Differences between the Cambridge and Boston dining scenes

[MC Slim JB]

That's probably worth its own thread: "differences between the Cambridge and Boston dining scenes." I imagine to someone from outside of Rt 128, they're of a piece.

I suppose Boston has the luxury steakhouses, more top-tier restaurants, and Chinatown. What does Cambridge have that is utterly unique to that side of the river? Let's see: Porter Exchange's Japanese-heavy food court. Superior North African (Baraka). Most of the Portuguese and Afghani food. Perhaps a slight edge on Indian (debatable). Maybe an edge for its size in small, artisanal, chef-driven, mid-high fine dining places (Salts, Craigie Street, T.W. Food, Oleana, OM), also debatable. The origin point and training ground for most of the best bartenders in town (starting with the B-Side).

What else, proud Cantabridgians?

[BostonZest]

What a great conversation!

I will add thoughts that came to me as I read this discussion. For all the years we have lived in the Back Bay, most of our go-to places for a meal when we are tired or busy or need a break, and need to feel welcome and appreciated, have been in Cambridge. There have only been a couple of exceptions.

The exceptions were Hamersley's for a few years, Cafe Louis and the Butcher Shop but all those were based on people we knew as well as the food.

When we lived in Rhode Island, we had a home at the bar at Al Forno for as long as we could remember. We often said that Al Forno was the only thing we missed about Providence.

When George and Joanne took over Cafe Louis, we headed there like homing pigeons. And, that became where we went for the people who worked there, Matt and Paul and Brick and Chris and Sean and Chef David. When they redid it and most of the staff left, we did too.

And, the Blue Room was our home base for many years. A change in our schedules has made that harder to walk in and grab a seat at the bar, but we still love the place, and the people attached to it.

These days we find ourselves turning to Central Kitchen and Rendezvous to fill that space in our lives. We were at Central last night for a quick protein boost with mussels, oysters, shrimp and cheese. (They were pouring a fantastic 2006 Arona Sauvignon blanc from Marlborough by the glass.)

But, a final thought from those who sit at the bar. The other customers, the intelligent conversation, the lack of a scene of posers and "fashionistas" is a BIG plus. And, no pounding rock, rap or techno music to ruin the night.

[sailormouth]

I live in Boston (Dot, actually) and work in Cambridge and, for me, the defining difference is the availability of very good, affordable lunches in Cambridge that Boston simply doesn't offer on a scale compared to the number of workers. I'd theorize it's a direct result of the types of places people work in Cambridge, the universities and research centers etc. . .that take a more, shall we say, French outlook on the lunch "hour."

After 5pm I see very little defining differences between the two, especially during the week. The things Slim mentioned in the original post to me, for the most part, don't define much of a difference except between downtown and a neighborhood, rather than a tale of two cities. I guess the question I would ask is "would the Camrbridge/Somerville restaurants work in Boston, given a reprieve on our paucity of liquor licenses and active neighborhood associations?" I think they almost all would, especially those focused on the dinner crowd.

[Panini Guy]

Haven't been to Cambridge in about five years, but was reading this thread to see how the Forest Cafe was doing... and didn't see it mentioned once. Did they fall off the map? Been around too long to be of interest? Or did the food suddenly go downhill? I've always thought of TFC as the best Mexican restaurant in New England since the early 80s, especially when it came to seafood and sauces. Even thought the ambience and design has been, well... lacking, since day one.

[aventinus]

I've been there between 10 and 20 times I'd say. I live a few blocks away. The restaurant is inconsistent. There are some things that always suck to me. The salsa tastes to me like tomato paste from a can, and it's not even complementary. The rice and beans are bland and almost pointless. The guacamole tastes "off"--I don't know why--but I just know if I blended up some good avocados, lime, and salt it would taste better. Fish is always overcooked and/or not-fresh tasting.

There are some reliably good things. The mole enchiladas are always on. Elotes (sauteed green beans) and the appetizer of shrimp sauteed in garlic and olive oil are dependable.

Then there's the rest of the menu, and you really never know. You can get something great (delicious, exceptional mashed potatoes) complementing something crappy (a tough swordfish steak with the life sapped from it).

Obviously there's something worthwhile about it given how often I've eaten there. Lunch can be an extremely good value. Frankly, I think it may be my favorite of the restaurants in the immediately vicinity, with the possible exception of Temple Bar.

[triple creme]

I live right in the neighborhood too, and often end up eating at the Forest Cafe bar to watch a Sox game. As aventinus said, mole enchiladas and elotes are quite good. And occasionally there's a special that's even better. But more often than not I go there because it's nearby and convenient, and I leave underwhelmed.

The only thing I've had at Temple Bar that I would recommend is the burger/fries. Wonder what I'm missing! I'm open to persuasion.

West Side Lounge is right next door, and if you haven't been there in a while, give it another try. The duck and cellophane noodle dish they have on the menu right now is really light and delectable. Damn fine burgers and frites with luscious aioli. Good linguini carbonara.

[triple creme]

Just got back from Japanese lunch at the Porter Exchange Building. Does Boston proper have anything resembling that (cheap, authentic, varied within one cuisine region)? I had planned to go to Cafe Mami for their excellent chicken katsu curry, but they were too crowded as usual. So I went to Tampopo for their superb age dashi tofu, vegetable tempura, and salad. Oh, the salad dressing! I would eat my own hand if it were slathered in that dressing.

[limster]

The closet to that I can think of is the Super88 food court in Allston, but that's a variety of Asian cuisines. Ken's ramen, which is next to the food court, serves very good ramen.

[HopeRI]

For me, there is something about the Forest Cafe that transcends the food (silly to write that on a food-centric board? Oh well...). Cantabridgian characters fill the bar (we met a young, soulful and eloquent poet a couple of times in there, bought his round of drinks he shouldn't have been drinking in the first place - trying to kick the habit - which was payment for the scintillating conversation we had with him both times - he was truly touched by the simple gesture). Hey, you got the audio for the Sox, and the bartenders are always friendly as hell. The food for me, might be an afterthought (although I do love the kitchen quesasadillas and the aforementioned elotes), but it's the people who work and drink at the FC that keep bringing me back.

[musicman]

TFC is pretty good, but best Mexican in NE? Have you tried El Sarape in Weymouth? As a former resident of California, where the Mexican is way more Mexican than on the East Coast, I'd put El Sarape up there as easily the best I've had in these parts. (But I digress from the Boston v Cambridge discussion.)

[Panini Guy]

It was. That's why I asked about it's omission in this thread in the first place.

I first went to TFC in 1980 when there was CIA talent in the kitchen and the bar was actually a separate (but co-joined) operation. I've been there perhaps 20 times since. I recall the fish and pork specials being uniformly wonderful and being treated to things like cilantro sauce over halibut with jicama, prawns in chipotle, and pork and chicken in various adobos and pipians that nobody in the Northeast was doing 25 years ago. Every time I passed through Boston I made it a point to visit.

As I said in my query, I haven't been to Cambridge in FIVE years. I had the opportunity to take a job in Quincy and explored the whole area from 1999-2002 and there was nothing then that beat TFC. No, I've never been to El Sarape, but I'd looked at the menus of whatever was around then and they were all essentially combo plate places of no interest.

For the record, you make a mistake assuming all East Coasters (or ex-East Coasters in my case) are totally ignorant of what Mexican food should be.. I lived in Mexico City for a year and ate out every single day. I think we can agree that Mexico City is a bit more Mexican than California, ¿verdad?. Besides, I've found while SoCal offers lots of options for things in tortillas, for more upscale and cuisine representative of Mexico's Southern and Eastern states, Chicago has better overall offerings. Then again, that's just my opinion from moving around alot.

I'm sorry to hear TFC has dumbed down its menu with the inclusion of more commonplace tacos and burritos and that the quality seems to have slipped.

[Dr.Jimbob]

Northern Chinese cookery at Qingdao Garden, and superior jiaozi (Peking ravioli) between Qingdao Garden and MuLan. You won't find a decent northern Chinese place in any of New York (or at least I've asked on the NY boards when I've been in town and haven't gotten an answer), much less Boston.

I'd question the claim about Sichuan cookery, maintaining as I have in the past that Brookline still trumps everybody with Sichuan Garden.

Assuming that Somerville border places count, and as mentioned above, between Formaggio's, Capone's and the Wine and Cheese Cask, superior cheese shops. Better burgers between R.F. O'S's, Gargoyle's and Bartley's. Better booze shops between Mall Discount Liquors and Downtown Wine & Spirits. And of course ice cream as noted already.

Sadly agreed about the general level of underachievement in Harvard Square at least (can't really speak to the Central Square joints).

[aventinus]

Well for starters, Brookline isn't Boston proper. I've only been to Sichuan Garden once, but I was disappointed. It was around 3 pm and I think they just weren't on their game. One dish, bean curd skin with mushrooms, actually had ice in it. It was like chewing into a popsicle. I mentioned to this to the waiter; he brought it to the kitchen and nuked it; needless to say it wasn't quite right. The rest of the food wasn't this flawed but was hardly exemplary. I'm sure the place is as good as people say, but I can't bring myself to make a special trip back to Brookline Village to prove it.

[limster]

I've been making trips to Framingham's Sichuan Gourmet after a rather lacklustre meal at Sichuan Garden a while ago. Will probably check back in one of these days, but while some of the better meals I've had there were good, it was never even close to New Taste of Asia in terms of technique and calibration of flavours.

[Dr.Jimbob]

Several replies to several subthreads:

To aventinus: thank you I am aware that Brookline is a separate city. Which also trumps Cambridge for bakeries with the presence of Clear Flour, but that's a different thread. I'm sorry that you and limster had lackluster experiences at Sichuan Garden, for similar reasons I won't go back to Wang's in Somerville (waterlogged dumplings with ruptured skins, I still shudder when I think about it). However, each of the last five or six trips I've made to Sichuan Garden has been very good to spectacular, and as I say, with additional layers of depth and complexity to the flavor over any of the North-of-the-Charles alternatives that I've seen to date (though I have yet to make it to Fuloon in Malden). I'm also well aware of iimster's preference for Sichuan Gourmet; alanr, a friend of mine who is often with me on the trips to Sichuan Garden, finally made it out to Framingham and was underwhelmed, so I'm not salivating at the prospect of a 50 mile round trip.

Re the Forest Cafe: I can't claim any authority on what decent Mexican food tastes like, have been to the Forest Cafe a few times and wasn't blown away.

Re sailormouth and the lack of cheap lunch places downtown: I don't know if these count as cheap, but I've been a big fan in the past of Panificio on Charles Street, Sam La Grassa's and the Boston Kebab House donwtown and a variety of places in Chinatown. Any of those are comparable in price for lunch to something like Dave's Fresh Pasta or Darwin's on the Left Bank.

Re the Cambridge scene: the thought has occurred to me that it's the university scene in Cambridge, with a large number of students who come from overseas to study here and a large number of people trained to become elitist snobs in one way or the other (myself included) that help to create a lot of the chow scene in the Boston area to begin with.

[Bob Dobalina]

Two words: Diversity and value.

[Panini Guy]

I just have to tell you, as an owner of Headquarters on vinyl going on 40 years, I get a kick out of your name.

[Dizzied]

ha - me too, except it gets stuck in my head for hours after I read a posting...and now back to chow...

[Bob Dobalina]

HA! I only know the rap song by Del Tha Funkee Homosapien. Just continues to make the point by MC Slim that chowhounds are a diverse bunch.

[aventinus]

Formaggio Kitchen > South End Formaggio. To me FK is the pinnacle of food in the area. I was thinking today that if they had occupied that space left by the natural foods store that used to be across from Cambridge Common, my life here would have been much better.
I will remember Helmand fondly for very good food at more than reasonable prices.
Simon's serves possibly the best coffee and espresso in America. Nothing in Boston is close to this good. (I think the espresso in the North End is terrible generally and hardly resembles espresso in Italy.)
On good nights (or when I ordered well or was in a good mood), Tamarind Bay was perhaps the most outstanding Indian I've ever had.
Toscanini's Central Square. Very cool flavors, very rich ice cream.
Burdick's. Consistent high quality.

That's about it for me. I found Cambridge's mid-range ($16-$22 an entree) dining options fair to awful, always disappointing. The higher-end places seem on par with what Boston has to offer.

If you add in neighboring cities (e.g., Cambridge and Somerville seem to blur), or at least restaurants right on the borderline, I think "greater Cambridge" has better Szechuan than Boston. As inconsistent as it was, Zoe's opened my eyes to the greatness of Szechuan cooking. Szechuan Bay really deserves more plaudits. And Shangri La--probably my favorite Chinese in the area.

Oh and I forgot Tibetan. Rangzen is one of those Chowhound forgotten restaurants. I tend to forget about it too because Central is a hike for me. On some days, both for lunch buffet and dinner, the food was truly excellent. Sometimes it was just kinda OK. But I don't think Boston has a Tibetan restaurant.at all, so Cambridge wins.

[Harp00n]

You're on a very slippery slope with that one MC, as I'm sure you already know. Hounds will start out with "Hey, what about Arlington or Waltham?" Not that a separate post for Cambridge wouldn't still have that same "mission creep".

[MC Slim JB]

I guess I'm making the argument that the Cambridge and Boston restaurant scenes are so geographically close, and so insufficiently differentiated, that they deserve to be lumped together when discussing "Boston proper". I'm open to the idea that Cambridge deserves recognition for its uniqueness, but so far I see only a handful of distinctions that support that notion.

[katielp]

It's possible that I just don't get into Boston "proper" often enough, but the main difference that I've found between the two sides of the river is not so much in terms of the food... it's the atmosphere and scene, and the feeling of occasion. I find Cambridge dining more mellow--even the best places (Oleana, Craigie St etc) have a slightly shabby vibe. That's to say, there's nowhere in Cambridge I wouldn't go for dinner in jeans. Less expense accounting may be a part of this.

I do also think that we may have better Indian food--as well as much more of it per capita. With Tamarind Bay, Kebab Factory and Punjabi Dhaba I feel happy that my Indian road map--high to low--is amply covered.

Cambridge may also have better coffee, or at least a higher concentration of places where good coffee can be had and more locally owned coffee houses (Simon's, Oxford Spa, Toscanini's, 1369, Mariposa, Burdick's...).

[triple creme]

You took the words right out of my fingertips.

When I dine at an upscale Boston place I get the sense that I'm in New York, or NYC wannabe. I feel the need to dress better -- i.e., not academic/ casual.

In some cases I have to admit the food is better in Boston (although the cosmopolitans are too icky sweet -- enough with the triple sec).

[MC Slim JB]

Thanks, katilp, I think you put your finger on one thing I've long noticed as different on either side of the river: as a rule, for good or ill, patrons of Cambridge restaurants don't seem as interested in getting dressed up, regardless of the level of the food.

I also tend to agree about the coffee issue, especially if you add Somerville to the Cambridge side of the argument (specifically, True Grounds). Those fanatics put the folks on the south side of the Charles to shame.

[pollystyrene]

I'm hopping on katie's bandwagon, too. The earthy vibe, the cozier scale (and being able to stand in one spot and choose from a wide variety within eyeshot as a result), the coffee, TOSCANINI'S. There's a dearth of great desserts at restaurants, and if you don't happen to be dining in the North End, you're out of luck for sweet spots. Unless, of course you're on the other side of the river in Tosacanini-land.

[katielp]

Just to add one other thought: what would the age demographic of Boston vs. Cambridge diners look like? In Cambridge there seems to be a dearth of diners in their late twenties/ 30s (ie the age bracket just above mine--post graduate school, pre tenure...!). So the dining scene perhaps becomes skewed to college age preferences, and sometimes wallets (all that ice cream), and to the settled academic/casual dressing population mentioned by triple creme. Maybe this demographic likes small, chef owned European restaurants with very good consistent cooking and a focus on fresh ingredients (Craigie St, Oleana, Rendezvous, Harvest) more than risk-taking or glitzier larger venues (OM?)?

Cambridge may also have better grocery shopping in general--we have our nice big Trader Joe's (>nasty basement on Boylston), the River St Whole foods, Christina's for spices, Shalimar in central square, the New Deal fish market in East Cambridge, a few decent Japanese grocery stores, FK (obviously!), the Wine and Cheese cask, Iggy's...

[hiddenboston]

--Two Afghani restaurants (Helmand and Ali Baba)

--A relatively short stretch of road (Mass. Ave. in North Cambridge) that has restaurants offering the following cuisines: Syrian, Indian, Afghani, Thai, Greek, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Cambodian

--Possibly the best Cubano in the Boston area (Chez Henri)

--Restaurants that locals like and no one else seems to know about (Trattoria Pulcinella, Ortanique, Izzy's, Desfina, Court House Seafood)

I think you're right--this is probably a topic for a separate thread...

[MC Slim JB]

Okay, but with the exception of Afghani, which I noted, I'd say all of these are debatable. Allston Village doesn't have that exact mix of cuisines, but it might be said to have superior diversity of nice-priced "ethnic" (forgive the term) restaurants in a tiny footprint; I love the Chez Henri Cubano, but one could argue it's too non-traditional and expensive for "best" stature; plenty of Boston neighborhoods have worthy but mostly-local-patrons restaurants (e.g., Rozzie, Eastie, Dot).

Another advantage for Cambridge: Chez Henri probably has the best Cuban cocktails on either side of the river.

[hiddenboston]

I wasn't including Boston neighborhoods, but yes, there are many local favorites in those sections of town, as well as JP, Brighton, West Roxbury, and so on. (I always think of Boston proper as the part of Boston on the "peninsula"--North End, Beacon Hill, parts of Back Bay and South End, Chinatown, downtown, etc.--but that's another discussion for another day, I guess.)

[aventinus]

Three years in Cambridge has been the most disappointing culinary experience in my life, and I'm so glad it's over. It's not that there's nothing good (Formaggio Kitchen is amazing). It's that the average quality is bad, especially for the price. Allston and Brookline have way superior average quality in my opinion.

[Luther]

Agreed. Central Square is a great example of this. Yes, there is Chinese, Thai, Indian, Ethiopian, Pizza, etc. But none of it is very good, even for "neighborhood places." If I want ethnic food, I'll probably go to Allston or Chinatown or Somerville. Allston and North Cambridge have the same sort of spread of ethnic cheap eats, but the quality is high.

[jjbourgeois]

Amen to Formaggio Kitchen! I can not imagine life without them. I go at least 3-4 times a month. As for restaurants in Cambridge, most are pretty mediocre. I will admit I do enjoy Harvest and Noir for snacks. Noir has a great menu for those that don't want a full meal, but enjoy snacking. Harvest's bar menu is good and it's updated fairly frequently.

[bear]

Hiddenboston, not to mention the sweet, humble Lebanese offerings of Cafe Barada in North Cambridge.

[hiddenboston]

Actually, I had included Cafe Barada in my list, referring to their their Syrian cuisine, but yes, it's really both Lebanese and Syrian. Thanks for the clarification on that. I do love that place! Can't wait to get back (it has been awhile).