427461 Thu Aug 02 20:56:20 -0700 2007 23 34 Wine 0 2809481 Why is it that in France and Italy it is virtually impossible to find much non-French or non-Italian wine respectively; whether it be in restaurants, markets, or wine shops. While in other large wine producing countries like Spain and Germany a wide variety of wine from other countries is available. Just always wondered, Thanks! Thu Aug 02 20:56:20 -0700 2007 26180 Chinon00 1 2809520 Maybe because they produce great wine? And hence do not need anything else! Maybe because they are very "protectionist" and prevent other wines from being economically available? Maybe because they are myopic and do not understand that there is actually good wine from other parts of the world? Maybe you are just looking in the wrong place? BINGO? Being from a place that is serviced by the largest purchaser of wine in the world (LCBO) I have come to enjoy a very wide range of wines (that is not a comment on the quality of the available wines - today I tried a $12 Latvian Sparker than set a new benchmark for funky!). My at home experience initialy caused me much dismay when I travelled abroad. My travels to France, Spain, Italy & California have always left me amazed at the narrow selection (read "local") wines i found "available", but I have never been disappointed in the quality of the wines on offer -> which I declare is a key point here. I claim the following: The larger the selection of local high quality wines, the harder it is to find non local wines. (Makes sense?) As in any large city, if you suss out the specialty shops, you will find that you can obtain almost anything. Thu Aug 02 21:19:51 -0700 2007 2809481 114182 dancingTimmy 2 2809655 I think you have to chalk some of this phenomenon up to national and regional pride. Perhaps the French and Italians are resisting globalization and want to preserve what is unique and traditional about their respective cultures? After all, if France became like Ontario (i.e. totally multicultural), you wouldn't need to travel to France anymore, except maybe to look at pretty buildings. I do appreciate living in the "new world," however, where our choices are greater than in many European countries. Thu Aug 02 22:22:08 -0700 2007 2809520 99971 anewton 1 2809686 One reason is that tariffs and trasportation costs on imported wine are quite high. In France, with the exception of some multi-starred restaurants and large grocery chains, it's rare to find wines that are not from the immediate region or nearby. Also, the local wines are well suited to the local food (go figure!). Germany produces very little red wine, so most of the red (especially inexpensive Aussie and Chilean stuff) you find is imported. Thu Aug 02 22:39:04 -0700 2007 2809481 97345 Vinny Barbaresco 2 2810719 Vinny Barbaresco! First I must say I love your chowhound name! Having traveled to France and Italy many times for work and pleasure, I find when I go there it is an opportunity to drink as much local wine as possible.And as you mentioned, it is very expensive to import wine. Also when I travel to these great wine countries I only want to drink their wines which you cant get in the states, or might not be able to afford in the states. So when I go to France and Italy I will continue to explore wines that never make it to the states, along with wines I cant afford in the states. Purchasing Talenti, Chateau Rayas, Tignanello, Paternoster, Raphet, Dauvissant(sp), whenever I get a chance is part of the fun of traveling. Fri Aug 03 09:41:52 -0700 2007 2809686 49158 sharonm 2 2831207 Tarrifs on wine within the EU? I don't think so. Thu Aug 09 18:55:07 -0700 2007 2809686 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2810815 1. I think the idea may have to do with a sense of regional purity...meaning, you rarely find ingredients in a dish, much less a wine, that are from outside the region in which they're being served. Italy definitely has this sense of regional purity. France has such a strong sense of national identity that few "outsider" foods/wines are allowed. 2. Then, also, there is the sense of why "import" something when what is available right in front of you is so good? Doesn't make sense practically or economically. 3. And last, the food of a region and the wine of a region have had centuries to adapt to one another and are often the best pairings for each other. Fri Aug 03 10:08:33 -0700 2007 2809481 18222 maria lorraine 1 2829233 Ok, so I get Germany having to import red wine because they can't make any of their own (or very little). But Spain has very diverse wine as well. What's up with that? Thu Aug 09 10:08:33 -0700 2007 2809481 26180 Chinon00 2 2831212 Spain didn't used to make as wide a variety of good styles of wine as it does today. Thu Aug 09 18:55:44 -0700 2007 2829233 11369 Robert Lauriston 3 2831747 Robert, I believe Chinon00 is referring to wines from other countries being available in Spain rather than the variety of wine produced WITHIN Spain. The reason might be Spain's location as a separate almost isolated penisula, close to France (just over the Pyrennes), Portugal and Northern Africa, and its vast coastlines and many ports along the Mediterranean and Atlantic. Within Spain itself there is great tribal diversity, from the south to the tribally separate Basque and Galicia in the north. The country has had its share of cultural invaders, visitors and trade merchants from different lands -- perhaps the diversity of wine is due to all these things. Thu Aug 09 23:26:04 -0700 2007 2831212 18222 maria lorraine 4 2834286 Right. I'm saying that since until recently the Spanish didn't make the wide variety of styles they have today (e.g. virtually no good whites), they got in the habit of drinking imported wines. Fri Aug 10 15:06:44 -0700 2007 2831747 11369 Robert Lauriston 5 2838830 Spain has had the most acres of vines planted for many years, even though Italy beats them in production. Franco kept much of the diversity out until he died (1975?) I think the explosion since then is Spanish culture trying to catch up, it sure is different now then when I was there in 1985. True that the wine scene has made drastic changes even since late 80's and early 90's when Barbier (of Clos Mogador, Laurona, Figueres fame) and others made huge investments. BTW Did you know the most widely planted white in the world is in Spain (Airen)? ORIGINAL QUESTION: French buying anyone elses wine? that is like Americans buying Mexican wine (to them), there have been riots there bombing trucks of cheap imports. Remember also that wine is a normal part of their daily lives in both Italy and France, normal households can not afford to drink more expensive imports on a daily basis. Many tourists from the rest of Europe used to go to southern Spain also because it was cheap, and demanded what was familiar. When in Rome..does anyone really not want to try a Barbera or Barbaresco when in Piemonte? Chateauneuf-du-pape in Rhone? etc? Sun Aug 12 17:28:59 -0700 2007 2834286 118601 WillK 6 2840285 The protests and attacks on trucks are by growers and winemakers in the French plonk industry, not by consumers. Mon Aug 13 08:57:34 -0700 2007 2838830 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2837151 I dunno, I was just in Italy and most wine bars had French as well as Italian wines (fewer, but they were there) Sat Aug 11 20:39:53 -0700 2007 2809481 16728 kenito799 2 2838256 Maybe Italy had protective tariffs on wine prior before the EU eliminated them, and imported wine has become more accessible and popular since then. Sun Aug 12 12:34:51 -0700 2007 2837151 11369 Robert Lauriston 2 2838760 Way before the EU, in the days of the lira, the enoteca (wine bars) always had wines from other parts of the world. Restaurants, much less so. Sun Aug 12 16:47:56 -0700 2007 2837151 18222 maria lorraine 3 2840320 I lived in Rome in the mid-80s and, except for Champagne, imports were rare. A few of the biggest wine shops had a handful of other imports and the selection was usually pretty bad, e.g. Paul Masson. It was a shock to go to Berlin and see lots of great California wines in the KaDeWe. Mon Aug 13 09:04:53 -0700 2007 2838760 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2839068 I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about Spain. You will not find a wide variety of wines from other countries here in any normal sort of everyday setting. In fact, in my experience, I'd say you will find significantly fewer than in France and Italy. I'm curious... where did you get the idea that this wasn't the case? Sun Aug 12 19:26:05 -0700 2007 2809481 10661 butterfly 2 2839194 I found that for instance in markets you could easily get French Champagne, German Riesling, etc, (not so true in Italy for example) along with wine from Chile in some restos. This just wasn't the case for me in Italy and France (not that I was looking for those wines just the difference I always noticed). Sun Aug 12 20:28:11 -0700 2007 2839068 26180 Chinon00 3 2839221 Which markets?? Where? I live in Spain (Madrid) and that's just not the case! Sure the stuff is there if you look for it in specialty or internationally-oriented stores (which are few and far between in most places), but I'm nearly certain that Spain imports less wine from other countries than does either France or Italy. I almost never see foreign wine at wine bars here. Rarely in restaurants (those with an international sort of focus or cache). With the falling wine consumption in these countries, and availability of better local stuff in the case of Spain, the demand just isn't there. Germany is a completely different story. 17% of Spanish exports went there in 2006 (just behind the UK and ahead of the US and France). Sun Aug 12 20:40:52 -0700 2007 2839194 10661 butterfly 4 2839235 Listen all I can tell you is that I'm a person who is really curious about wine whereever and whenever I travel. I've been to Spain 3 times and Italy and France many times and the impression left with me was that wines from around the world were much more available in Spain than in Italy or France. Does that mean that Spain "sucks" and that Italy and France are the superior; of course not. It was only an observation. I haven't been to every wine bar, wine shop or market in Rome or Paris or Madrid (but I'm trying). Sun Aug 12 20:49:03 -0700 2007 2839221 26180 Chinon00 5 2839644 A few visits to a country can often give mistaken impressions... And I certainly never meant to imply that Spanish wine sucked, only that it is a major wine-producing country with very diverse climates, elevations, grapes, regional preferences, etc. The production here far outstrips the consumption, so--as with France and Italy--there is a very low level of importation (really significantly lower--see below). Germany on the other hand IS is one of the biggest importers of wine in the world. Here are the statistics: Spain Production: 33.3 million hl (2005) Total imports: $154.2 million, 472.4 thousand hl (2005) Total exports: $1.95 billion, 14.6 million hl (2005) Italy Production: 49 million hl (2005) Total imports: $340.7 million, 1.8 million hl (2005) Total exports: $3.9 billion, 16.1 million hl (2005) France Production: 54.7 million hectoliters (2005) Total imports: $659.2 million, 5.9 million hl (2005) Total exports: $7.02 billion, 14.07 million hl (2005) Germany Production: 9.1 million hl (2005) Total imports: $2.2 billion, 13.4 million hl (2005) Total exports: $713.9 million, 3 million hl (2005) Mon Aug 13 05:12:16 -0700 2007 2839235 10661 butterfly 6 2839666 These numbers are interesting, I had always "heard" that Italy has the largest production, I guess that is wrong. Does the source you used have numbers for USA, Australia, Chile, Argentina, NZ, Portugal? And per capita consumption? I have also "heard" that Portugal leads in percapita consumption of wine, at least for Europe. Mon Aug 13 05:28:28 -0700 2007 2839644 16728 kenito799 7 2839798 These statistics are from the Global Trade Atlas. I don't have Portugal or NZ handy, but here are the others: Australia Production: 12.9 million hl (2005) Total imports: $180.2 million, 347.4 thousand hl (2005) Total exports: $2.1 billion, 6.9 million hl (2005) Chile Production: 8.05 million hl (2005) Total imports: $4 million, 61.7 thousand hl (2005) Total exports: $884.5 million, 4.2 million hl (2005) Argentina Production: 15.2 million hl (2005) Total imports: $2.3 million, 4.7 thousand hl (2005) Total exports: $306.8 million, 2.2 million hl (2005) I could be wrong, but I think Luxembourg usually tops out the per capita wine consumption charts... Per capita wine consumption has been dropping in many European wine-producing countries, mainly because of the move away from table wine (in larger quantities) and toward higher quality D.O. wines (in smaller quantities--and beer and hard stuff, too). Mon Aug 13 06:28:56 -0700 2007 2839666 10661 butterfly