Haute Gastronomy in Westchester
I recently poked my head into a restaurant being renovated in Yonkers and was invited in by the chef/owner (Harry Otto – O Bistro). Being a chef myself, the owner graciously invited me to tour his kitchen that seemed to look more like a laboratory of sorts. He had circulating water baths with digital controllers, a huge vacuum machine, a hand held homogenizer, laboratory grade temperature probes, gums, gells, enzymes, etc. He just seemed to be operating on a different plane.
When we spoke in depth I realized he knew everything I did but always had something more scientific to add. While he’s true to the works of Escoffier (which I lived on in culinary school), he says he tends to lean more towards the Ferran Adria (El Bulli) & Heston Blumenthal (The Fat Duck) styles of cooking, or shall we say creating. Otto posed the simplest of questions; “why wouldn’t I try and study the works of the best chefs in the world and then scale back if I have to?” “There’s a reason guys like Thomas Keller, Jean George, Eric Ripert and the like accumulate 4 stars”. I could have spent days just browsing his library.
I remember speaking with the chef at a well know historic restaurant in Tuckahoe (soon to be the subject of Gordon Ramsey’s “Kitchen Nightmare” television show) and after just a few minutes wondered “how is this guy running a kitchen?”. I was embarrassed for this poor guy as he couldn’t answer the simplest of culinary questions. Guy just didn’t seem to give a $%#. And it showed as the place was devoid of patrons.
On a sidenote here, I’m anxiously awaiting the premier of Ramsay’s new show as I’ve seen every episode from the UK. (If anyone’s interested is seeing an episode or two, please let me know)
Anyway, moving on, Otto asked if I had time to taste some samples. Well, needless to say, I couldn’t resist.
He put some duck in a vacuum bag, added an organic blood orange glaze, vacuum packed it and placed in a water bath for 40 minutes at 124F. After removing the bag, he cut it open and used a hand held smoker to infuse smoke into the bag (never saw anything like this before). After 2 minutes, he took it out and seared the skin with an oversized butane blow torch. It was absolutely perfect.
So I ask the question, why don’t more restaurants in Westchester strive for this sort of perfection? I remember having duck at a Moroccan restaurant in Mamaroneck and experiencing the most overcooked, dried out, devoid of flavor piece of meat. The ironic part it that this particular place received a “very good” from the New York Times and this duck dish was allegedly their specialty! Have the standards in Westchester really dropped to such an all time low?
I had the most wonderful hour in Otto’s kitchen and asked him who else (in Westchester) shares his passion for this sort of attention to food preparation. He said not many. The only other restaurants that he knew of were probably Blue Hill, X20 on the Hudson, Trotters in White Plains and then after that; it’s pretty much Manhattan bound.
I must say I have tried the food (and spoke to Peter Kelly) at X20. His playful style of cooking reminds me very much of The French Laundry. Very impressive to say the least. Here’s another example of a chef that never stops pushing the envelope of perfection. Always asking “what can I do to make this just a bit better?” Not, “how can we cut our food cost to make another buck on this dish?”
Similarly, take a guy like Dan Barber, think you’ll ever see a Sysco truck pull up to deliver tomatoes to Blue Hill at Stone Barns? The guy sits in his garden contemplating ways to make his produce grow richer and more bountiful with mouth popping flavor. It's a pleasure, again, to see restaurants that are always looking for new ways to push their cuisine to that "next level".
My question to the Chowhound community is whether anyone else knows of other places in Westchester that are taking this new gastronomy approach so seriously. Seems as if lately it’s easier to rattle off places “not to go”, rather than places that will "knock your socks off".
(Sad to say that the last time I tried to contact Otto, the phones were disconnected. It’s a shame that so may mediocre places survive and places like his sometimes don’t ever really get off the ground.)
billyparsons
Jul 29, 2007 05:07AM
Try Sushi Nannase in White Plains. Tiny place. Fish is flown directly from Japan and the chef is supposed to be pretty creative. There are posts about the place if you do a search.
The other place that comes to mind is Zeph's, although I am not sure if its taking this new approach to gastronomy as you mention. Your safest bet though is to head over to WD-50 in Manhattan if you have the time and the money.
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Well, I shall try again. Perhaps Ottos didn't survive because their prices were too high and their food too small. I like plentiful portions and good food when I go out to eat, as with Zen Tango and MacMenamin's Grill. I am sorry these two places are getting bad press.
Zeph's is another good example, although it has been awhile since I went there.
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I always thought the same thing. He's not into the "small portion" thing. It's a the preperation of his food I was interested in. No matter how long the duck sat in the sous vide equipment, it got better and better. Doing your homework in search of better production methods leads to less returns to the kitchen. I was just so impressed with his attention to food quality. His not opening has to do with money and construction concerns, not lack of business.
I need to try Zeph's. Zen Tango has way too much fried food for me to take them serious (although I know it's packed).
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Hey billy, although a far cry from El Bulli's (or even WD-50's) league, I've recently enjoyed local meals at Nessa, Morgan's and One. Things are improving in Westchester. Very interested in hearing more about Harry Otto. Is there any further information?
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Hey Reposado-
I tried One in Irvington and was impressed. But only because it was well prepared cuisine. Nothing made me say “hmm… wonder how they did this?” It’s what I like to call “old school” French technique at One. I’m definitely not knocking it because I can’t wait to go back.
With regard to Morgans in Rye, to me, just another fish joint. Slow service, too loud and just not living up to what I expected given all the buzz after RK left town (and stole all the contents). Boy the gossip you get hanging out in the little bar (with the 6 foot ceiling) across the street.
I never heard of Nessa. Can you provide a little further info on this place?
It’s funny that you mention WD-50 because when I was in Chef Harry Otto’s kitchen, there was a picture of him with Wyle Dufresne and someone else. These guys all hang around in the same “circles” and share ideas. Whatever question I would ask Chef Harry he would eagerly provide all the details. I guess there’s something to be said about knowing that for every idea you give away, you dream up two new ones.
I actually learned more from him about meat and the science of aging, coagulation, moisture retention & texture modification in 20 minutes than I did working as a butcher and cooking, what I always thought was killer steaks, for over 15 years.
He had temperatures for everything, and I mean everything, pinned down. From the perfect internal temperature of a cooked jumbo shrimp (for perfect shrimp cocktails), to when an egg yolk will coagulate. Guess it made sense. It’s almost as if when people come in for a dinner, they can say “now let’s see what the perfect jumbo shrimp cocktail tastes like”. I’ll say it’s sort of like creating a “benchmark” for your guests. Some people may think its nuts to stick a prawn with a digital thermometer; I think it shows how serious he is about perfection. I also think that when they build a “trust” for a chef in this capacity, they’ll be more apt to try anything he puts on his menu.
His cupboard must have had 30 different salts, 15 different peppercorns, mustards from France you can’t even buy in the U.S., more variations of vinegar than you can count, gums, gels, firming agents, emulsifiers; all for the sake of experimentation.
When I asked him if he would ever order from Sysco or shop at the restaurant supply house in nearby New Rochelle, he laughed and said “sure, I just had to order some towels for the kitchen and detergent for the dishwasher”. Even for his eggs, he went to Hudson Valley and spoke with the chicken farmer. Hence the picture of him with a hen, hanging in the kitchen. He told me he would never serve a piece of salt unless he could explain where it came from and why it’s on a diner’s plate. Actually, as comical as it seems, it all made more and more sense.
After I left Harry’s kitchen, I bought Heston Blumenthal’s book titled “In Search Of Perfection”. It really started to change my outlook on food preparation. Some of the techniques Heston uses are just plain old common sense that most chefs just overlook (including me). It also re-inspired me to crack open my French Laundry and Bouchon cookbooks. Two of my absolute favorite readings, in addition to my newly acquired “Sous Vide Cuisine” by Joan Roca Salvador Brugués ($160). Harry told me that by the time he got around to buying it, there was nothing to learn (but he loves a big library and shares his books with anyone that’s interested).
I will keep you updated, as I drive past Harry’s place often to see if the brown papers on the windows ever come down. There’s a place called Tara’s across the street that’s got a killer burger. The bartender said that Harry and the owner are good friends and they’ve been nagging him to open for well over a year. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
His website is www.theobistro.com and says “opening in 2006”. Oh well. I just wish him the best.
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I recently caught one of Tony Bourdain's shows, in Russia I think. One of the restaurants he highlighted was where 'chefs went to eat'.
I am still curious if you think Westchester is or ever will be a gourmet chef's paradise. When I see places like Zen Tango and (from all reports) MacMenamin's Grill go south in terms of quality, I see Westchester merely as a passthrough for the great food in this country. New York City, perhaps, may attract and keep great chefs, but Westchester?
I think Westchester is home to people who want good food at reasonable prices. Will Westchesterites pay for great food at exorbitant prices?
From what I've seen, I doubt it.
As I've noted in other posts, I have yet to have a great Italian meal in Westchester that didn't come with exorbitant prices or imperious service. So you tell me, billy, just why is it so difficult to meld all three qualities in an Italian restaurant, or any restaurant, for that matter?
Il Mulino, in the City, was impossible to get a reservation. But once you were in there, whether it was a put-on or real, the service was fantastic, the food of course was outstanding, and the prices were through the roof. Was it a weekly joint? Of course not. Was it a special occasion place? You bet. Is there a comparable place in Westchester? IMO, nope.
So why have I never seen, on a longterm basis, a restaurant in Westchester have: really good/great food; outstanding service without imperiousness; excellent drinks; free parking, validated parking, or valet parking, of course; decent to very expensive pricing.
Is that too much to ask? I've seen it all at some places for awhile. I've seen parts of the above at many places. But mostly, I've seen only bits and pieces of the above, which has still, as I've noted, kept me from having a place that I would call 'my place' on a weekly basis.
So you are in the biz. Just HOW difficult is a request like this to fulfill?
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Sorry to interrupt but here is a little of my opinion.
Valet = $
Great food, let's say bought from Dairyland (High end distributor) = $
Excellent drinks = $
Outstanding service = $
Free parking (Parking lot adds to the enormous real estate taxes) = $
Great Service = $
Garbage, Linens, Insurance, Maintenance, Payroll, Employee Turnover, Accountants, Lawyers, Bookkeepers, Electric, Gas, RENT
=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Factor in all the "hundreds" of other expense that a restaurant has that the average consumer has no idea about and the final bill comes out to $$$$$$$. It's sad because there have been many restaurants that have really tried to accomplish a moderate restaurant using quality food and top notch everything else, but only to fail because they were only busy on a Saturday night at 7:30 only !!! There is an Italian restaurant in Hartsdale which meets the criteria which is mentioned above and it is some of the best food in the county and it struggles every week to stay in business, it's just awful because that great Chef and his wife try so very hard.
I said it once and I will say it again WESTCHESTER CAN NOT SUSTAIN A MODERATE TO HIGH END RESTAURANT. If everyone would support there local restaurant more and eat at off times other than the almighty hour of 7:30 on a Saturday night and eat out during the week it would change the entire restaurant scene in Westchester.
It takes alot to run a restaurant business in Westchester and more support from consumers will mean better and consistent quality in food, service and decor.
The only places that will thrive are the low ticket mom & pop restaurants like Pastinas, Candle Light & Leffteris gyro who all do great.
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WESTCHESTER CAN NOT SUSTAIN A MODERATE TO HIGH END RESTAURANT.
Exactly. And I'd like to understand why. What makes up a Westchesterite? What does the average Westchesterite want in a restuarant?
I usually try to eat out on Sundays because I don't like the packed crowds on a Saturday at 7:00pm. I happily eat at off times, but I still want all of my criteria met. I don't think I am asking too much. I don't want food hermetically cooked in a jar kept on Funk and Wagnall's porch. I want food like Zen Tango had when Chef Denzil was still there. I want food like I had when I went to MacMenamin's Grill. I'd LIKE food and service like Il Cenacolo in Newburgh had when I went there. However, those are all high end. I liked Spadafino's a lot for what it is and plan on trying that out as 'my place'.
What is the Italian restaurant in Hartsdale? Best food in the county? It sounds like one not on my list and one I need to try.
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Lia's in Hartsdale. The Chef is amazing but unfortunately the lack of support from the neighborhood as well as the town have been poor. I have eaten there on about ten different occasions and the food has always been truly delicious. Of those ten times that I have been there it was never more than 50% full....I just do not understand it! The very faithful regulars (like me) are true fans of the Chef.
Dolores have you been? Another question Dolores whatare your favorite low end places and what I mean by that is casual fastfood style mom & pop establishments....not chains.
Thanks in advance.
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Funny, sausageking. A friend went to Lia's, twice I think, and had a horrible experience re seating! She couldn't get seated, when there were obviously empty tables. Now, I'm not sure of the details and since I like to see for myself, I am going to have to give it a try, and soon. Thank you for the name.
I posted these in another post, and I stand by them. In mentioning this to Mr. dolores, he said I should print this out so we can try them all again, one by one, so we can DECIDE on a 'this is our place!' place. Honestly SKofNY, the vast wasteland of dining in Westchester according to 'me' drives me nuts. By the way, we were at Silvio's in Thornwood when we discussed this (Mr. dolores is into the car thing at Rosehill) and except for the crappy middle of the room table (duh, I COULD have made a reservation) everything was spot on according to my criteria. There. Now HOW hard was that, I ask YOU????
All of my choices here are due to the post question. However, I have to admit, most of my dining IS red sauce Italian. I don't like the haughty attitude of most Northern Italian places, Pinocchio being the only wonderful exception. Mr. dolores won't eat at Indian places, so I haven't been to one of those in a long time. I am quite afraid to try Imperial Wok again, based on the posts here, but am a new, big fan of Bao's. When Aberdeen gets a liquor license, I will sing their praises. Mr. dolores won't eat at Greek places. *sigh* I don't have a seafood place and I won't pay for a potato on the side, so most steak places can float. Oh, I almost forgot about Le Provencal, which I love and the snail appetizer at La Cremaillaire is to die for. As was the calamari at Zen Tango before they screwed up. And I'm still on the search for a burger better than mine, although The Blazer and Candlelight Inn are darned good. That's about it, I can't think of any other cuisine that we frequent on a regular basis. Anyway, here's my list of red sauce Italians:
Graziella's, White Plains
Azzurri, Thornwood
T&J's, Portchester
Silvio's, Thornwood
Mamma Francesca, New Rochelle
Totonno's, Yonkers
Villa Nova, Pelham
Valentino's, Yonkers
Piero's, Portchester
Abatino's, North White Plains
Casa Rina, Thornwood
Spadafino's, Hawthorne
Scaramella's, Dobbs Ferry
Ernesto, White Plains
Emilio, Harrison
Gavi, Armonk
La Manda's, White Plains
Stay away from:
Gina Marie's, Tuckahoe
Alba's, Portchester
Lusardi, Larchmont
Bastone's, New Rochelle
Ciao, Eastchester
Enzo's, Mamaroneck
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Much agreement on your pros and cons, mostly the cons. Lusardi was good for a short time, a long time ago, and since then the prices went up based on rep. and the quality and consistency down. Same for Ciao. But a couple of the listed "pros" may have started their own slow decline as well.
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I can imagine. I haven't been to a lot of them in a long while.
Your updates will be appreciated.
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Don't like to trash a place until I've been burned there several times, (and badly), and I haven't let myself become a repeat victim at any on your good list.
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Sausage King-
East Hartsdale Avenue suffers from the same disease that Garth Road in Scarsdale does; "residents don't support their local merchants itis".
I've been to Lia's and it's great. Something you'd expect to see on Third Avenue in Manhattan. Ironic enough, their food crushes Harry's and Harry's still prospers because of the trendy bar and it's reputation of the place "to be seen".
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Billy.
I agree with you 100%
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I totally agree with sausage...I mean, look at the press from Belle Havana, for instance, an EXCELLENT review (which is not common) from The New York TImes. I love this place and have posted about it many times since I hope people read it and support another GREAT high/moderate end restaurant in Westchester. Suffice it to say, I went again last night (for another fabulous meal I might add) and the restaurant was HALF full. Its only been a week since their stellar review.
I do not get the "curse" of really great high end restaurants in this town. The original owners started with a completely different concept (French) that what they have now (French Cuban) They were forced to change, or else forced out!
You would think that in a county with such an overwhelming amount of wealth that GREAT EXPENSIVE DINING could survive, but they do not. And some of them are complete let downs -- I know that Billy Parsons mentions X2O, but after two tries, I'm giving up on that place.
I really don't think the people in this town support their finer restaurants enough, and of course that would inevitably lead to issues of inconsistency and quality. And when business slows down, you have to make the decision of using the fresh fish, throwing it out, or using what you have on hand. Then you don't get as good of volume prices from your distributors.
I was talking to the chef at City Limits and told her that their muffins are sensational, and asked her what kind of butter do they use. I had a feeling they use Plugra. And I was right. I asked her how she can keep her costs down -- she told me that she gets the best butter prices in town -- because they purchase butter by the truckload.
I bet their competitors have a more difficult time and are severely handicapped because of high prices. Look at the supermarket lately? Notice the prices on stuff like butter, eggs, etc.
Imagine how hard it must be for a restaurant to survive. I'm hardly a financial economist, but with the economy looking the way it looks, and the bumpy road ahead, it would take more than the elite and wealthy to pump some life into finer dining in Westchester. It would take the support of regular folks who can DEPEND on a fine dining experience in Westchester. Sadly, that doesn't look like its happening anytime soon.
For now I will stick to my chicken wings at Candle Light, burgers at Blazers and gyros at Leffteris!
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Raw Tuna-
I stopped by Belle and had some weird concoction made from fresh fruit. So thick it wouldn't even fit through the straw. Very "downtown-ish", and may I say – not really expensive for what you’re getting. Wow, never even realized they changed from the original Chartreuse. The review I saw on Belle was a "Very Good" though.
http://events.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/29dinewe.html
Could you e-mail me a link of any other reviews you have? I'd be interested in reading any material.
Funny you mention the Candlelight. The last time I went there for wings, they were so small you would think the wings came from a fly. But, much like you, it's hard to break the habit. Blazer rocks. Please don't spread the word on that one. I love that I can still get a seat.
Raw, if you get a chance though, browse www.ideasinfood.com . The place is out in Colorado and creates dishes like “fish with chicken skin” and “pumpernickel pasta”. Just experiment after experiment. The food isn’t prohibitively expensive, just innovative. We need something like that here.
With regard to local support, you're so correct. I knew the answer when I wrote the post but was afraid I'd be bashed for honesty. Westchester just isn’t as serious about food, period. One of the replies on a recent post was "I don't want to be blown away, I just want good food". So many people just want a decent meal. With that being said, why should a chef or restaurateur really even care?
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---So many people just want a decent meal. With that being said, why should a chef or restaurateur really even care?
Curious observation. So the fault lies not in the restauranteurs/chefs in Westchester but in the patrons?
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As I sat in the bar of an Italian Restaurant in Harrison, I overheard the chef-owner talking with one of his salesmen regarding the purchasing of strip steaks (it was during the afternoon). The salesman mentioned that he had a special on some aged primals and the cost was only about 65 cents more per pound. The owner replied "what...? come on... you know this is Westchester, these people don't care. They wouldn't know a better cut of meat if I smacked them in the face with it....".
I don't know dolores. You decide.
P.S. It's one of these: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/37387...
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I would say #8, and I haven't returned there beyond the first time I ate there. There used to be an innovative restaurant either in that space or close by during the 1980s, but it has of course closed and I can't even recall the name.
And there you have it. The Catch 22. No, I don't want to pay $88. for porterhouse for two in Mo's in New Rochelle. Heck, I don't even want to pay $38. a pound of wonderful, aged, marbled meat. I admit it. I'm happy with a good steak that Vinny the butcher cuts for me. I trust Vinny. I found Vinny and I will sing Vinny's praises until he and I pass on. And hopefully Vinny will be my butcher in whatever hereafter I and he go to.
That said, no I won't eat a steak from Tad's Steakhouse or Charlie Brown's or Applebees. My brother would. My brother is not a gourmet in any sense of the word. I was happy with Manero's. I am happy with Willett House and the Tollgate Steakhouse.
But I do care. I wouldn't be here, going on and on and on and on about food and restaurants and service and parking and moronic waiters and managers (okay, just two) if I DIDN'T care. Maybe most people don't care? I don't know, but I am NOT happy about the condition of dining in Westchester, for the most part.
Thus the Catch 22. Do Westchesterites get upset enough about moronic service to boycott the place? Obviously not. Do they RUSH here, as I do, to report on a good or a bad place? I'm not sure. Will they pay a little more for an excellent meal? I don't know that either. I was happily paying more for an excellent meal and outstanding service and free parking at Zen Tango and what happened? Chef Denzil left for Maryland. Why? Does anyone know? The current chef couldn't duplicate his calamari special to save his life. So the place is changing their cuisine. Well, I hope they manage their new cuisine with more expertise than the old.
I should get myself over to MacMenamin's and see them for myself. I happily paid more for their excellent meal and outstanding service and free parking. Was I happy that the oysters weren't replaced on a timely basis and the cheesecake 'ran out' during my recent brunch visit there? Of course not. Is this an indication of their dinners now? I'll have to find out and report back.
WHY is eating out suddenly so much like work??????????
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Hey Billy
Thanks for the link....very, very interesting. It was also depressing to see such innovation out in Colorado, while we are stuck in the outskirts of the supposed culinary capital of the world bickering over places like Lia's and Watermoon and Asian Temptation. What a joke.
You think if they have a place like that in Colorado, surely we could achieve such imagination here in Westchester.
I remember a fabulous meal I had while dining -- of all places -- in Louisville, Kentucky. Even the brunches were better there. The ideasinfood link reminded me of one of the most brilliant morsels of food ever -- a wonton composed of shreds roasted pork shoulder deep fried in its own roasted pork fat. It was like a chicharrone from heaven!
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i think we are overreacting a little bit. That place looks interesting but just because they make arugula soup doesnt mean that its a culinary jewel with great food. Culinary experimentation is complicated and not always succesful, as most people would tell you. There's a reason why most restaurants serve somewhat traditional dishes; Most traditional dishes are proven combinations of ingredients cooked in a succesful way. Even some of the most acclaimed restaurants in the area, elven madison, grammercy, and blue hill at stone barns have mostly traditional combinations. It would be interesting to get something more adventurous in Westchester, but there aren't that many "experimental" restaurants in the country to begin with. Oh, and good luck finding great sushi, decent central american food of all sorts, good turkish food, etc... in Colorado or Louisville. Trust me, Westchester dining scene is better than almost everywhere in this country save a few major cities. I have even spent time in Providence, which is supposed to be a culinary destination of some sort, and the restaurants there dont even come close to the quality of restaurants you have around here. We really shouldn't be so hard on ourselves.
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Last night (Friday) I briefly stopped by the new Italian restaurant that opened across from the Yonkers Racetrack (Empire City); Ristorante Primavera. For a Friday night, it was slow. I wondered, with such a nice place in such an incredible location; why? Then it started to dawn on me. They’re trying to be something they’re not.
Albeit a controversial post, my “10 warning signs” post said it all. See http://www.chowhound.com/topics/418374
I sat at the bar and ordered some simple stuff. Chicken Parm and a side of ziti (can’t help it, love that stuff). You can’t mess these up. Or can you?
Out came the linen. Cheap stuff, first corner cut. Then I picked up a fork, bingo, gawky junk with a stamp that said “China” (not to mention tarnished and scratched). Second corner cut. Wait, this place is brand new! Then came the wine glass; traces of lipstick on the rim. Ouch. The bartender immediately pawned the blame on yesterday’s bartender (who I’m sure would pawn it off on the Wednesday guy).
I turned around and saw a table with menus and a sign that proclaimed “As seen in Clipper Magazine!”. As if Clipper was a New York Times review of Excellent? Actually, kind of funny. I later got friendly with the bartender and he explained how they got busy, briefly, from Clipper “coupon cutters” but they never came back.
The food came out and it was, well, OK. Maybe, if they ever got into the Zagat guide, they’d be looking at a, oh, about 16 out of 30. So I ask this; why not spend a month visiting the best Italian restaurants in New York City learning what really great Italian cuisine is all about? Then invest that $250,000 renovating your new place? No better yet, with that sizable investment, why not go to Italy and visit the best Italian restaurants in the world. Chef Otto turned me on to the “list”. Yes, the list of the 50 best restaurants in the world. He told me he studied the cuisine of every one of them. I'm starting to do the same. Here's the list:
http://www.theworlds50best.com/2007_l...
Then, scale back as need be. Heck, no one says every restaurant has to be a super fancy $400 a plate world class joint. But at least learn what really great cuisine is and adapt your learning to the demographics of your intended area. As a side note, the owners also own Louie & Ernie’s on Central Avenue in Yonkers and, in 5 years, have been unable to conger up one review to hang on the wall. Hardly a recipe to start signing additional leases for more locations.
I asked the bartender if he had to “change three things about the place to get them on the culinary map, what would they be?” He responded with “nothing, the owners are actually ready to call it a day”. So I guess there’s the first thing you can change; attitude baby, attitude!
Think Mario Batali spends his time eating at mediocre places? Hell no! He visits top rated places in Manhattan and Italy constantly looking for new ideas to make his empire grow. You’ll really have to visit Del Posto or Lupa to catch where I’m coming from. Mario and his partner Joe Bastianich are so serious about they’re wines; they took the restaurant’s earnings and bought their own vineyard in Italy. Most places in Westchester just sit by the fax, waiting for the liquor distributors to fax over “case specials” on wines they couldn’t sell.
Anyway, until Westchester residents start kicking up their “game” and start demanding more serious restaurateurs, it will never happen. That’s just my take on it though.
P.S. I know I sound like a big Batali fan here but you need to see this guy work his dining room. Sometimes something as simple as a table visit and a “thanks for coming by guys!” can make all the difference in the world. In Westchester, it seems as if the owners think they’re doing you a favor even letting you in the door.
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Here's my take on why there are not that many "great restaurants." Whether people like it or not, westchester is still essentially suburban. Maybe this will change with time, espescially with places like Yonkers, New Ro, and White Plains experiencing a demographic shift.
The thing is that when people are looking to spend $40 or more a head on dinner they are looking for a special experience. Places that are truly special and succesful in Westchester offer a special setting (that probably cannot be imitated by manhattan) with excellent food (blue hill, kelly's restaurants). Sure there are those who are wealthy enough AND frivolous when it comes to spending money on dining experiences that they will regularly eat out at a place like One, or Tango Grill. But there aren't that many (for both financial and population reasons) that would be able to support those types of restaurants as regular dinner spots.
For people who do want to occasionally dine at a fine pricey establishment, there is no real impediment when it comes to driving into manhattan and spending a little more time and maybe $8-$16 more dollars in transportation costs. In general, I associate a chic environment with good food as something to be had in Manhattan, not westchester. I am not saying that there is no demographic for this type of dining in Westchester or that it can't be found in Westchester; The market for these restaurants is not sustainable though at the level that it would be in many other places or at the level that many on this board seem to desire. Therefore, in terms of fine dining, you're left with a group of restaurants that are truly special, like blue hill, and chic restaurants that range from mediocre to very good.
The latter group tends to be random in quality and has to do with complicated market stuff that I have no idea about. For example why is tango grill much busier than Lia's? Why do some places get overlooked while others get more attention? Sure location has something to do with it, but so do a million other factors (as an aside, I really dont understand what the big deal about parking is...suck it up).
Anyways, it isnt that big of a deal. It's not like there aren't great places that are affordable, which would be a much larger atrocity. It does make me angry though when restaurant's like Morton's, Lusardi's, and Tango Grill somehow succeed while others don't survive. Discerning palate + $$$$ would equal better high end restaurants but if it were really that simple then this thread wouldnt be happening.
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---The thing is that when people are looking to spend $40 or more a head on dinner they are looking for a special experience.
True.
--- there is no real impediment when it comes to driving into manhattan
True again.
--- I really dont understand what the big deal about parking is...suck it up).
Nope. The restaurants that don't offer validated or free parking in Westchester don't offer a wonderful enough dining experience for me to spend money on parking.
-- if it were really that simple then this thread wouldnt be happening.
True again.
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Dolores,
There are just some places that do not have any control over parking at all. If you are in White Planes and pay at one of those new Muni-meters and go to one of the local restaurants how can a restaurateur validate your parking?
Regarding Lia's it is one of those Northern Italian places so I don't know if it will be to your liking. I am very much like yourself and enjoy a good comforting red sauce place and was not expecting Lia's to be my thing but I was pleasantly surprised. They do have a special on Sunday's of "Home-style" spaghetti and meatballs which is what I have had on several occasions.
Tango Grill is busy because of there proximity to White Plains I unfortunately give them another year and it will be something else. I heard there is allot of internal problems with the owners, there was a planned "Tango Express" that was to be in the Westchester Mall but never happened just for that reason.
Also Dolores places like McMennimans and Zen Tango always start off great but after the lack of overall support and very slow weekdays "adjustments" to overhead have to be made to stay alive which unfortunately always effects the overall quality and experience. Similar to what Rawtunafan was writing.
On a quick note I went to Belle Havana late Saturday night (around midnight) and the place was packed! I came from an earlier event so I split a Cuban sandwich and had a mojito there and it was amazing! Although it was a younger bar crowd it was nice to see it busy. I guess by staying open late and catering to a younger crowd is some of the steps Belle Havana is taking to stay alive in Westchester county restaurant scene! Good luck to them because it is a great place.
Sorry to be all over the place but there is so much going on in this thread.
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