430965 Mon Aug 13 17:16:02 -0700 2007 18 41 Cookware 0 2842296 I already have an espresso machine but when I found these they were such a good deal I couldn't pass them up. My partner loves coffee but has yet to take the time to learn how to use the espresso machine, so I figured the french press would proably be the easier way to go. But then I saw the Bialetti. Having both seems decadent. Or is it? Should I return one? Which one? Thanks for your suggestions! Mon Aug 13 17:16:02 -0700 2007 84286 jubilant cerise 1 2842483 You might want to give up on both of them after you look at the Aeropress. Mon Aug 13 18:14:52 -0700 2007 2842296 10743 yayadave 1 2842868 Moka pots like your Bialetti make good, strong coffee that I enjoy only when combined with hot milk (milk-to-coffee ratio of about 1:3). They tend to work best with espresso blends and dark roasts I find. French presses can make some of the purest tasting coffee, the closest thing to a coffee taster's cup, since there's no overheating and no paper filters. That purity makes them one of the best devices for getting the most out of varietal coffees including light roasts, though they also work well with many blends and dark roasts, and furthermore means they're merciless in revealing flaws (mediocre beans, beans roasted more than a week or two before use, beans ground more than a few minutes before use, etc.). Another plus is that cleanup is a snap. The downside is the lack of limpidity and the residue at the bottom of the cup; neither matter to me though they do to some people. If I could have only one coffee maker, this would be it. Neither makes espresso, though with a moka pot you can turn out a pretty mean latte. Mon Aug 13 20:44:16 -0700 2007 2842296 10520 carswell 2 2843390 If you get a french press, I'd get a stainless steel one, as I think they keep the coffee warmer during the steeping time. Tue Aug 14 06:19:56 -0700 2007 2842868 10985 MMRuth 3 2844661 There are a number of insulated presses available. I've used a, I think it was, Freiling up at a chilly ski cabin for a few weeks last winter and it was pretty great. First one up can make six cups, squash down the grounds, and then there are five cups staying warmish/hot waiting for everyone else to wake up. You lose a bit of the visuals -- which can be a big part of the french press experience -- so there are some tradeoffs. Tue Aug 14 11:27:59 -0700 2007 2843390 25310 Chuckles the Clone 3 2846515 How long do you steep? I usually go for two or three minutes. In cold months, I first fill the French press with boiling water, letting it heat the container while the kettle cools for the 20 seconds or so. Then I empty the container into a mug, add the grounds and fill the press with hot but no longer boiling water. My problem is usually that the coffee is too warm to drink immediately. I always thought the advantage of the insulated models is that they keep additional cups warm after pressing, as Chuckles the Clone describes. Tue Aug 14 20:12:21 -0700 2007 2843390 10520 carswell 4 2847208 I steep for 4 minutes. Smart idea to warm the container. I think the insulation keeps the coffee warmer during both the steeping period and after. Wed Aug 15 06:28:16 -0700 2007 2846515 10985 MMRuth 3 2848354 Since I live in the south I don't lose much during steeping. I would suggest to anyone using a FP to decant the coffee into a thermos after pressing so the coffee does not continue to extract bitter flavors from the grinds. Wed Aug 15 11:49:16 -0700 2007 2843390 89493 scubadoo97 1 2843180 I'd say dump the espresso machine and keep the other two. Tue Aug 14 01:47:03 -0700 2007 2842296 25310 Chuckles the Clone 1 2843442 Consider an Aerobie Aeropress for coffee http://www.chowhound.com/topics/284997 http://www.chowhound.com/topics/376390 About $30 on the Internet. Tue Aug 14 06:39:56 -0700 2007 2842296 11117 SteveTimko 1 2843558 The Areopress and a moka pot/Bialetti will give you a more espresso like drink. French press is more like a rich regular coffee. Vacuum pots will give you a drink similar to French press but with less sediment. All are good, just different. Tue Aug 14 07:16:31 -0700 2007 2842296 89493 scubadoo97 1 2843662 I have both, and will use one or the other depending on the kind of coffee I want. Having both is not decadent, especially compared to owning an espresso machine. French presses and moka pots are both inexpensive devices that are much better than drip machines. Tue Aug 14 07:44:25 -0700 2007 2842296 82374 DG14973 1 2845895 Thanks to everyone who's replied so far! I think I may just keep both so I can experiment and maybe even check into more on the AeroPress. Tue Aug 14 16:18:18 -0700 2007 2842296 84286 jubilant cerise 1 2846334 Experimenting is good, but here is something to consider: Both devices are really different. The Bialetti, as far as I can see, aims at Espresso and should be used with Espresso beans, i.e. the goal is to have water and coffee combine in the vapour phase (steam goes through the coffee, very short and intense contact. A French press is the optimized version of filter coffee (okay, that's a bit too simple), but the coffee combines with extremely hot boiling water, but still with liquid, and they spend more time together. It asks for regular coffee beans (I use the fair trade Costco house blend). I do prefer the French press. Tue Aug 14 18:48:25 -0700 2007 2842296 113909 fwilhelm 2 2846492 Modern day espresso is not made with steam. Most serious baristas and espresso machine makers aim for around 92ºC/198ºF, well under the 100ºC/212ºF boiling point for water. Also, although the water is under pressure (9 bar usually), it isn't vaporized. Similar water temperatures should be used when making coffee in a French press. Near boiling water makes the coffee bitter (and temperatures much under 90ºC/194ºF produces a sour cup). When making French press coffee, before pouring the water over the grounds, I let my kettle sit for 20 seconds or so after taking it off the burner. Tue Aug 14 20:01:58 -0700 2007 2846334 10520 carswell 3 2847322 If you really love coffee, I'd suggest you try every brewing method you can afford. You'll learn what you like and why, and you'll find you might like various methods depending on your mood. I still like the charm of a moka pot even though I have a press and an Aeropress and Technivorm at home and access to a Linea whenever I want. Regarding brew methods, some general guidelines: Espresso is usually 193F-205F, depending on the coffee used. Good blends more often are >200F, single origins can be all over the map - e.g. some Daterra are best brewed around 193F and Yirgs at 197F. Drip and press pots should aim at 200F, which is the temp offered by the SCAA as "ideal". Drip using a Swiss Gold will allow more of the natural oils to pass to the cup, improving taste and moutfeel (paper traps those oils). With a press, a good technique I've learned is to stir the coffee once after it blooms (bubbles up) to ensure a more even saturation of the grounds. Plunging can be done anytime from 3:00 to 4:00 depending on your tastes. Aeropress works best at 175F according to Alan Adler, its inventor. But others find that temps upwards of 190F work for their coffees, depending on grind. Your grinder is as important (or moreso) than any of the brewing equipment. A decent burr grinder is much better than a whirly blade (there are threads on that here) but a neat tip for a whirly blade to get a finer, more regular grind for Aeropress or moka pot is to shake it vigorously while you're grinding. For a press pot you want a coarser grind so a whirly can do that. I PeterG comes on here and disagrees with anything I've said above, listen to him ;-) The SCAA site has more info for consumers and there is also CoffeeGeek.com and Home-Barista.com for detailed methodology from folks who live for a good cup. Wed Aug 15 07:09:23 -0700 2007 2846492 24421 Panini Guy 4 2847439 The biggest disadvantage to the Aerobie Aeropress that I can see is that is uses about 50 percent more coffee than other methods. The biggest advantage is that it works great with hot water right out of the water cooler dispenser. Wed Aug 15 07:48:06 -0700 2007 2847322 11117 SteveTimko 5 2849136 Actually more. A "scoop" by SCAA standards is 7 grams. The Aeropress scoop is almost 12 grams. Wed Aug 15 14:47:03 -0700 2007 2847439 24421 Panini Guy 6 2849930 I don't use a full scoop for the Aeropress. It tastes just fine using less coffee. Wed Aug 15 19:18:58 -0700 2007 2849136 11117 SteveTimko