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Is This Common? [Moved from Mid-Atlantic board]

j
jsfein Jul 13, 2007 11:10 AM

I passed a Central Jersey restaurant occasionally mentioned on this board during lunch time that had its bread delivery sitting on its front steps in open brown paper bags. The restaurant parking lot was empty (dinner service only) and it didn't appear that anyone was around. I have no idea how long the bread had been sitting out in the open and also no idea how long it would be before someone would bring the bread indoors. It doesn't take much imagination to consider what could happen to the bread while sitting around outdoors unattended. Is this a common practice?

  1. sivyaleah Jul 13, 2007 11:17 AM

    This is very common in lots of restaurants all over the world. It means the bread is fresh, a good thing. I wouldn't worry about it. Doubtful anyone is going to tamper with it. Most likely they time it so that it will be brought in in a timely manner - bread is baked daily, so it certainly wasn't delivered the day before. Worst thing that could happen is someone would steal it - but since it's still out there - and this is what thousands of restaurants do on a daily basis, I bet this isn't much of an issue.

    1. b
      bowmore36 Jul 13, 2007 11:18 AM

      Common??? not exactly. Bread deliveries are often very early in the morning. More often, the bread companies will have access to a secure location(free of rats and humans) that they have pre-arranged with the restaurant. The front steps is never an inconspicuos place and agreed it's not a great indication of cleanliness. I'm sure a manager or owner would want to know about that. It is something that is, to a certain extent, out of their control. However, they certainly would not want that as a reflection of their restaurant.

      1. MMRuth Jul 13, 2007 12:30 PM

        I live in Manhattan within a block of about 6 restaurants and a number of markets, and when I walk the dog at 5:30 am, I see bags of bread/bagels/etc. leaned up against most of the places. I'm always amazed that no one seems to steal anything, etc., and fortunately have not seen any critters near same (other than my own critter).

        1. s
          soupkitten Jul 13, 2007 07:02 PM

          our bakers, like lots of artisan bakers, deliver, or have our bread for pickup, in open-topped paper bags. this is because the bread generally goes into the bag-- off of a cooling rack-- still warm. if you were to put this still-warm bread into a sealed plastic bag or other type of container there will be condensation and your beautiful artisan crust would become mushy, sodden, or rubbery.

          note that this is how bread is sold in europe-- in paper bags or open baskets that don't cover the bread all the way. the motivation is to allow airflow, and to keep the quality of the baked goods and the integrity of the artisan crust intact, rather than to put an impermeable petrochemical shell around the loaf. americans with their hangups often are appalled at the "unsanitary" packaging of bread in europe despite the fact that many bakeries over there have operated for upwards of 5 centuries with no casualties reported.

          note that baked goods, starting with bread, are legally different than other foodstuffs, such as meat. it is in most cases legal to drive a bakery truck across state lines with intent to sell the bread/cookies/other baked goods. not legal to drive a load of ham sandwiches across state lines with intent to sell. i believe that the penalty for crossing state lines intending to sell a dozen sandwiches is more serious than that of transporting marijuana across state lines with intent to sell (in my area). baked goods are in most cases considered non-potentially hazardous foodstuffs, hence the legal distinction.

          to answer your question, yes lots of bakers deliver their product in open paper bags. i don't like the idea of bread sitting on a doorstep waiting for a pooch to pee on it or a squirrel to sample a roll, so one of us picks it up from (inside) the bakery each day.

          1. n
            nathanac Jul 13, 2007 07:43 PM

            It is common for bread to be delivered in open paper bags due to moisture control. The timing seems odd to me. In my area (VA), it is common to see bread sitting out in the open outside only when it is an offering to the poor or whatever. It generally is a day old and would be thrown away anyway.

            1. m
              MikeG Jul 15, 2007 04:14 AM

              "It doesn't take much imagination to consider what could happen to the bread while sitting around outdoors unattended."

              I have a pretty good imagination and can't think of a thing I'd * seriously * worry about in your scenario. Al Qaeda hits Vito's Pizza? Disgruntled former employee obtains botulism toxin and poisons the bread? Dogs peeing on the bag? What, realistically speaking, could happen that wouldn't be obvious to the restaurant before they did any more than open the bag?

              2 Replies
              1. re: MikeG
                t
                Ted in Central NJ Jul 15, 2007 08:54 AM

                As a matter of fact, I did once observe a dog peeing on a bag of bread that was sitting in front of a little bodega-type establishment before it opened. I would like to think that the bread was discarded, but...Quien Sabe?

                Personally, I do not like this practice of leaving bread in open bags in front (or in back) of an establishment.

                1. re: Ted in Central NJ
                  m
                  MikeG Jul 15, 2007 08:05 PM

                  Would you eat yellow bread that smelled like dog pee even if it were offered to you? I really don't see this being a realistic problem. :)

              2. orangewasabi Jul 15, 2007 10:47 AM

                It's pretty common here in TO also. There must be some genetic rule that everyone knows because no matter how sticky-fingered the neighborhood might be, the bread bags aren't touched. I think even the urban squirrels know to leave it alone.

                1. Karl S Jul 15, 2007 12:56 PM

                  Fear is exaggerated; this is perfectly fine - bread has been sold and delivered that way for centuries. Good bread should not be wrapped up; it should be in open paper or waxed paper bags.

                  1. free sample addict aka Tracy L Jul 15, 2007 04:50 PM

                    It sounds like the person responsible for picking up the bread either forgot or called in sick. I live down the street from a breakfast/lunch place and I periodically find a closed packaged loaf of bread or bagels in my front yard. I guess some bread companies don't close the doors to their trucks either.

                    1. s
                      swsidejim Jul 16, 2007 09:21 AM

                      when I worked in a deli back in the day, we didnt arrive for work until 8 a.m., the bread delivery came around 4 a.m. The bread delivery driver had a key to the front door, and would leave the loaves in the brown paper bags inside the deli, and lock up.

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: swsidejim
                        s
                        soupkitten Jul 16, 2007 09:46 AM

                        that's pretty common for bigger orders, like for a deli that would make a lot of sandwiches. smaller restaurants may not want to risk an extra key to their establishment floating around-- gotta realize that a couple of grocery-sized brown bags of artisan bread is still only 20-30 bucks, wholesale price--if that-- so probably not worth sending an employee to pick it up. baker's hours are opposite those of the employees of dinner establishments, & their deliveries are generally early am, before anyone would show up for work at a restaurant, unless it's a breakfast place.

                        1. re: soupkitten
                          s
                          swsidejim Jul 16, 2007 09:57 AM

                          Our owner didnt like the idea of the bags being left outside, and potentially sabotaged, stolen, or attracting animals. So the spare key solution worked well. Although occasionally we would find a dirty beer mug in the sink that wasnt there the night before when we closed up.

                          1. re: swsidejim
                            MMRuth Jul 16, 2007 11:12 AM

                            In our NYC neighborhood, bread often gets delivered around 5:30 am and alot of the places don't have employees show up until an hour or too later. But I do keep my dog away from the bags, and have never noticed anything illtoward happening to them!

                      2. julietg Jul 16, 2007 05:58 PM

                        I worked in an ice cream parlor/bakery, and arrived at 5am to bake everything for the AM rush. There were three gallon jugs of milk waiting for me outside every morning. Never had a problem with them being stolen.

                        1 Reply
                        1. re: julietg
                          fsd1116 Jul 16, 2007 07:53 PM

                          I also live in NYC and often see bread in paper bags left in the front entrances of restaurants. I often wondered about this practice: open sacks exposed to all of the toxins, pollutants and adulterations of NYC. I guess this must not run afoul of any NYC health code regulations becuause I'm sure the current administration would have insisted on enforcement!

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