425822 Sun Jul 29 09:20:35 -0700 2007 19 31 Home Cooking 0 2793518 I am just finding out about these two. Have any cake bakers on this Board ever used these two? How do you use them? For what types of cakes? What makes them different from other buttercream frostings? Hope you can excuse my ignorance on the subjest, but I just found out recently about these two. Never knew that there were such frostings. Guess maybe this falls into "dumb question" catagory ?? Sun Jul 29 09:20:35 -0700 2007 65993 Lisbet 1 2793585 In The Cake Bible, Rose Levy Berenbaum says the neoclassic buttercream is easier to make and "yields identical results" to the classic buttercream so it can be used in exactly the same way. I prefer sugar to corn syrup in my buttercream, so I've always stuck with the classic recipe. A mousseline buttercream is lighter in texture than the other two because it contains beaten egg whites. In hot and humid weather I've had the mousseline buttercream break down on me so I tend to make it only during the cooler months. I find it a bit fussier to make since the butter--as well as the room--need to be just the right temperature. But I also find it to be a better piping buttercream so will use it if I'm doing more than just slathering it on. Sun Jul 29 10:02:03 -0700 2007 2793518 11407 JoanN 2 2796708 I agree with you on the desirability of corn syrup. Moreover, I have not had too many problems making classic buttercream, so don't see any reason to try neoclassic. As for mousseline buttercream, based on your description JoanN, that sounds like what I consider to be Italian Meringue buttercream. Lisbet, trying googling Italian Meringue buttercream and you may get more info than mousseline buttercream. (or, maybe no! Just a thought) Mon Jul 30 11:38:32 -0700 2007 2793585 11607 Smokey 3 2796934 I think the mouselline buttercream contains only egg whites whereas a meringue buttercream has a creme anglaise base that includes egg yolks as well. A meringue buttercream is also great for piping but since it's more work than the mousseline, I think I've only tried one once. I do a lot of baking, but make buttercreams almost exclusively for birthday cakes so I tend to stick with what I know and what I know works for me. That said, I just happen to have been researching buttercreams since I have two cake layers in the freezer and a 13-year-old birthday boy arriving next week. Mon Jul 30 12:39:21 -0700 2007 2796708 11407 JoanN 4 2797460 I was taught that an Italian Mereingue buttercream uses egg whites only. Maybe another meringue buttercream uses creme anglaise (e.g. Swiss, French, some other European country!)? Not sure. Mon Jul 30 14:43:33 -0700 2007 2796934 11607 Smokey 5 2797873 I think you're right, Smokey. Did a bit more research and it seems as though Italian, Swiss, and French meringue buttercreams do use only whites, not yolks. The recipe I was thinking of that's based on a creme anglaise is an RLB recipe that she calls Silk Meringue Buttercream that danna (below) referred to. It's entirely possible that it's just an RLB adaptation of the more traditional meringues. And now, after all this discussion, I'm even less certain what I'm going to put on my grandson's birthday cake. Mon Jul 30 16:37:17 -0700 2007 2797460 11407 JoanN 6 4530373 Swiss and Italian are both egg white based - Swiss heats the egg whites and sugar together over heat. Italian heats the sugar before incorporating into the egg whites. French is also sugar heated before incorporating into the eggs, but yolks are used instead of whites. Mon Mar 23 11:49:49 -0700 2009 2797873 174957 Patrincia 3 4530388 Sugar, when heated to the proper temperature before incorporating into a meringue base, will result in a much more stable buttercream - even in the most hot and humid summer months. Accuracy is essential, so for anyone who reports having had any problems with Rose's Mousseline Buttercream "breaking down" or not holding up in the heat, I would suggest the sugar was not brought to the correct temperature when it was cooked. Mon Mar 23 11:54:14 -0700 2009 2796708 174957 Patrincia 1 2797138 I've made Rose Levy's neoclassic buttercream almost exclusively til now. I like the texture and flavor and it's easy to do. @JoanN - I'm intrigued by your comment about preferring sugar in your buttercreams - as until recently I hadn't given another thought to using corn syrup. (I just finished reading "The Omnivore's Dilemma" and am trying to get as much corn-based product out of my life as possible.) Question for you - Does the sugar disintegrate so there isn't a gritty texture in RLB's classic buttercream recipe? Mon Jul 30 13:26:44 -0700 2007 2793518 105292 HungryLetsEat 2 2797182 For RLB's classic buttercream you make a sugar syrup by boiling sugar and water to the soft-ball stage, so grittiness is definitely not a problem. Mon Jul 30 13:40:29 -0700 2007 2797138 11407 JoanN 3 2797466 For all buttercreams I've made (none of which have been an RLB buttercream), you make a simple syrup. So, I'm with Joan--no grittiness. The grittiness probably comes from the 10x style buttercream of powdered sugar/milk/flavoring/butter, but that's just a guess. Mon Jul 30 14:45:12 -0700 2007 2797182 11607 Smokey 1 2797264 Hi Lisbet - Remember my "thrilling" buttercream thread from a couple of years ago? THAT was the mousseline buttercream with the variation of a fruit curd. DON'T DO IT!!!! Slides right off the cake when the room gets warm. Silk Meringue Buttercream is the way to go. Mon Jul 30 13:55:58 -0700 2007 2793518 10471 danna 2 4530311 I've been making Mousseline Buttercream for years, with and without the fruit options. This is absolutely the most stable 'real butter' buttercream around. Best tasting too. Hands down. I've never had a problem with it sliding off a cake - as a matter of fact, its my buttercream of choice when making wedding cakes. Mousseline uses only egg whites, therefor is much lighter in color, while the Neo-classic uses egg yolks, so is tinted a light yellow color (which affects the final color if adding optional fruit purees. Strawberry and Raspberry will end up being peachy-orange colored instead of pink). Mon Mar 23 11:31:45 -0700 2009 2797264 174957 Patrincia 3 5032834 Patricia, how do you use purees without the buttercream getting runny? I haven't been able to do that (I use the egg white buttercream), at least not with strawberries. I've got a wedding cake to do this weekend (for a friend - I'm no professional) and she wants a strawberry buttercream and I'm in a panic cruising the internet looking for a solution. I've got other fillings I like, but she wants strawberry (sigh). P.S. Love your blog - those are just the kinds of cakes I'd love to be able to make. Tue Sep 15 18:17:21 -0700 2009 4530311 1109664 margiev 4 5033102 I've used seedless berry jam or freeze dried strawberries pulverized in a blender. The latter you can get at Whole foods type places (just Strawberries) or Trader Joes. Tue Sep 15 20:23:40 -0700 2009 5032834 15001 jsaimd 5 5033391 Interesting - I've never thought of freeze dried strawberries. I thought of jam, but thought it might be too sweet. I wanted a more intense flavor - the freeze dried berries might do it! Thank you for the idea. Wed Sep 16 03:29:19 -0700 2009 5033102 1109664 margiev 6 5046219 I think professionals use some kind of flavor concentrate. You don't have a lot of room to add liquid to a buttercream, so it needs to be pretty concentrated to add sufficient flavor. It's the reason why (I was told) you use lemon oil instead of lemon juice to make a lemon buttercream. You would have to add so much juice to make it taste lemony that it would totally throw off the balance of water to, well, non-water! I think the freeze dried strawberries sounds like the best bet. I have the feeling that jam would be too sweet and insufficiently concentrated (my word for this post, apparently!). Mon Sep 21 10:34:24 -0700 2009 5033391 11607 Smokey 7 5053545 Yes, the freeze dried strawberries (pulverized) worked well. The taste was bright and fruity without being too sweet (with the buttercream taking on a pretty pink color) plus the buttercream texture was unchanged. When I tried fresh berries (straight or cooked with cornstarch) my cakes would fall apart due to the wet filling. This time the cake sliced beautifully. I'm a beginner at wedding cakes, so I appreciated this suggestion "jsaimd." Wed Sep 23 16:44:42 -0700 2009 5046219 1109664 margiev 1 4713045 I need help. I am looking for a great butter cream recipe that is creamy and smooth that will hold its shape for cupcakes. I would like to make cup cakes and frost with a butter cream with a large tip -- to look sort of like an ice cream cone, high with a tip on top. Does anyone know how I can achieve this? I sometimes see cupcakes with piped on swirls that are not smooth and look jagged. I appreciate any help. Mon May 25 11:07:11 -0700 2009 2793518 322773 thesnootyfoody 2 5054290 Recipe, technique, and piping tip described. http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Ice-Cream-Cone-Cake-239273 Wed Sep 23 23:59:44 -0700 2009 4713045 67436 stilton