437834 Mon Sep 03 19:52:41 -0700 2007 44 41 Cookware 0 2907754 Jackp and I began our marriage with a swell set of Henkels knives and we are still using them. But occasionally over the last few years I have felt the need for a different shape or size of knife. I have added a few really, seriously, shamefully inexpensive knives to our collection, in addition to more of the good ones. Today I bought a 5" Cuisinart Santuko with a granton blade. It set me back all of $7. What a handy little thing this is. Even Jackp - a known knife-snob - used it happily while preparing dinner. It occurs to me that what matters most in knives is the sharpness of the blade and how it feels in your hand. As long as you can easily prepare food with them, does it really matter if they're the finest things on the market? But having said that, I do have to mention that when our nephew was here a couple of months ago with a gorgeous Shun knife, I was delighted with the feel in my hand.... Mon Sep 03 19:52:41 -0700 2007 12213 jillp 1 2907966 I've got what I think is a pretty spectacular collection of Henckels and Wustof knives, some of them actually modified for me by a knife maker. A couple of chef's knives, several boning, paring and utility knives...all excellent and expensive and wonderful knives. Almost as often as I use them, I use the set of four plastic handled, multi-colored paring knives from Henckels that I got on Amazon for $15 a couple of years ago. Any my new favorite knives in the kitchen are a paring knife and utility knife from Williams-Sonoma that were $3 and $9 respectively on sale...they're wood handled, stamped, super light and wicked sharp. I love them. My wife loves her Calphalon Contemporary Santuko knife, too. Bottom line, cost doesn't matter if you don't like how it feels and how it cuts, you won't use it. Mon Sep 03 22:16:15 -0700 2007 2907754 80141 ccbweb 2 3268379 We are on our second set of Henckels paring knives... we put them in the dishwasher, cut on plates and other awful things we would never do with the "good" knives. Occassionally they get passed through the knife sharpener, and when they get too too bad (takes years), we get new ones! Sun Jan 06 20:41:06 -0800 2008 2907966 106056 firecooked 1 2908054 I actually prefer cheap knives...you don't worry about them and if something happens to one you don't feel bad. As you guys mentioned, if the blade is sharp they work fine. The only thing I miss about Wustof or Henckel knives is the weight for some uses. OTOH, a light knife is easier to use and can be less fatiguing. Tue Sep 04 00:18:26 -0700 2007 2907754 27275 ML8000 1 2908457 One problem is that the cheap metal will not hold up as well and although you may sharpen it, it will lose the edge much faster than a harder metal. Agreed that as long as it's sharp you can cut very well but it's a pain to have to keep sharpening. I gave my kids a lot of my old inexpensive knives. I tried to put a 15 degree edge on a thin paring knife but it would just chip. Subsequently a 25 degree edge was better suited to the metal. Tue Sep 04 07:29:57 -0700 2007 2907754 89493 scubadoo97 1 2923700 check out the knives your butcher uses and I doubt you will find nary a wushof, shun or global among them. most likely you will see relatively inexpensive forschners and dexter russells. why? because they cut better than the more expensive knives most of the time. you might pay around $80-$100 for a shun chef's knife, when for that kind of money you could get a slicer and a chef's knife and maybe a santoku from forschner and have knives that will last a very long time and will stay very sharp Sat Sep 08 22:24:31 -0700 2007 2907754 74192 chuckl 2 3232108 Butcher shops don't use Shuns or Globals, but it's got nothing to do with quality and everything to do with price. And to be honest, a really great knife is overkill for meat cutting. You need a good edge, but affordability has the edge (no pun intended) over ultimate sharpness and edge retention. And most butchershops, unless they're a one or two person shop, will probably have employees- there's a "company car syndrome" associated with good knives. No one treats the company car like their own car and the help can't be expected to take care of a Japanese knife with a hardness of 65 Rockwell. Plus, really spendy knives have a habit of following the help home... I've usually been the primary meat cutter in the kitchens I've run. I will use some cheapos but it's great to have quality knives. That said, you don't need to spend a ton to get decent knives. I highly recomment the Fibrox line to anyone needing good steel at a bargain price. Sun Dec 23 03:36:24 -0800 2007 2923700 120359 Beowulf 3 3236095 Where do you get them? Thanks Tue Dec 25 12:08:14 -0800 2007 3232108 72386 cocolou 4 3236270 You can purchase them at most restaurant supply stores, and many places on the web. I love my Forschner paring knives. http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=13 http://www.cutlery.com/forschner.shtml Tue Dec 25 15:12:47 -0800 2007 3236095 22220 Kelli2006 5 3268263 I bought one for my baby brother for Christmas on amazon; the had the best price I saw. Sun Jan 06 19:49:39 -0800 2008 3236270 67706 WCchopper 1 2923756 While expensive knives are generally good, good knives need not be expensive. My good expensive knives include Dicks, Sabatiers, and Japanese. My equally good but inexpensive knives include Brazilian Tramontinas,.no-name Japanese, KitchenAid santoku, a huge LamsonSharp, a cleaver from China... Sat Sep 08 23:34:55 -0700 2007 2907754 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 2925309 I just discovered a cheapo knife I've had for years is a Tramontina. Now I think I would seek it out specifically. I bought it well over 10 years ago as an all-purpose knife. For a while it may have been the only one I had. Still use it regularly even though I now have a few Wusthofs. It's one of those silly serrated eversharp type of things, but it does some things well. Sun Sep 09 18:15:56 -0700 2007 2923756 40162 CrazyOne 3 3229495 By the way, their stainless cookware is wonderful! I honestly believe, that if you make sure that your knifes are sharp and they feel good in your hand, that's all that matters! Fri Dec 21 15:59:51 -0800 2007 2925309 115579 Mother of four 3 3293020 I bought a set of Henkels eversharp knives for a bargain and I'm really happy with them for smaller knifework. Add a big sharp chef's knife for when I really want to chop instead of saw, and that's all I need. Mon Jan 14 07:21:07 -0800 2008 2925309 102571 mordacity 1 2923774 My favorite knife is a Kiwi brand, made in Thailand, 8 inch I bought for five bucks at an A Chau supermarket in Orange County. It is light, super sharp and sharpens easily. It might not last forever, but I can always replace it. Sun Sep 09 00:01:41 -0700 2007 2907754 69496 septocaine_queen 2 2927935 I can't say enough about the Kiwis. I've had mine for a few years, and they are sharp, sharp, sharp with no more than steeling (which I do religiously with every knife). One of the Kiwis did get dinged from dropping, but I was able to correct it with a whetstone. They won't make my cookware-obsessed friends swoon, but they are the go-to knives in my kitchen. And for 5 bucks? Great gift! Mon Sep 10 14:11:44 -0700 2007 2923774 49525 cayjohan 2 3268172 Gotta chime in here - love my Kiwi also - paid $3.50 for a vegetable cleaver many years ago and it is a great knife - doesn't hold an edge like my Wusthoff but for the price ya gotta love it! Sun Jan 06 19:09:28 -0800 2008 2923774 22477 jbyoga 1 2927305 Bittman in the NY Times says professional chefs generally use inexpensive knives (he specifically mentions Dexter Russell); he recommends restaurant supply stores. Mon Sep 10 11:40:57 -0700 2007 2907754 55316 mpalmer6c 2 2927818 They use inexpensive pans as well. Restaurants will generally not spend a lot on pans and knives. These are used, abused and replaced. Many chefs have their own knives that they use in lieu of the general ones used in the restaurant. Mon Sep 10 13:39:54 -0700 2007 2927305 89493 scubadoo97 3 2942730 Yeah, Bittman (for his article) priced three sauce in various sizes for $30 total. Fri Sep 14 15:19:21 -0700 2007 2927818 55316 mpalmer6c 4 3221093 Our house Knives are Dexter Russel 10",these are MUCH improved over 10 years ago--still I prefer a Forschner as a pro workhorse. While the Knives are typical of a commercial kitchen,so is the Norton triple stone..a great item with a 12" Arkansas fine stone and 2 carburundum stones in a holder. Those units cost about $200. With it...you can make a $30 Forshner cut better than the typical home cook's $100 knife....if you know how to really use it. In my job...I might be doing veggies by the case. A few weeks ago my day was split and pan up 300 cornish game hens,trim/bone 60lb of rock cod and dice up 30lb of onions. A delicate 6" Santuko would not suffice. Meanwhile...we have as many as 30 people in and out of the kitchen..temps..student part timers....I'd be afraid a flashy $150 Global 10" would just walk off. Someone walked off with my 10" Forschner from home,I had it 25 years..I'm getting another. I'll get the green handle version so it won't get mixed up with all the Dexters at work. I got a Kershaw 7" on order-cause it was on sale and is a laminated steel with the core the steel used in Shun + Global. It may mostly be my herb mincer at work. I think I can put a freaky sharp edge on it. We cook on a pretty big scale. Our pans are not fancy...but are not cheap because they hold 5-30 gallons. We use a tilt skillet and several sized steam kettles a lot. In a Restaurant or institurtional kitchen...there's so much speed and volume that the hardware does not always get TLC Wed Dec 19 01:32:32 -0800 2007 2942730 150994 rerem 1 3223437 As silly as it might sound, the forged vanadium steel knives by Ikea actually aren't bad. I bought the smaller 11" chef's knife on a whim for $15 to test it out, and it is able to take an edge well assuming you use a ceramic sharpening steel and stone. Performance is almost similar to the Global vanadium steel knives. The Ikea handle/tang is more comfortable to hold and has more heft than the stamped global knives. Note: I'm not talking about the super cheap trash Ikea knives (~$5-10) that are stamped and flimsy and often come with a small knife block. Wed Dec 19 16:16:17 -0800 2007 2907754 11745 Cary 1 3224746 I see quite a few posts for the dexters. My main chef's knife is the white handled Dexter. Great balance, takes an edge well, and easy to clean. My other knives include a Dexter Chinese cleaver and Asian vegetable knife. Not as fun/cool as the Shuns of the world, but more than adequate. I would love to get a sset of good carbon steel Sabatiers, but in the meantime, my Dexters are just fine. Just a note, though, they also make a set of forged knives. I checked them out at a restaurant supply shop - I liked them a lot. Fantastic balance. Thu Dec 20 06:55:04 -0800 2007 2907754 18069 Westy 1 3224787 I have a couple of Victorinox pairing knives and a chef knife. I love them! I've owned lots of cheap knives, but these are the ones that keep on cutting. Heck I've carved up entire butternut squashes with one of their pairing knives. Thu Dec 20 07:12:07 -0800 2007 2907754 94635 adventuresinbaking 2 3229906 I just bought 4 Forschnerr paring knives to replace a few that I have had for 12+ years. They will tolerate amazing abuse, sharpen up on a steel like a razor in a few seconds, and only cost peanuts. I love my forged chef knives, but Forschnerr makes a amazing knife, plus they aren't made in China. I love them. Fri Dec 21 19:58:41 -0800 2007 3224787 22220 Kelli2006 1 3224876 Jfood is a big fan of Forschner/Victorionix knives. His 10" Chef's is 29 years old this month. The trick he has discovered over the last few months is the "steel". Every time he washes and returns the knife to the knife drawer he uses the steel twice on each side. The blade stays sharper much longer. Thu Dec 20 07:35:02 -0800 2007 2907754 11290 jfood 2 3227777 My 10" Forschner vanished somehow...I got it about 20 years ago and it was a great knife and I worked in kitchens where that knife was in my hand much of the shift. While heavier forged knives have some points...for professional cooks a stamped 3/4 tang is just quicker and won't wear out your hands. I'm very addicted to using a whetstone a lot. Most kitchens I worked in have the Norton with the 3 12" stones,the key one being the fine India Stone. Dexter-Russel has improved...very common as the "house" knives in commercial kitchens. The older ones would never get very sharp. Where I work now-I sharpened up all the Dexters and was surprised. They can't get as sharp as a Forschner but were way better than the Dexters of a few years ago. The Forschner and Dexter chef knives are about the same price now,however,so I'd take the Forschner. Anyone have experiance with the Mundial that's in that price range? I used a 12" Forschner slicer yesterday as a Sashimi knife. Worked so good I may reshape it. It was a yardsale bargain but at home-I don't do big roasts-hams for just myself,so it had mostly gone unused.. I DO love Sashimi.. I may cut and regrind the tip and turn it into a Yoganami type sushi knife. Cuts paper thin salmon slices. Fri Dec 21 06:11:12 -0800 2007 3224876 150994 rerem 3 3253653 TT is a knife snob so uses mainly Wusthof but does have a MAC 8" chef's knife. TT Wed Jan 02 10:56:31 -0800 2008 3227777 19247 TexasToast 1 3225728 I don't believe in cheap knives. To me, it sounds like poor quality. Now, good knives do not have to be expensive, though. French Chefs use low carbon steel knives that are close to straight iron. They can be easily sharpened with a whet stone. They should not be washed, only cleaned with a paper towel, then rubbed with Borax to prevent scaling. They will last you a lifetime. For such knives, I suggest Laguiole (laguiole.com) Thu Dec 20 11:09:44 -0800 2007 2907754 72386 cocolou 2 3227797 I cooked at kitchens years back where there were old style Carbon Steel knives...and I don't miss them. SOME could get sharp.....for an hour or two. Kind of inspired me to go buy a knife I LIKED...could get sharper and keep sharp. If you only need it for 5-10 min a day and like fussing with it...a Carbon-steel QUALITY knife can be fine. However....There's so many fine STAINLESS knives now that don't cost more and are overall-more durable...and sharper too,that I just can't see buying a Carbon-steel. Fri Dec 21 06:21:28 -0800 2007 3225728 150994 rerem 3 3233252 I still have two of them.. Somehow I just can't seem to give them up! To cocolou! Sun Dec 23 16:24:14 -0800 2007 3227797 115579 Mother of four 4 3236100 Mother of Four, take good care of them as they are hard to find. The closest would be the Laguiole ones. Of course, using one of these electric sharpening thingies is the worse you can do to your knives. The best is to invest into a sharpening stone and use natural oil. Tue Dec 25 12:11:56 -0800 2007 3233252 72386 cocolou 1 3234121 My chef's knife is a $15.00, white plastic-handled Russel from our restaurant supply store which I bought when the handle on my Henckels broke. So far, the $15.00 knife has held up about three times longer than the Henckels, still holds a nice edge, and shows no signs of falling apart. I have a Wusthof Santoku that I love for chopping onions, but not much else. Mon Dec 24 06:32:35 -0800 2007 2907754 48876 mamaciita 2 3234127 I bought my Henckel's knives in Germany, and paid the equivalent of $39 for my 8 inch chef's knife. When I took a knife class recently, the instructor looked over all the sets of expensive knives, held up mine and said, "This is a great basic knife. Just keep it sharp." He's also a big fan of ceramic knives, something he's come to since he trained at CIA. Essentially, you need a chef's knife, a paring knife, and a bread knife, unless you do speciality cooking. It's silly to spend big money on a bread knife since they can't be sharpened, and paring knives are utility players. Mon Dec 24 06:38:12 -0800 2007 3234121 83766 brendastarlet 2 3234149 I totally agree. My white bladed dexter is not flasy, lacks the impeccable poise of a great knife, but has held up very well day and day out. Holds a nice edge as well. Love it. Mon Dec 24 06:47:39 -0800 2007 3234121 18069 Westy 1 3239330 My current favourites are a $40 CCK carbon steel vegetable cleaver - wicked sharp, with a thin, thin blade - and a $26 carbon steel no name French chef's knife. They outperform pretty much everything else I own and have become my go-to knives. Thu Dec 27 06:31:16 -0800 2007 2907754 16537 andreas 2 3253263 Do you happen to know where I can buy this type of CCK cleaver for such a reasonable price, either in person in the Los Angeles area or online? [Specifically, I'm looking for a 1101 or 1301 model.] Wed Jan 02 09:05:41 -0800 2008 3239330 154068 cantaloupe 3 3256241 I don't unfortunately. I live in Toronto and here you can get them in most Chinese kitchen supply stores. Thu Jan 03 06:22:46 -0800 2008 3253263 16537 andreas 4 3362525 Action Sales (http://actionsales.com/) has informed me by email that they sell both the 1100 and 1300 series of CCK knives. The prices quoted to me were $44 for the 1101 and $27 for the 1301 knives. Note: I haven't bought one yet, because I haven't yet had a chance to visit their showroom. Sun Feb 03 22:11:06 -0800 2008 3256241 154068 cantaloupe 5 3362587 Action Sales is great! And they have good deals on knives in general - I've gotten some Mundials for pretty cheap there. In case anyone's looking for a source that will do mail order, this thread mentions a place in SF that might, though the thread is a couple of years old: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/693545/post/693545/ Sun Feb 03 23:38:00 -0800 2008 3362525 59830 will47 1 3262485 A knife is as good as it cuts. I've seen tons of "chef's" who have their "own" knives, that can't cut hot butter. Spend as much as you like, but it's about the edge maintenance, not about the price. It's about the service of the knives, not about the knives. If you're a "pro" and producing volume, the last thing you have time to do or want to do, is rub a knife on a stone.I sharpen knives for pros all day, everyday, and I can tell you, when they get a taste of my service, they never go back to the stone age. Fri Jan 04 17:42:34 -0800 2008 2907754 154537 cookman 2 3268063 The 'stone age'? I'm curious- how do you sharpen? Paper wheel? Belt sander? Tormek grinder? I've used a professional sharpener for the kitchen's "disposable" knives but wouldn't trust them with my laminates. I use a variety of sharpening methods but for my Japanese knives it's nothing but waterstones. Sun Jan 06 18:26:27 -0800 2008 3262485 120359 Beowulf 3 3283232 professional sharpener? the only thing "professional" about the sharpener is the professional doing the sharpening. It's all about the hands, the eye for the shape and the amount of stock removal, and about the hand eye coordination to achieve the proper angle and sharpness. We use aluminum oxide vitrified bonded 36" wheels to shape, and a variety of different grit polishing wheels and fine grit honing stones, to achieve ultimate sharpness. Thu Jan 10 17:50:38 -0800 2008 3268063 154537 cookman 1 3267419 I own a small Cuisinart Santoku and i love it. Sun Jan 06 14:34:56 -0800 2008 2907754 153184 im_nomad 1 3304985 See http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/kitchen/cookware-bakeware-cutlery/kitchen-knives/kitchen-knives-1105/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=knives among other sites that deal with knives. IMO sharpening is very important and should be done properly. Thu Jan 17 09:56:34 -0800 2008 2907754 72386 cocolou