42121 Sat Dec 17 18:31:12 -0800 2005 37 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 204102 Normally, I shun supermarkets, but I just had to check out the new Safeway in Alameda (which anchors the newly remodelled "Alameda Town Centre" (aka South Shore shopping center) and replaces the really horrible Safeway in that center). It's huge. I mean, really huge. Probably the biggest grocery store I've ever seen (that is, that sells primarily grocery store items, not a combination grocery/drug store, although it does have a bank, a pharmacy and a Starbucks). It also has a much more upscale atmosphere than the average Safeway -- more like an Andronico's. This is exemplified by the fact that one entrance is dominated by "gourmet" items, a huge prepared food area and a wine department with an impressive selection of wines, including premium lines: practically the first thing I saw when I walked in was a display of Stag's Leap Wine Cellars Artemis Cabernet Sauvignon, at about $36/bottle (suggested retail $50). I didn't count, but estimated there were between 50 and 100 California cabs alone. Large produce section as well, with a decent selection of organics (a sign with updatable numbers announced they had 57 organic items in stock "today"). I don't think I'll be abandoning my anti-supermarket shopping philosophy, but I'll probably hit it up occasionally, especially since it's open 24 hours. Mostly I imagine I'll still shop at the Trader Joe's next door (where the clerk said they're busier than ever since the Safeway opened). Sat Dec 17 18:31:12 -0800 2005 0 Ruth Lafler 1 204103 I believe there are a few "upscale" Safeways around the Bay Area (the ones with the brown and white interior decor scheme). I've seen one in Walnut Creek and another in San Ramon. Sat Dec 17 18:39:09 -0800 2005 204102 0 Agent 510 2 204106 They're common in the far suburbs and exurbs. There's one in Concord most of the way out toward the Pavilion. Sat Dec 17 18:48:42 -0800 2005 204103 0 Robert Lauriston 3 2158754 The Diamond Heights (SF) Safeway is one of the chi-chi stores, and the one near me on Mission & 30th has just been remodeled. Sat Jan 06 02:54:07 -0800 2007 204106 10658 Atomica 2 204108 Yes, the Warm Springs Safeway in Fremont is like that. In addition to all Ruth says, it has a fresh cheese deptartment with wheels of good cheese, not the supermarket stuff. They give you tastes too. That was one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the Safeway near the ballpark in SF. I thought they would be more upscale. The one in the Strawberry shopping mall (marin?) isn't that great either, although they do have a lot of different and more gourmet canned/dry/bottled goods. Unfortunately it is at the sacrifice of basics ... like milk. I swear they only had one brand of milk when I was in there recently. The Market St SF Safeway alwasy seemed a waste of space to me. They have a huge store, but all they have on the shelves is more of the grocery basics. Instead of a dozen boxes of kellog's corn flakes, the shelf gives space to three dozen boxes ... that sort of thing. Well, it sounds like a good trend with some of those nicer Safeways. Sat Dec 17 18:55:00 -0800 2005 204103 0 rworange 1 204107 I was amazed at the wine selections. I was also amazed that they were right out in the open, 80 dollar bottles of Stags Leap Fay, bottles that even Bevmo keeps under lock and key. The rest of the store was also impressive having a fresh (as in unwrapped) meat counter and a much expanded seafood selection. I think it will do very well as long as they can keep it clean and well stocked. Plus, it's next to TJ's so I only have to park once. Sat Dec 17 18:49:56 -0800 2005 204102 0 Monty 1 204114 From what I remember hearing, I believe Safeway is trying to target a different kind of customer, now that "upscale" food is more popular. They are trying to distinguish themselves from being a bargain supermarket. The other Safeway in Alameda (on Bay Farm Island) was remodeled over the summer. Although the product lines improved, I was disappointed in how they tried to achieve a more upscale look by sacrificing space. For example, instead of dedicating an endcap to 3 different kinds of apples, they made it a space-wasting apple barrel with only one kind and maybe 20 apples artfully displayed. But then again, I love the Berkeley Bowl, which emphasizes selection over display. Thanks for the update though, I've been eager to see what improvements have been made over at South Shore. Here's hoping they add some interesting restaurants too! Link: http://chezchristine.typepad.com/ Sat Dec 17 19:32:27 -0800 2005 204102 0 Christine Y 1 204119 Just went this morning. The crowd is at least 3 times their usual numbers. Store is huge and very nice which makes my mundane weekly grocery shopping a little more interesting. On the other side, the crowd in Albertsons is dismayingly depressing. Sat Dec 17 21:03:11 -0800 2005 204102 0 Jennifer L 2 204120 But the Alberson's is depressing. It almost always smells bad, the produce is usually over the hill, no a pleasant place to visit. And, it will make by shopping more enjoyable. Not only bigger and better, but I think more choices. I was speaking with Winston yesterday, one of the old time employees. He said part of this serious upgrade is trying to keep up with the likes of Whole Foods and even Costco and the Walmart Superstores. Those stores carry so much and Whole Foods with their huge organic food selection is just killing them. Costco carrieds excellent wines as does TJ's so they had to upgrade in that area. As I see it, all it does is really benefit us, the consumer, by giving us another choice that has improved greatly. Sat Dec 17 21:13:45 -0800 2005 204119 0 Monty 3 204141 Oh, and I don't know if it's just because they're in their grand opening phase, but they were sampling stuff around the store like Costco. I was actually touched by the young produce clerk sampling fresh pineapple, who remarked he'd never tasted fresh pineapple before, and how good it was (presumably compared to canned). It reminded me that there are still lots of people, even in California, who don't eat much fresh produce. Now that I think about it, the produce section was almost deserted, which is kind of sad. I also did my good deed for the day by explaining to a young man puzzling over his shopping list that "fresh coriander leaves" was cilantro. Interestingly, my housemate, who is feeding a teenaged boy and spends a lot of money at Safeway, hates the new store: she was complaining that it's too big, she ends up walking for what seems like miles to get everything she needs, and the aisles are too narrow and clogged with displays. So while the store may be attractive to some people, it's definitely turning off others. Sun Dec 18 01:20:17 -0800 2005 204120 0 Ruth Lafler 4 204183 Safeway's produce is the worst. Maybe it was deserted because Alameda residents have better options. Sun Dec 18 14:59:36 -0800 2005 204141 0 Robert Lauriston 5 204193 I didn't know if we have better produce options here in Alameda. Which place are you referring to? If I want better produce, I have to go to Berkeley Bowl. Sun Dec 18 15:38:52 -0800 2005 204183 0 Jennifer L 6 204201 Farmers markets, CSA boxes, Chinatown. I think even Trader Joe's has nicer produce than Safeway. Sun Dec 18 16:53:02 -0800 2005 204193 0 Robert Lauriston 6 204316 Alameda Natural Grocery Mon Dec 19 16:33:27 -0800 2005 204193 0 Ruth Lafler 6 204329 I try to make it to the Alameda farmer's market every Tuesday morning on Webster, as well as shop at the Alameda Natural Grocery store. You can also try Paul's Produce on Central and Oak. Mon Dec 19 17:44:35 -0800 2005 204193 0 No.19 3 204217 Just read a story that Albertson's may close a number of their stores in a major restructuring. Agree with you that they're pretty depressing. Sun Dec 18 19:19:48 -0800 2005 204120 0 RichardT 4 204287 Actually, Albertson's is on the block. According to this article, it looks like a price-cutting Minnesota supermarket chain is going to buy them: Link: http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5787585.html Mon Dec 19 12:41:30 -0800 2005 204217 0 Nancy Berry 3 204226 Not all Albertsons locations in the Bay Area suck. They seem to fall into two categories: * the new ones, which are usually bigger and contain Stabucks, BofA, and Savon pharmacies. There's one in El Cerrito Plaza, and I've seen others in Pleasant Hill and Hayward. These are almost as nice as Upscale Safeway and better than Regular Safeway. * the older ones, which are usually smaller and often in much worse shape, like the one in Rockridge. A few of these still have the same interior decor as the old Lucky's chain: these are clearly the ones Albertson's has given up for dead. Sun Dec 18 21:10:49 -0800 2005 204120 0 Agent 510 4 204234 There are actually a couple more categories: there are the newer (or newly remodelled) midsize ones in semi-suburban neighborhoods (the ones at Marina Village in Alameda and the one in Montclair come to mind). Not upscale, but not decrepit, either. Then there's another category, which I would call a "workhorse" Albertson's, like the newish one in Fruitvale. It's a big Albertson's/Savon but it's very working class, as befits the neighborhood (it has a truly impressive selection of tortillas). All these stores seem to be thriving, but I think you're right that some of the smaller neighborhood ones are going to fade away. Sun Dec 18 22:14:09 -0800 2005 204226 0 Ruth Lafler 5 204256 I agree with all those categories of Alberton's. Except for the really downscale, old Albertson's these are good workhorse markets. Except for the super duper Safeway's, they have the most interesting wine selection of the standard supermarkets. However, their prices have been slowly creeping up which could hurt them. The San Pablo Albertson's is actually more expensive for many things that the San Pablo Raley's which has better quality. Either that or Raley's has been dropping prices. They have a nice wine selection as well, but not as good as Albertson's. Mon Dec 19 02:51:24 -0800 2005 204234 0 rworange 6 204302 I gave up on the San Pablo Albertsons, they had the absolute worst cashier staffing in the bay area. It used to be on my way home so I'd stop in between 5-6pm. There were never more than 2 checkers, and they didn't seem able to keep more than 2 out of 4 self checks working at any time (usually only 1). The lines were unbelievable and many times I just walked out. Raley's has in fact lowered a lot of prices and in many ways has a better selection than other markets. Mon Dec 19 14:38:17 -0800 2005 204256 0 Larry 7 204304 Yeah, those self-check Albertson's thingies really, really turn me off ... to the comical effect where I rant in the store telling the cashiers this is their job at stake, have their unions protest this. That Albertson's does have a 50/50 ratio of atrocious service, especially in off hours. Either there are excellent people or the dregs. It makes for an unpleasant experience not knowing what to expect when something is needed or there is a question. The Raley's experience is better and the food, especially the deli is better. I still think the Raley's rotisarrie chicken is up there with the best. In fact, it beat the Berkeley Bowl chicken we had yesterday. The Bowl chicken is a higher quality bird, but I think they brine the thing and it was horribly salty for my tastes. Mon Dec 19 14:56:57 -0800 2005 204302 0 rworange 8 204339 Gee...I really dig the self-check. It took about two awkward episodes to get in the groove, but now I fly through there. Same at Home Depot. Call me simple, but self-check makes me feel a little more in control of the grocery ordeal. Mon Dec 19 18:29:22 -0800 2005 204304 0 Shep 9 204344 I guess it depends on what you're buying. But self-check at Home Depot is really convenient when you only have a couple of items an all the other registers are three deep in people buying enough to build a small house, and I guess the same holds true for groceries. Mon Dec 19 18:49:08 -0800 2005 204339 0 Ruth Lafler 1 204178 I find the whole reinventing Safeway phenomenon hilarious. There really is no place for the old Safeway in our current economy. Half the population want "gourmet" or "natural" so they go to Whole Foods, Andronicos or Trader Joes. The other half wants cheap so they go to Costco or Wal Mart. The only poeple left shopping at Safeway are poor people who don't have a car, not nearly the clientelle they need to stay in business. So they've pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into advertising and remodeling in an attempt to sell themselves as a Whole Foods for the frugal. Very similar to what happened with Ralphs "Fresh Fare" in SoCal 6 or 7 years ago. As with Ralphs, Safeway is pumping funding into a few, select markets and neglecting those in more "undesirable" neighberhoods. Time will tell if this strategy works. I think they'll be closing down stores and on the verge of going bankrupt within the next decade. The money they loose from liquor theft sure wont help things. Sun Dec 18 14:10:56 -0800 2005 204102 0 Morton the Mousse 2 204203 Is there really no place for the two major supermarket chains (Safeway and Albertson's) in the Bay Area? It's true that they can't really compete with the fancier places, but I'd think they have an edge over Costco and Wal-Mart. Costco charges a membership fee and too much of its stuff is in bulk sizes only. Wal-Mart has a limited selection of non-perishable grocery items (at least if it's not a Supercenter). And most importantly, both are usually further away than the nearest S or A. When I shop at either S or A, it doesn't appear to me that the crowd is just poor people without cars. It's definitely true that margins are razor-thin in the supermarket industry, so it's not smooth sailing for S and A, but I'd miss them if they fell off the Bay Area map. Sun Dec 18 17:09:56 -0800 2005 204178 0 Agent 510 2 204219 I disagree. The percentage of people who do the majority of their food shopping at places like Whole Foods is relatively small. Trader Joe's and Costco don't carry full product lines and have other limitations. WalMart isn't that established in the area (at least not yet) -- I'm not even sure the Oakland WalMart carries groceries (I know the one in San Leandro doesn't). I suspect my housemate -- a single mother of modest means -- is much more typical in her shopping patterns, and she does the majority of her shopping at Safeway. Stores like this one are trying to exploit a couple of different markets they were losing: prepared foods to bring back the people who rarely cook at home and thus don't buy raw ingredients, and the more upscale "gourmet" shopper (i.e. people like me who set foot in Safeway only reluctantly and only a few times a year). In both cases, the products these shoppers buy have a higher profit margin and increase the dollar amount spent by each shopper, thus increasing profitability even if the shopper base decreases or remains stable. At least, I'm guessing that's what their market analysts projected when they embarked on this strategy. Sun Dec 18 19:30:45 -0800 2005 204178 0 Ruth Lafler 3 204221 Our Asian friend calls Whole Food, "Whole Paycheck" just because of what they charge. I agree, not a big percentage of people shop there, especially around here where they really isn't one that near by. I won't purchase fruit or produce at Costco as there are only two of us so half of it ends up getting tossed for spoilage. We are lucky in Alameda to have two meat markets (really 3) where we can purchase fresh or custom cut meats and poultry. The Market Place grocery has all organic if that's what you want including lots of bulk items. The Safeway will do just fine and the Alberson's will disappear. From the looks of the crowds over the opening weekend, if they keep just half of those people it'll be a success. Sun Dec 18 20:10:11 -0800 2005 204219 0 Monty 3 204257 I agree with Ruth and think Safeway is in no danger. On top of everything else, Safeway delivers ... literally ... with online shopping. Although it doesn't have the cachet of the dear departed Webvan, it can be handy. With the upscaling of Safeways, it could bring back some of the upscale shoppers. Even when I was a regular at Whole Foods, I never could shop exclusively there. It is poor in terms of staples, you have to buy all those damn earth-friendly off products. I'm sorry, my cat just will not use their enviromentally friendly cat litter ... and that makes all of us unhappy ... me yelling at the cat and the cat being yelled at and glowering at me for buying the junk in the first place. Whole Foods is just too pricy too. Their quality is not as good as the farmers markets. Even when I lived in SF, I'd rarely buy the fruit which is kind of substandard for the prices. Nice deli, though. Although the Bay Area has a wealth of options, even in other parts of the country there are the small quality supermarkets in the style of Andronico's where the items compete with Whole Foods and they offer a full line of products ... you can buy a box of Tide laundry detergent. And I appoligize to all those many Whole Food clerks who bore the brunt of my wrath when I've been tired and discovered I couldn't do all my shopping at Whole Foods because they just don't carry the standard staples. In the East Bay, there are just too many cheaper, better places in comparison to Whole Foods. Poor people go to Food4less, not WalMart which doesn't carry a full grocery line. For poor people, Safeway is their Whole Paycheck ... the upscale market. They'd go to Albertson's first. However, if WalMart ever got serious about the grocery part, it would blow alot of supermarkets out of the water. I was at Wal Mart this morning (I refuse to apoligize). Anyway, cruising the grocery aisle, the prices are really jawdropping low. It is not even fair competition ... even with coupons ... even with Cala Food/Bell double coupons, some of those prices are beyond low. For example, 18 oz Quaker Oatmeal was $1.48. At best, Albertson's will have this OCCASIONALLY on sale at $2. This wasn't even on sale at Wal-Mart. Wet-wipes were $1.75 ... best price on sale has been $2.50. TJ's ... you have to be a fan and put up with the changing product line ... and you can't buy everything there. The paper goods are dismal. Costco ... only if you want boxes of cereal bigger than the trunck of your car an are willing to pay the market for the priviledge of shopping there. I have to think somewhere along the line, that's going to get old. I would say Whole Foods is the most threatened. If Safeway draws some of their crowd by not only offering higher quality goods in addition to a full product line, that could be a death knell for Whole Foods unless they reinvent themselves. Mon Dec 19 03:16:22 -0800 2005 204219 0 rworange 2 204278 "The only poeple (sic) left shopping at Safeway are poor people who don't have a car" What a ludicrous comment. I'll remember it the next time I'm trying to find a parking space amongst the Mercedes and Range Rovers at the Marina Safeway. Mon Dec 19 12:11:47 -0800 2005 204178 0 JonesWineNo1 3 204355 If Safeway corporate could find a way to turn all of their stores into the Marina Safeway, always packed even thought the layout is bad, people just cruising the aisles, the reputation as a place to meet people, my guess is they would have leapt at that rather than the makeover :) That said, my Diamond Heights Safeway just remodeled and the layout has yet to start to make sense to me. Safewy is my third grocery store stop, Trader Joe's for the bulk of it, produce store for the fruits and veggies and Safeway for whatever I can't get at the first two or items where I am so brand loyal that even a higher quality product can't sway me (Skippy Touch o' Honey Peanut Butter, I'm looking at you) Mon Dec 19 19:23:00 -0800 2005 204278 0 Meredith 2 204295 If Safeway didn't feel threatened by new trends in the shopping industry they wouldn't have spent over $100 million revamping their image. I've attached an article from a few months back in which the Safeway CEO acknowledges shifts in shopping patterns and mentions Wal Mart by name as part of the impetus for these changes. Of course CostCo and Whole Foods have not taken all of Safeway's business, but changing trends in shopping patterns have had a significant negative impact on markets like Safeway. 10 years ago, almost everyone shopped at their neighborhood supermarket. Today, it is very common for shoppers to go to a discount mega market or a specialty gourmet market. They may still buy some groceries at their neighborhood Safeway, but they are buying some of their groceries elsewhere. Of course, my statement about poor people without cars was not meant to be taken literally; obviously, if that was the case Safeway wouldn't need a parking lot. Rather, I was referencing general trends in shopping demographics. The explosion in the "organics/natural/gourmet" movement has led many upper-middle and upper class consumers, particularly in the Bay Area, to buy at least a portion of their groceries at Andronicos/Whole Foods/Berkeley Bowl, etc. The explosion in the discount/mega market industry has led many middle to lower class consumers to buy a portion of their groceries at WalMart/Costco/Food4Less, etc. This leaves a shrinking demographic that is doing their shopping *exclusively* at the local supermarket. Exclusive Safeway shoppers are *mostly* people who are too frugal or apathetic to shop "gourmet" and/or lack the time and mobility to shop "discount". This translates to lower sales, and lower profits, for Safeway. Safeway knows they can't compete with the bulk discounters, so they're trying to get in on the gourmet market, selling themselves as an affordable Whole Foods. It just might work as Whole Foods is an awful rip-off. Regardless, there is no question that these changes in the way we shop are the impetus for the changes at Safeway. BTW, am I the only person who thinks the Safeway "Life" ad campaign is a complete ripoff of Kaiser Permanente's "Thrive" campaign? Link: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/06/BUG08C3JJN14.DTL&type=business Mon Dec 19 13:36:33 -0800 2005 204178 0 Morton the Mousse 3 204301 Never said that trends don't affect decisions being made by markets, but don't agree with other statements. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/302794#1697848 Mon Dec 19 14:35:03 -0800 2005 204295 0 rworange 1 204262 Is there any way to find out which Safeways in SF are going to be upgraded? Mon Dec 19 08:48:25 -0800 2005 204102 0 KathyR 1 204268 I have been in the new store twice and know that I have to get used to the different layout. Right now, signage seems poor and layout confusing. What I noticed was odd things, like the canned beans are not with the canned vegetables, the barilla pasta selection was really limited in selection and shelf space. The common thing that I notice in every Safeway is the drowned produce underneath the waterfalls. I still prefer the Safeway on Bay Farm. I do think it is smart of Safeway to upgrade and woo customers before the Nob Hill Foods opens at the foot of Broadway. Then we will have a plethora of choices and market economics will be the classic decider of who stays and goes... I am also curious as to why the moderators of the board have let this non restaurant post run so long without moving it to a different board? Mon Dec 19 11:20:54 -0800 2005 204102 0 Chilton 2 204279 I thought the other board is called "Chowhound's Not About Food Message Board". Does this thread has to be about restaurant? And can't discuss about food in any other store in our area? Maybe we should have a thread called "Only About Restaurant Food" Mon Dec 19 12:12:03 -0800 2005 204268 0 Jennifer L 3 204286 Very few of the replies I read talked about the food availabe at Safeway, almost all talked about design, market placement, competitors etc. Maybe I read the site wrong; and if I do, I apologise. I thought the board was about expressing opinions of the quality and availability of food items prepared by others to be consumed by a purchaser. I think of grocery stores as places to buy ingredients to do my own cooking. Mon Dec 19 12:40:28 -0800 2005 204279 0 Chilton 1 2158639 Food? There is food???? at Safeway?????? Where did you see this? Not in the squashed and smashed "fresh food" overpriced section? You don't eat TV dinners do you?? That isn't food. Safeway is a nightmare, nothing good to eat in the place. And if there was you couldn't find it without a GPS locater and a wilderness guide to get you through all the prepared crap that clogs their shelves. TJ's doesn't have everything, but what it does have is real food. I have been in the new Safeway twice, starving would seem to be a better experience.... The Albertsons on the other side of the island used to be better by far, but it is going rapidly down hill since the albertsons sell off. Shame, don't relish having to go to Bizerkly whole paychecks, or Bizerkley bowl to go grocery shopping. Guy Sat Jan 06 02:14:26 -0800 2007 204102 64496 AikiGuy