419387 Mon Jul 09 11:44:12 -0700 2007 70 35 Beer 0 2732699 I admit it ,I like Lagers. I don't care for creamy wheats or cranberry ales. I just want ice cold lager. Perhaps its years of playing tennis in the hot sun or surfing in tropical locals. But the last thing i want after fun in the sun is a warm yeasty bread in a bottle. So here our my two favorite lagers in the world. #1 Castlemaine XXXX (Queensland, Australia) #2 Steinlager ,big bottle (New Zealand) I would love to hear or any other favorites out there? Mon Jul 09 11:44:12 -0700 2007 11631 Mission 1 2732863 Budvar on a hot day. Mon Jul 09 12:29:18 -0700 2007 2732699 11201 Diana 2 3003606 Is Budvar available in the U.S. ? Thu Oct 04 08:27:30 -0700 2007 2732863 131211 debbieg2210 3 3009128 Yes, but due to a near-century old conflict with Anheuser Busch over ownership of the brand name "Budweiser", the brand is called "Czechvar" in the US http://www.czechvar.com/ (and is now distributed by a new import division of A-B - go figure). Fri Oct 05 15:55:29 -0700 2007 3003606 11059 JessKidden 4 3122072 But Staropramen tastes better, to me anyway. Tue Nov 13 14:11:39 -0800 2007 3009128 13136 Loren3 1 2733826 I admit my tatse changes fairly often, but I suppose the two that always crop back up sooner or later would be Stella Carlsberg (and for a 3rd choice I'd agree with Budvar) Mon Jul 09 16:49:21 -0700 2007 2732699 58434 rob133 1 2734119 Brooklyn Lager is terrific, as is Smuttynose. Mon Jul 09 18:30:16 -0700 2007 2732699 12484 MVNYC 1 2734188 Lager is a pretty broad category which includes a lot of rich malty beers as well (i.e bock, doppelbock, etc). And having said that I wouldn't think that given a choice many of us would reach for a doppelbock or "warm yeasty bread in a bottle" after "fun in the sun" as you put it and definitely not after playing tennis in the hot sun or surfing in tropical local(e)s. As for your selections they could both be considered decent light lagers (and fully appropriate for sweltering, suffocating heat (as would a glass of ice water, but I digress). Lager is originally a Czech-German thing (many still consider them to be the best). I don't know how many from there that you've tried by I would suggest that you do: Spaten Lager Jever Pilsenser Czechvar (or "Budvar" in Europe) Pilsner Urquell Staropramen Lager Stiegl Pils (Austrian) Mon Jul 09 18:51:05 -0700 2007 2732699 26180 Chinon00 1 2734249 If you want your beer ice cold, it is probably best to stick to what you like and not venture into the more flavorful lagers. As was stated elsewhere, there are many styles of lager, not just watery yellow stuff. Marzen, Dunkel, Doppelbock, Hellesbock, Helles, Dortmunder, Pilsner ( roughly what you prefer ), Schwarzbier, and Rauchbier are some others. A Dunkel, Pilsner, Helles, or Schwarzbier would quench my thirst pretty easily. Mon Jul 09 19:09:27 -0700 2007 2732699 79234 hammerhead 2 2734272 Yeah! Gimme a big cold steinie anyday! 4x nah...if aussie better off with Boags from Tasmania...that is an awesome lager beer. Lowenbrau up there too for refreshment. Also the lighter IPAs do the job...smuttynose...lagunitas... Mon Jul 09 19:16:08 -0700 2007 2734249 60980 Scotty100 2 3067426 Augustiner Helles - best lager regardless of category. Unfortunately it's $12 for a 6-pack at my local store. Thu Oct 25 13:47:25 -0700 2007 2734249 119126 famedalupo 3 3068096 Well, break it down for us? What does it taste like? Thu Oct 25 17:45:33 -0700 2007 3067426 26180 Chinon00 4 3068273 All I've found out here is the Augustiner Edelstoff, so I'll comment on that. It's a bit different from the standard Augustiner Helles, which I've yet to find here. Edelstoff is lightly hopped, generously carbonated, somewhat sweet and a delicious cinnamony taste, and clean on the finish. Best of the Munich helles. Global Village Imports LLC distributes it in the US, although it can be hard to find. Thu Oct 25 18:56:53 -0700 2007 3068096 119126 famedalupo 1 2734687 Paulaner Marzen is a personal favorite. Dunno though, it has flavor and stuff. Might not suit you. ;-) Mon Jul 09 21:45:38 -0700 2007 2732699 10809 Josh 1 2734941 One other note. I didn't quite understanding having to "admit" that you like lager (as you stated in the first line of your post). Lager is one of the two fundamental branches of the beer tree (the other being ale) and even your personal favorites shouldn't be derided in this manner (i.e. having to "admit" that you like them). I think that this goes to your present understanding of the term lager. Tue Jul 10 03:13:24 -0700 2007 2732699 26180 Chinon00 1 2735859 "Best Lager beer in the World!" ".. here our my two favorite lagers in the world." Well, I'd say your subject line and your "favorites" are two vastly different concepts. I agree, that lots of comments on these groups make a similar claim (BEST pizza in New England! Best SUB in New Jersey! Best BBQ in the Confederacy!) but I always think when I read such an outlandish comment, "Uh.... and you've tried them all?" Because, until you have -and yeah, I know it's opinion, not fact- but how can you have an opinion of a beer you haven't tasted? - how can you even attempt to make the claim of "world's best"? Me, I'm glad I've never come close to finding the best lager (or ale, ipa, stout, porter, etc.) in the world- I'm having too much of a good time sampling them to stop because I've found "the best". And even tho' I have favorites, beer's cheap enough and varied enough so that I can always grab a different brand or style and find something enjoyable ... Tue Jul 10 09:54:55 -0700 2007 2732699 11059 JessKidden 2 2735928 Amen. Tue Jul 10 10:15:00 -0700 2007 2735859 10809 Josh 2 2737234 While I completely agree with you guys, can we give this poster the benefit of the doubt? Instead of critisizing his question we could give responses back on other lagers we have liked. Pretend he asked the question differently and just help the guy out. We all know what he was trying to get out of this. Tue Jul 10 15:28:13 -0700 2007 2735859 12484 MVNYC 3 2737287 I guess I have to make it clear what this thread is about? "What is your favorite lager beer in the world?" And to further clarify ...The lager beer I am interested in will say that its a "lager" on the bottle or can. Thanks to the people who gave their positive feedback. Tue Jul 10 15:44:05 -0700 2007 2737234 11631 Mission 4 2737418 I guess mine is one of the "negative" comments? <g> Well, I think it's pretty *postive* to try a lot of different beers and appreciate the differences, rather than worry about what beer is the "best in the world". (I don't think I was the only one who found descriptions like "creamy wheats or cranberry ales" or "warm yeasty bread in a bottle" somewhat argumentative to begin with.). Now, granted, I don't surf or play tennis but I've work on a assembly line in an un-air conditioned factory where it'd hit the high 90's, drove a truck in summer in Manhattan and a tractor on a farm in August in the Finger Lakes, so while they don't count as "fun in the sun", I, too, can appreciate a classic light lager beer in hot weather. Right now, my "favorites" (i.e, beers currently in my beer frig) are Pilsner Urquell (in the 1/2 liter can) and Victory's Prima Pils... EEEEEeeeeetttttttt (damn, there's the buzzer! - disqualified 'cause they don't say "lager" on the label...) Tue Jul 10 16:26:24 -0700 2007 2737287 11059 JessKidden 4 2738190 Sorry, not trying to be a dick. To me your question was loaded with all kinds of things I look at as being problematic with the state of beer awareness right now. The world of beer is vast, and limiting yourself to one type of brewed beer (lager) because of how you think it differs from ale (incorrectly) means you're closing the door on a lot of stuff you might really enjoy. The only thing that differentiates ales and lagers is the kind of yeast used to make them. Lager yeast ferments at cool temperatures, and requires a long fermentation. Ale yeast ferments at warm temperatures, and is a more rapid fermentation. In both styles you can have heavier, maltier examples, and light, crisp examples. For example, one of my favorite light beers in hot weather is Cooper's Sparkling Pale Ale. Not a lager, but light in color, light in body, and damned refreshing. Another very refreshing style of beer is Belgian gueuze, which is an ale made with large amounts of wheat, but also yeast strains that give a tart flavor. These beers can also be incredibly crisp and thirst-quenching. So to me, when you ask what you asked, I just think that you are missing out a lot on what there is to be found in the world of beer, through misconceptions and a lack of exposure. All that being said, here are some good lagers that you might want to try: Paulaner Marzen (I wasn't joking) Palma Louca (Brazilian) Victory Prima Pils Full Sail Session Lager Brooklyn Lager (incredible!) Sierra Nevada Summerfest (only available during summer, and really great) Tue Jul 10 20:51:02 -0700 2007 2737287 10809 Josh 5 2740084 I agree with you both here, his comments did sound a tad condescending, but attacking the guy back won't make him change his mind. to the original poster, I agree with both of these guys. Don't limit yourself to lager, as it is not the only thirst quencher. I tend to drink mmore ales than lagers, even in the hot summer. the following ales might suit your purpose, Kolsch-the ale version of a pale lager. This is much more my style of light beer lighter pale ales-should be crisp and smooth without too much of a bready taste. To me there is nothing more refreshing than a bavarian hefeweizen in the summer but this may not be up your alley. Plus there are plenty of darker lagers that end up much heavier or richer than liht ales. For a nice taste of the dark side with a light body try a Swartzbier. Wed Jul 11 11:45:46 -0700 2007 2738190 12484 MVNYC 6 2740223 Not to get too sentimental but I many moons ago (1993?) found Steinlager to be "amazing" as well. I remember having a thing for Sol too (I think that a part of my attraction to it was the clear bottle with the raised etching). But at least I drank with flavor in mind as I believe the OP'er is and that's a good thing. Wed Jul 11 12:15:42 -0700 2007 2740084 26180 Chinon00 5 2940698 cannot agree more on Brooklyn and Sierra Nevada. Can't go wrong with either. Fri Sep 14 06:30:07 -0700 2007 2738190 18069 Westy 1 2737258 Staropramen - a great Czeck beer but only drink it if you are in Europe. It doesn't travel well - It's everything Pilsner Urquel strives to be. Tue Jul 10 15:36:15 -0700 2007 2732699 21400 mattesq 1 2737457 my current fav lager is Sam Smith. Tue Jul 10 16:34:39 -0700 2007 2732699 83375 pfarrell 2 2740288 Sam Smith's is an awesome brewery...I personally love the Oatmeal Stout and also the Imperial Stout, they also make a very nice crisp India Pale Ale Wed Jul 11 12:29:44 -0700 2007 2737457 51489 Jimbosox04 1 2740280 Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier The first beer to be poured into my brand new Franziskaner weizen glass. 3 fingers of head form instantaneously and I have to be cautious with the rest of the pour to maintain that amount of suds. The white foam lays atop a gorgeous, hazy organic unfiltered apple juice-colored body. OK lacing, good retention. The definitive weizen aroma: bananas and cloves. Very appetizing on this hot night. This beer is extremely mellow. Every flavor blends immaculately with the next. Soft banana and clove flavors meet honey, lemongrass, very subtle hops, a faint hint of pear skin, a bubblegummy note, cereal grains. Deeper than your average hefe. This beer has a nice crisp finish despite the cloudiness. Great balance, ample carbonation, mellow and sweet flavors, and low alcohol make for an insanely drinkable beer. Nice and refreshing. On a hot day I could easily imagine 3-4 of these disappearing. Wed Jul 11 12:28:43 -0700 2007 2732699 51489 Jimbosox04 2 2741706 Brooklyn Lager! Bottles are great for home consumption, but on tap at a place with clean lines is beyond great! Wed Jul 11 19:32:24 -0700 2007 2740280 102195 imhungryletseat 2 2745756 "Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier..." Nice review, but it's not in the running for the "Best Lager Beer in the World"... Fri Jul 13 03:58:46 -0700 2007 2740280 11059 JessKidden 3 2745835 I don't think any lager is in the running. Its all a matter of opinion. Fri Jul 13 05:37:51 -0700 2007 2745756 51489 Jimbosox04 4 2745919 "I don't think any lager is in the running. Its all a matter of opinion." ...so, no lager is in the running for the best lager, therefore a non-lager is the best lager? am I confused? I am going to answer the question, Best Lager Beer in the World by ignoring the OP's intent to find the best cool refreshing light lager and just tell you all the name of the best beer made with lager yeast that I have ever had: Smuttynose Oak-Aged S'muttonator, Doppelbock, on tap, aged in Jack Daniels barrels...Diversity in Lagers!! Fri Jul 13 06:20:02 -0700 2007 2745835 16728 kenito799 5 2745961 I simply meant that there is no "ONE" we all have out opinions of what lagers do it for us. Some people go by absolute volume, some by finish, some by just what they think tastes good. If many understood what atributes makes a beer perfect they may then taste beer a little different. If you are interested in researching many beers there is a wonderful site you can check out and maybe join. www.beeradvocate.com Fri Jul 13 06:34:48 -0700 2007 2745919 51489 Jimbosox04 6 2746089 Thanks I am working on my beer karma points...just 27 reviews to go till Initiate! That's why your post confused me, although I too love Weihenstephaner and agree that it is a perfect warm weather beer, it is not a lager, as lagers are made with lager yeast (Saccharomyces uvarum or carlsbergensis) and all other beers are made with vaious strains of Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Fri Jul 13 07:19:57 -0700 2007 2745961 16728 kenito799 6 2746396 Um, yeah but in terms of "what lagers do it for us", a weissbier isn't a lager! Fri Jul 13 08:45:37 -0700 2007 2745961 10809 Josh 6 2746418 I think that we might be able to agree on solid examples of particular styles though. For me a solid example of German Pils (whether I like it or not) is Jever for example. When we get apples to apples it makes more sense. Fri Jul 13 08:50:36 -0700 2007 2745961 26180 Chinon00 7 2746562 I have never had a Jever that was not skunked, even in Germany. I have heard it was good but all I got was skunk. I would like to try it on tap as I have heard good things. By the way a great light summer beer is Brooklyn Summer Ale, which is a very light English style ale that is very refreshing in the summer. Look for it. Fri Jul 13 09:27:52 -0700 2007 2746418 12484 MVNYC 8 2746703 I've never had a skunked Jever because I never buy less than a case at a time - and I'd estimate I've bought several dozen cases in the past 5-10 years or so- starting when they still came in those plastic cases [my beer cellar is still full of those cases for my singles]. As a long time Ballantine Ale drinker, I learned 30+ years ago to avoid green bottled beer that's been exposed to light. Why do brewers still do it? Beats me. But ultimately, it's not the green glass that's the *cause*, it's exposure to light... Fri Jul 13 10:11:32 -0700 2007 2746562 11059 JessKidden 9 2747081 Well I am not going to buy a case of something that I have only had skunked, if you catch my drift. I have purchased cases of Urquell and still been dissapointed so I am not going to buy a case of something I have had in the country of origin as skunked. Especially not when I can have a good American Pils. Fri Jul 13 11:30:41 -0700 2007 2746703 12484 MVNYC 10 2747209 I've had skunked beer before but I think also that European Pils can have what I would describe as a slight “musky” smell/ taste (along with hops, grass and metal) which you may be confusing with skunked? This muskiness is to me part of the character of the beer and not a flaw or the product of mishandling. Additionally, I’ve never noticed this muskiness in American Pils. Could you please describe what you consider a "skunked" taste/ smell? Thanks! Fri Jul 13 11:59:53 -0700 2007 2747081 26180 Chinon00 11 2747263 Um, skunked beer is really, really obvious. I mean, it smells exactly like skunk. I just had one, in fact, Castelain Blond Biere de Garde. As soon as I popped the cork, an overpowering smell of skunk. I've had many of these beers, and that was the first time I'd gotten a skunked bottle. Fri Jul 13 12:15:18 -0700 2007 2747209 10809 Josh 11 2749643 I lived in various places in Europe, one of which was Prague, I drank Pilsener that was fresh on a daily basis(with an ever expanding waistline to prove it). You think of a Czech pilsener I have tried it. While it is not nor has it ever been my favourite style of beer I have drank enough of it to know what the fresh stuff tastes like. Here in America we don't get fresh pilseners from Europe. We do brew our own just fine. Are they as good as the good stuff at the source, probably not(though I did just try Prima Pils and enjoyed it quite a bit). The only places I drink Euro Pilseners are those in which it is on tap and has a high turnover like the Bohemian Beer Garden in Astoria which might be one of the greatest beer gardens in the US. Still even there it is not fresh as it was back on the continent. I usually go with Radegast Dark which i believe is a Swartzbier there as well. Pilseners are fragile beers, they dont have high alcohol content nor a big malty profile to protect them in shipping. Since they are so light and any mistakes are magnified due to their clarity they simply do not travel well. By the way I only had Jever in the bottles in Germany, and they must not have been handled well. In prague when i wasnt at the bar(which wasnt often because beers cost about $.20 when i was there.) I usually bought cans of beer. All Czech beers came in cans over there. Sat Jul 14 11:38:30 -0700 2007 2747209 12484 MVNYC 12 2749753 MVNYC the only reason that I directed that comment at you was because of how you framed your comment on skunked Jever. I could understand if you'd never had an unskunked Jever in the States (due to pilsener's fragility) but when you included Germany as well (which in my experience is a country which is anal about beer freshness) it triggered that question from me. You've clarified things above so sorry for the confusion. Back to my original point though we can I think tend to agree on solid examples of certain beer styles. For me Prima Pils, Pikeland Pils, Jever Pils, Dinkelacker CD are good examples of German Pils. Sat Jul 14 12:28:22 -0700 2007 2749643 26180 Chinon00 13 2749810 Sorry to be harsh but the internet basically sucks. I much prefer talking with people beacuase so much of communication is non-verbal. Pikeland Pils is good stuff, i forgot about that one and i just remembered Rogue Uber Pils as well. Both good things as well. My knowledge of Pilseners are mostly based on the Czech varieties. Whenever I went to Germany I had been so sick of pils that I drank whatever else was available so the few times i did have Jever i had it skunked unfortunately Sat Jul 14 13:08:09 -0700 2007 2749753 12484 MVNYC 13 2750998 yep thanks, for more info on German Pils please reference www.germanbeerguide.co.uk/pils.html I guess this is the correct posting edicate when using someone elses articles. Many thanks Jess..... Sun Jul 15 05:35:54 -0700 2007 2749990 51489 Jimbosox04 13 2749841 Here's the think about light-struck (aka "skunked") beer- it's not a matter of freshness, "handling" (a shorthand we all use) in general, the country of origin and/or imbidding or the nearness the drinker is to the brewery- it is exposure to light- specifically sunlight (real bad) or florescent light (not a whole lot better). Expose a light bodied, hoppy beer bottled in green glass to sunlight and you're going to get skunky beer in about a half an hour (even if you're across the street from the brewery in Friesland, Germany and the beer just came off the bottling line 31 minutes ago). All the shipping via truck, ship, train, handtruck or forklift isn't going to cause a beer to become light-struck UNTIL the retailer takes it out of the sealed case and put it on his shelf, exposing it to sunlight or florescent light. And it takes less than a half hour (sun) and maybe a few hours under modern florescent light, so no amount of "turnover" is really going to help. So, who's to blame? I blame the retailer, ultimately, for not knowing his product, for shrugging his shoulders and saying, "But EVERYBODY retails beer that way in the 21st century". But, does that let the brewer off the hook- not really. Don't THEY know what a modern retail beer store looks like? Glass-doored coolers, open shelving for six-packs and singles. Gone are the days of the non-self-service, "clerk gets your beer out of the heavy wooden-doored cooler behind the counter" retail beer store in America (altho' I *still* remember bars and liquor stores like that....). Here's some 50+ year old quotes about retailing beer that were 'common wisdom" once, but have long since been forgotten in the retail segment but seemingly are still the rule of thumb of brewers: "(The bottle mfg) admitting that sunlight is hardly good for beer … contends that very few dealers or consumers are foolish enough to expose beer to the direct rays of the sun. (Shopkeepers put dummy bottles in their windows).” Fortune, Jan. 1936, article “Beer Into Cans” “Q-How Can the Tavern Owner Avoid Improper Storage of Bottled Beer? A- The reserve stock of bottled beer should be stored in a cool, dark place. He must never use full bottles for display purposes, where they will be exposed to the sun or strong daylight. Bottles with clean labels filled with water may be used as dummies for display purposes. Beer exposed to light will become light-struck. Light-struck beer assumes first an off-taste and then becomes hazy and develops a sediment. The speed at which beer becomes light-struck depends upon the intensity of the light. Beer must never be exposed to the direct rays of the sun which will noticeably affect it in a few minutes.” The Practical Brewer, Master Brewers’ Assoc. of America 1946 I can sympathize with MVNYC who says above, " I am not going to buy a case of something that I have only had skunked..." but, unfortunately, because of "tradition" the only way to insure non-light-struck beer in green bottles in most cases is going to be buying by the sealed case. I'm not sure of exactly HOW this tradition came to be (in the US, it was European imports and ales that came in green glass with a few notable exceptions- Rolling Rock, Heileman's Special Export come to mind)- the urban legend lately is that a "shortage of brown glass after WWII" created the tradition- but I'd never heard that before in 30+ years of reading about beer and, IIRC, Heineken was in green glass in the US *before* the war and (according to the book by Van Munching's grandson) Molson didn't really take off in the US market until IT, too, was bottled in green bottles. Both beers were bottled in brown bottles for their home market, ironically- one of the factors that led to many "Hey, how come Heineken/Molson doesn't taste the 'same' in the US as in Holland/Canada?" comments [short answer- "'Cause they ain't SKUNKED at home!"]. Sat Jul 14 13:27:01 -0700 2007 2749753 11059 JessKidden 14 2749973 Someone posted this up here before, and it's still a great read: http://www.beveragebusiness.com/bbcontent/art-arch/mmbryson02.html I would love to see brewers use the ruby-red glass. Pity it's so expensive. Rogue's ceramic bottles for their high-end beers are perfect. If you're gonna pay $13 for a pilsner, it's good to know it won't be skunked. Sat Jul 14 14:26:32 -0700 2007 2749841 10809 Josh 1 2741869 Oh! I almost forgot about Samichlaus Bier, a doppelbock (lager) that was once the highest %abv beer in the world at 15%. There are tons of things going on in this lager like peaty scotch, raisin, malt, molasses . . . One of my favorites! Wed Jul 11 20:35:07 -0700 2007 2732699 26180 Chinon00 1 2745723 My favourite beer more or less in the major-label lager style is Sam Adams Boston Lager. The aroma alone makes me like it much more than Steinlager, and I say that as a New Zealander. Fri Jul 13 02:08:58 -0700 2007 2732699 101674 bradluen 2 2746541 You can't compare a Sam to a Steinie like that...Steinie is much more pilsener in style...completely different. Fri Jul 13 09:24:21 -0700 2007 2745723 60980 Scotty100 1 2940078 I must say, it seems everyone is in search of the most exotic, hard to get. When it comes to lager, there really are fewer choices (lager is harder to make). Actually, I can think of 3 that are relatively high volume that stand the test of time. 1. Harp Lager (Guinness Brewing Company) - My personal fav but not widely available if drinking in a restaurant/bar. 2. Carlsberg - I developed my taste for beer via this one - a bit strong though unless on draught (can't explain that). 3. Red Stripe - Hits the spot when it's hot out and a perfect accompanyment to carribean food. Honorable Mention - Stella Artois - This is a newly 'popular' beer and a good one at that but I find it less distictive than the 3 previously mentioned so if it's on draft and the other 3 aren't, I'll choose it. Thu Sep 13 20:12:14 -0700 2007 2732699 127206 kddonovan 2 2940681 For clarification are these your personal favorites are these your choices for fantastic and outstanding examples of lager beer? Thanks! Fri Sep 14 06:23:05 -0700 2007 2940078 26180 Chinon00 1 2965342 Fishrock Brewery in Sydney Australia (part of a wine making company) won first prize in 2006 for their "Leatherjacket" (type of fish) lager. I ordered a case and found that it beaded beautifully, the head/ foam was light and very smooth to drink...very popul;ar in the Southern states of Oz, so if you google "Fishrock Brewery", up will come the blurb...I have yet to try their "Red Emperor" (another fish) ale....bottoms up mate!! Fri Sep 21 23:49:37 -0700 2007 2732699 126102 Liz vermaas 1 2968524 My current vote has to go to Victory Pils out of PA, terrific brew with a great taste and ridiculous drinkability. Sun Sep 23 15:10:08 -0700 2007 2732699 101707 yankeefan 2 2968758 Amen to that. Easily one of the top beers being made in the US right now. Sun Sep 23 16:57:05 -0700 2007 2968524 10809 Josh 3 2970003 Prima Pils has been a fixture in my fridge all summer. A great beer for alot of different foods as well as one you can offer to most guests who drink light lagers. Mon Sep 24 07:48:13 -0700 2007 2968758 12484 MVNYC 4 2972137 I believe Josh agreed with me about this in another post but...how can Victory make such a great Pils but a tasteless lager? (this post was about lagers, wasn't it!) Mon Sep 24 16:39:45 -0700 2007 2970003 102195 imhungryletseat 5 2973075 Czech Pils, while a lager, is a nicely hopped lager. Perhaps their regular lager is just trying to be a lawnmower beer? Mon Sep 24 22:45:40 -0700 2007 2972137 10809 Josh 6 2973227 I prefer the term "bill payer" for their lager (although I don't know how well it does actually). I brought a mixed case (which included Victory Lager) to a family gathering. Most of my people (who either don't drink or are light lager people) know that I'm into "real" tasting beer (but this never stops them from trying (then frowning) then trying again the assortment of beers I'll bring [Storm King was a real "crowd pleaser"]). Anyway an uncle of mine really liked Victory lager. He commented "any beer that I can knock off in two swallows in good beer to me". Tue Sep 25 03:16:04 -0700 2007 2973075 26180 Chinon00 2 3003635 If you like The Victory Prima Pils , and get to that area of Pa....stop by Stoudts and give thier Pilsner a try. Thu Oct 04 08:33:41 -0700 2007 2968524 131211 debbieg2210 1 2996930 Hevelius Caper (not sure about spelling) from Poland. Terrific lager. Over 8% abv Tue Oct 02 12:13:18 -0700 2007 2732699 67231 dfishhead 1 3010179 My favorite lagers right now are both maibocks. They are Smuttynose's Maibock (from their "Big Beer" series) and Sierra Nevada's Pale Bock. Next would be doppelbocks, including Smuttynose's doppel, and Optimator and Bajuvator from Germany. Sat Oct 06 07:28:06 -0700 2007 2732699 90936 Kenji 1 3011127 I forgot about Baltic porters -- which are usually lagers and often spectacular. My favorite example of this style was a US micro take on it: Heavyweight Brewing's Perkuno's Hammer. Heavyweight closed, but the beer has been revived by Victory as the soon-to-be-released Baltic Thunder. Sat Oct 06 16:05:20 -0700 2007 2732699 90936 Kenji 2 3012228 Baltic Porters are ales Sun Oct 07 09:42:38 -0700 2007 3011127 12484 MVNYC 3 3012309 "Baltic Porters are ales". The designation "Baltic Porter" is relatively recent (unlike the style itself)- seems to me it was more or less created in the late 1980's or so by Michael Jackson (there's no "Baltic porter" style listed in World Guide or the early Pocket Guides, for instance), to describe the strong porters that are brewed in the Baltics that were inspired by the English porters and Imperial Stouts that were once exported to the area. *Most* of those beers are brewed using lager yeast, since that's the yeast most of the area brewers used. A few are top fermenting, thus making the "style" somewhat unique (there are a few other styles that are brewed with either yeast) and not easily classified. In the early days of the beer revival, many purists just thought of them as "not real porters", just as they did with the other (even less well-respected) porter sub-style, "Pennsylvania Porter" (which included Yuengling, Stegmaier, Neuweiler and the non-PA Narragansett) which continued to be brewed despite the "light lager"dominance in pre-micro era US brewing. I've always thought that there was a connection between Baltic and PA. porters, since they not only both used lager yeast but also might have appealed to Eastern Europeans who eventually settled in PA mining areas or New England industrial cities. Pennsylvania Porters, however, were of "normal strength" for the most part and suffered the general "lightening" of flavor that all US brews suffered- altho' Stegmaier was once noted for a strong licorice flavor (totally different than the stuff The Lion now markets under the name) and another Narragansett/Falstaff product, Krueger Old Surrey Porter (draft only) was a real nice hoppy porter for the time, which showed a close relationship to it's sister brew, Ballantine XXX Ale. (Indeed, one might very well imagine it shared much of the same formula, with the addition of "Porterine"). Sun Oct 07 10:23:40 -0700 2007 3012228 11059 JessKidden 4 3012572 That's a well-informed post. Some of the US micro takes on Baltic Porter, such as Perkuno's Hammer/Baltic Thunder, are, in keeping with tradition, made with lager yeast. Anchor's porter (a rich brew, but not a BP) is also, interestingly, made with a lager yeast. Sun Oct 07 13:20:31 -0700 2007 3012309 90936 Kenji 4 3012608 I did not know that. So are most/all of the Eastern European porters made with lager yeasts? Why are they made with lager yeasts? It seems to me like ale yeast could get the job done for these beers without too much difference in taste at a lower cost. Is it done because these beers are brewed in a cold climate that would be difficult to use ale yeasts most of the year? Sun Oct 07 13:38:32 -0700 2007 3012309 12484 MVNYC 5 3012648 "Why are they made with lager yeasts?" I think in the past, it was very common for a brewery to have a "house yeast" that they cultivated and maintained in-house and it was much easier, and the risk of contaimination was lessened, if all their beers were fermented with the same yeast. That's why many of the surviving US "macro" ales (marginal products and a small percentage of the production totals by the, to be sure) were actually "bastard ales"- using lager yeast at warmer temperatures. (This was looked down upon by those same early beer purists of the 60's and 70's who distained US porters- altho', to me, it seemed awfully close to "steam beer", which was held up as an example of a unique American beer style. Go figure.) From what I understand, the craft brewers' use of multiple yeast strains in one brewery is quite an eye-opener for many "old line" brewers here and in Europe. (Seems to me I recall an article recently in one of the beer papers about a tour of a US craft brewery by an UK brewer (from Fuller or Youngs?) in which the brewer was very surprised at the number of different yeasts in use at the facility.). Sun Oct 07 13:54:42 -0700 2007 3012608 11059 JessKidden 1 3120879 Maybe not "THE BEST".. but a few of my lager favourites~> 1. Estrella Damm (ES) 2. Stella Artois 3. DAB (DE) Tue Nov 13 09:54:38 -0800 2007 2732699 133588 HaveTasteWillTravel32 1 3122085 Not that it's the best or my fave, but sitting by the Singapore river with ice cold Tiger on the rocks in a frosty mug on an 88-degree day. Mmmm. Also, NZ makes some of the best beers in the world, so why Steinlager? Tue Nov 13 14:16:54 -0800 2007 2732699 13136 Loren3 1 3238608 I had to post that tonight I had the pleasure of trying Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout for the first time. It was big, bold, and fantastic (9.0% abv). I then noticed Radeberger Pils on the beer board and had that second (although figuring I wouldn't be able to fully appreciate it due to what I'd previously had). I couldn't have been more wrong. The pils came screaming through, burning off the fog as it were, left behind by the impy stout. Was the pils better? That would be like comparing apples to oranges. But I guess my only point is that pils can pack a punch too. Wed Dec 26 18:18:01 -0800 2007 2732699 26180 Chinon00