Seeking Advice ~ First time trip to Sonoma/Napa
We are trying to organize an extended weekend reunion consisting of three couples, we'd like to go approximately mid-June and we would like to explore Sonoma/Napa County but none of us have been there so we are looking for some [lots of] advice. I've searched the CH database and already have noted some restaurant recommendations.
1. Is there a new up and coming area other than Napa/Sonoma to explore? What is the difference between Napa and Sonoma? Quiet vs. busy...casual vs. upscale... Is it practical to go between the two for a dinner?
2. We would like to stay somewhere that is a spa/resort so we can maybe work off some of the calories we plan to consume and ideally we'd be in a spot to take advantage of the best restaurants in Chowhouders' opinion in one or both counties.
3. One member of the group is allergic to cigarette smoke...is there any smoking in restaurants these days in California?
4. What is everyone's top fave restaurants ~ not necessarily famous ~ great food, great atmosphere and great service? We don't mind going off the beaten track for the experience and have not desire to go to French Laundry.
Hmm..that is all I can think of at the moment but hopefully that will get things started. Thank you for any advice offered. I've posted for previous trips to other locations and we've always ended up finding a gem of a restaurant each time thanks to advice from Chowhound.
IslandGirl
Feb 17, 2006 01:29PM
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Hi Island Girl. Unfortunately Chowhound doesn't do lodging so that part of your query is off topic. But all of the rest of your request is very much ON topic for this message board and we are sure that the knowledgeable SF hounds will have some great dining recommendations for you.
Have a great trip to the Wine Country.
Ps. There is NO smoking inside any restaurant in California, (open air patios are an exception) to the best of our recollection.
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Be sure to do a search for both Napa and Sonoma on the chowhound.com homepage. Also do a searches for St. Helena, Yountville and Healdsburg.
As you might imagine, the subject you are asking about gets raised on this board very, very often. You should be able to access many of the dozens and dozens of posts that have been made on this board about this topic over the past 6-12 months.
I would also suggest checking out the winery database at the website of the SF Chronicle (www.sfgate.com). You will find a lot of helpful info there as well.
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1. My favorite spot in the wine country is Healdsburg. Lots of great restaurants and other food outlets (ice cream, bakery, brewpub, etc.), right in the center of some of the best wine areas, really nice little town that is developing like crazy. In general, I think Sonoma County is a little more relaxed and casual than Napa, especially in the wine tasting rooms, though there are plenty of exceptions either way. There have been some heated discussions on those differences in the past (I recall one thread with some good posts by Melanie Wong), if you have the patience you may be able to find them. It is possible to go between the two for dinner. There are several mountainous roads that cut through, as well as a large highway that connects the southern ends of the two counties. I've done it before. However, if you want to see both I would suggest making a day trip with lunch to the opposite valley instead of dinner. Driving back is a drag after a good meal and lots of wine, and I say that as a sportscar driver who loves mountain roads.
2. No specific recs, but again I would suggest somewhere near Healdsburg.
3. There is no smoking allowed in restaurants, nor bars for that matter. I think it's allowed in outdoor seating areas, but even then it's pretty uncommon to see anyone smoking. You should not have to ever worry about this.
4. It's actually been a while since I've done the rounds of the fine dining restaurants in wine country. Places I think you should investigate are: Ravenous, Barndiva, Willi's Raw Bar, Cyrus, Dry Creek Kitchen, Syrah, all near Healdsburg. Also in Sonoma County but in the Sonoma Valley area are La Salette, Cafe La Haye, and "the girl and the fig." In Napa, I really love Bistro Jeanty. Melanie just posted some reports on Napa restaurants that has a lot of up-to-date info.
-Nick
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1. Is there a new up and coming area other than Napa/Sonoma to explore? What is the difference between Napa and Sonoma? Quiet vs. busy...casual vs. upscale... Is it practical to go between the two for a dinner?
My own personal preference if we are talking cities, then it is the city of Sonoma. Most of the shops and restaurants can be walked to. It is charming and more laid back than Napa.
I just can't warm up to the city of Napa. It just seems shabby to me and I never want to spend much time there.
However, the surrounding areas are very nice in both cases. If I had a town to pick in Napa county it would probably be Healdsburg which is lovely and has some good eats.
In Sonoma, a little heralded town is Petaluma which has consistantly good restaurants and is very cute. However, I wouldn't put it on my first visit.
2. We would like to stay somewhere that is a spa/resort so we can maybe work off some of the calories we plan to consume and ideally we'd be in a spot to take advantage of the best restaurants in Chowhouders' opinion in one or both counties.
Well, working withing the Chowhound guidelines, Auberge du Soleil, always gets high marks from freinds for the accomodations and even if you don't stay there it is a must stop at sunset for drinks, just beautiful. It recently was getting some good reviews for food, but the problem is there are better restaurants for less money surrounding it.
The Caneros Inn is another place that I've only had breakfast at (link below). The best feature is that it sits smack dab in the middle of Napa/Sonoma so it is an easy drive to either destination and they have a private restaurant that only guests can eat at.
Again, never stayed at either, there are better and more appropriate sites, but in the context of food, I thought I'd mention them ... especially those drinks at Auberge ... nice wine list.
4. What is everyone's top fave restaurants ~ not necessarily famous ~ great food, great atmosphere and great service? We don't mind going off the beaten track for the experience and have not desire to go to French Laundry.
Since I'm more partial to Sonoma ...
- The General's Daughter - New chef in August, restaurant is charming as all get out. The chef recently spent some time with Gary Danko, and although Danko isn't my favorite, I'd love to get back to The General's Daughter to see if there was any influence.
- La Salette is Californian-Portugese. Great place for breakfast crepes and baked goods straight from their roaring wood-fired oven. Love the rice pudding ... hot from the oven and fragrent with cinnamon
- the girl and the fig - nice cheese plate and brunch. I like the place, some things are exceptional but others, while good, didn't wow me.
- for shops - the cheesemaker's daughter, Sonoma Market, uh ... the wine store near La Salette. There's a little Saturday farmers market near girl and the fig on Saturdays. No big deal, but a chance to catch the locals in their native habitat and some of the farmers supplying the restaurants.
Sonoma Market is just great for picnic supplies ... amazing ... amazing prepared foods, almost all the the bakeries worthwhile have some of their baked goods here, nice selection of wines from local wineries at good prices, amazing 70 item olive bar.
The Cheesemakers daughter is really cute with a well-thought out selection of cheeses and tasting. Ditty Vella, daughter of the Vella cheesemakers runs the shop.
All of this stuff in Sonoma is in a small area, so it makes for pleasant strolling or short drives. Check out the wild chickens running around in the Sonoma town square. I love Sonoma.
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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One item to point out in rworange's response to question #1, is that Healdsburg is in Sonoma county and not Napa county. I didn't want you to get confused in your planning (b/c it can be confusing if you don't know the area well!).
On that note, I like the Healdsburg area better than the Napa Valley. The winieries, on the whole, are smaller and more accessible. They aren't as crowded as Napa so there is one-on-one time to talk to the people working at the wineries and get more info on the wine. Also, at the majority of places, you don't have to pay for tastings like you now have to do in Napa. If you stay in Healdsburg, you can explore the Dry Creek Valley (West Dry Creek and Dry Creek Roads) area where there are many small wineries.
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We went to La Toque about 2 years ago and loved it. It's one of the best meal we've ever had.
Link: http://www.latoque.com/
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Stay away from Napa - it's got all the hype, all the tourists and all the tasting fees. My pick would be to hit Healdsburg, in Sonoma County. Tons of great wineries, and some damn good eating too. My fav is Ravenous. Their burger (I know, I know, burger in wine country?) is out of this world. Everything we've had has been great. Good drink options too.
If you're set on Napa Valley, avoid Napa itself. Stick to Calistoga or Yountville. Good food and lodging in both.
Link: http://www.wdcv.com/eventsmain.asp
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Here's a link to my post on the burger at Ravenous from September. It's still wonderful, but I found myself thinking that I like the one at Zin (and especially the great fries) down the street a bit more. Note that Zin only has the burger at lunch time.
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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I find "stay away from Napa" a funny comment. I could list at least two dozen little family wineries in Napa Valley, most of whom don't charge a tasting fee, who make incrediable wines, well crafted, no appointment required, many with few tourists and then only those that have been directed there by someone in the know. If you're there during the week getting around is easy.
Calistoga and north of there have some wonderful little wineries, Bennett Lane, Calistoga Cellars, Summers, Vincent Arroy. Seldom will you find these busy. August Briggs on the Silverado Trail makes outstanding wines, no fee and they are almost always happy to give you a barrel tasting.
So, nothing wrong with the Napa Valley at all if you do a little research and stay away from the giant wine companies like Mondavi and Beringer.
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You posted: "I could list at least two dozen little family wineries in Napa Valley, most of whom don't charge a tasting fee, who make incrediable wines, well crafted, no appointment required, many with few tourists and then only those that have been directed there by someone in the know."
So how about 15-20 or so of those you like?
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Well, let's see. Calistoga Cellars, August Briggs, Bremer Family, Chase, Havens, Augar-Martucci, Elyse, Bell, Laird Family, Paoletti, Van der Hayden. Many that do charge a fee refund that with a purchase. Don't remember if Bennett Lane has a fee, know I've never paid there. Vincent Arroyo doesn't.
There's a few off the top of my head. There are now, I' believe, almost 400 wineries in the Napa Valley. Many are small and some you do have to call. Most of the those have no fee, are happy to see you and even happier if you buy.
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obviously, poster, cookin christina hasn't been to napa (the city) for awhile---forget the advice not to go there---she is completely wrong. napa has all kinds of upscale lodging---and another one opening out by the airport by the time you get here. the restaurants are terrific and are hopping with business, garnering accolades from the public and the critics. don't miss downtown.
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Hi, sorry to offend.
We've spent an obscene amount of time in Napa, Sonoma, and the Santa Cruz wine regions. We spend WAY too much of our discretionary income on wine. I've worked in the wine industry...
I DON'T mean to state that there's nothing worthwhile in Napa. There is. There is GREAT wine in Napa (try cabs from Heitz, Groth, Chateau Montelena -okay, I'm stretching with a Calistoga winery- and see if you can find a bottle of Elan, there are great options in Napa). What I meant was that Napa is too often described as the de facto standard. And almost everytime we're there we either have to deal with people who should not be driving or we are treated like crap by someone behind the tasting bar because we are young, or have the person behind the bar who knows nothing other than what's on the label. If we're really picky about where we go, we have a GREAT EXPERIENCE, but it's not guaranteed if you are trying new wineries (which we try to do regularly). We ALWAYS buy at least a bottle if it's not swill, and routinely walk away with a case if it's decent. The downtown Napa scene has gotten better, this is true.
But if you're there for just a short while like a weekend and going to the wine country is not a regular activity, why deal with the crowds? Why deal with iffy service at restaurants (I've never had exceptional service in downtown Napa, but granted there are other towns that also get that same comment from me). Why deal with sometimes pretentious servers at the wineries? Why not head to somewhere that has wine just as good (in some cases) and nearly as good (in other cases) and just as bad (Napa has bad wine too, you know) BUT has good food, little to no crowds (except for special events like Passport weekends) and you can amble around at your pace instead of having to elbow for room at the tasting bar?
That's all I meant. Didn't mean to diss Napa. We were these this weekend, and had a good time (only hit places we know). That said, we're hitting Healdsburg shortly and then again for Dry Creek Passport, and I have to admit that I'm a little more excited about those trips.
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Gosh, I'm glad but a little surprised to read how many Chowhounds prefer Sonoma county to Napa county. I'm a long time Sonoma county resident, so freely admit to being prejudiced in favor of Sonoma county. I agree that the Healdsburg area is a great food and wine area, and will add a plug for a visit to Ferrari-Carano winery if only to stroll through the garden. I have always loved Manzanita restaurant in Healdsburg. I heard that they are recently under new management, but that the recipes have stayed just the same.
However, since I live in the west part of the county (WAY west actually, in Monte Rio) I wanted to throw a few west county places into the mix. Farmhouse Inn, in Forestville on River Road, may just be my favorite restaurant (it's always hard for me to say I have a favorite restaurant, kind of like saying I have a favorite child). The setting is gorgeous and refined, yet maintains a sense of the rural location. The service is faultless, friendly yet not too casual. But the food is the star. One of their well-known specialities is rabbit done three ways. My husband ordered that last time we were there, and loved it. Another stand-out was the beet salad. I know beet salad is kind of a cliche, but it was the best I'd ever had! On the extreme other end of the scale, right down the street from me in Monte Rio, on Highway 116, is the Baby Blue Cafe, which is a simple coffee shop, but it's the best coffee shop I've ever tried! Tasty breakfasts, perfect hash browns, fresh squeezed orange juice, and the juiciest tastiest coffee shop burgers ever. Their onion rings are just right - the crispy outside shatters as you bite into the tender onion inside. There are lots of other places I'd recommend, but thought I'd put in a word for a couple of somewhat lesser known places.
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Here's a link to the first mention I've seen of Manzanita under the new chef and management.
Link: http://chowhound.com/california/board...
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Hello, the opinions seem to heavily favor Sonoma County, and the two towns cited the most,Sonoma and Healdsburg, are well located if you choose to go over to Napa valley. In particular, there's a beautiful drive on a good road through the Alexander Valley that connects Healdsburg with the northern(Calistoga ) end of Napa valley. My wife and I spend more time in Healdsburg than anywhere else in either county, with Sonoma second, the main reasons, economy, traffic, overall environment. We've enjoyed every eatery we've tried from the numerous places cited by the other posters.
However, if the six of you are there to wine and dine,your tastes are what's most relevant. The Napa valley attracted the most international attention for its wines, and consequently higher prices, at an earlier time.If your people really favor Cabernet sauvignon or chardonnay, it's easier to find multiple sources without long treks in Napa valley. One of the state's best methode champagnoise sparkling wines, Schromsberg,is also a Napa valley wine. Monty makes an excellent point and has good info in re. to wineries. I think the prestige and cost of some of these wines have a correlation to the relatively higher number of French influenced fine dining spots in the Napa valley (Yountville, St. Helena, Rutherford all have highly regarded places of this genre). If that approach to food attracts you, definitely try some of the places on the Napa valley side.
In Sonoma county the wine regions are more diverse as are the wines. Healdsburg has the advantage of being in or adjacent to three of the best, Dry Creek, Alexander Valley, and Russian River. If your folk like zinfandel and pinot noir, Sonoma Co. has the advantage,not that it lacks excellent cabs and chardonnays,nor are great zins hard to find on the Napa side. If you do cross over from Healdsburg to the Calistoga side, you'll find it generally less congested in Napa valley on its northern end (St. Helena--Calistoga).If you just want a quick casual lunch outside on a summer day--you are going at the highest part of the high season--there's an updated old fashioned drive-in style place right on the highway in St.Helena called Taylor's Refresher, which makes Cal-gourmet versions of drive-in/comfort standbys.
Since you're not from this area, it might help you to know that the two counties have some of the highest rates of car vs. bicyclist collisions in the state, because of driver impairment, the countryside's compatibility for cycling, and the numerous places for gourmet picnic supplies. There are many places to rent bicycles, which is another way to burn off the calories. enjoy
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I have never seen anyone post anything about Breakaway Cafe in Sonoma - and it deserves mention. It is a very casual family-style restaurant serving brakfast lunch and dinner and with a full bar. The breakfasts/brunch are legendary - and they are always packed. Dinner is remarkably good and they have a few decent wines. The chef puts together interesting combinations with fresh ingredients - we have never been disappointed and frequently very impressed. Every bit as good as Cafe La Haye - oh, and did I mention for half the price???
It is on Highway 12 on the way up towards Glen Ellen on the left - in a nondescript shopping center.
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Wow, this board is fantastic for information. Thank you to everyone for all of your advice and I have printed everything off just to make sure I don't miss any of the restaurants recommended. I was worried this would be a tired topic as I'm sure it is often requested information but your enthusiasm and support for the area really makes me look forward to our trip. I'll have to take notes and post a review of our trip when we get back. Thanks again.
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Sooo much to do and see. Depends on what you're most interested in. No smoking in any public places in California so that answers that question.
Check out Cindy's Backstreet Cafe in Headlsburg, CA. Also the Foothill Cafe in Napa. Both off the beat and path but fantastic food especially the later. Many Spa's to choose from paticularly in Calistoga. Really depends on your budget. Also highly reccomend the wine tour at Del Dotto Winery. Great barrell tasting tour. Not to worry about the distance between Napa/Sonoma just a few miles. Everything is accessible by car.
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>Cindy's Backstreet Cafe in Headlsburg
How about a bit more on that? I can't find it on Google.
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It is in St. Helena.
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A partial answer to question 1. Yes, there are up and coming places besides Sonapanoma. These would include the Central Coast region: Santa Barbara county (see Sideways), Edna Valley and Paso Robles area; the Sierra foothills; Anderson Valley (northwest of Healdsburg); and, perhaps, the rest of Mendocino county including Redwood Valley. These are otherwise off topic for this board and could be pursued with a query on the general California board.
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1. As you can tell, there is a bit of rivalry going on between Napa and Sonoma. I find it silly, really. Both are excellent and frankly, Sonoma seems much bigger (especially given the coast and such - it's really beautiful), but there are GREAT wines in both regions. If you are there to dedicate your time purely to wine, I would go for Napa - seems like a smaller area to navigate and you can have some lovely wines within a few miles of eachother. If you have a lot of down time for a nice drive, Sonoma is gorgeous - especially through Sepastapol to the coast - Spring couldn't be a better time of year! Both areas are tourist heavy, so you can be fairly casual in either location.
2. My favorite place to stay in Napa, hands down, is "Cottages of Napa Valley." No restaurant onsite, however, they have wine and cheese Friday/Saturday and a FULL basket of Bouchon for you every morning. It's not a traditional hotel - little individual cottages with extra touches. I've already been there 2x in 2007 and going again at the end of March.
3. Hardly anyone smokes in California anymore. All bars and restaurants are smoke free.
4. My favorite restaurant in Napa right now is Redd. I love it. I would also try Ad Hoc in Yountville - I have heard incredible things. Cook in St. Helena is easy and pretty good. I didn't like Etoile much (Chandon's restaurant). It depends on your budget and what you like! (BTW - I had a bad experience at Cindy's. But her Go Fish (at least I think its hers) is supposed to be divine).
BTW - One of my favorite places to taste in Napa is Spring Mountain. Gotta make a reservation for Pride Mountain Winery. Beautiful drive up and one of the BEST picnic areas in all of Napa.
Edited to add, Silver Oak is now tasting out of a trailer. They are renovating their tasting room. The environment is vile and for $20 a taste, I suggest you go elsewhere (or combine your tasting dollars together for a nice bottle and purchase something to go).
Have fun!
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