418502 Fri Jul 06 13:41:02 -0700 2007 23 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 2725173 Next weekend I'll be going up to Napa for wine tasting, with my boyfriend and another couple. We want to go to a few cheap/free ones and some really good ones. He's been up there and likes ZD, Clos de Pegase, Miner and Ferrari Carano (sp?). What do you think of Raymond and Copia? Another friend of mine suggested Peju, Cakebread and Flora Springs. It will be the first time up there for the other couple. But my boyfriend likes the non-crowded and lesser known but quality places. So any tips on finding a good balance for both? Any thoughts on these wineries or other suggestions are much appreciated! Fri Jul 06 13:41:02 -0700 2007 110169 simplicitea 1 2726436 Simplicitea, Use the search window and look up each of those names....please do a little homework first. There are several threads that talk about lesser known places. The new search function is a wonderful thing. P.S. Ferrari Carano is not in Napa Valley, but in Healdsburg, a fair hop north. Fri Jul 06 21:50:19 -0700 2007 2725173 18222 maria lorraine 2 2727666 Thanks. Since I didn't get any responses, I spent a few hours doing some searches and looking at previous posts and found some good stuff. (This is my first time using chowhound - I realized there were some recent posts on this topic). The two that stood out to me were Sinsky and Frog's Leap. Also, there were lots of recs for going to Sonoma rather than Napa. So I'm thinking about going to Sonoma first, then ending the day in Napa. Thanks again for the tips. Sat Jul 07 14:04:44 -0700 2007 2726436 110169 simplicitea 3 2727697 Good goin', Simplicitea. I'm not one for recommending Sonoma over Napa. If Napa is where you want to be, then do it. Sonoma County is extremely diverse, very spread out, and a wonderful place to taste wine. I adore it. (There is also the city of Sonoma, different from Sonoma County.) However, I live and thrive in Napa Valley, and find it a glorious place to taste wine, and extremely easy to get around. Stick with your plans. Taste in Napa, and then venture some into Sonoma, but remember, because it is so diverse and spread out, you will have to plan the area(s) you visit strategically. If you can't tell already, I do not even begin to enter into any debate on which place -- Sonoma or Napa -- is better. That's just silly -- they're next door to one another. Both are wonderful, just slightly different in terrain, wines, personality. Have fun. Sat Jul 07 14:18:49 -0700 2007 2727666 18222 maria lorraine 1 2727835 My fiancee and I just returned last night from our first visit to Napa. I saw the comment below about choosing Sonoma over Napa and my advice is to pick one and stick to it. Unless you are compelled by one certain winery that will help make your decision, they both have plenty that you can visit. Both Sinsky and Frog's Leap were recommended to me (by some wine experts) but we did not make it to either one. My two favorites were Cakebread and Honig; not because the wine was far superior (they are both fantastic), but because the tastings were by appointment only and were held in intimate settings. I learned a lot. They were each $10 per person, and at Honig, the fee was refunded when I purchased a bottle of wine. It was my first time in Napa and Sonoma, and we visited over 15 different wineries. I'm no expert and I know there are plenty of others to hit, but I would bet my reputation that you'll enjoy Cakebread and Honig. -Kevin Sat Jul 07 15:31:43 -0700 2007 2725173 15382 UptownKevin 2 2727862 Thanks you two! Maria Lorraine - I see you everywhere as I search! I'm gleaning your wisdom from various threads. Kevin - Yeah, now I am thinking of just staying in Napa, especially since our stay is short. It may be wiser to save Sonoma for another trip (sad!). A friend also recommended Cakebread, so will consider it. Here's what stands out so far. My plans keep changing! Sinsky Cliff Lede Frank Family Frog's Leap Miner Family ZD (didn't find any reviews but my bf really likes it) Food: Taylor's Refresher Terra (both got rave reviews on chow) I now need to find a place to taste champagne. I *love* champagne. I read a post just now recommending Chandon. Also, are there any places open at night? We'll be arriving Friday night and it'd be nice to squeeze something in. Now I have to check how much each of these places are. We are on a budget. Back to work... Sat Jul 07 15:44:30 -0700 2007 2727835 110169 simplicitea 3 2728005 For sparkling wines, by far the most beautiful and interesting place to visit is Schramsberg. Many great posts on it. Far better than Mumm or Chandon, but a little more expensive too. BTW, it's Sinskey, as in Robert Sinskey. Sat Jul 07 16:55:31 -0700 2007 2727862 18222 maria lorraine 3 2729242 For sure go to Taylors Refresher - we just returned, had lunch there and it was as good as everyone said it was. Had cheeseburger (hubby regular burger), the garlic fries, a chocolate shake and the watermelon lemonade. Burgers were wonderful, really fresh buns, great sauce. Only thing I would change is would not have gotten the watermelon lemonade, it was just "ok", not as good as it sounded - next time I'll get a shake too :-) Line was long, but moved fast and food came out pretty quick too. Sun Jul 08 09:32:25 -0700 2007 2727862 12099 sivyaleah 3 2733400 In the city of Napa there are several options for evening or late day tasting at downtown tasting rooms, wine shops and wine bars. Stave may have a special tasting with a guest winery or two, which is usually about $10 to taste 5 wines. Backroom Wines usually has tastings or events on Friday nights for about $10-$15. Across Soscol near Copia, JV Wine & Spirits has Friday night winemaker tastings for $2 which is applied to any purchases. Wineries of Napa Valley tasting room is open till 7:30 on weekends. Vintner's Collective is usually open till 6PM. Mon Jul 09 14:31:27 -0700 2007 2727862 16831 Ruby Louise 3 2734801 Having recently spent 2.5 days in Napa w/ a little of Sonoma on the last day, I would advise you to just pick either for a short stay. I could have used the last day in Napa to explore more wineries and shops and felt rushed in Sonoma. Your choices above sound good to me! Have fun and I look forward to your report back. Mon Jul 09 22:56:29 -0700 2007 2727862 10371 Carb Lover 1 2728097 The website for the SF Chronicle has an excellent database (with reviews & comments) that you can access for winery info. www.sfgate.com/wine/ Look for the "Wine Country Guide" Sat Jul 07 17:31:47 -0700 2007 2725173 23776 DavidT 2 2729184 Thanks David - looked it up and it's really helpful. We want to go to some free places - I just searched complimentary in Napa and they all showed. FYI, best maps I've found: PDF: http://www.napavalley.com/visitorsinfo/Napa_Valley_Winery_Map.pdf http://sonoma.winecountry.com/visitorsinfo/Sonoma_County_Winery_Map.pdf Napa map with legend: www.traveltowinecountry.com/images/napa_v1.gif Sun Jul 08 09:11:37 -0700 2007 2728097 110169 simplicitea 3 2731162 Hiya, Simplicitea, just a little something to consider... Please don't rule out tasting rooms because they charge for tastings. It's going to be difficult to find any free tasting rooms, and for just $5 or $10 you can have a wonderful experience. Remember you and your BF can share a tasting -- that works out well. Just plan the cost into your budget; it will make a difference just paying a small amount. I understand not wanting to pay $25 for Schramsberg, but most folks think it's worth it. To save a little money on lunch, get sandwiches at Sunshine Market in St. Helena, then use the money you saved on tastings. One other idea: take your sandwiches to a winery that allows picnics, buy a bottle of wine and enjoy your lunch there. Enjoy yourselves, and be sure to report back. Mon Jul 09 00:15:42 -0700 2007 2729184 18222 maria lorraine 4 2734126 Small addition if you didn't already know: wineries charge for tastings partly to discourage drunken freeloaders and the resulting liability. Often the good wineries who don't charge require appointments. Mon Jul 09 18:33:04 -0700 2007 2731162 18222 maria lorraine 1 2729253 Puju was stunning, gorgeous garden with artwork scattered around it, nice tasting room with stained glass window, but not much else going on. I think you could pass on this one unless you're into photography, in which case it is worth a stop. Sun Jul 08 09:35:05 -0700 2007 2725173 12099 sivyaleah 2 2731158 Just a little thing...it's Peju. Mon Jul 09 00:12:13 -0700 2007 2729253 18222 maria lorraine 3 2731219 Thanks - mistype :-) Mon Jul 09 03:44:45 -0700 2007 2731158 12099 sivyaleah 1 2733942 Peju is very nice and mostly family operated i think, very down to earth and friendly. For champagne DEFINITLY go to Schramsberg. Its about 2 minutes from Clos Pegase so you can stop there too for their stunning architecture and art exhibits. Artesa (my favorite) is also very architectually pleasing and thier chardonnay is great. Some nice wineries where you will receive a more intimate tour and tasting: Terra Valentine- Intimate tour and tasting includes several wines paired with artisan cheese, crackers and chocolate. Outstanding wine! www.terravalentine.com Barnett Vineyards- Breathtaking views of the valley, very intimate tour and tasting of several wines www.barnettvineyards.com Pride Mountain Vineyards- Beautiful property with exquisite views of the valley, outstanding wine and very informative tours www.pridewines.com Spring Mountain Vineyards- Very nice guided tasting and tour through the winery, caves, vineyards and gardens www.springmtn.com Mon Jul 09 17:23:38 -0700 2007 2725173 74399 fyoulady 2 2734001 Third Schramsberg-they take you on a tour of the caves and the sparkling wine is delicious. They have a great history too. Artesa is one of my favs too-it's close to The Carneros Inn (where we stay), there is a Cafe there with excellent brakfasts and lunches. I think it is called Boonfly? For other dining, I love Bistro Jeanty, Bouchon, Terra Mon Jul 09 17:42:19 -0700 2007 2733942 87101 Densible 3 2734111 Boonfly is great. Great burgers and the best gourmet mac 'n' cheese I've had in years. Well-priced. Terra is remarkable in every way. Lots of recs in you search this board for Napa in the last year. Mon Jul 09 18:27:00 -0700 2007 2734001 18222 maria lorraine 3 2734620 The restaurant Farm at the Carneros Inn is also very good. Mon Jul 09 21:16:45 -0700 2007 2734001 74399 fyoulady 4 2734805 Yeah, but they just lost their chef -- Kimball Jones. I'm sure the menu will take at least a momentary dive with Christopher Gerard, the first chef at Angèle. Mon Jul 09 22:59:37 -0700 2007 2734620 18222 maria lorraine 1 2752054 I'm back! I want to say thanks to everyone for their input, and for other threads too. It really helped a lot and having put in the time to research, by the time I got there I felt familiar with the place, and felt like I had a good sense of what was what. I had a good time but the trip did not go as planned, as you will see below... ;) But here it is. We drove up Friday morning. The drive was nice and we reached Napa in good time. We started off with Clos du Val for a tour and tasting. It was a good first winery to go to - not too crowded but not too small either. The tour guide really knew what he was talking about but he talked so fast that it was hard to understand what he was saying. Of the tastings, I liked their Pinot Noir. Then we headed off to Copia. It was near closing time but we got some wine and food tastings. It is very museum-like and lots of school buses. I wouldn't go there again, but my friend really wanted to so we did. Then went downtown and had dinner at Bounty Hunter. We really enjoyed it. We had the beer can chicken, the ribs, oysters on the half shell and veggie skewers. Everything was delicious. If I went again with a group of 4 like we did, I'd order the beer can chicken and then a bunch of sides. The chicken was moist and flavorful. The farmer's market was going on in downtown so we walked around, got some samples and bought some white peaches and nectarines which were really juicy and yummy. It was a great place to stroll and unwind after a long drive and dinner. Next we checked into our hotel in Fairfield and crashed early. Saturday morning started off well. We first went to Cosentino. Of the places we went, we enjoyed the atmosphere and the wines here the best. It is lesser known, smaller but very intimate. We chatted a lot with the guy and he gave us 6 tastings. He was really down to earth and an interesting guy. I liked the Sauvignon Blanc (both couples got a bottle each) and the Cabernet. My bf loved the Cab. All four of us had a great time here. Then off to Robert Sinskey. I had heard tons of great things about this place and it was one of my top priorities. I liked the way it was set up and the food pairings were excellent. However, we didn't enjoy the wines or the atmosphere so much. It felt very detached and the wines were really strong. For lunch we went to Taylor's Refresher. We had the cheeseburger and the ahi tuna burger. Both burgers were fresh and the meat cooked just right. I loved the ahi tuna. We also had the watermelon lemonade, which was just ok. The garlic fries were awesome. This is where my plans deviated. My friend fainted while waiting in line at Taylor's! I think she was dehydrated and so this put a kink in our schedule. We had to wait until she felt better, then take her back to the hotel. By this time we lost a lot of time. The plan had been to keep heading up Silverado, to ZD, then we had an appt at Duckhorn, then Frank Family, August Briggs and if time, Bennett Lane, have dinner up in Calistoga and then drive down. Instead, my bf and I took a quick trip up to Chandon for the bubblies (I couldn't get reservations at Schramsberg - have to do it way ahead of time). I wasn't so hot on Chandon. The scene was bar-like, lots of people and the bubblies were just okay. What I did enjoy was the garden/lawn area outside. We chilled there for awhile before driving back. We had dinner near our hotel at Blue Frog as it was getting late. It was not very good. It was like an overpriced Denny's with a nicer atmosphere. I was kind of bummed but these things happen and you can never predict what will happen no matter how much planning you do. Anyways, now I know where to go for next time. Hopefully I can hit up these places and do Sonoma too. Thanks chowhounders! Next trip: Paris and Italy in 2 weeks. :) Sun Jul 15 15:26:39 -0700 2007 2725173 110169 simplicitea 2 2752134 Sorry to hear about your friend and hope she's OK. Sorry your plans were diverted, but you are now happily off to Paris. Perhaps you can make up for what you didn't taste in Napa in France or Italy. Chowhound Link to Wineries in Italy: http://www.chowhound.com/search?search%5Bquery%5D=wineries&options%5Bmodels%5D=Topic&options%5Bfrom%5D=1+year+ago&options%5Bto%5D=now&options%5Bsort_mode%5D=desc&options%5Bboardgroup_id%5D=9&options%5Bboard_id%5D=58&x=31&y=11 Chowhound link to Paris Bistros: http://www.chowhound.com/search?search%5Bquery%5D=title%3AParis+AND+bistro&options%5Bmodels%5D=Topic&options%5Bfrom%5D=2+years+ago&options%5Bto%5D=now&options%5Bsort_mode%5D=desc&options%5Bboardgroup_id%5D=9&options%5Bboard_id%5D=49&x=28&y=5 Sun Jul 15 16:15:24 -0700 2007 2752054 18222 maria lorraine