432782 Sun Aug 19 11:05:02 -0700 2007 6 29 Not About Food 0 2859650 Yes, dear Chowhounders, another thread about OMG SHOULD I GO TO CULINARY SCHOOL?! But it's hard to get an opinon out there without going to such an on-point resource as Chowhound, so bear with me. I graduated college in '06 with a degree in English/Philosophy. The entire time I was in school I used to lament, "I should have gone to culinary school". I snuck in an independent study in Early American Cookbooks, kept up with food writers and food writing and even took a little hobbyist French so I wouldn't feel so lost in fine cookbooks. When I graduated, I worked an awful office job for 9 months, moved across the country to be with my then-girlfriend-now-wife and really had the free time to explore my passion. I'd sit in the library for 4 or 5 hours a day, cookbooks splayed open every whichway, taking notes, photocopying pages, yadda yadda. In short, it was the passion I watched other students display for their disiplinces that I never quite had for my own. I'm headed off for Peace Corps service next summer, so I have about a year to take some steps and try to "feel out" what I'd like to be doing with food. So, in a way, it was set. The question was: "What next?". And that's where you come in. I should note that while I'm way more than comfortable in my home kitchen and I adore the madness of a professional kitchen, I've never actually set foot in one. It's not quite my ambition to rise through the ranks and own a resturant. I'm not against the crazy hours or the bad pay, it's just not what I'd like to end up in. I wouldn't mind paying my dues for a few years, but long term I think something more academic or outside of the resturant-kitchen is more comfortable. Q1: I noticed that NYU has a great looking Food Studies program. Have any ChowHounders gone through the program? There's a caveat here: a GPA of 3.2. Like I said, I wasted my undergrad and came out with a 2.9. My GREs are actually quite good and exceed the minimum requirement, but I'm looking to get some practical experience to leverage against that lousy GPA. Q1a: This is a program that's very attractive, but also very competetive. While the Peace Corps service might give me a leg up in life experience, it won't change my past academic transgressions. Are there any other similar programs offered elsewhere? I've sort of had tunnel vision about the NYU program, although my cursory searches tend to peg it as unique. Q2: I toured FCI, audited a class, ran through that whole thing. I loved the place, but the cost made me kind of step back and think it over. 40 grand is a lot to lay out when commanding a kitchen isn't quite on the horizon. I'd go tommorrow if I had the money, but. I talked to a pastry chef who went there and she told me it was a complete waste of her time, that I'd be better off throwing myself at the mercy of any kitchen that would have me and learning that way. Have any CHers gone through the FCI program? Would you agree with the assessment? Q3: To anyone doing any kind of "food work" outside of a resturant kitchen: How'd you get there? What's your story? I'm thinking R&D folks, food journalists, personal chefs etc. Q4: What would you suggest as some practical experience? I'm stuck in small town Illinois at the moment, but I'll likely be back in NYC in January until deployment (Likely July or August). There's a Farmer's Market/Local Food group out here I'm trying to make contact with, but they're understaffed. Anyhow, thanks for the tips. I'm sort of at a crossroads and any kind of clarification/direction is much appreciated. Thanks! Sun Aug 19 11:05:02 -0700 2007 113582 GilloD 1 2860218 Hey, GilloD- I really wish I had specific answers for you regarding Questions 1 and 2, but I'll start answering with 3. I have been doing "food work" beyond kitchens interspersed with kitchen jobs. I have worked in wholesale gourmet sales, Private chef, freelance caterer, and now, purchasing for the specialty department of a high-end grocery store. My experience in the kitchen got me into all of these positions (even retailers like that I have a lot of experience dealing with the products in a high volume setting) but ultimately, I've kept the jobs because I'm a food geek- every aspect of it from how it is produced, processed, distributed, marketed, its chemical composition, and historical significance is all fascinating to me and I pass a lot of that on to my customers, whatever format I can. In conversations with food scientists, I learned that a strong academic background in chemistry and biology is a must (btw, Chicago is the epicenter of food research and science in America- between Kraft, SaraLee and smaller companies like Athenos that makes hummus and pitas for restaurants and grocers, there are many companies that are on the cutting edge of food R&D). As for being a personal chef, that segues nicely into my answer for question 4... As for practical experience, working in a kitchen is the only substitute for working in a kitchen- the question becomes what kind of kitchen do you want to work in? Restaurants are the first thing that comes to mind and is not a bad way to go at all! If you can make it 6 months in a high volume brew pub, you are in a good position to polish your skills in a "nice" place- half a step down from fine dining... or you can go a completely different route. I did the culinary school thing- and I'm glad I did, but if you have a mastery of the vocabulary and an understanding of technique, you just need the honing that experience will provide. I went into catering because I like Special Events- several years of production in a high-end full service catering kitchen expanded my knowledge of world cuisines, techniques, presentation and gave me a great sense of what makes an event successful. I pursued a path into Party planning, wedding planning, and event planning, but really needed more customer face time (Let this be a lesson to you- cooks can be some of the nicest people you will ever work with but they rarely meet anyone beyond their kitchens). To improve my lot and keep my skills sharp, I went freelance to work with a greater variety of chefs, kitchens, environments, events, venues, and ultimately- more customers. I also started working more often as a private chef. I am nowhere near doing it as my sole means of making a living, but It has allowed me to practice more then just cooking- I have to keep up my sales, marketing, planning, service, etc... skills. What I'm basically saying (rather rambling, sorry!) Is that your GPA is significantly less important than your intelligence, passion, and drive. Though I have heard of 1 company asking about a transcript, the wide world in general will appreciate your degree... and that's it. Let your heart and mind lead you with your well-read stomach into things that interest you... hey- if you spent time partying in college, do you know how to throw killer parties? Is event planning/meeting planning right for you? Are you a social person? Would a face to face job in sales highlight your skills? How about acting as a concierge in a hotel/resort environment (It is a stepping-stone position into other areas of planning and execution) Or are you more studious? Would working behind the scenes as a food & beverage director in a hotel/resort/restaurant franchise let you flex your intellect without sweating through a white coat? Now that I'm in retail, I know I'm not going to be rich in the near future, but I do get to help literally dozens if not hundreds of customers everyday- and not just with "where is the champagne?" but helping everyday folks plan events and parties in their own homes. This job could result in me opening a small wine and cheese shop someday. I can't believe I'm still writing! To sum up- Culinary school is a good thing, but it is not a full substitute for experience, and your bachelors is really the key to finding jobs beyond the kitchen. The Culinary world is a revolving door of opportunity- find a culinary staffing firm near you (how far are you from Chicago/Springfield/Rockford/St. Louis- caterers and food service kitchens always need temps!) or ask to stage in any restaurants nearby to get the flavor of it. If you really love the idea of cookbooks and journalism, start by immediately recording EVERYTHING you put in your mouth and describing it- start another food blog! Add to that whatever you make with your hands and you've got a healthy start toward the discipline a full time journalist needs. I'm sure if you keep a journal of your Peace corps experience, it would be a great document of experience, experimentation, and perseverance. Go with what you know. Talk to people you respect (go on- write a letter, an email, make a phone call, set up a meeting- just go for it!) Good luck with the corps, and never, never stop learning! Sun Aug 19 16:09:48 -0700 2007 2859650 39914 lunchbox 1 2860249 I don't have specific answers to your questions, but I can say this much. Going to and graduating from culinary school (e.g. NYU, CIA, etc.) is important if what you want to do is ultimately run a kitchen as an executive chef at well known establishments where credentials are key. If you ultimately want to instead be a chef/owner of your own place, I think your time is better spent, as you put it, "throwing myself at the mercy of any kitchen that would have [you] and learning that way" and then using the money you would've spent on culinary school as seed money to start your own joint. Take it for what it's worth and good luck. Sun Aug 19 16:24:45 -0700 2007 2859650 11583 ipsedixit 2 2860260 GilloD, before you do anything, read a terrific book called Becoming a Chef. http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Chef-Andrew-Dornenburg/dp/0471152099/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-8133343-9699607?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187566146&sr=8-1 I had a fantasy of going to culinary school, and when I found out how much harder it is than what I'm already doing, I decided to remain a recreational cook. Sun Aug 19 16:29:50 -0700 2007 2860249 83766 brendastarlet 1 2894149 It sounds like you're more into the restaurant/kitchen aspect than my experiences have encountered, but I'll tell you about my situation anyway (maybe it will help - and by the way, i'm responded to Q3 :) ). I found myself coming into the food industry accidentally, but I love it. I'm a food blogger and an editor for a food Web site. Email me if you care for the names but I'm not sure I'm able to mention them here without this sounding like too much of a plug. Food writing and READING has proven to be overly fun, interesting and rewarding. I definitely love getting paid to keep up with the entire foodie community, and what a community it really is. If you like to write, maybe that could be a start (if you don't want to pay for culinary school.) But I could definitely see where culinary training might feel more secure, and would definitely be more hands on. The very best of luck to you in finding what you're looking for. Hillary Wed Aug 29 14:53:18 -0700 2007 2859650 112406 Chew on That 1 2897608 Just to give you another example, I randomly landed in the food industry because I do marketing and decided I was done working for an agency and wanted to do some independant work. I applied for a number of positions and ended up taking one for a group of 6 restaurants I love it, I'm around food all the time, I've learned a ton about the industry, I get to read about food and stay up on all the trends in the restaurant world, while also writing to our customers. Basically it is fantastic. Just giving you another thought. Thu Aug 30 13:22:52 -0700 2007 2859650 66403 dagoose 1 2897709 The only advice I can offer is to pursue the best school you can, regardless of how competitive it is or how much harder it is than other culinary schools. I have noticed that as of late, all of those technical colleges that focus on people who dropped out of college or never had the interest in going in the first place, all have culinary arts programs too. It's incredibly popular and trendy right now. Cool, but I know some serious chefs that went to these schools and were incredibly frustrated by the amount of people in the program that basically didn't know what else to do with their lives, had no other ambition, or thought that they'd instantly be the next celebrity chef. They like Food Network or Top Chef and think they can do it too. Nothing is more frustrating than dealing with people like that when you're serious with what you're doing. Good luck! Thu Aug 30 13:39:19 -0700 2007 2859650 107212 Azizeh Barjesteh