428910 Tue Aug 07 13:12:03 -0700 2007 32 33 Food Media and News 0 2822513 Here's the link: http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6562042 Not that shocking...still... Tue Aug 07 13:12:03 -0700 2007 27275 ML8000 1 2823341 so sad...... my 19 mo old still loves momma's cooking. I hope to teach her there are better options like In-n-Out Burger...for us CA folks. Tue Aug 07 16:49:41 -0700 2007 2822513 94347 Ela0427 1 2823437 Yeah, I blogged about it this morning, nothing surprising, given McDonalds marketing strategy. Once hooked, hooked for life. Another interesting fact hit the news today, McDonalds has found a buyer for their last, non-McDonalds operation: Boston Market. Now that also tells us a lot about their marketing strategy and the consuming public, since Boston Market's menu is a lot more healthful than McDonalds. http://bfdblog.net Tue Aug 07 17:18:27 -0700 2007 2822513 10059 ChinoWayne 2 2823463 More healthful? When BM first found its way into the portland area we indulged a few times. Found their stuff almost inedibly salty. (Keep in mind that's coming from a certified salt fiend.) They weren't around very long. Tue Aug 07 17:25:20 -0700 2007 2823437 32586 revsharkie 3 2823631 Yeah, if you don't choose carefully, a Boston Market meal can be just as bad if not worse than a poorly chosen McDonald's meal. Getting rid of Boston Market speaks more to their brand focus...at which they're very good and with that goes their ability to market at which they're clearly, perhaps the best. Be nice if we could get some of their marketing folks to really start working on food education that would help sustain seriously healthy diets. Tue Aug 07 18:28:31 -0700 2007 2823463 80141 ccbweb 4 2823738 It would be nice if some marketing folks worked on food education. That said, I think even if they had the money to fund it (like the marketing dept of McD's) it wouldn't have the killer instinct to pull it off...or they couldn't use their killer instinct to the same effect...and industry flacks would attack them. Tue Aug 07 19:01:30 -0700 2007 2823631 27275 ML8000 1 2823558 Yeah, definitely not a surprise. On a related but opposite side, there was a study that showed very sick kids in hospitals do better if they get a happy meal once in a while. Not saying it's good for them...but it's relative. Still shows the power of marketing. re: BM...man that stuff is salty. The only thing I could figure was they're either trying to sell drinks or they salt the heck out of stuff for transport and shelf life (i.e., brining kills bacteria). Tue Aug 07 17:59:02 -0700 2007 2822513 27275 ML8000 1 2825136 I think thats a ridiculous study. Asking 3-5 year olds about which food tastes better? Come on, they are toddlers after all. I bet you'd get the same results if you wrapped the same food in an wrapper with Elmo on the cover. Wed Aug 08 09:11:10 -0700 2007 2822513 12821 ESNY 2 2825361 "I bet you'd get the same results if you wrapped the same food in an wrapper with Elmo on the cover." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, but wouldn't that still be because of the powerful marketing tool behind Elmo? Every 3-5 year old knows who Elmo is...it was the same food they were given in McD's or plain wrappers. The children just thought the food was better in the McD's wrappings. Same here - plain wrapper or Elmo wrapper. Elmo-wrapped food would be better because they've been incessantly marketed to - whether it's videos, TV, Toys R Us, etc. Wed Aug 08 10:00:52 -0700 2007 2825136 10532 LindaWhit 3 2826140 You know, I wonder if the same food was served at say a 1-star Michelin restro and a 3-star...would people think it better at the 3-star? Is superior presentation in a big-buck restro the same as a MickeyD's wrapper to a kid? Wed Aug 08 12:54:54 -0700 2007 2825361 27275 ML8000 4 2826362 Very good analogy - now wouldn't THAT be an interesting study! It's all in preconceived (or marketing-ingrained) perception. Wed Aug 08 13:42:26 -0700 2007 2826140 10532 LindaWhit 5 2826771 Don't need a marketing study. A farmer friend who grows specialty produce for upscale restaurants told me: "Growin' tomatoes is growin' tomatoes. They just pay me three times as much for these fancy ones cuz they call ' em heirlooms or sumpin'. Don't taste no different if you pick 'em right." And, "See this stuff. Nuttin but a weed. Used to use Roundup on it. Now we sell all we can grow. Damn yuppies eatin' weed salads." Wed Aug 08 15:17:35 -0700 2007 2826362 32444 MakingSense 6 2827366 I agree with that farmer. However, I do remember getting chewed out for saying the term "heirloom tomatoes" was meaningless, for various reasons. Wed Aug 08 18:48:41 -0700 2007 2826771 10246 choctastic 7 2827388 Heirloom is a fancy way of saying non-hybrid. Wed Aug 08 18:59:33 -0700 2007 2827366 27275 ML8000 8 2827422 No, I see it used for hybrid varieties all the time. Wed Aug 08 19:13:56 -0700 2007 2827388 10246 choctastic 9 2827535 Well then that's wrong and that's like putting a Booger King wrapper on Mickey D's. I always understood heirloom to mean seeds from the pre-pre-ag-biz days, naturally grown (non-hydroponic, not spliced, naturally pollinated) etc. BTW, just because they're heirloom doesn't mean they taste any good. Beef-eater tomatoes (an earlier hybrid) are very good during the right time of year. Wed Aug 08 20:05:01 -0700 2007 2827422 27275 ML8000 10 2827633 We don't need to beat this old dead horse again. Heirlooms are trendy right now and many people are willing to pay more just because of that. You can't distinguish by taste. Hard to tell once a lot of true heirlooms and some good hybrids are jumbled up on a farmstand. Some of the odd colored ones, sure, but not the plain red salad varieties. Yet a food writer for the NYTimes says that she's going to "slice up some heirlooms..." So that we know how chic she is? Heck, plain old me slices up some tomatoes for my sandwich. Remember when we had spaghetti for dinner - before we all started eating pasta? They cost the same but you can sell one for a lot more money. My farmer friend doesn't need an MBA to figure this out. It takes the same effort to grow an heirloom as a hybrid. He can sell the heirloom for more. Adults are just as likely to buy into marketing hype as little kids. Whether it's MickyD's or upscale trends. It's not the intrinsic value of the item, it's how we have been persuaded to perceive it by marketing. Wed Aug 08 20:45:30 -0700 2007 2827535 32444 MakingSense 2 2825379 I'd agree that it seems pretty obvious so it appears this is verification. Nothing silly with that. In regular public discourse, given the money that large corps have, scientific studies are valuable to both counter the usual PR and to provide neutral info. Re: 3-5 year olds...just wondering, do you have any good memories of any foods from that time in your life? I think most people do and I think in part, the point of the study is how marketing effects that. It doesn't sound like it was an expensive study Wed Aug 08 10:05:01 -0700 2007 2825136 27275 ML8000 3 2827385 The question is, how to combat this? Is it even possible? I liken kid fascination with fast food to adult fascination with status cars and designer clothes. Wed Aug 08 18:57:54 -0700 2007 2825379 10246 choctastic 4 2827704 How are kids different from adults? Kids see an identifiable character - Ronald McDonald - on TV and they have actually, personally eaten at his restaurant. And it's on TV!!! Cool. The places have food that is "accessible" for their age group, nice locations to socialize with their peers, and even recreational activities like playgrounds. There is more than food to the experience. Adults now have celebrity chefs whom they see on TV and read about in the food and general media. They are really interested if they have personally eaten at the restaurant of one of these important chefs. These restaurants are places where they socialize with their friends and enjoy the food. Of course they have wine which McD doesn't in the US. They might even get some "bragging rights" if the reservations are hard to snag. Perhaps they even planned an entire vacation around eating at several restaurants by some of these celebrity chefs. They could have eaten in their vry nice kitchen at home but there's more than just food involved. How can we combat it in the kids when adults do it too? Wed Aug 08 21:17:17 -0700 2007 2827385 32444 MakingSense 5 2831705 *How are kids different from adults?* um, kids don't have the same critical faculties as adults? Not to say that adults aren't taken in by marketing, but at least some of us are conscious of this phenomenon and can choose to fight it. Kids, not so much. Your overly simplistic "folk wisdom" posts continue to astound me. Thu Aug 09 22:44:23 -0700 2007 2827704 16011 oolah 2 2825875 I recall a report on the news showing children would prefer to eat a rock over a piece of fruit if the rock had a Spiderman or Dora the Explorer sticker on it. Wed Aug 08 11:58:18 -0700 2007 2825136 15245 Hello_Katty 1 2827741 Noted ornotholgist John Marzluff (In the Company of Crows & Ravens) tested urban crows using McDonalds' fries in their packaging versus the same fries in brown paper bags. He placed both near each other on the University of Washington's campus. The crows went for the McDonald's fries first 100% of the time because they recognized the logo. That, my fellow Chowhounds, is branding. Wed Aug 08 21:34:26 -0700 2007 2822513 11158 Leper 2 2828390 No; that, dear Leper, is utter nonsense. I cannot believe you are being serious, but if you are, read on. Since the crows I know do not watch television ads for McD's or any other brand, what they recognized was not the logo as you describe it. They may have seen the shade of paper used on Mcd's bags better; they have have seen the printing on the paper (regardless of what printing it is) and been attracted to the bags as a result of the visual interest; or who knows, maybe people in Washington are litterers and habitually throw their french fry bags on the ground and the crows have been conditioned to equate those with food. Whatever, it has nothing to do with McD's advertising and marketing. The art in research is not observing the effect, but explaining the reasons for that effect. In this case it sounds like the infamous study where the researcher had rum and 7-Up the first day and got drunk; whiskey and 7-Up the second day and got drunk; vodka and 7-Up the third day and got drunk; and concluded that since the only common element was 7-Up, that therefore 7-Up would make you drunk. There is far too much junk research sponsored by interest groups these days. This study seems little different. It is not surprising given that a high percentage of these kids reported eating at McD's on a weekly basis (that is the truly worrisome thing here) that they would be conditioned to equate the logo with a pleasureable experience. It is no different from one of us going to a trendy restaurant and eating food prepared by a noted chef -- many are likely to say it was great even if they didn't really like what they tasted. Thu Aug 09 07:08:28 -0700 2007 2827741 12103 Greg B 1 2828446 Isn't that sad? That is why I adore the Jamie Oliver series where he is trying to transform school cafeterias in England and is cooking delicious food - all they want is fries. I think it is in upbringing and kids' taste buds being developed at an early age. My parents said I used to eat with a fork and twirl pasta at the age of 3; along with eating swiss chard, rapini and a plethora of foods that kids these days would not even consider. I am 40 and I have seen the decline of the way kids eat and how they have become brainwashed by fast food. Look at the article below for how a town in Italy beat McD's. I love it. Now, they are making a movie about it - hopefully, it will have subtitles. http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/11/news/italy.php Thu Aug 09 07:22:43 -0700 2007 2822513 79652 itryalot 2 2828685 Wonderful story to illustrate that in a free market businesses have the right to fail if no one wants what they sell. That's how it should be. My local McD's wouldn't survive on my family's dollars but it's prospering on those of others. Same thing with purveyors of other processed and poor quality foods whether in restaurants or grocery stores The only way to make them go away, to make them fail, is to decrease the demand as those people in Italy did. If people don't want junk, those offering it close up shop. So how do we make that happen? Thu Aug 09 08:20:50 -0700 2007 2828446 32444 MakingSense 3 2828708 Now therein lies the BIG question! I posted a link for a docufiction being made about the whole situation. The link has a trailer (poor quality); I can't wait to see it. Thu Aug 09 08:25:41 -0700 2007 2828685 79652 itryalot 3 2828710 I think the question we're all asking is: why isn't McDonalds selling the wrappers in stores so we can wrap healthy food in McDonalds wrappers? They sell more product, build more brand loyalty, and I get my kids to eat foccaccia sandwiches. It's win-win-win. Thu Aug 09 08:25:59 -0700 2007 2828685 12359 monkeyrotica 4 2829309 Wawa stores are now selling Ciabatta sandwiches. Does that help? They even have a zippy TV commercial teaching people how to pronounce the word. Why don't you get a McDonald's wrapper and photocopy it onto lightweight paper? Make your own. Think your kids would fall for it? Thu Aug 09 10:26:21 -0700 2007 2828710 32444 MakingSense 3 2829671 I think it's a bit more complex then just the free market. Last line in the article, "McDonald's didn't get beat by a baker. McDonald's got beat by a culture." On that note, hamburgers and fast food are about as American as it gets. Even if the desire to have fewer Mickey D's is there...the cultural factors and economic factors combined are pretty mighty. Markets do not exist in a pure, complete free economic space...everything else in life factors in. Thu Aug 09 11:42:27 -0700 2007 2828685 27275 ML8000 4 2830048 AMEN! How can it change? Thu Aug 09 13:02:39 -0700 2007 2829671 79652 itryalot 4 2831686 Free markets may be the most complex market form there is. Everything comes into play. Why do we necessarily need fewer McDs? Why not use the models of McDonald's and other successful businesses for good. They can deliver food to even isolated areas at very reasonable cost in clean, attractive surroundings. Many are now offering more healthy choices. Fruit, milk, juices, salads, low-cal and low-fat options as more and more consumers are asking for them. Many have dropped "super-sizing" and now offer small portions in their "dollar menus." A wise consumer can eat sensibly at a fast-food outlet. If Americans overeat and make poor food choices, they can do it just as easily at an independent truck stop or local restaurants. Thu Aug 09 22:24:00 -0700 2007 2829671 32444 MakingSense 5 2831813 "Free" markets are complex because there's no such thing as a free market. The U.S. economy is not only regulated/legislated for health and safety reasons but also to provide economic advantages to particular groups. Regulations in large part help large trade groups (usually mature industries) and anyone that tells you otherwise is lying. Yes big biz complains about regulations until someone eats their lunch. The automobile industry is a good example: doesn't want regulations unless it's to keep foreign makers out. The ag-biz pulls the same stunt - give us the subsidies but protect us from foreign producers. None of that's free marketing it never will be. Smaller examples in ag includes the new USDA organic regulations that have given big ag-biz the upperhand while diluting what it means. Other examples include large marketing grants to winemakers. That's not free, that's taxpayer $$$. I'm not against regulations because I see value in them...I am against giving away the store and not getting anything back. Re: "wise consumers" picking healthy food at fast food joints -- common sense knows few people actually buy only the healthy choice at fast food joints? I'd bet on less then 10%. Simple answer - economies of scale. Fri Aug 10 00:38:41 -0700 2007 2831686 27275 ML8000