416508 Fri Jun 29 15:40:36 -0700 2007 39 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 2707763 A friend who is about to spend a week in the Napa and Sonoma valleys would like to visit a few organic or biodynamic wineries while there. Any recommendations, especially for establishments with character and/or excellent wines, would be welcome. Thanks! Fri Jun 29 15:40:36 -0700 2007 10520 carswell 1 2707844 Oh YUM. Robert Sinskey grows their grapes organically and biodynamically. They have some really great, vibrant wines: http://www.robertsinskey.com Fri Jun 29 16:07:04 -0700 2007 2707763 34763 slobhan 2 2710499 Recent short report on Sinskey and biodynamics by Carb Lover here: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/414586#2699034 Sun Jul 01 02:46:37 -0700 2007 2707844 18222 maria lorraine 1 2708374 "would like to visit a few organic or biodynamic wineries" Something bothers me in the "or" above. Organic is a much abused word nowadays. Hey, even Wallmart goes organic. Biodynamic goes much deeper. Some homework from your friend prior to the trip might pay off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food Fri Jun 29 21:36:12 -0700 2007 2707763 28703 RicRios 1 2708669 Frog's Leap is biodynamic and is a lot of fun. Robert Mondavi's vineyards are about 80% organic. Most wineries in Napa and Sonoma practice "sustainable" practices. Some think that is even more important than biodynamic or organic. Sat Jun 30 04:54:45 -0700 2007 2707763 62812 chickstein 2 2708716 Agree heartily with chickstein. Frog's Leap is a wonderful example. I'd go further and say most wineries farm organically but don't go through the certification process. Benziger is a biodynamic winery but the wines aren't that great, unfortunately. Sat Jun 30 05:49:01 -0700 2007 2708669 18222 maria lorraine 3 4064707 The wines aren't great at Benziger but the visit is -- they have an insectory and do a tour of the vineyards with a good introduction to biodynamic agriculture. I think Benziger is worth a visit. Fri Sep 26 16:31:35 -0700 2008 2708716 10669 Amuse Bouches 4 4064792 Unfortunately -- and this is huge -- whatever Benziger is doing organically or biodynamically isn't translating into good flavor in the wines. The wines are *very* disappointing. What's the use of visiting an organic apple farm if the apples don't taste good? Instead, I'd recommend Quintessa, in Napa Valley. Valeria Hunneus is quite gifted and informed on biodynamic farming, and it was my pleasure to hear her speak. The wines are quite good. Or, Araujo. Now there are two wineries that produce outstanding wine but farm biodynamically. And BTW, lots of wineries practice biodynamic farming but do not go for certification. Just as most wineries in nothern California practice organic farming, but not all become certified. Other wineries that employ biodynamic practices AND that produce good wine: Joseph Phelps, Sinskey, Littorai, Preston and Freestone. Are they certified biodynamic? No. Probably the champion philosopher of biodynamic farming in the US -- and oh, he is something -- is Randall Grahm of Bonny Doon. Take a look at his website and his writing. Fri Sep 26 17:15:11 -0700 2008 4064707 18222 maria lorraine 2 3794790 Frogs leap is sustainable, they are not biodynamic. Thu Jun 19 11:22:03 -0700 2008 2708669 202185 upincumer 3 4064008 Frog's Leap certainly is bio dynamic. Close friends are long time employees there and bio dynamic farming is one of the main features on the tour! Fri Sep 26 11:47:57 -0700 2008 3794790 44398 sfeater 3 4064289 I like their wines but Frog's Leap is not certified Biodynamic. Even their website only talks about organic farming 101. Lots of people toss around the Biodynamic term but it has pretty rugorous requirements to be certified. Fri Sep 26 13:37:12 -0700 2008 3794790 137797 kenrmorris 4 4064796 Frog's Leap is certified organic, and does employ many of Steiner's biodynamic farming practices. They are not certified biodynamic (as are many wineries that practice biodynamic farming) but you would be hard-pressed to find a more informed, eloquent, joyous and spiritually-attuned viticulturalist than its owner John Williams. Fri Sep 26 17:18:17 -0700 2008 4064289 18222 maria lorraine 1 2708777 Preston Vineyards in the Dry Creek Valley makes fabulous wines and is a beautiful place to have a picnic. They also have an organic olive grove, from which they make their own (gorgeous, bright-green, fruity) olive oil and a commercial bakery on-site that turns out lovely artisan breads. In addition, they sell fresh produce from their garden. I loved Preston the most of all the wineries I visited in '05. http://prestonvineyards.com/index1.html Sat Jun 30 06:26:26 -0700 2007 2707763 12463 mcgeary 2 2710500 2nd Preston. A skillful Google search will yield more results. Sun Jul 01 02:47:23 -0700 2007 2708777 18222 maria lorraine 1 2708976 I second the recco fro Dry Creek Valley. A lot of great small growers doing some wonderful things in the way of organic and sustainable. Plus Healdsburg is such a great town to visit. Try Michel-Schlumberger, Preston and Quivara. Schlumberger has an amazing property and a cool "green" tour. Sat Jun 30 08:27:43 -0700 2007 2707763 101113 melikey 1 2709619 At the risk of giving up a personal favorite with limited production, and also with the disclaimer that I am a wine retailer and this is one of my treasured suppliers........... The only truly 100% organic winery we've found so far, whose wines are really good, is Coturri WInerym in Glen Ellen (North of Sonoma). Tony Coturri and his brother grow organic grapes and vegetables and Tony makes his wine the 'natural' way, with no sulfites or other additives. Most winemakers will tell you that can't be done successfully, but he does it...... though his wines are generally very full-bodied and not always varietally typical. His site gives directions, but I don't think he has any pre-determined tasting program (I don't see any mention of hours or 'by appointment'), but give him a call or e-mail him. He's a 'trip' and his wines are really memorable. http://www.coturriwinery.com/main.html Sat Jun 30 14:44:08 -0700 2007 2707763 11405 Midlife 2 2710627 Phil Couturri is the vineyard manager for several wineries. Including Arrowood and Smothers. He brings his organic practices to those wineries as well. Sun Jul 01 06:37:54 -0700 2007 2709619 62812 chickstein 2 3795149 I've enjoyed a few bottles of the Coturri Sangiovese. I found it had unusal earthy flavors, which I liked, so I always like to try more when I'm near Glen Ellen. I've never seen it in stores; I thought it was top secret. Does this type of wine require special handling? I have another "organic" wine that has always been in the refrigerator because I was told that was necessary. Thu Jun 19 13:08:36 -0700 2008 2709619 14128 BN1 3 3795699 I just drank a bottle of Coturri Red that had been stored with my other red wines (on shelves in my basement) for at least 6 or 7 years (might have been as much as 10 years). It was fabulous! Oh, how I wish I had bought a case instead of one bottle! (Does anyone have a time machine I can use?) Anne Thu Jun 19 16:00:32 -0700 2008 3795149 12541 AnneInMpls 1 3794927 In the Russian River Valley, check out Porter Creek; one of my absolute favorites in the area... Thu Jun 19 11:57:16 -0700 2008 2707763 74451 vinosnob 2 3795540 Porter Creek is indeed a good one and a nice low -key tasting room. He doesn't really tout it, but Doug Nalle (Nalle Winery) is pretty green. His wine cave is essentially a quonset hut covered with several feet of earth and it works brilliantly. Delicious wines and a really good guy. Thu Jun 19 15:00:14 -0700 2008 3794927 127433 PeterB 3 3795786 We seem have similar palates! Love Nalle; one of the few zins out there that isn't all about knocking you over with high alcohol and jammy, pruny fruit. And, you can actually enjoy it with a variety of food.. Thu Jun 19 16:39:17 -0700 2008 3795540 74451 vinosnob 4 3796058 Yeah, I would say both Nalle and Porter Creek have that in common: finesse. There are so many awesome wines in Russian River and Dry Creek, though. I'm not sure how organic or biodynamic they are but Rochioli makes excellent wines also. The Pinot Noir is outstanding. Thu Jun 19 18:36:32 -0700 2008 3795786 127433 PeterB 1 3801348 I remember my first sip of old vine zinfindel was Cline and their winery is run off solar power and their tour was very comprehensive about the alternate energy sources their using as well as the history of the land they are producing their wine in. Plus you get to take your picture by the red truck. I was so excited! Sat Jun 21 20:03:20 -0700 2008 2707763 164007 Bryn 1 3801374 Hello carswell, I live in Sonoma County and work in the wine biz as a PR consultant. A few quick words in response to the previous postings: Most of the wineries mentioned by the others are worth visiting and make good wine, including Benziger. I've heard their tour is excellent, too. However, most of the comments about farming are inaccurate. Organic viticulture is not just marketing spin; it is something that must be certified. The poster who stated that most vineyards in Sonoma and Napa practice "sustainable" viticulture is correct. Organic farming would be the next step up, with biodynamics being even more extreme than simply "organic". Sulfites are not added to wine, but are a byproduct of the fermentation process including wines made from organic or biodynamically grown grapes. If my memory is correct, wines make with sulfur dioxide used as an anti-spoiling agent during fermentation or aging would have more sulfites than those that aren't. I believe problems occur if the SO2 is added too late in the process, and isn't given time to dissipate. Finally, consider the fact that grape growers and winemakers drink what they grow/make and share it with their families and friends, so to think that they are trying to pass something unhealthy off to the public is absurd. Sat Jun 21 20:18:24 -0700 2008 2707763 202881 been_there 2 4079875 Please remember sulfer is an organic substance and most viticulturists including biodynamic viticulturists use sulfer in the vineyard to prevent mildew. As to the problems that occur in its use as far as taste and olfaction, 2 mg/l molecular seems to be a threshold for most but it depends on the individual. Many wineries are now bottling with CO2 under the capsule rather than SO2 as it lowers the reductive aromas. Fri Oct 03 12:40:07 -0700 2008 3801374 202185 upincumer 2 5009191 Coming to this thread *very* late, just moved to the area and loving chowhound boards for my food & wine research. However, *so* much misinformation around winemaking, especially with regards to sulfites, organic and biodynamic, I have to weigh in. Sulfites *are* naturally occurring in wine, but at levels often too low to measure. In the industrial method of winemaking, sulphur is added to juice after crushing to kill the wild yeasts. I know, I worked at a winery in S. Australia for a season and dumped many many bags of sulphur into tanks of juice. The sulphur kills the yeast then oxidizes into sulfites. The reason for using sulphur is to create a blank page for the winemaker to introduce the winery's yeast cultures and to maintain a consistent taste for the brand. Interactions with wild yeasts would create very different flavors year-to-year, and if not managed intelligently would also increase spoilage. This holds true for both organic and non-organic wines. Biodynamic is indeed the most rigorous set of disciplines with regards to winemaking. The best, simplest expression of its goals was Randall Grahm's statement at Slow Food SF last year, that someday he wants to pick his grapes, crush them, collect the juice in a tank, bottle and age without adding anything. That is the utmost level of terroir possible, where the wild yeast and the grapes are in complete harmony with one another and don't require any engineering to make a palatable beverage. Getting there requires more than organic, it requires a zen-like balancing of all of the controllable and uncontrollable variables in the environment of the vineyard and winery, and a trip back in time to pre-industrial methods & skills. To me, it is the purest expression of the art, but I'm biased. The issue of certification is a whole other can of worms - personally I like the approach favored by farmers around Madison, WI, who refuse to get certified but instead write sworn affidavits that describe their farming methods and post them on their farm stands where they sell their produce. Sun Sep 06 11:10:27 -0700 2009 3801374 1103684 shassinger 1 4064561 Medlock Ames Small winery without a daily tasting room, but my understanding is that you can schedule a time to drop by if they are around. Fri Sep 26 15:36:35 -0700 2008 4064274 10038 5 and Dime Eater 2 4064566 Let's try that places link Fri Sep 26 15:37:48 -0700 2008 4064561 10038 5 and Dime Eater 1 5187472 Grgich Hills Estate is the largest biodynamic winery in the U.S., all estate wines, Miljenko Grgich's Chardonnay put Napa on the map and they have fantastic reds!!! LOVE their wines! Ehlers Estate is also biodynamic - pretty sure they do all reds - great wines too! www.forkandbottle.com lists all the bd wineries in the world! Mon Nov 16 20:20:30 -0800 2009 2707763 1125117 wineinmyglass 2 5187563 You're referring to Grgich's 1973 Chardonnay that won the Paris tasting in 1976 that "put Napa on the map." Don't forget Warren Winiarski's Cabernet won acclaim for the best red wine in the "world" at the same tasting. The significance of that contest wasn't that the Napa Chard won that year, but that both the Napa Chard and the Napa Cab bested French wines that year. The win did bring worldwide respect to Napa, but many people -- especially Robert Mondavi -- "put Napa on the map." Just to be accurate. I'm not all that fond of Grgich's reds. I think they're consistently overoaked, and because of that, some of the fruit is killed. They have an occasional good red, and their Chard is consistently good. Not real fond of Grgich the man, but his nephew, Ivo, is doing a good job as winemaker. IMO, there are many other wineries that are better. I'd never put Grgich in the top five in Napa. Many threads on biodynamic wines on the Wine Board if the reader is interested. BTW, biodynamic practices don't always make better wines -- the wines can be very disappointing, especially if combined with organic winemaking practices. The wines then are unstable, weak, and lose their flavor quickly. Mon Nov 16 21:07:23 -0800 2009 5187472 18222 maria lorraine 3 5187696 Actually it was the 1973 Montelena Chardonnay which won the paris tasting in 1976. Grgich was the winemaker at Montelena at the time (they had a falling out not longer after and no longer speak). Mon Nov 16 22:28:23 -0800 2009 5187563 280762 skwid 4 5187707 And that Chardonnay was made with Sonoma County juice (all or in part). Mon Nov 16 22:34:31 -0800 2009 5187696 10039 Melanie Wong 5 5188881 Yeah, per George Taber's "Judgment of Paris," 20 tons of Montelena's 1973 Chardonnay grapes came from Henry Dick in Alexander Valley (Sonoma), 14 tons from the Bacigalupis in Russian River Valley (Sonoma), and 5 tons from John Hanna and Lee Paschich in Napa Valley, so it was 87% Sonoma. Tue Nov 17 10:46:14 -0800 2009 5187707 11369 Robert Lauriston 6 5188922 The later two are still supplying (all or almost all) of the grapes for the current Montelena Chardonnay Tue Nov 17 10:55:29 -0800 2009 5188881 280762 skwid 7 5188954 By the "latter two" you mean Hanna and Paschich? These days it's labeled Napa Valley, so they can't use more than 15% grapes from other appellations. Tue Nov 17 11:05:58 -0800 2009 5188922 11369 Robert Lauriston 8 5189188 Yes, Hanna and Paschich. For 2007 and 2008 they also made a John Muir "Hanna" Chardonnay from the best barrel(s). I've had it and the wine is quite good although I'm not sure it is $75 good). Tue Nov 17 12:07:35 -0800 2009 5188954 280762 skwid 6 5189040 Thanks for providing the detail. I've heard over the years that Old Man Bacigalupi often reminded people that his fruit was a big part of the winning wine. Here's a note from the family's blog http://www.johntylerwines.com/tag/1976-paris-tasting/ Tue Nov 17 11:27:31 -0800 2009 5188881 10039 Melanie Wong 5 5192246 Another ironic thing about the "Judgment of Paris" tasting was that Jim Barrett, Montelena's owner, didn't originally plan to make Chardonnay. Grgich came up with that idea so that they would have wine to sell while the Cabernet was maturing. Wed Nov 18 13:12:19 -0800 2009 5187707 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 5192219 I wanted to mention Jeriko Estate in Mendocino County off hwy 101. I think they produce excellent organic wines I especially love their Pinot Noir and Syrah, beautifully hand-crafted wines. The estate is worth seeing, nice people, great patio/picnic area with a gorgeous mountain view. http://www.jeriko.us/jeriko/page/story.js Wed Nov 18 13:04:19 -0800 2009 2707763 52212 Lori SF