429727 Thu Aug 09 17:02:36 -0700 2007 130 35 Beer 0 2830912 I mean seriously - I am seeing this beer everywhere. The latest bummer was seeing it on a handle at the hotel bar where I'm staying. Last year they had Pilsner Urquell, and now Stella. I can't understand why such a mediocre beer like this is achieving such market penetration. Thu Aug 09 17:02:37 -0700 2007 10809 Josh 1 2830921 why what is up with it? Thu Aug 09 17:05:33 -0700 2007 2830912 58434 rob133 2 2834109 I guess what bugs me about it is the incredibly obvious inorganic nature of its popularity. It's a 100% manufactured phenomenon, where people only know about it because it's been stuck in front of their faces by large marketing dollars. It's not something like good microbrew, where popularity spreads based on things like merit and flavor. People are sheep, though, and will fall for any marketing campaign it seems, provided it's put together properly. Stella has a fancy name/glass, and is from Belgium, therefore it must be good! I remember the first time I had it, someone brought a sixer over to someone's house. I had heard of the beer, and that it was Belgian, so was curious to try it. First mouthful in I knew that I'd been had. Another bogus crap import beer for people to feel sophisticated ordering. Blech. Fri Aug 10 14:24:10 -0700 2007 2830921 10809 Josh 3 2921762 Stella has been brewing beer since 1366 and you think it's a fad? Fri Sep 07 21:08:41 -0700 2007 2834109 125592 RachaelRaysConscience 4 2922327 Assuming that's true, do you really suppose today's Stella Artois is the same thing SA's brewers were making all those hundreds of years ago? And, yes, boring, nondescript Stella has only become popular in the US in recent years. Sat Sep 08 08:35:55 -0700 2007 2921762 90936 Kenji 5 2922413 Well, I'm old but I wasn't around during the 14th century and therefore can't tell. However, Bavarian beer, since the adoption of the German Beer Purity Law of 1516, supposedly has remained remarkably consistent since then. Doesn't this argument boil down to personal preference, if you like dark, hoppy more complex beers Stella won't cut it but if you happen to like a crisp, clean lager (and yes I think Stella is crisp and clean and I love it) then Stella fits the bill. Sat Sep 08 09:10:31 -0700 2007 2922327 125592 RachaelRaysConscience 6 2922467 While the Artois brewing company (now InBev) is old, the "pils" style of beer was first developed in the mid-1800's and the brand/beer Stella Artois was first brewed in the 1920's as a Christmas beer, and was later turned into a full time offering. As for the "German Beer Purity Law of 1516", the Reinheitsgebot, here's a different view of it- http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm Sat Sep 08 09:47:27 -0700 2007 2922413 11059 JessKidden 7 2922921 Different than what? Sat Sep 08 13:45:09 -0700 2007 2922467 125592 RachaelRaysConscience 8 2923072 Ya mean the subtitle of "why it's a load of old bollocks" isn't enough? Different than the opinion that most beer aficionados (*including* myself, at one time) have about the Reinheitsgebot, it's origins and it's current incarnation. Sat Sep 08 15:12:31 -0700 2007 2922921 11059 JessKidden 9 2923283 I didn't pass judgement on or offer an opinion of the Beer Law of 1516, I merely made an observation. It's an interesting read, that article you point to. I'm still digesting it but I'll offer one brief observation: with the wide variety of beer available from around the world I think if a particular culture chooses to approach it in the way the Germans do that's up to them and it just contributes to the variety and choices available. The similarities and analogies are obvious: parmigiano reggiano is made according to strict rules going back centuries, and balsamic vinegar from Modena is approved by the consortium according to very strict and very old rules. There are also excellent parmigian cheeses not from the Parma / Reggio region and great balsamic vinegar not from modena, but having the heritage and history of those products just makes the whole experience of tasting and learning the differences between all the available products even more enjoyable. What I like best about the Beer Law of 1516 (and I'm no expert on the subject) is the cultural aspect of it, its effect on the modern day German culture, especially Bavarian culture which I am more familiar with than up North. Munich is Beer City, the appreciation the people have for beer there is something to behold. Now, I don't know how much of that can be attributed to the 1516 law, but to drive around Munich and see a 70 year old man riding a bike with a case of empties towords the local brewery for new supplies just warms my heart. And I just love Bavarian lagers and wheat beer, I even like that mixture of wheat beer and lemonade (I know, I know) so, to my palate at least, they seem to be doing something right. I'm curious what you think of Bavarian beers, as you obviously know your stuff? Sat Sep 08 17:29:26 -0700 2007 2923072 125592 RachaelRaysConscience 10 2923345 "And I just love Bavarian lagers and wheat beer, I even like that mixture of wheat beer and lemonade (I know, I know) so, to my palate at least, they seem to be doing something right. I'm curious what you think of Bavarian beers, as you obvious know your stuff?" Sorry but the wheat beers are outlawed by the Reinhotsgeibot(sp) of 1516. Only malt, water and hops. Yeast was added after it was understood. Wheat is not permitted in pure beer. Germany grabbed the lager style and made it theirs, but it is not the only way to make good beer. Try a Fullers ESB for a good easy dinking beer with taste. Sat Sep 08 18:03:51 -0700 2007 2923283 63643 niquejim 10 2923424 The history of beer dates back literally THOUSANDS of years. By that standard, the Reinheitsgebot is a relatively recent development. Germany is far from the be-all, end-all of brewing. Belgium has a brewing tradition dating back many centuries, and the appreciation of great beer in that country is everywhere, and they didn't need a special purity law to make that happen. In fact, their beers often violate that law by incorporating ingredients apart from the four it specifies. In any event, you completely missed a key point in what I said. Pilsner Urquell is neither dark, nor especially hoppy, nor particularly complex. It is, however, definitely a more interesting and better beer than Stella. People who like good beer aren't just sitting around drinking dark beer, or hoppy beer. Sat Sep 08 18:45:12 -0700 2007 2923283 10809 Josh 11 2923918 If you like Pilsner Urquell, try a czechvar Sun Sep 09 06:09:01 -0700 2007 2923424 53967 chrisinroch 12 2924036 Having read Josh's posts on this board for a while, I sure he's familiar with Czechvar and wasn't really looking for a "replacement" for 'Urquell just mentioning the fact that it was gone and replaced by Stella at that hotel. OTOH, the future of Czechvar aka correctly as "Budweiser" is somewhat cloudy these days, since it looks as if the Czech gov't is ready to sell with A-B the most likely buyer. (Gee, add one "minus" to the list of pluses and minuses re: the fall of Communism in Europe.) Now, I sort of doubt that A-B would drop the brand/beer - altho' if they did, they'd actually SAVE money on legal costs, according to this article http://e-malt.com/IndexNews.asp?Email=rgarvin@garvin.us&Id=11476 -I could see them selling it as ORIGINAL BUDWEISER or BUDWEISER EUROPEAN CLASSIC EDITION or something <g>. I doubt they'd even tamper with the recipe; "modernizing" the brewery?- maybe- as Pilsner Urquel did to some negative impact on the beer. I keep saying I'm going to pick up some in 1/2 liter brown bottle next time I see it fresh from A-B's new Import division (sadly the previous importers' stuff sits around a long time from what I've seen) and now it seems even more important to get it from the Czech-owned brewery while it's still available. Sun Sep 09 07:34:07 -0700 2007 2923918 11059 JessKidden 11 2925386 But the beer you're insulting comes from this admittedly fabulous beer culture of Belgium, and the Brewery that makes it dates back to 1366, well before the 1516 German thingy. The fact that they thought this was a good beer to market to the American market - and were right about it - you could hold against them if you want, I guess. I do get your point that you prefer Pilsner Urquel and that they spend relatively little on advertising (and therefore earn their business) compared to Stella. However, to be honest, I find the two very similar. Close enough at least that even a more sophistictaed pallet than mine would like both if they like one. How do they differ, do you think? Sun Sep 09 18:49:58 -0700 2007 2923424 125592 RachaelRaysConscience 12 2925807 Stella is a euro pale lager while Pilsner Urquel is (as you might guess) a Pilsner and thus is more aggressively hopped (among other things). But before I go any further I know the YOU think that they taste similar and in today's world what the individual THINKS is all that seems to matter anymore. Sun Sep 09 22:57:07 -0700 2007 2925386 26180 Chinon00 12 2926347 Stella doesn't come from the beer culture of Belgium. Stella may be made in Belgium, but it's no more Belgian than Budweiser made in the US is a Czech pils. Stella is a bland euro lager, indistinguishable from Heineken, St. Pauli Girl, or Beck's. Urquell to me has a noticeable hop character absent from Stella. It's also got a bit more body and is not as light. Really I just find it amazing to see the power of marketing at work. Mon Sep 10 07:59:42 -0700 2007 2925386 10809 Josh 11 5178390 "better beer"? How do you quanitfy "better"? You mean that you prefer it? Fri Nov 13 07:21:33 -0800 2009 2923424 1124214 Craugastoremcelae 7 2952207 Huh. I never read the law before. Didn't realize it prohibits dry-hopping. Wonder what the reason for that is? Tue Sep 18 09:50:54 -0700 2007 2922467 98500 Bat Guano 8 2962534 I doubt dry-hopping had even occurred to anyone at the time of the Reinheitsgebot. Fri Sep 21 07:14:48 -0700 2007 2952207 90936 Kenji 9 2962777 the new schneider-brooklyner hopfen-weisse claims to be the first dry- hopped beer made in germany. the idea of dry-hopping still hasn't occured to most german brewers! Fri Sep 21 08:28:16 -0700 2007 2962534 17708 warrenr 10 2963100 Well, if nobody was doing it then why bother to outlaw it? Obviously it had occurred to somebody - namely whoever wrote the law! Maybe the frugal Germans were trying to conserve expensive hops? Fri Sep 21 09:53:51 -0700 2007 2962777 98500 Bat Guano 11 2964730 Josh, have you been to Belgium? You'd be cursed right out of town if you told them that Stella is no more Belgian than Budwesier. They do love their Stella. Fri Sep 21 16:57:43 -0700 2007 2963100 66898 naven 12 2966756 It's my understanding that the Belgian breweries are doing so well these days because of the American demand for abbey-style beer. Not necessarily because of large-scale local affinity. Sat Sep 22 17:17:36 -0700 2007 2964730 51394 peetoteeto 13 2967294 It's on tap Everywhere. Every country loves their pale lagers. Just like Heineken is on tap everywhere in it's home city of Amsterdam. EVERYWHERE. Sat Sep 22 22:53:57 -0700 2007 2966756 66898 naven 14 5165861 naven speaks the truth. Very popular in Belgium. That and Jupiler are tasty and refreshing. No one will confuse it with a complex brew. It is a consistent beer. Sun Nov 08 17:22:46 -0800 2009 2967294 1092732 Alan N 13 2967866 If you looked at the statistics I expect you'd find the lion's share of Belgian beer sales in the US consist of Hoegaarden and Stella Artois. Sun Sep 23 10:18:11 -0700 2007 2966756 10998 Jim Dorsch 11 2967726 The Reinheitsgebot does not say anything specific about dry-hopping; it's only by implication that the practice it prohibited. Sun Sep 23 08:59:57 -0700 2007 2963100 90936 Kenji 12 2971250 Well, according to the translation posted in a link somewhere above, it says hops can only be added before or during the "simmer" phase (I assume that means the boil) - which means no dry-hopping. So yeah, it doesn't say 'dry-hopping,' or whatever the German for it would be, but the way it's written pretty much defines (non) dry-hopping. Mon Sep 24 12:48:13 -0700 2007 2967726 98500 Bat Guano 13 2971520 Are you referring to this (edited for brevity)- "#5- Hop powder, hops in other milled forms and hop extracts may be used in brewing, so long as these products comply with the following requirements:... Hop extracts must.... only be added to the wort before or during the simmering phase." http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm under "German Beer Law" a little over half way down. So, it seems to me that true dry-hopping with whole flower hops is allowed, only "hop extract dry hopping" is banned. Mon Sep 24 13:49:33 -0700 2007 2971250 11059 JessKidden 14 2971736 Yes, that's what I was referring to. I sort of glossed over the first part of the rule, and misinterpreted it as a total ban. Thanks for straightening me out. Sorry for getting so far off-topic, too. Stella really sucks! Mon Sep 24 14:39:04 -0700 2007 2971520 98500 Bat Guano 15 2972662 from a practical manner, can anybody think of a german beer that uses dry-hopping? None of the ones that i drink have the beautiful "in your face" hoppy nose that I typically see with dry-hopped beers. Mon Sep 24 19:14:51 -0700 2007 2971736 53967 chrisinroch 16 2973248 The Schneider Brooklyner Hopfen Weisse is the one that leaps to mind http://www.bunitedint.com/portfolios/producers/g_schneider/hopfen_weisse/ (tho' some might consider it not only "untraditional" but only "half German" as well?). For "in your face" hoppiness from a German pils (can't recall if it's dry hopped, tho'), I suggest a fresh bottle of Jever but, as has been discussed in this forum before, you must only buy it out of a closed case (preferably with a least 6 months to go on the "Best By" date), otherwise what'll be "in your face" is the scent of many beer drinker's least favorite white-striped animal (the one critter that no brewer has yet to name a beer after AFAIK...). Tue Sep 25 04:00:22 -0700 2007 2972662 11059 JessKidden 17 3044828 I had a Jever on tap on my recent trip to Europe, i will have to admit when I am wrong. It was really good. i might but a case now here in the US Wed Oct 17 18:42:50 -0700 2007 2973248 12484 MVNYC 18 3046843 You could just bypass that whole Jever minefield and get some cans of Sly Fox Pikeland Pils (very similar stylistically), if you can find it in NYC. Damn fine beer, and it just won Gold at the GABF. Thu Oct 18 11:29:28 -0700 2007 3044828 12713 TongoRad 19 3046965 My Pilsener spot is usually occupied by Victory, but I will give this a shot too if i see it. Thanks for the tip Thu Oct 18 11:56:16 -0700 2007 3046843 12484 MVNYC 20 3047188 Sly Fox's Pikeland Pils has pretty much replaced Prima Pils as my number one choice for pils (altho' it's not as easy to find, and when found, is often not as fresh- tho' the cans obviously help in that regard). And it's darn cheap, as far as craft beer goes- I pay around $25 a case in NJ. Altho' both Pilsner Urquell (really like the 1/2 liter cans) and Jever are still on the list, as well. For Jever, also pay attention to the "best by" date (both on the label and the end side of the cardboard case)- they give it 1 year apparently- I'm not so generous and look for it with at least 6 months to "go". Thu Oct 18 13:00:11 -0700 2007 3046965 11059 JessKidden 6 3043599 I agree - not sure about the US but it's been at large and very popular in Canada for years. Love the Stella challis too :) Wed Oct 17 12:44:48 -0700 2007 2922413 123660 eastcoastgirl_westcoastlife 1 2831347 It rides the wave of Belgian beer being good I think. In new York and london it is very popular. I think because the name sounds different and it really is just Belgian macro lager people seem to gravitate towards it. It is non threatening yet sounds exotic. Marketing and name recongnition plays a large roll in what people drink. As an aside, my British friends call Stella the wife beater beer because to them it is so high in alcohol. This cracks me up becuase it is only about 5.2% but compared with the typical british bitters and lager I guess it is high. To me a 7% beer is sessionable. Thu Aug 09 19:41:53 -0700 2007 2830912 12484 MVNYC 2 2831399 Inbev has done a good job of selling Stella Artois as an upscale beer, reportedly requiring draught accounts to serve the beer in its own glassware, which is elegant IMO. Thu Aug 09 20:04:16 -0700 2007 2831347 10998 Jim Dorsch 3 2831469 i agree with you, it is a nice glass. Good marketing. Thu Aug 09 20:27:21 -0700 2007 2831399 12484 MVNYC 3 3043613 You mean the official Stella "challis" - love it too. Love getting a free one with purchase at the liquor store even more! Wed Oct 17 12:46:43 -0700 2007 2831399 123660 eastcoastgirl_westcoastlife 2 2831588 I must chime in off topic just a bit; 7% beer is "sessionable". I envy your liver. Thu Aug 09 21:22:30 -0700 2007 2831347 26180 Chinon00 3 2832525 Yeah a six pack of a nice IPA is not too difficult. I am not saying I do this all the time, but it isn't too hard. The bigger problem is the 1500 or so calories that it packs. Fri Aug 10 08:28:10 -0700 2007 2831588 12484 MVNYC 3 3043604 We Canadians can handle the 7% lol Wed Oct 17 12:45:37 -0700 2007 2831588 123660 eastcoastgirl_westcoastlife 2 2834066 'Hooligan Juice' or 'loopy juice'...yep thats the stuff. Never understood the logic, but I have seen many people have a'crazy' night after drinking this stuff...Walking into the local after everyone has had a day on the stella can be an experience! Fri Aug 10 14:13:12 -0700 2007 2831347 58434 rob133 1 2832085 "I can't understand why such a mediocre beer like this is achieving such market penetration." Money? In this case, both InBev's and A-B's. With the brewing industry increasingly international in scope, I suppose it's inevitable that InBev (which is the world's largest brewer, based on barrelage- A-B and SABMiller reportedly are larger based on revenue) has set it's sights on the US market. In 2006, InBev had only 2% of the US market (and that was probably down somewhat from previous years since they sold the Rolling Rock brand which was in the Top Ten of US breweries). Still, the Big 3 in the US is so dominant (over 3/4 of the market), InBev's 2% still puts it at #7 in the US, even tho' their best selling brand in the US is Tecate at this point (InBev's Labatt and Becks are also in the Top 10 of US imports). Certainly, A-B's recent deal to become the US importer of many of the InBev brands is, in some areas, one of the reason so many tap handles are changing to Stella, but I'm guessing that's a region by region event, based on the ability of A-B to switch the brand to it's own distributors (some states have laws that protect a distributors' contract to carry a brand, even if the brewer or importer changes) and is probably also affected by what other "premium import" brands the local A-B distributor already carries. F'r'instance, in my area the local A-B distributor has long been the supplier for Heineken (a direct competitor for Stella) and I doubt that they are bothering to try to switch Heineken taps for Stella, since there's no gain for them. I've only seen one recent switch to Stella in my area (and can't really remember what was on that tap before) but I have seen a LOT of new Hoegaarden taps, as well other A-B imported/distributed beers like Widmer. Fri Aug 10 06:23:16 -0700 2007 2830912 11059 JessKidden 2 2833967 Some areas have seen lengthy periods of out-of-stocks on Inbev brands since AB took over importation. I believe that's improving now. Fri Aug 10 13:49:36 -0700 2007 2832085 10998 Jim Dorsch 1 2832580 I spent about three weeks in Belgium, ten years ago. My impression of Stella was that it was not a bad beer(they always taste better when one is close to the source). But it was everywhere! I decided that Stella was kind of the "Budweiser" of Belgium. And now that it seems to be readily available in the US, even on tap, perhaps they will compete with Bud!(yeah,sure) Fri Aug 10 08:38:57 -0700 2007 2830912 41726 Sam at Novas 2 2832811 Pretty much every country in the world has their version of generic mass produced lager. Some are better than others but they all serve one purpoose. They are non threatening(re:not even a shade darker than diluted urine) which suits the masses who generally do not like beer. Fri Aug 10 09:26:21 -0700 2007 2832580 12484 MVNYC 2 3896913 Was this prophetic or what?? Thu Jul 24 06:36:07 -0700 2008 2832580 41726 Sam at Novas 1 2841296 Because it's from Belgium, at first I refused to believe how bad it is. But I still have a couple of their glasses, because my GF likes them (one was a giveaway, and one was, ahem, liberated ... guess it's true what they say about Stella inducing bad behavior). Mon Aug 13 12:46:56 -0700 2007 2830912 98500 Bat Guano 1 2842097 Yeah, the Stella popularity is obviously due to great marketing. It's a below-average beer that has been branded in the US as a premium import for people to buy at clubs and restaurants so they seem hip and in-the-know. Stella Artois is the new Heineken. Mon Aug 13 16:10:56 -0700 2007 2830912 41050 mitchgx 1 2855427 Yeah, but a lot of liquor marketing is more about creating an image than pure taste. Hell people drink corona when they are not on a mexican vacation. Explain that one other than to chalk it up to pure emotion. Fri Aug 17 11:30:11 -0700 2007 2830912 53967 chrisinroch 2 2857917 Yeah, I've argued before that the current Stella Artois fad is analogous to the Corona fad which started in the 80s. They're both wretched excuses for beer. Corona seemed to catch on first among surfers in Southern California -- who were quickly followed in their bad beer habits with yuppies, et cetera. I wouldn't cite "emotion," per se, as the cause of these odd fads. I'd say it's a herd mentality coupled with undiscerning palates. Stella and Corona are BAD. Sat Aug 18 11:36:45 -0700 2007 2855427 90936 Kenji 3 2858003 "BAD" - As in the author Paul Fussell? Sat Aug 18 12:30:01 -0700 2007 2857917 26180 Chinon00 3 2858721 It's hard to call Corona a fad if it's been growing steadily for two decades, and at premium prices. I would say that both Stella and Corona have been marketed quite well. Sat Aug 18 20:30:16 -0700 2007 2857917 10998 Jim Dorsch 4 2861690 IMBMTAUBTWIRI *, the first era of Corona's popularity (late 70's-early 80's) *wasn't* due to marketing in the beginning, at all, but was sort of spread by "word of mouth" among what's nowadays called "slackers"- especially in Calif. (surfers, beach bums) and Texas (urban cowboys, cosmic cowboys). (In many ways similar to the Pabst Blue Ribbon popularity of more recent vintage.) I first became aware of the brand in a bar in Ensenada (circa 1976), where the US long-haired crowd was drinking ONLY Corona (tons of empties littering every table in the joint). IIRC, that's why Corona for many years had 2 importers, who eventually divided up the country under Modelo's influence to rationalize the brand and start profitting from this accidental success. (The Chicago company, Barton, wound up with most of the US *west* of the Miss- sans Texas.) At least one of the importers started by sort of "bootlegged" the beer out of it's normal distribution area. I seem to recall that they were the actual Mexican oft-used refillable deposit bottles with a paper additional label for US label requirements. Modelo was somewhat surprised by it, since they had long exported their "premium" beers (Modelo, Negra Modelo, Pacifico) but Corona has been their "economy/working man's beer". (It would be as if SABMiller exported Meister Brau and Hamms, instead of Pilsner Urquell and Miller High Life). Only after the "urine in the beer" rumor era when the first Corona boom ended did the marketers and image makers get involved heavily (and A-B bought a minority share in the brewery, since increased to 50% or so). Most of the histories on the 'net seem to be based on "sanitized" versions of Corona's US history, via the two importers, Gambrinus (which recently lost their deal) and Barton, and Modelo. Again--- * IMBMTAUBTWIRI = "I May Be Making This All Up But the Way I remember It" Oh, and as coincidence would have it, around the same era, Stella Artois hit these shores but the importer didn't do well with it at all and it quickly disappeared. Some outfit in Colorado had the contract to bring it in. They did a bit better a few years later when they bought the US rights to brew a former Irish beer, long gone from Ireland but still brewed in Europe, called Killians.... Mon Aug 20 08:24:03 -0700 2007 2858721 11059 JessKidden 5 2861809 Killian's Irish - "brewed and brewed and brewed since 1765" Uh-huh. By Coors of Colorado. Under license from Pelforth Brasserie in France. Uh-huh. And they get away with that kind of advertising crap. Mon Aug 20 08:58:20 -0700 2007 2861690 13136 Loren3 6 2861981 Well, Pelforth did get their license from the heirs of the Irish brewery (closed in the mid-50's IIRC, so there aren't many oldtimers left who remember the original beer, I'd guess), so there is some "truth" to it. Altho', Coors eventually lightened their version, lower the ABV and switched from an ale to a lager yeast ("lager" is there in small letter on the label now I read) but apparently that doesn't bother the current George Killian Lett, who does promo appearances for Coors in the US (between trips to the bank), from what I've read. Mon Aug 20 09:36:36 -0700 2007 2861809 11059 JessKidden 7 2862086 25 years ago I enjoyed seeing Killian's at a restaurant because there weren't many choices, especially in the East. Of course, that's changed considerably! Mon Aug 20 09:58:49 -0700 2007 2861981 10998 Jim Dorsch 5 2862135 That's my understanding of the Corona "movement" as well. It originally had nothing to do with marketing. Mon Aug 20 10:09:27 -0700 2007 2861690 90936 Kenji 4 2902195 What really kills me is the people who think they HAVE to have a lime wedge with a Corona! What in hell kinda rule is that? You can have one if you want, with ANY beer! Fri Aug 31 20:34:34 -0700 2007 2858721 10789 Wiley 5 2905398 no mystery to me....the lime covers up the flavor Sun Sep 02 18:20:55 -0700 2007 2902195 53967 chrisinroch 3 2863868 well, i agree but i think the analogy is not quite accurate: the stella artois is a bland lager, ok, but corona is a bland lager that tastes really BAD. By the way, Corona was a Puerto Rican beer in th 1950's and there was a huge legal issue around the name, because there were 2 beers -one mexican one puertorican- with the same name.So the legal issue lasted from 1957until the late 70's, when the people from Modelo bought the name "Corona" and changed its formula. Oh it is sooo baad. No wonder why the dominicans mix the corona with Clamato (tomato & clam juice), that's the only way they can drink it. Mon Aug 20 16:53:21 -0700 2007 2857917 117242 gurmanda 4 2864239 Thanks for the information. I was told a while back that my grandfather, who had a stint in Mexico in the early 1950s, drank Corona there. I thought, "How sad." But if Corona's formula changed in the 70s, maybe there's a glimmer of hope that my relative drank halfway decent beer -- or at least beer better than today's Corona. I haven't had Stella Artois in a few years, but I clearly remember it as not merely bland but bad. Budweiseresque. Mon Aug 20 18:48:12 -0700 2007 2863868 90936 Kenji 1 2858771 great marketing and if you happen to be in Belgium - a drinkable beer - otherwise drink local and leave the hype for the frat crowd. Sat Aug 18 21:07:13 -0700 2007 2830912 22477 jbyoga 2 2859159 I once traveled Belgium with an importer of some very fine Belgian beers. He defended Belgian pils as something a person might consume with a simple meal, for example, or when one didn't want to drink a bigger or more complex beer. While I think it's a shame that so many Belgians ignore their birthright of great beer in favor of these pilsner beers, they have their place. I think your comment addresses Stella specifically, and I agree with it. Sun Aug 19 06:59:29 -0700 2007 2858771 10998 Jim Dorsch 3 2859176 Most of the above posts hit the nail on the head. I lived in Belgium for a while around 1969-70 and Stella was the local beer at the time-even there as that was their standard at the time. They, of course, have re-discovered their great brewing traditions and there are some fabulous beers out there now. I've certainly had better Pilsner type beers there, other than Stella. Just another great example of good marketing over some people's perception of quality. Sun Aug 19 07:10:51 -0700 2007 2859159 46008 markabauman 4 2859644 As I stated in another post it is the combination of apparent profundity (fancy name, fancy glass, long history, etc) while tasting remarkbly like the same old light lager that has given rise to Stella's popularity here in the States. So I believe that in an ego driven sense some people wish to demonstrate to others, by choosing Stella, that they've "graduated" to real beer (when really only the label has changed). When it all tastes the same what other reason could there be? Sun Aug 19 11:00:27 -0700 2007 2859176 26180 Chinon00 5 2860410 I can't ascribe specific motivations, but certainly image drives decisions, at least decisions of people who aren't particularly knowledgeable about a specific type of product. I don't think drinkers necessarily are buying the same thing some of us are, namely sensory qualities. Corona = relaxing on the beach; Stella = elegance, or whatever. I wonder if some chowhounds buy the equivalent of Stella or Corona in another type of product. Sun Aug 19 17:42:15 -0700 2007 2859644 10998 Jim Dorsch 6 2860674 Could you elaborate on your last comment? Sun Aug 19 19:33:18 -0700 2007 2860410 26180 Chinon00 7 2860687 I'm just saying that people buy products for many reasons, and flavor may not be the driver for all of us. I remember reading a column by Stephen Beaumont one time, in which he recalled enjoying a really ordinary wine immensely because he was in a foreign city, and in that context the wine was sublime. (Perhaps not sublime, but you catch my drift.) Similarly, by drinking, say Corona, a person might somehow be mentally transported to a hammock on a tropical island for a half-hour, even though for me it would be more like the depths of hades. Sun Aug 19 19:38:26 -0700 2007 2860674 10998 Jim Dorsch 8 2860984 I dunno, I find that hard to imagine. I view the common element of 'hounds as that we are driven by flavor. I've had cheap products that taste good, but I can't think of anything I consume on purpose that actually sucks but has cool marketing. Sun Aug 19 22:36:02 -0700 2007 2860687 10809 Josh 9 2861112 I meant something else, like maybe pants, or those goofy rubber clogs everyone is wearing this year, or music, or whatever. But I don't want to take this thread off in that direction, so I'll save the rest for another day. Mon Aug 20 02:24:05 -0700 2007 2860984 10998 Jim Dorsch 10 2889889 Amen, brother. Although I'm not a big fan of Stella, I still think the snobbery in this thread is a little bit ridiculous. Is it so hard to acknowledge that some people have different tastes than you do? And that they might disagree with your choices? Sheesh. Tue Aug 28 12:09:34 -0700 2007 2861112 17987 nerdgoggles 11 2889984 If calling Stella a crap beer makes me a snob, so be it. Stella is basically Budweiser that is marketed as a "Quality import". This is the equivilant of selling some Euro processed cheese version of Kraft slices as a quality import. Tue Aug 28 12:31:03 -0700 2007 2889889 12484 MVNYC 11 2890126 I think everyone acknowledges that peoples' tastes vary. But it doesn't follow that every taste is determined by equal knowledge, experience, and discerningness. I mean, there's such a thing as bad taste. When people on this board bash McDonald's, do you accuse *them* of snobbery and an unwillingness to acknowledge that McDonald's fans have different tastes? Tue Aug 28 13:05:47 -0700 2007 2889889 90936 Kenji 12 2891071 "But it doesn't follow that every taste is determined by equal knowledge, experience, and discerningness. I mean, there's such a thing as bad taste" So your knowledge, experience, and discerningness is better than other, or just different. Also, if I have 15-20 minutes for lunch McDonald's is great and if I have an hour not so much! Tue Aug 28 18:26:10 -0700 2007 2890126 63643 niquejim 13 2891114 If you knew a person who had studied beer, sampled a great diversity of beerstyles, learned about its history, its current trends, and perhaps even homebrewed; and a second person who had had nothing but Bud and Stella his entire life, would you seriously maintain that neither individual had better knowledge and experience of beer than the other? Tue Aug 28 18:44:58 -0700 2007 2891071 90936 Kenji 14 2891426 Great point. In today's world people think that everything is subjective and that there is no one opinion is better than another. Come on, there are people who know more than others on a wide variety of subjects beer included. Tue Aug 28 20:50:45 -0700 2007 2891114 12484 MVNYC 14 2893758 I have studied beer, have sampled more styles that I can count, learned the history and I homebrew, so I understand your point. But the OP was asking why is Stella so popular and I'll stick by my thought that people(not me) like it. If this style was not popular companies would not push it on us the way they do. I don't push craft brews on my friends just like they know not to ask me a beer question unless they have time to listen to a long answer (They also know not to hand me a beer like Stella). Wed Aug 29 13:18:28 -0700 2007 2891114 63643 niquejim 15 2893803 The logical next question becomes WHY do people like it. I have friends who do enjoy craft beers who also drink Stella. I don't comment on it, because I don't want to be "that guy". I save that for online. ;-) Wed Aug 29 13:26:47 -0700 2007 2893758 10809 Josh 15 2893953 And again the question arises, in a world full of very similar euro lagers HOW did this one nearly overnight (actually about 10 years) gain such popularity. We KNOW that people "like" it but what brought them over to it when it tastes SO remarkably similar to so many other euro lagers (that this crowd was presumably drinking before) I believe is the question. Thanks! Wed Aug 29 13:55:24 -0700 2007 2893758 26180 Chinon00 16 2894110 Sadly it's probably the same herd mentality that bought several million "pet rocks" 30 years ago!! I don't understand it, just have to accept it. Wed Aug 29 14:35:24 -0700 2007 2893953 63643 niquejim 17 2895564 I think that your "herd mentality" comment is spot on. Stella is the beer equivalent to the Spice Girls" who were heavily promoted being seen everywhere. This led to a lot of people (young women) wanting to be "down" with the popular thing and the rest is history. Stella I predict will fade like the Spice Girls only to be replaced though with the "new" hot thing. Thu Aug 30 04:02:57 -0700 2007 2894110 26180 Chinon00 18 2895753 Stella Artois differs markedly from a teen band. It has a long track record. Inbev has been slowly growing the brand from a very small base. It target audience is composed of adults, who make decisions differently (hopefully at least somewhat more maturely) than young girls. In threads such as this one, someone always mentions the herd. But it's possible that the people who purchase Stella Artois are getting what they want for their money, that they're not buying it because everyone else does (and everyone else does not buy it, as Stella is still a rather small brand, albeit a fast-growing one), and that it will continue to satisfy them indefinitely. If Inbev continues to market Stella as it has, why wouldn't it continue to grow? It's a beer with a history, in a nice package (or glass if you're drinking on-premise), in a wildly popular category (continental lager), with a solid marketing strategy. Thu Aug 30 06:22:46 -0700 2007 2895564 10998 Jim Dorsch 19 2896030 I'm not sure if we're disagreeing or not honestly on the broader point. To me it's popularity must be primarily due to marketing and high visibility (because again the flavor profile that it offers is SO friggin common). To your comment: "It[sic] target audience is composed of adults, who make decisions differently (hopefully at least somewhat more maturely) than young girls", honestly all of these ADULT women that we've seen over the past decade guzzling down apple martinis and cosmos is NO coincidence. We are all too aware of the effect "Sex and the City" et al has had on the social scene. Thu Aug 30 07:45:54 -0700 2007 2895753 26180 Chinon00 12 3788083 "When people on this board bash McDonald's, do you accuse *them* of snobbery and an unwillingness to acknowledge that McDonald's fans have different tastes?" Actually, yes I would. There's a huge difference between being able to discern differences between various beers and knowing some sort of objective right or wrong answer as to "which is good" and "which is bad". What is good is what tastes good to that person, what is bad is what tastes bad to that person. If someone enjoys the taste of McDs food - more power to 'em. Tue Jun 17 11:46:57 -0700 2008 2890126 111910 jgg13 11 2891944 Is it snobbery to say that the rise in popularity of stella is not commensurate with it's taste? To say that there are better beers in this style is just stating an opinion. If you like stella, great. I'll grab a heinekin 10 times out of 10 if I want the profound skunkiness (a flavor profile that I dont mind btw). Wed Aug 29 06:04:51 -0700 2007 2889889 53967 chrisinroch 9 2862947 Tastes vary, while you think it sucks others do not. I myself like complex beers but have friends who like only light lagers. Much the same with food, I love many different foods but I do not like sushi. Just my tastes!! Mon Aug 20 13:13:35 -0700 2007 2860984 63643 niquejim 10 2863132 "liking" and "judging" are two different things. Mon Aug 20 13:51:13 -0700 2007 2862947 26180 Chinon00 11 2863454 "I mean seriously - I am seeing this beer everywhere. The latest bummer was seeing it on a handle at the hotel bar where I'm staying. Last year they had Pilsner Urquell, and now Stella. I can't understand why such a mediocre beer like this is achieving such market penetration." This is the Original post and I stand by my statement that people like it. It may not be good but neither is the best selling beer in the world. If I was in the brewing business I would rather sell more than cater to a small market even though I'm in that small market Mon Aug 20 15:00:44 -0700 2007 2863132 63643 niquejim 1 2861855 Is it just me, or does anyone else notice it tastes different now? I first had it about 7 years ago in New York and loved it, it was very different from any beer I had previously tried. Bought some when it first came to Ohio and it was as I remembered. Just bought it again after many years, and it doesn't taste anywhere near the same; it seems to lost its je ne sais quois. Mon Aug 20 09:10:06 -0700 2007 2830912 20522 gourmanda 2 2861874 I've noticed that I lot of beers that I liked in the past can either taste better than I remember or no longer do it for me. I attribute it mostly to my personal growth as a beer lover. I had a Anchor Steam for the first time in several years and it was great! Didn't recall it tasting so interesting. I don't think that the recipe changed so it must be me. Mon Aug 20 09:15:11 -0700 2007 2861855 26180 Chinon00 3 2862085 I've been told -- take it for what it's worth -- that Anchor Steam *has* changed. Specifically, in spite of its name, it is supposedly no longer a steam beer (i.e., a beer made with a lager yeast but fermented at temperatures more associated with ale); Anchor "Steam," is supposedly now a straight ale. Anchor's newish "bock" is also, curiously, an ale. Mon Aug 20 09:58:49 -0700 2007 2861874 90936 Kenji 2 3788102 I thought so too but my sample size was small enough thatI just chalked it up to bad memory. I first had Stella when I met up w/ some friends & some of their friends at a pub in England - had never heard of it before (being a college student at the time and just barely on the cusp of the real push in the beer explosion led to a dearth of options). When I came back I would have it on the rare occasions that I would see it basically because it was rare and "they like it in europe" (of course, the people i was with were *also* young college students, so ...). Well then the beer explosion really cranked up and there were all sorts of other options available and Stella quickly fell off my radar (maybe here or there on a whim). Then flash forward to contemporary times and a friend of mine drinks a lot of Stella ... because of her I'll end up having one now and then and I swear it doesn't taste the same as it used to. Who knows though. Tue Jun 17 11:52:01 -0700 2008 2861855 111910 jgg13 1 2863963 Hasn't this thread run it's course? Let's talk about good beer for a change! Mon Aug 20 17:25:10 -0700 2007 2830912 10395 brentk 2 2864637 I happen to think Stella is pretty good for what it is: A Euro lager. I usually don't order it, but it's not bad, especially during the summer months. You can't drink Dark Lord or Speedway Stout everyday, and sometimes a nice refreshing lager hits the spot. Plus, for many, Stella is a good introduction into better beer. Mon Aug 20 21:31:21 -0700 2007 2863963 66898 naven 3 2867982 I agree a nice refreshing beer hits the spot in the summer but to me Stella is not a nice refreshing beer. Refreshing to me woudl be a Reissdorf Kolsch, Paulaner Hefeweizen, Brooklyn lager, or even a nice crisp IPA.. Stella is just gussied up Budweiser. At least they both are better than Corona. Tue Aug 21 18:39:00 -0700 2007 2864637 12484 MVNYC 2 2864640 Fritz Maytag would fall down and pass out if he heard someone say that Anchor Steam has changed. Mon Aug 20 21:32:54 -0700 2007 2863963 66898 naven 3 2894003 i have heard that stella is very low in calories, perhaps that buzz is giving it some lift in popularity as well. Wed Aug 29 14:07:48 -0700 2007 2864640 103348 nyc44 1 2894159 Whatever, man. I like beer. I've lived in NY for 11 years but I'm from Indiana. Which means I've seen a lot of crap beer. And I drank a lot of crap beer over the years. I drank Pabst by the keg years before it could be found anywhere in NYC. At one point I drank lots of Black Label which is just now starting to take hold here (Levee.) Stella is an upscale looking crap beer. People like to be drinking "something newish" and so the market demands that old crap beer be replace by new crap beer. Truthfully the difference between the various boat loads of crap beer is negligible. But sometimes I just want a watery crap beer. Like I said I like beer. So really are you upset that Stella, the latest in crap beer, upsets you because it's doing well? or is it that what really upsets you are the losers who choose to drink whatever they perceive to be the acceptable beer of choice... made acceptable by upper east siders who don their brand alignments like guidos wear gold? Wed Aug 29 14:54:58 -0700 2007 2830912 123202 Crackpipe 2 2894240 Really, what bothers me is seeing it supplant better beers and occupy handles that might instead be something I want to drink. Every handle for Stella is a handle not pouring a better option. My complaint is purely selfish griping, because I'm always frustrated by poor beer selections. As I wrote in the OP, Stella replaced Pilsner Urquell at a local place. Pilsner Urquell is a fine Czech pilsner, and having it without the inescapable skunkiness found in the bottled version was a real treat. Wed Aug 29 15:13:23 -0700 2007 2894159 10809 Josh 2 2894541 "I drank Pabst by the keg years before it could be found anywhere in NYC." Wow, and I thought I was old. Even discounting the pre-Prohibition era (when Pabst shipped their Milwaukee beer to their Pabst Hotel in Times Square, their restaurant and theater at Columbus Circle, the Pabst's Loop Pavilion at Coney Island and the largest restaurant in America, the Pabst Harlem, located near Eighth Avenue at 125th) in the 1940's, Pabst bought a brewery just across the river in Newark, NJ and brewed Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer there for several decades until the 1980's- I'm guessing some of that beer once crossed the Hudson... Wed Aug 29 16:45:11 -0700 2007 2894159 11059 JessKidden 1 2894562 Wow, I think beer snobs are really more high gear than wine snobs. Hilarious thread. The answer to your question is so obvious, yet no one has mentioned it. It's because of the name. People like ordering it: Give me a Stella. It just sounds sexy. Like you're Stanley in "Streetcar" screaming "Stella.....STELLA......STELLAAAAAAA......." Wed Aug 29 16:56:06 -0700 2007 2830912 26542 suse 2 2894652 We have to be high gear as we have a lot of catching up to do to get in line with the wine snobs..LOL Wed Aug 29 17:25:06 -0700 2007 2894562 63643 niquejim 2 2895879 "People like ordering it: Give me a Stella. It just sounds sexy. Like you're Stanley in "Streetcar" screaming "Stella.....STELLA......STELLAAAAAAA......." <g> Yeah, there's that Brando aspect, but I gotta say, everytime I check this forum and read the title of this thread, I think it's about an upcoming "prequel" to: http://wc03.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:163169 Thu Aug 30 07:05:01 -0700 2007 2894562 11059 JessKidden 2 3788117 "Wow, I think beer snobs are really more high gear than wine snobs" I've noticed it more and more in recent years, to the extent that it is *really* starting to annoy me. I don't know if its actually on the increase or if it is just a perception. I suspect it is the former, and I don't believe that individuals are themselves getting snobbier but rather you just have more snobby people getting into beer. Tue Jun 17 11:55:23 -0700 2008 2894562 111910 jgg13 1 2905407 It's a cheap beer in Europe. Not sure how it's attained such an elite status in North America. Would probably be like Labatt's 70 becoming the drink of the trendoids in Europe. Sun Sep 02 18:29:37 -0700 2007 2830912 18056 Zengarden 2 3831927 Haha, is it? (Labatt 70 "trendy" in .eu) Tue Jul 01 21:22:58 -0700 2008 2905407 115105 duckdown 1 2925006 Stella is plain old basic, fresh tasting, good beer. Every town and city should have a brewery pumping something like it out at minimal cost, for the daily pleasure of everyone in the area. What is stupid is hauling this kind of product across oceans and making a big ooh this- is-it deal out of it. Sun Sep 09 16:06:02 -0700 2007 2830912 43399 atheorist 1 3067134 I have a friend who is a manager at a liquor store and he said that stella is now owned by Budwiser. This could be a main reason for the increase in distribution points and the down turn in quality. Thu Oct 25 12:42:52 -0700 2007 2830912 117640 2peasinapod 2 3067604 Your friend is wrong (not uncommon, beer retailers are often a fount of mis-information) or you misunderstood him. Stella Atois is the flagship brand of the multinational brewing corporation, InBev. Anheuser-Busch (there is no company called "Budweiser") recently created a new division called "Import Brands Alliance" to import beer into the US and signed a deal with InBev to take over the importation of Stella, along with other InBev brands like Bass, Beck's, Hoegaarden, etc. (They also handle other brands like Grolsch, Czechvar, Tiger, Kirin, etc). As a result, many local Anheuser-Busch distributors now also distribute Stella Artois. The recent "push" for the brand, however, was happening well before that deal was signed and in no way does "Budweiser" *own* Stella Artois... http://www.brandweek.com/bw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003466920 Thu Oct 25 14:34:06 -0700 2007 3067134 11059 JessKidden 1 3068033 Tried it for the 1st time this week. It's not common on the taps in La Crosse, WI. Not impressed at all. Thu Oct 25 17:16:05 -0700 2007 2830912 117385 4maxwelz 1 3896647 Stella Atois SUX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have tried this gunk of a beer based on an old Slayer Album cover in which Jeff Hanneman had a can of it in his hand. I saw it in the grocery store and I bought it. I was NOT impressed. I think people are just hung up on the sound of the name. ANd the thought that Belgium makes great beer is a HUGE falsehood. No French-like country ever made good beer. This crap is a waste of money in any language. Thu Jul 24 03:16:23 -0700 2008 2830912 212668 EX500rider 2 3896659 Stella's sure giving Heineken a run for it's money- they must be particularly worried now that it's teamed up with A-B. Thu Jul 24 03:30:37 -0700 2008 3896647 11059 JessKidden 2 3896899 Quote " ANd the thought that Belgium makes great beer is a HUGE falsehood. No French-like country ever made good beer." WHAT????????????????????????????????????? Thu Jul 24 06:30:44 -0700 2008 3896647 63643 niquejim 3 3902257 Can I just add an additional WHAT??????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fri Jul 25 16:10:28 -0700 2008 3896899 26180 Chinon00 4 3902481 I always forget exclamation points. Fri Jul 25 17:57:39 -0700 2008 3902257 63643 niquejim 2 3897757 If you are judging Belgian beer on the basis of Stella you are underinformed. As a homebrewer, however, I would hope and suspect that you are more knowledgeable on the topic than one might deduce from your post. To dismiss, out of hand, the Trappist brewing tradition as well as creative brewers such as Fantome, De Dolle, De Proef and Brasserie Dupont just seems myopic to me. I do know some educated beer drinkers who may not particularly care for Belgian beers but all of them respect their great skills as brewers. Oh, and another thought. There is a whole section of the country (the Flemish part) who would take great exception to being called "French-like." Thu Jul 24 10:51:06 -0700 2008 3896647 10395 brentk 2 3897863 Belgian breweries make some of the best beer in the world. Nobody with any real beer knowledge would dispute this. Thu Jul 24 11:18:05 -0700 2008 3896647 10809 Josh 2 3898155 Quote "If you are judging Belgian beer on the basis of Stella you are underinformed. As a homebrewer, however, I would hope and suspect that you are more knowledgeable on the topic than one might deduce from your post. To dismiss, out of hand, the Trappist brewing tradition as well as creative brewers such as Fantome, De Dolle, De Proef and Brasserie Dupont just seems myopic to me. I do know some educated beer drinkers who may not particularly care for Belgian beers but all of them respect their great skills as brewers. Oh, and another thought. There is a whole section of the country (the Flemish part) who would take great exception to being called "French-like." " I had Carpal Tunnel surgery on my left hand testerday and didn't want to type that much, but I agree 100% Thu Jul 24 12:31:05 -0700 2008 3896647 63643 niquejim 1 3902267 stella's an ok beer at best. i like the bar glasses. in-bev, on the other hand, is so highly leveraged following the bud deal that i'm thinking they will be in trouble if the recession grows deeper. besides, their stable of product, moving forward, is not that good. Fri Jul 25 16:16:37 -0700 2008 2830912 10627 steve h. 1 3949795 Did anybody mention that the six packs are only 11.2 ounce bottles? I find that much more offensive than the taste. Tue Aug 12 07:05:02 -0700 2008 2830912 190028 DexterM 2 3952460 agree about the skimpy bottles. youre really getting an 11 pack. that said , the women in my life seem to love the stuff. but my question is this, (about to uncover my ignorance of the behemoth that is the beer industry) is it brewed here or barreled and shipped? i ask because i got a 12 pack of narragansett ( 10 dollars!) off the truck the other day and once chilled found it to be a quite good summer beer. fresh from the factory made quite a difference. its brewed and bottled about 60 miles to the south. is it possible this stuff is just better in europe? whatever, so many beers so little time. Wed Aug 13 02:33:07 -0700 2008 3949795 72635 hyde 3 3952538 I can't compare those two beers head to head, but certainly the time from bottling makes a difference. All else equal, I always look for fresh American beer. I generally drink American beer here, Belgian beer in Belgium, etc. Many European beers come to the US with a 12-month freshness date. I think it should be more like 3-4 months. To answer your question, Stella is brewed in Belgium for the US market. (And Jess will correct me quickly if I'm wrong!) Wed Aug 13 04:46:02 -0700 2008 3952460 10998 Jim Dorsch 3 3952577 The current Narragansett beer is brewed in Rochester, NY under contract to the new owners of the label, tho' some of the other 'Gansett beers (Porter and Bock) are brewed at New England area craft breweries. As Jim notes, "fresher the better" is the rule for light lagers/pilsners and the Euro pilsners have a long a shelf life to allow for longer shipping/distributing times. Compounding that is the "traditional" green bottle which means the beers are often exposed to light before purchasing a six pack. Have never had a bottle of Stella- supposedly *their* green bottle has some secret "film/coating" to protect the beer, so I can't say if it works or not. (I only buy green bottled beers in closed cases). Wed Aug 13 05:17:51 -0700 2008 3952460 11059 JessKidden 4 3955210 sorry, thought they were brewing it back where "you can see the sunlight shining over narragansett bay.", still 390 miles is still better than 3000. i stand corrected. Wed Aug 13 18:10:47 -0700 2008 3952577 72635 hyde 5 3955880 No need to apologize to me- I just would hate to have you or another CH lose some bar bet over it. <g> To give the folks at the new Narragansett credit, they've been quite open and informative about it (over the requirements on the label, which allows "dba" names). http://www.narragansettbeer.com/showpage.aspx?pageId=67 (you may have to "click" their age check page first to get to it). Compare that to Pabst website where they don't mention the fact at all that they own no breweries. Unfortunately, even tho' I prefer to "drink local", the sad fact of the matter is that distance isn't as accurate predictor of freshness as popularity is. I'm sure I could go to any retailer with a good selection of craft beers and find older beer and "out of date" beer from breweries within a 100 miles radius, yet some beers from Holland and Mexico would be much fresher. With craft beer only 4% of the market, yet taking up half or more of the shelves at a good store, it's inevitable that a lot of beer just sits there. I notice that the "latest thing" will often fly off the shelves when it first hits the state, and then the craft drinkers move on to the next latest thing and last month's "hot" beer just goes stale. (The Founders beers that hit NJ back a few months ago seems to now be out of date from what I can figure, for instance, even tho' it was the talk of the beer forums when it first arrived.) Thu Aug 14 02:52:38 -0700 2008 3955210 11059 JessKidden 6 3957698 then i guess my only option is to drink more gansett and continue to stump for them. trying to support the growth of local (well, northeast) brewing cant be all bad as transportation costs rise in the near to not-too-distant future. i think they are trying, and it may not work out, but then i am a lapsed red sox fan, i know what a broken heart feels like. grr, bucky f**king dent. Thu Aug 14 14:01:42 -0700 2008 3955880 72635 hyde