other words, there are many ways to contribute in a positive manner to addressing what many feel are some of the benefits that local sourcing can create. Now that lightbulb above your head hopefully flashed on again, was that an incandescent or a compact flourescent?

[MakingSense]

The chef had a point about the financial challenges of local sourcing. It's not the cost of the produce or other ingredients which are equal to or sometimes cheaper than similar quality from standard purveyors. It's the time and effort involved dealing with so many small producers, getting those goods to the restaurant from all over a multi-county/state area, coping when the supplies don't show up or the producer runs out, and simply dealing with small purchases from many suppliers rather than a few big ones willing to extend credit. It takes a lot of time to build up those sources and if something happens to one of them, where's the Plan B?
Additionally, if the restaurant is in a short-growing season area, local produce is limited through much of the year. It's possible to serve it but Americans no longer have any sense of what is seasonal. We're used to asparagus, lettuce and raspberries year-round. Would his clientele be thrilled to have sides of turnips, parsnips, carrots, and cabbage from November through March? Our ancestors ate that way and it's possible to do wonderful things with beans and "put-up" foods but that's not what people will accept in restaurants. They've come to expect those fresh veggies from far, far away in the dead of winter, those tropical fruits anytime they chose.
I agree that more restaurants should celebrate their local foods - New England seafoods and heritage products and recipes - but the combination of the efforts involved and people's expectations make it more difficult than it seems.
Buy Local sounds great until you really think it through. How much out of season stuff from far away do you buy? It's much harder for chefs.

[tom porc]

"turnips, parsnips, carrots, and cabbage"

The chef would have to be extremely creative to use those very inexpensive produce items in a way to justify charging $25+ an entree.

[MakingSense]

Chefs are supposed to be creative. Americans have become so accustomed to out-of-season produce that we've stopped using the winter veggies. There are lots of fabulous things that can be done with them. If high-end restaurants lead the way, consumers will begin to appreciate them, experiment with them and realize that it is possible to "buy local" even in winter.
After all, our American ancestors managed somehow to eat well through long snowy winters without produce trucked and flown in from across the world. We've just got to readjust our lazy culinary thinking. Consumers in high-end restaurants are more likely to be accepting of attitude adjustments.

[Karl S]

I've seen that for some time on a featured but not exclusive basis - most restaurants that *limit* themselves to that are not going to do well as those that don't. And the margins would have to justify it. I don't see that as very likely given the fixed costs around here. Asking restaurants to go under for the sake of adjusting their customers' lazy culinary thinking* is a hard sell.

* It's not just lazy thinking; it's it's evil opposite twin, as well - rigid food preferences. People who will not eat X, Y and Z, unless A, B, or C are done to them... We've seen what havoc that attitude wreaks upon restaurant kitchens. And then there is the fact that the American palate has been so coarsened - not just by processed foods and salt, but also by the emphasis on Big! Fresh! Flavors! Restaurants that lightly season their foods tend to go under (I've known a couple of nice ones, and I saw how they got savaged for it, even by fellow Hounds).

[Karl S]

Well, much of the seafood served here in New England comes From Away...with the fisheries spent, the former dazzling array of local seafood is much diminished, and like many I am divided about promoting it - not great for fishing stocks, but necessary for supporting the fishermen whose skills are going to need to be kept in active knowledge if the fisheries recover in a generation or two or worse....

[queencru]

Good point about fish. I know it's the same here in Florida, especially with grouper. There's a limited supply and it's very expensive, so we have restaurants that just lie and pretend they have Florida grouper.

[MakingSense]

That's mixing mass market apples with specialty market oranges. For the small amount of locally needed seafood, restaurants in New England could source line-caught, day boat seafood, the kind that wouldn't be available easily to consumers anywhere but at the most upscale fishmongers. This would mean offering Maine shrimp in season rather than Gulf shrimp, Wellfleet oysters, peekytoe crab rather than blue crab, lobster, cod, haddock, whatever else New England waters are known for.
These products can be promoted in the same way that locally produced beef, pork, dairy, eggs, and seasonal produce, are touted on menus.
The seafood served in NE comes from "far away" but in the places where it comes from, diners are eating seafood from NE. We've all got to start cherishing our local bounty instead of trading it, shipping it everywhere and depleting the fisheries. Some of this is from laziness and ignorance of what local waters have to offer.
High end restaurants promoting local seafood may spur a better appreciation for it.

[Karl S]

There are high end restaurants that promote local seafood as you describe. Probably more than enough right now. That's one reason why fresh (rather than previously frozen) local seafood has become prohibitively expensive for many home cooks, because those restaurants bid up the limited supply. Which price, btw, is still probably below what it should be to help protect the fishery stocks, but it's at the point where people are loosing connection to what really fresh fish can be like. Yes, one can go to Asian markets for fresh fish, but there are a couple of barriers to average American consumers (labelling and communication, in the first place, and uneven quality, in the second). Fish, which used to be a poor man's food, has become a rich man's food, as it were. (Just last month, I recall seeing line-caught striper for $22/lb.) I reserve it for special occasions nowadays. In a way, I dread the idea of cheaper fish like mackeral being talked up, because it means the prices will jump with that; also because enough fishmongers don't seem to know how (or want?) to make sure they are only selling such fish in prime condition.

Finally, one of the things plaguing the fish marketing business is equivocation and even deceit: the fact that there is so much legitimate - and intentionally misleading - labelling of fish. That's something that must change if the business wants to grow.

[MakingSense]

Fashion has been the driver of many of these problems. The demand for fish has risen dramatically and with it, prices and overfishing to supply the demand. People want fish for various reason - health, it's chic, low-fat, low-cal, even some vegetarians will bend to include fish but not other flesh. Then we hear that people like certain fish because "it doesn't taste fishy" since they really don't like fish that much to begin with.
Aquaculture offers possibilities of easing overfishing and then some attack the entire concept, not just poorly managed seafood farming, which confuses consumers. More confusing press releases start flying about whatever chemical might or might not be found in this or that fish from this country but not that one. Journalists who know little about the subject write shallow misleading stories that make things worse.

Too many people are chasing too few of the fish that they have been led to believe are the only ones they can safely eat. Few consumers even know what fish are local to their own waters. How can fish from Hawaii served in New Jersey be "fresh"? It's days old. Virtually all fish has been frozen before it reaches consumers and good frozen fish is perfectly fine - better than old fish any day. Farmed salmon isn't even close to wild salmon but it can be a decent meal of a different sort and canned salmon makes great salmon cakes. So what if tilapia is bland?

I don't think the seafood business needs to grow. It's grown too big and too fast as it is. Many of the people involved have no idea any longer what's going on. Local fishmongers are selling fish from far away that they don't recognize and many consumers are confused about what they're buying. It's not "equivocation and deceit," it's lack of information. The prices are reflecting unnecessary shipping and spoilage in addition to artificial demand.

If local chefs and food writers and the national media began to place the same emphasis on local seafood that they do on other local sourcing, much of this pressure could possibly be eased in the same way it was created. There's a need for a great deal of education beyond just "buy fresh fish," and eat more of it.

[Karl S]

Well, there are many of us who do not like frozen fish that have been thawed - which is different than fish that is kept on ice. I wish it were otherwise, but previously frozen fish suffer in texture and succulence. Not everyone notices - but there are those of us who do, and we won't pay a premium for such fish.

And I won't pay anything for tilapia. Bring on the tofu, please. I don't care that the soybeans were grown in South Dakota....

And there is equivocation and deceit in the labelling of fish; I am not saying that's all there is going on - you also describe other factors that apply - but we shouldn't pretend all is right about the Wild West frontier that is the labelling of fish in this country. Fishmongers cannot even get basic facts right - just last month, I had a well-regarded fishmonger insist that his sea scallops were of course dry, and they weren't bleach white, but dang when I put them in the skillet did they exude so much water that I couldn't sear them; either his supplier lied to him, or he lied to me. I can't say either thrills me....

[MakingSense]

You should never buy fish that has been thawed. It should only be thawed immediately before cooking. I am guessing that you don't fish yourself. Those who do freeze their extra catch. Fish freezes very well and there isn't any problem is it's thawed properly. It's much preferable to the fish that's been shuttled from docks through the distribution system and finally to the consumer. You have no way of knowing how old fish is by the time you purchase it unless you live very near the seacoast and your fishmonger buys directly from the local fishermen or auctions.
BTW, you should be able to tell by the color of scallops whether they are dry or wet. The dry ones have a noticeable beige to tan color. If they're white, they've been soaked and you will be too if you pay a premium price. Even dry scallops will exude moisture during spawning season and I've never figured out how to second guess that.

[Karl S]

I have fished for myself, but only for small amounts to eat fresh. I have had uniformly poor experiences with fish that has been deep frozen and sold that way - even when I thaw it very gently. My guess is that the distribution system is not well controlled for handling, so I just won't buy previously frozen fish unless I am using it for purposes where its texture and succulence is not important (chowder, for example).

Re the scallops: they were not bleached, but beige - I had alluded to that. They just poured out water, though. It was gross. If it were a spawning issue, I would expect a good fishmonger with good suppliers (it was justifiable to expect it from this one) to tip me off, as I made very clear I needed dry scallops for searing.

[pikawicca]

If I go into a local (non-chain) restaurant at the height of summer and am served a salad with chunks of tasteless supermarket tomato in it, I will pass a gentle message along to the chef that I (and most of my friends) would be willing to pay more for locally-sourced food, when available. I don't really care so much about the complicated politics of eating local, local food simply tastes better.

[ctscorp]

That's a great example, pikawicca. (Does that name mean you're a pagan who eats dirt? Curious.) Here in Iowa, people were complaining all through August and into September that they were letting their tomatoes rot on the vine because they just had too many of them, while at the same time, a few of the local restaurants were serving nasty tomatoes in their salads. (Certainly neither of the ones I work at!) Why? There's no reason for that. If more attention were paid to the availability of the local, and if more people voiced their opinions about flavor and quality, I'd bet even in places as urban as Boston such small accomplishments as local tomatoes in the height of tomato season would be no-brainers.

[pikawicca]

"pika" from pikachu, a much-loved cartoon character of my son's when he was young; "wicca" -- my dog's name. (I think dirt-eater would have to be "picawicca.")

[the Maine course]

There are restaurants that not only survive but thrive utilizing the concept of local and organic. Fore Street in Portland, Maine is an example where a Chef and gardener got together and created menus based on year round crop planting, harvesting and green houses. Fish, dairy, meats and other indigenous items are sourced locally. Other staple items need to be brought in. This synergy between the grower and the user may seem alien to some, however, restaurants and farmers were working together long before the impersonal, totally unsustainable industrial farming created the food dilemma we now face. Once again empowering our local farmers and merchants is good for the community and good for business.
I can certainly taste the difference between a farmers market carrot and one thats wrapped in plastic and hasn't touched soil in months.

[raytamsgv]

If a restaurant is able to use locally-produced items, more power to them. I think it's a great idea, and the food will almost certainly taste better. I'm just not convinced that most restaurants would be able to survive as businesses. Better quality usually does not win against lower prices.

[Karl S]

Sure, because Portland until recently had much cheaper costs and more farms in reasonable proximity than Boston has in its ever-expanding morass of pavement. Which is great. But the costs and logistics in Boston are crippling in terms of lovovorism becoming a dominant restaurant concept; there are several farms that have significant production for prominent area restaurants, but no one promotes it as locovorist because it's too uneven to be consistent over the entire year, et cet.

[coll]

Here on Long Island, there is a lot of talk about greenhousing all year round, especially in regard to new neighbors to these farms not liking these "ugly" buildings going up! I already get beautiful hothouse tomatoes all year round at a couple of local high-end farm stands. Apparently farmers consider this the wave of the future, especially with transportation costs going so high.

[Karl S]

You got the reaction I'd expect if I had asked that question. Besides, not everyone is sold on locovorism. Boston area-restaurants have very high overhead without the kind of volume that NYC offers; hence, limited-niche restaurants have a very high failure rate unless they are located in places with much cheaper rents (that is, not in the center of the metro area). That's one reason vegetarian restaurants have become scarcer in the past decade in this parts. And why Italian-based restaurants are over-represented (because it's the lowest common denominator to encourage volume).

[raytamsgv]

It will not seriously change the restaurant business because it's too expensive or nearly impossible to run a restaurant that uses only locally sourced ingredients, even in a place such as San Francisco with its temperate weather. The whole concept is rather arbitrary (e.g. does "locally sourced" ingredients also mean locally sourced water and fertilizer for crops and livestock?).

Aside from the obvious problems with winter produce, here are some ingredients most places in the U.S. would have problems with: sugar, salt, chocolate, coffee, vanilla, wines, rice, etc.

While high-end restaurants may be able to find local suppliers, they can do so only because they charge so much for them. I personally like the idea of buying locally, but I wouldn't be able to afford to eat at such restaurants.

[normalheightsfoodie]

We live in San DIego, and many places are able to have local sources for produce, dut to our climate. I would think it would be difficlut in Mass. to offer fresh produce and the like in December and Jan.

[queencru]

I tend to agree with the chef. It's easy if you live in an area with a temperate climate that can grow yummy food throughout the year, but if you live in an area that's snowbound for 4+ months out of the year or in a place that's too hot to grow good fruits and veggies in the summer, that's just not feasible. We have one restaurant in my area that farms its own fruits and vegetables on an organic farm (or at least it used to), but it's large enough to have the resources to support the farm. That's not feasible for most restaurants, and many, if not most areas, do not have a whole lot of food growing in a 50-mile radius throughout the year.

[soupkitten]

i don't think the op was suggesting year round-- even if the restaurant sourced 50% of produce locally during the summer it would be very significant. meat, cheese, flour, etc are possible year round. it is tough and takes a lot of extra legwork and flexibility to source stuff locally and a lot of places *really* like everything (meat, cheese, bleach, tomatoes) to come off the same usfoods truck, and accountants can never seem to understand that a case of potatoes is *not* a case of potatoes in some instances when you have locally grown organic purple-fleshed fingerlings on one hand and mass-produced idaho russets on the other--"why do potatoes sometimes cost $21 and sometimes $54?"

i live in msp-- cold and wintry much of the year by anyone's reckoning-- and there are scads of restaurants at all price points who source locally and sustainably year round with meat and other staples and seasonally with produce. there is at least one place that goes all the way, serving the so-called "limited" keeper produce rather than fresh CA greens all winter long (and the food is fabulous), so don't tell me it can't be done-- i don't want to suggest that the boston chef is being lazy (don't know about your local food scene), but i don't think his rancor to the op was warranted, given that it's a pretty easy step to feature a few locally sourced items on a menu--particularly when your customers are demanding this and will pay a couple bucks more. send him to msp and we'll show him how it's done.

[StriperGuy]

Us northeasterners do not necessarily know that MSP is short for Minneapolis St. Paul (I had to google it). ;-) Just FYI, there is no way wheat can feasibly be grown commercially on the east coast in quantities sufficient for other then boutique grist mill owners to really make a go of it. So local flour or bread year round, no way. Furthermore, I'll bet that the few local farms that do raise cattle for meat probably supplement the cows feed with stuff trucked in from afar. There is just no way that any substantial beef farming, pork, or chicken farming could be done less than 100 miles from population centers on the east coast.

As I said in my earlier post if you tried to raise even 20% of the food for the east coast locally, they'd be bulldozing Framingham and large parts of Connecticut and New Jersey.

[soupkitten]

okay, so you can't do local milled bread flour, but the op was talking specifically about produce obtained from a local farmer's market. if it is at the market, it is available locally. if we are talking about a smallish restaurant, it doesn't require a factory farm to supply it with meat, either, it's about the chef getting a few-five hogs butchered a month, locally, and being able to use the whole animal at the restaurant. if the chef strives for high quality he's probably getting specialty cuts of meat, and "boutique" items locally already. as i say, it needn't be a huge hassle to get locally produced items-- then source your olive oil, flour, and whatever from afar, but if it's growing in your back yard there's not much excuse for not using it. customers do want local foods, and i'd suggest that if you can't adapt in the biz, you tend to get left behind pretty quickly.

[curiousbaker]

As someone who grew up in Framingham, I say go for it.

[gini]

Exclusively? Not really, and if they did you might be surprised at how limited the menu would look. As StriperGuy points out, many types of flours and grains as well as fats and spices just aren't available locally. Desserts would rely on maple and birch sugars for sweetening. Bread baskets? Not gonna happen.

That said, there are a growing number of mid-to-upper tiered restaurants in Boston sourcing many of their fish, game and produce (from May to November, at least) locally.

Take a look at:
Mamma Maria; The Blue Room; Henrietta's Table; Hamersley's Bistro; Rialto; Via Matta ;Radius; Craigie Street Bistrot; T.W. Food; Jasper White's Summer Shack; Harvest; Lumiere Restaurant; Blu @ The Sports Club/LA; Dave's Fresh Pasta; Rendezvous; ZA; Oleana; EVOO and others.

[basilandeggs]

I think I'm beginning to understand. It would be threatening to feel that your patrons were demanding that your restaurant follow the 100-mile diet 12 months a year. But I don't believe that's what people want.

As a trendy restaurant patron who supports a local farmers' market, is a shareholder in a CSA, and is trying to reduce our family's carbon footprint and all the other activities under the "sustainable" umbrella, I just want to know that our local restaurant is on our side, that by eating a meal there, we're continuing the effort, rather than counteracting it. We're easy to please, we suburban farmers' market PTA moms. Just note on the menu when something is local, and we'll order that.

[gini]

I'd suggest that you start researching which restaurants do use locally sourced products, then. There's many more in Boston than may meet the eye, especially this time of year. Good luck!

[StriperGuy]

Hate to say it, but I agree with the chef. In New England to think that you could source food for a restaurant completely locally (particularly November-March) is absurd.

Certainly in the summer, produce, fish, and some meats can be sourced in New England.

Nevermind that there are no significant sources of wheat, rice, grains in general, olive oil and cooking oils in general here in New England. We live in a global economy like it or not. Nevermind some local products are prohibitively expensive even when they are in season. I generally agree with your ranting chef friend, but at much lower volume.

If we tried to grow even 20% of the food consumed on the east coast within 50 miles of where it is consumed, they would be bulldozing suburbs for farmland.

[abowes]

But the OP was not suggesting to the chef/guest that restaurants *should* source *all* products locally... s/he was asking if this particular restaurant should let people know they're sourcing as much as possible locally whenever possible. I don't understand why the chef/guest would go off so!

I think in order to survive with commitment to local sourcing a) there needs to be sufficient clientele who will pay for the difference and b) the food needs to be worth eating, regardless of source (duh, but many in my area aren't discerning).

When I know a chef includes local sourcing as a goal, and his/her food is good enough that I recommend the place to friends, I definitely include the sourcing fact as a plus.

[Carty]

"people in our town would be more likely to patronize the restaurant if they knew that the chef/owner were sourcing his produce as much as possible from our local farmers' market"

there's a lot in this question. Would they be willing to pay more to support the potentially higher cost structure of local ingredients? Would they tolerate a menu potentially limited by ingredient availability? (one shudders to think of what such a menu might look like in March in New England)

Sounds like more of a (perhaps legitimate) marketing initiative than a reasonable constraint on how to run a restaurant. Pitch the hell out of the local ingredients you do use ...

[linz]

He is right in that restaurants can't survive by exclusively sourcing local food, and many items aren't available locally...

But in SF where I live now, most quality restaurants locally source their meat and most of their produce. Yes it's more expensive than buying your greens and berries from Canada, Mexico, Central America or California...but the food actually tastes like food and there is a consumer market for it. Here in Boston, not as much--why I moved to SF--but there are some places that are committed to locally sourcing as much of their food as possible. Oleana in Inman Square and EVOO in Somerville come to mind.

That said it is polarizing. Many people in the food industry are driven by the bottom line and keeping food cost down, and it definitely takes time and money to source locally.

[ctscorp]

I think the movement is political, but I've never seen anyone resist it -- if anything, I've seen people claim things were local that aren't (sometimes even couldn't possibly be). The restaurant I work in has local ingredients whenever possible, which we post on our menu. At just the right time in the summer, that includes 100% of the produce, although even then the oils, flours, etc. are not local. It absolutely is possible, even easy depending on where you are, to rely heavily on local markets and CSAs. I think your chef friend was just having a crabby day.