416146 Thu Jun 28 13:57:54 -0700 2007 12 41 Cookware 0 2704066 I am searching for a new pan to cook problematic things like tofu, paneer, etc. in, and I was wondering if anyone knew if anodized steel is made using pfoa's. (The material that is believed to be carcinogenic and is used in making teflon and other non-stick surfaces.) I currently use a steel coated aluminum and an enamel Le Cruset, but they stink at cooking things like paneer. Thanks! Thu Jun 28 13:57:54 -0700 2007 46897 gridder 1 2704241 There is NOTHING similar about anodzation to non-stick coating.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodising#Type_III_Hardcoat_Anodizing Typically steel is NOT anodized, aluminum is. Further, it does really do much to improve the non-stick coating. It is a way to make the aluminum less reactive. It also makes the surface harder. PTFE, the stuff that DuPont sells as Teflon is most assurably NOT carcinogenic. It is about the most chemically inert compound DuPont has ever cooked up, and is used extensivelyy as a coating in medical devices of all types. http://www2.dupont.com/PFOA/en_US/about_pfoa/index.html Thu Jun 28 14:37:41 -0700 2007 2704066 87093 renov8r 2 2704663 I think you answered my question, but forgive me if I do not take Dupont's word that their products are safe. And even if the end result is safe (if used correctly) there is little question that the pfoa used in the manufacturing process is problematic for the environment, even if there is no detectible amount in the final product, if used correctly, etc. Thu Jun 28 16:55:55 -0700 2007 2704241 46897 gridder 3 2704775 The issue with Teflon is when you heat it to high temperatures +500 deg F - will cause it to give off toxic fumes, It is perfectly acceptable an d safe at lower temperatures - Thu Jun 28 17:37:34 -0700 2007 2704663 11622 weinstein5 2 4469141 WRONG! Sorry renov8r, but while Teflon may be inert (meaning non-reactive) it's very dangerous at high temps. Look at page 3 where thermal decomposition occurs at 200C (390F) and then look at page 1 where it says Harmful by Inhalation. In very small amounts, the fumes of an unattended frying pan will kill small birds, and in larger quantities will cause inhalation poisoning. http://dupontsearch.asp.dupont.com/search?q=cache:wXQYtWN8hC4J:www2.dupont.com/Products_and_Services/en_AU/assets/downloads/dcse%20msds/carpet/Teflon%20Advanced%20MSDS.pdf+teflon+msds&access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&client=en_US&site=default_collection&proxystylesheet=en_US&oe=UTF-8 Tue Mar 03 09:27:40 -0800 2009 2704241 271350 idrivea911 3 4470658 "the fumes of an unattended frying pan will kill small birds" The fumes of an unattended frying pan OF ANY KIND can kill small birds. It's not the Teflon, it's the birds. Their respiratory systems work differently and they can die from exposure to butter or oil burning in a pan that has no Teflon coating at all. Tue Mar 03 15:37:23 -0800 2009 4469141 202198 ferret 3 4470666 While you're right that Teflon emits toxic fumes at high temperatures, you're wrong about the temperature itself. Your link has to do with the manufacture of Teflon and/or Teflon-coated products, not the use of Teflon-coated pans. The science is absolutely clear: Teflon-coated pans are safe up to about 780F, a temperature at which anything in the pan will have caught fire. A 1976 study put rats and heated teflon pans in the same enclosure. The rats did not begin to show symptoms of polymer fume toxicity until the pans were heated over 450C [842F]. Lee KP, et al., "Ultrastructural alterations of rat lung exposed to pyrolysis products of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon)" (1976) 35 Lab Invest 152–160. Other studies have also documented the effects of polymer fumes, but in each experiment the teflon needed to be heated to over 780F to obtain harmful compounds. CJ Johnston, et al., "Pulmonary effects induced by ultrafine PTFE particles" (2000) 168 Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 208-15; Seidel WC. et al., "Chemical, physical, and toxicological characterization of fumes produced by heating tetrafluoroethene homopolymer and its copolymers with hexafluoropropene and perfluoro (propyl vinyl ether)" (1991) 4 Chem Res Toxicol 2:229-36. So, as a rule of thumb, you should be careful when flames start shooting out of your nonstick pan. Soon it might get hot enough to emit toxic Teflon particles. Tue Mar 03 15:39:19 -0800 2009 4469141 58743 alanbarnes 4 4919796 I've watched a bird die from teflon exposure before and it's truly horrible. What happened was my ex-girlfriend's father was boiling water on the stove in a Teflon pan and forgot about it. Once all of the water boiled off the teflon began to vaporize. I was in the living room at the time and it smelled horrible and burned my eyes. They had a amazon parrot in their kitchen and despite moving him outside as soon as I smelled anything from the other room, it was too late. I found him on the floor of his cage shaking. It took about an hour for him to die gasping for air in my arms. I myself keep parrots and I'll never buy another Teflon pan nor anything coated with a nonstick surface. Wed Aug 05 10:47:57 -0700 2009 4470666 1099391 Rickasaurus 5 4919879 I'm sorry to hear about the loss of the parrot. But in the circumstances you described, **any** pan would eventually have begun to smoke, possibly even igniting the surrounding surfaces. And smoke kills birds just as dead as Teflon does. The fact is that most house fires start in the kitchen. Leaving any kind of pan unattended on a burner is extremely dangerous, not just to birds, but to other pets, and to humans. The primary cause of that parrot's death was not the owner's use of a Teflon pan, but the owner's failure to observe basic kitchen safety rules. Wed Aug 05 11:07:13 -0700 2009 4919796 58743 alanbarnes 1 4470523 I don't believe steel can be anodized. Tue Mar 03 15:00:41 -0800 2009 2704066 248284 taos 2 4470739 It can, but it ain't easy. http://infohost.nmt.edu/~burleigh/AnodizedJECS2007.pdf Tue Mar 03 16:11:16 -0800 2009 4470523 58743 alanbarnes 3 4470771 So not easy that the process for doing it warrants a published paper. Safe to say the OP meant anodized aluminum. Tue Mar 03 16:22:04 -0800 2009 4470739 248284 taos 4 4470837 Ayup. Tue Mar 03 16:51:17 -0800 2009 4470771 58743 alanbarnes