431457 Wed Aug 15 00:24:08 -0700 2007 15 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 2846934 We tell ourselves, and probably rightly so, that we live in the best place in the country for fresh produce. I buy and cook it every week at our farmer's markets. But why is it that so many restaurants don't serve much of it, aside from some obligatory vegetarian dish or masses of starch? Awhile back, prompted by rave reviews, I went with my family to check out Range on Valencia in SF. The menu made a point of stating which veggies accompanied the main meat dishes. One example was that there were brussel sprouts. Another dish had rapini, a personal fave. Sounds good, right? The brussel sprouts were, in fact, a half of a single brussel sprout, cut in two. The rapini was a single bite worth. That's it. No exaggeration. I ended up calling the next day to complain. This was absurd. We're the food capital of the universe and that's an example? That the food we got was pretty good is beside the point. Key components were missing. Recently, I was in Chicago and happened upon a popular neighborhood place called Lula Cafe. They had a clientele and wait staff that would have fit right in on the same Valencia St. The menu was eclectic, international and full of locally grown vegetables. Not specifically vegetarian dishes though there were some, but the dishes had vegetables in them as a significant part of the plate. And they had various vegetable sides. We had a great meal and a great time. I wish this place were in my neighborhood. I'd go there every week. What are some of the places in the bay area that feature fruits and vegetables in this way? I'm not talking vegetarian restaurants, rather restaurants that give produce as high or almost as high a priority as they do the meats. Incanto comes to mind as a good example. Slanted Door always has vegetables. Tell me places you like that make it easy to get a balanced meal, preferably not at the higher ends of the price spectrum. Wed Aug 15 00:24:08 -0700 2007 109657 maigre 1 2847036 Cafe Rouge in Berkeley. Often I choose my entree based on the sides. Wed Aug 15 04:52:41 -0700 2007 2846934 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 2847853 I've read about Cafe Rouge, but haven't been. I'll check it out next time I'm in Berkeley. Wed Aug 15 09:43:49 -0700 2007 2847036 109657 maigre 3 2848209 The menu's on their Web site. Wed Aug 15 11:17:03 -0700 2007 2847853 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2847583 The only thing that worked for me at Lula Cafe were the sides. http://www.chowhound.com/topics/423288 I think you are looking for balance in general (not just "balanced meal" as in the official food guide recommendations) and I agree with you that it is hard to find. Perhaps one trend that will help is the recent tendency to name producers of vegetables and fruits, not just meats, on menus. And even if they are not named, people ask. My older daughter, who is more observant than I am, reported that during our recent dinner at Passionfish in Monterey, peach cobbler was a dessert special, and she overheard people at three different tables asking who had grown the peaches. Restaurants will respond to that sort of pressure. --PR Wed Aug 15 08:34:06 -0700 2007 2846934 21643 Prabhakar Ragde 2 2847873 Yes, it's balance in general I'm looking for. That we get it so rarely, at least in California/Mediterranean types of restaurants seems like sort of a strange paradox. We're supposed to be so caught up in things like vegetables, yet the kinds of restaurants that should be serving them up don't seem interested. Maybe it's because the clientele isn't interested. Going to a highly touted place and finding nothing but meat and starch doesn't do it for me. I'm all for the meat and the right amount of carbs, but that's not good enough. I had better luck at Lula Cafe, but I agree that it's not Chez Panisse in the sense that it's not refined and prepared to perfection. But I like it as having that balance I want and a good time. I felt good after eating that meal. That's worth a lot to me. Some delicious tasting meals don't really hit the spot. I like feeling satisfied and energized, not "hey that was great," but with my stomach bloated and falling asleep. Of course, there are meals that work on all counts and I'm all for them. FWIW, I did some of the Mexican circuit in Chicago, too, as I tend to do there. I'm sort of with you on Frontera, though given the crappiness of bay area Mexican food, I'll take it when I'm there. We ate a mostly good lunch at Sol de Mexico. I'll have to do the Rubi's thing next time. We always want to get to Maxwell St., but haven't yet. Wed Aug 15 09:51:32 -0700 2007 2847583 109657 maigre 3 2849459 My wife has been trying to eat in a lighter, healthier fashion on this trip, and she has been caught unawares at times by something which sounded reasonable on the menu but arrived drenched in oil (or worse, butter). It's part of the luxurious mouthfeel that is not only what many people associate with the dining-out experience but helps justify the prices (though that is by no means the only factor). Still, when I think about meals out twenty years ago, I think things have come a long way. I agree that they're not where they should be (or where they should be considering the sensibilities of many of the patrons of local restaurants), but it could be worse. --PR Wed Aug 15 16:02:04 -0700 2007 2847873 21643 Prabhakar Ragde 4 2849610 Ahaha. Like the "poached halibut" at Union Square Cafe--poached in goose fat! Anybody know where to get that around here? Wed Aug 15 17:06:08 -0700 2007 2849459 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2848202 I haven't been in a while, but I was struck at Salt House by a beautiful composed salad of individually cooked vegetables, each with their own optimal texture with a complementary dressing under my entre of hamachi crudo. The veggies weren't listed on the menu, but they were good enough to be a dish in their own right and balanced the fish perfectly both in terms of flavor and giving my digestion the right balance of veggies and proteins to feel great during and after the meal. Wed Aug 15 11:15:51 -0700 2007 2846934 17221 SteveG 1 2848538 I think that Firefly in the Noe Valley does a really nice job with vegetables. Their salads are wonderful, their vegetable side dishes are generous and delicious, and they offer 1 ovo-lacto vegetarian AND 1 vegan entree every day. Wed Aug 15 12:32:07 -0700 2007 2846934 10644 Nancy Berry 2 2848632 Good call. Wed Aug 15 12:53:26 -0700 2007 2848538 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 2849819 Agreed on Firefly. That slipped my mind. I like it there very much. Wed Aug 15 18:27:38 -0700 2007 2848538 109657 maigre 1 2849302 There are a lot of restaurants where I am constantly adding a side of vegetables in order to get my veggie quotient up ... or making a meal out of the veggie sides and then adding a small meat starter. A16 and Coco500 come to mind. Both have stunning veggies (and good relationships with local farmers). Wed Aug 15 15:24:22 -0700 2007 2846934 10922 Fig Newton 2 2849328 One more ... I really enjoyed the veggie sides that I had the one time I went to Acme Chophouse. I grew up with an aunt who is vegetarian, and she taught me that often the best places to get great veggie dishes is the traditional steakhouses. Between Acme's salads and veggie sides, you can do pretty well. Wed Aug 15 15:29:24 -0700 2007 2849302 10922 Fig Newton 3 2849832 I haven't been co COCO500 or its predecessor. Thanks for that tip. I think A16 is terrific and they have veggies, but I'd still like to see things balanced a little further in that direction. But I'll buy into the recommendation. I want to try Acme Chophouse. Given their supply of grass fed beef and such, it's right up my alley. Wed Aug 15 18:34:19 -0700 2007 2849328 109657 maigre 1 2849329 Great post! You've captured my thoughts exactly! Wed Aug 15 15:29:34 -0700 2007 2846934 25012 chemchef