435278 Sun Aug 26 19:09:00 -0700 2007 17 34 Wine 0 2884067 HELP! I'm an experienced chef, but I'm a relative fledgling when it comes to wine/food pairings... I'm going to be preparing an elegant dinner for 8 and need a wine pairing for the hors d'oeuvres course, the main course, and the dessert. Main course is grilled pine nut crusted freshwater trout stuffed with heirloom tomatoes, herbs and homemade goat cheese. Hors D'oeuvres is marinated shrimp (ginger flavor prominent), a type of fig tart and something else...not sure yet... Dessert is a classy take on s'mores -- homemade rosewater marshmallows/gingered graham crackers/bittersweet chocolate concoction. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks... Sun Aug 26 19:09:00 -0700 2007 72330 tsfirefly 1 2884095 Gewurtz and/or Riesling should cover apps and trout. Sun Aug 26 19:20:33 -0700 2007 2884067 50082 TonyO 1 2884140 With the trout, a bright, minerally/herby, not particulary fruity white. The goat cheese would incline me toward one of the steelier, less grassy Sancerres (or similar wines from Menetou-Salon or St-Bris, for example), though a Chablis could certainly hold its own. A dry Riesling from Germany, Austria or maybe Alsace could be interesting. Condrieu and other rich Viogniers make a good pairing for ginger shrimp and would certainly have the oomph to stand up to a fig tart, but might outweigh the main course white. Champagne or another sparkler, either pink or white, would be great. Dessert: A red *vin doux naturel* like a Banyuls, Maury or Rasteau or maybe a tawny port. Sun Aug 26 19:33:03 -0700 2007 2884067 10520 carswell 2 2884153 Thank you! Especially for the viognier approval...definitely my favorite. One of the attendees is a special friend who, as a former sommelier, has enjoyed many dinners with me laced heavily with ginger (a habit of mine) and viognier is always wonderful. Glad to hear it would do well with the fig, too. Sun Aug 26 19:36:22 -0700 2007 2884140 72330 tsfirefly 3 2888208 Viognier with Figs sounds unusual to me... be cautious with that one... As for a nice selection of wines for this meal... First, if these are wine afficiandos I would highly recommend setting it up so that the appetizer wine(s) can remain on the table as you move into the main course... and in this menu that's certainly the case. TROUT DISH: Just looking solely at "grilled trout", perhaps with some mild smoke overtones, that just screams chardonnay. Gewurztraminer and Riesling are excellent matches also, as far as the grilled trout goes. But then we get into the other substantial notes: Pine Nuts, in general, says Sauvignon Blanc. Tomatoes, in general, says Sauvignon Blanc. And lastly Goat Cheese says a number of wines, but none more strongly than Sauvignon Blanc. So, for the main dish we're really looking at the primary item (grilled trout) being first a chardonnay dish, but infused with sauvignon-blanc friendly backnotes. This is where it gets interesting as we digress for just a second and look at the appetizers... where you'll find the chase scene message is to serve the Sauvignon Blanc as a connection with the Marinated Ginger Shrimp, but leave it on the table when you bring out the Trout, at which time you also bring out a Chardonnay... APPS, SHRIMP: Sauvignon Blanc is an excellent connection with both Shrimp and Ginger, as is Riesling. Since I would have in mind to leave the S.B. on the table with the main dish (in addition to a Chardonnay), why not serve it here ? Second choice would be a riesling. APPS, FIG TART: The single-best matches here, IMO are some richer wines, specifically a Liqueur Muscat or PX Sherry, either of which you might serve as an apertif with the Fig Tart. Because Ginger is a particularly nice essence with Muscat, I think that argues more towards a Muscat as an apertif which nicely hits both the Figs and the Ginger notes of the Shrimp. If you want a lighter muscat sparkler that has similar coverage look at a Moscato d'Asti.... just a great party-starting wine that everyone loves. I'm talking myself into this as I type... So, to cover the 2 appetizers, first choice would be a Moscato d'Asti and a nice Sauvignon Blanc. And just leave the S.B. for the main dish as well at which time you also bring out a Chardonnay. Note the only potential drawback to the Moscato is that Muscat also figures prominently in your best dessert options, IMO. But the textural experience of a sparkler is so different from a "dessert muscat" that I don't think it will matter. DESSERT: The key here is the Chocolate and Ginger... Muscat hits both of these. Go with your favorite sweet dessert Muscat here. I don't have a second choice that's even close here. enjoy and please report back. Mon Aug 27 22:54:40 -0700 2007 2884153 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2884555 Agree that minerally is the way to go with the trout -- a savennières would be *perfect*!! You can get a pretty good one for about $25-30. Domaine des Baumard Clos du Papillon is a good one to look out for. Sun Aug 26 23:55:54 -0700 2007 2884067 16011 oolah 2 2885244 Thanks everyone -- Just had a menu change, though...found out that one diner can't eat goat cheese...so now my trout will have a nectarine-serrano salsa instead. The rest of the menu stays the same. How much will this change your recommendations? Mon Aug 27 08:38:16 -0700 2007 2884555 72330 tsfirefly 3 2885330 oolah's suggestion of a Loire Chenin is all the more appropriate. A lighter-styled Alsatian Pinot Gris would also work. If you went the German Riesling route, you could up the sugar level to a Kabinett, though personally I find the notion of stepping from a rich Condrieu/Viogner to a light and lively Riesling a little jarring. If you stick with the Viognier for your first wine, an interesting possibility for your new main would be Champagne. Pink would play nicely off the nectarine. Mon Aug 27 09:02:11 -0700 2007 2885244 10520 carswell 4 2886808 What about the widely available and affordable ($15) Pine Ridge Chenin Blanc / Viognier blend ? Mon Aug 27 14:33:00 -0700 2007 2885330 50082 TonyO 5 2887607 I haven't had it the Pine Ridge, but the fruit forward characteristic of most California whites (particularly the cheaper ones) probably wouldn't mesh as well as the wet stone minerality of a Savènnieres. Mon Aug 27 18:07:43 -0700 2007 2886808 16011 oolah 6 2889556 Actually, this white is not like the CA whites you describe. It's a well crafted blend marrying the tart acidity and citrus from the chenin with a slight lushness from the viognier. An incredible value. Tue Aug 28 10:52:11 -0700 2007 2887607 74451 vinosnob 7 2889810 Interesting -- I'll have to give it a shot! Thank you. Tue Aug 28 11:54:02 -0700 2007 2889556 16011 oolah 3 2888214 Well the Serrano Salsa just further tips the trout towards Sauvignon Blanc, IMO, especially with the pine nuts and tomatoes, it's the obvious way to go. NOW, without the goat cheese somehow I think this Trout may become somewhat less chardonnay friendly... So I'd revise the whole thing probably: APPS: Moscato d'Asti and a Riesling. TROUT: Leave the Riesling on the Table while you bring out a Sauvignon Blanc to join it and give the diners two tremendous wine matches to compare, contrast, and enjoy DESSERT: Dessert Muscat.... check with your vendor(s) as to what they have available.... beaumes d'Venise would probably be my first choice but an orange, black, or liqueur would all match this dessert wonderfully. Mon Aug 27 23:01:31 -0700 2007 2885244 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2887924 How about a Soave? Inama has a very inexpensive wine that has the right delicacy for trout. Mon Aug 27 20:07:12 -0700 2007 2884067 11731 bodie 1 2891751 Entrée: I’d pair to the nectarine salsa, the trout and the nuts.My experience with fruit salsas and fish is that a bright, acidic Rose often works the best. It will still be summer, and the dish is light and produce-friendly. Lots of wonderful recs for Rose on this board. Pinot Gris would be lovely also, as would the Pine Ridge ChB/V blend already mentioned (also a good buy). The dish does (IMHO) seem a bit busy with also the tomatoes and herbs. My concern is the possibility of the basic trout flavor being lost with all the accompaniments. I’d like to see the trout and salsa flavors come through most, and secondarily the pine nuts. Perhaps simplify the dish. BTW, if you stick with the tomatoes, I’d also recommend a Piedmont white wine, Arneis -- one of the best wines ever for tomatoes -- from region of Roero. Appetizers: Viognier with the gingered Shrimp. With its tropical flavors and autumn spices (make sure you choose one that is varietally correct), it will meld very well with the shrimp. A rose Champagne would also work. My guess is that the fig tart is actually savory – that you’re combining the fig with a mild blue cheese or goat cheese. It’s important that the sweetness level is dialed down – since this is not dessert – and that the flavors register in the mouth as more savory than sweet. Viognier, again. Dessert – the marshmallows are the most important ingredient because they *are* sweeeeeeeeet. Both the graham crackers and bitter chocolate are mildly sweet. When pairing desserts, the wine must always be sweeter than the dessert. Muscat isn’t sweet enough and does not have enough backbone, or intensity, to match the dessert. What would be fun are the caramel and nuttiness from a Madeira (Malmsey sweetness level) or a Pedro Ximenez (PX) Sherry. Then the s’more and wine together in the mouth will form a third flavor, much like a classy truffle. There is a separate good thread on Madeiras currently. I like the PX called Venerable, by Domecq, among others. The Madeira and PX are a bit pricey (good recs on this board, again) but once they're opened, they last a long time. Wed Aug 29 01:32:10 -0700 2007 2884067 18222 maria lorraine 2 2892510 Re dessert: Sweet muscats come in so many variations from sparkling/ mildly sweet to viscous/ raisiny-sweet. If you want super-sweet, how is a carmelly Liqueur muscat not "sweet enough" ? Meanwhile it's an extraordinary match with both Dark Chocolate and Ginger. Wed Aug 29 08:48:38 -0700 2007 2891751 42549 Chicago Mike 2 2893076 Thanks for all the suggestions -- My rosewater marshmallows do not have the typical syrupy sweet "marshmallow" taste, and when browned, the sweetness disappears even further. The dark chocolate and ginger flavors are definitely the stronger ones in the dish. Wed Aug 29 10:56:53 -0700 2007 2891751 72330 tsfirefly 3 2893124 Sounds interesting! If the choc and ginger are dominant, then the PX or Madeira will be perfect. Wed Aug 29 11:12:00 -0700 2007 2893076 18222 maria lorraine