What should have happened (at Caren's Wine Bar)?

[Rabbit]

Mr. Rabbit and I had a light dinner at Caren’s this evening. There was a problem, and I’m curious how CH’ers think it should have played out?

We sat at the bar and ordered a bottle of wine, the stilton burger for Mr., and two appetizers for me: the seared tuna, and a house salad (dressing on the side).

The food arrived. Burger looked stunning. Tuna was lovely. But the salad arrived without the advertised goat cheese — which means that it was basically a little heap of mixed greens with some ground flax seed and two slivery roasted red pepper strips. I noted the missing cheese and the owner quickly and happily dispatched the salad to the kitchen to fix it. Fine. Halfway through the salad, I hit a seriously rotten lettuce blob… like the kind where you’re not sure if you want the salad anymore. So our server apologized and took the salad away. He brought out another, but this one was dressed (recall that I had ordered dressing on the side). So it went back again. By this time Mr. Rabbit had finished his burger, and I had finished my tuna. But I was definitely still hungry, so I put back the fourth salad… and it was very nice.

Then the cheque came… a reasonable $80 for a bottle of wine, burger, tuna AND the salad?!? We spent the walk home debating: What should have happened? “Should” I have been charged for this salad? If this were your restaurant, what would you have done?

I like this place, and I’ve otherwise talked it up on the board. And the burger was fabulous (stilton-stuffed, mushrooms sauteed in cognac… really, really “all that”), plus my tuna was wonderful, sesame seed crusted on a lovely savory salad of tomato and bok choy. But all we talked about was the stupid salad and how they could have handled it better. What should have happened?

[embee]

They should have gotten it right the second time - they are professionals, after all. Given that it took four tries to get it right, I really do feel they should have comped it. I'll assume that the missing cheese on number one was one of those inexplicable little glitches that could have happened to anyone. But rotten lettuce is over my limit even in a diner. They should have comped it as of number two.

OTOH, they were consistently gracious, didn't hassle you or insult you over all the replacements, and you did eat it and enjoy it. Had this happened to me, I would have been surprised, but I probably wouldn't have said anything.

[outofit]

I have never owned a restaurant but if this were my restaurant I would probably not have charged for the salad with the hope I would get its value back in repeat business. However, as a long-time diner I expect to pay for what I eat so if I ended up eating (and enjoying) the salad I would feel I should pay for it.

[Davwud]

I would agree with this and am basically on the fence. I would be happy if it were comp'ed but it wasn't necissary.

DT

[camp1980]

agreed

[orangewasabi]

I never feel quite right if I am comped for something I ate, though I certainly understand why it is done and appreciate the gesture.

That said, the real issue is that rotten bit in the salad. that is just not right and would cause me enough serious concern as the server / restauranteur that I would have probably comped you a dessert and the salad.

[OnDaGo]

The bad sald thing is something that I feel is beyond the control of the kitchen... I do not expect any kitchen to indivedually check the letuce leaves that appear in my salad. I am sure they buy it by the bag and wash it, have it in a tub and grab a handfull for each serving. If you did not see it till you were half way through why would they have?

Comping is a nice gesture but that is totally up to the restaurant and I think is expected too much in this day and age. I have seen people order items including mixed drinks and return them not because they were bad but because they did not like them knowing that they would be comped. To me if I eat it I am willing to pay for it. If you would have returned your salad not not gotten a replacement then it should be comped.

[Snarf]

I'm not sure what, if they exist, the rules might be. But from my own perspective, I would expect that under a number of circumstances, some form of effort to improve customer satisfaction should be expected. For example, I've had high end places comp several glasses of wine when the food is inexcusably late (90 minutes between courses); appetizers when the kitchen has sent out the wrong ones (saves wasted food and builds goodwill); or cognac on a special occasion (father's day at the Miller).

Generally, if the restaurant does something that would make a customer think twice about returning, they should make an extra effort at preserving the relationship. More challenging when there are charge-backs to the servers (a bad policy that tends to make them give up more often than make an extra effort). I would have expected the salad to have been examined before being placed on the line. Your rot could just as easily been a large insect, both of which are definitely no-nos. Definitely an apology required at the very least, but with the delay and the multiple errors, they should have deducted the salad, and possibly even poured you and the Mr. a glass of something on the house.

[orangewasabi]

I hear what you're saying since it seems petty to expect inspection of every lettuce leaf.
But as food professionals, yes, I do think part of what I am paying for is for them to ensure that rotten bits are removed. It's part of food prep.

[skylineR33]

I agree completely with outfit and OnDaGo.

[Finnegan]

I sort of diagree with OnDaGo...everything that's put on your plate is the responsibility of the kitchen....it's called quality control. IF the bagged lettuce they buy is crap, it's the their fault for using that supplier not the patrons fault for refusing to eat it. After four trys on the salad a good restauranteur would have comped it...why lose a customer (who had a legitimate complaint) over a few dollars worth of lettuce...cost far more to try to convince a new customer to enter your eatery

[OnDaGo]

Just thinking... Is not getting a new salad (out of most likely the same batch of lettuce) exactly the same as just pulling the bad leaf out of your existing salad and finishing it?

I once found a cockroach in my soup at a company cafeteria. The cook offered me another bowl.. I refused as the roach was obviousley cooked in that batch I returned it not cuz I got the crunchy parts but knowing that the bug had been cooked in it. If the person beside me found a bug in his soup I would not have finished mine.

[revsharkie]

All I can say is ew. But we had this happen once at the cafeteria. A lady came up to me (I was at the cash register at the end of the line) and showed me her dish of green beans with a cockroach in it. I asked her did she want something else in its place, and she said no (had it been me I'm sure I would have completely lost my appetite at that point), so I gave her money back and apologized profusely. Then I went behind the line, pulled the lady serving vegetables back into the kitchen, and showed her the offending bowl of beans, and we pulled the pan of green beans off the line and went back and told the cooks why. Ew.

In the case of a salad with a nasty bite, it's not quite the same as having a whole batchof something cooked with a bug in it, where essence of bug will permeate the whole batch. But that kind of thing does sorta put me off salads.

[Blueicus]

A slightly less extreme example, a customer ordered a salmon course, got it less cooked than they wanted and returned it. I made a replacement, which was completely eaten. About fifteen minutes later the owner comes up to me and informs me that the customer REFUSED to pay for the salmon dish. Not wanting to argue, the owner removes it from the bill. What would you do if you were the owner?

Also, given the slim margins of restaurants after all the overhead, assuming an average food cost of 30%, everytime you comp a dish you start losing money on that dish you "sold". I wouldn't expect a comp as a customer if "eventually" I get the right food AND I eat it all.

[tochipotle]

I see your point, but I can't get over the difference between being served something undercooked/overcooked and being served something that's rotten. Getting a mouthful of gooey rotten lettuce sounds really gross. (Not as gross as OnDaGo's bug story - ugh, not sure I could have kept the soup I ate down after that...)
I think that it depends on the situation. Rabbit, I gather you are somewhat regulars at Caren's? If I were managing and this sort of situation happened to a regular, I would probably comp them - simply because you had a mouthful of rotten lettuce. But there is a bit of give and take too...if the service was quick, accommodating and responsive to your needs - and did provide you with a very good salad which you ate (granted after the 4th try) they do have to make a living.... but the manager should have had the situation under control and served you a proper salad following the rotten incident.
Rabbit, are you willing to go back to Caren's again? I've had issues with some meals at restaurants in the past - I've always found that they way the situation is handled determines my willingness to eat there again.
Case in point: Went out for a burger (starting to eat red meat again!), found a tiny piece of saran wrap like plastic in said burger. It wasn't a huge issue for me, I ate the burger, but at the end of the meal I let the server know about the plastic so that the kitchen could deal with the issue. I had no expectations that they would comp me (I wouldn't call myself a regular yet, but I've been to this restaurant a few times). They were very apologetic, and as a thank you for letting them know so that they could check the rest of the burgers - they comped me. A loss of money for them that night, but I'll be back at the restaurant many times over. And in case any Torontonians would like to go - it was Dr. Generosity's in BWV.

[Blueicus]

I can't say I disagree with the concept of comping, but it really has to be done in extreme moderation and not everytime a little mistake happens and that a replacement can be offered in due time... otherwise you run into that case that your restaurant may always be busy, but your restaurant is still losing money. Also it gives customers expectations that something is to be comped when any little thing goes wrong.

[rebs]

at the last restaurant i worked, if an entree was over or undercooked we would promptly fix the problem, keep it on the bill, and buy their dessert. if they didn't order dessert, we would send out a little something sweet on the house and apologize for the inconvenience. a comped dessert is much less of a loss for the restaurant than a comped entree, but still shows we are recognizing our mistake and offering something to thank them for their patience. most people were very happy with that.

if it was something more substantial, like a hair, bug or piece of plastic i would expect the item to be comped. i've always felt it was a general rule of thumb that if a non-food item is found in my food, it should be on the house. from the house's standpoint, it would probably be best to do as much as possible to keep the guest from second-guessing our food-handling practices so that they a) come back and b) don't go tell everyone about the gross thing they found in their food at our restaurant.

[yayadave]

I agree with everything that has been said. Comp the salad. Don't comp the salad. Eat the salad. Don't eat the salad. Everything.

How about this. Maybe the guy wanted to comp the salad. Maybe he said "Comp the salad" and whoever heard him didn't know what salad he was talking about so three diners got their salads comped, but not the right one. Maybe he wanted to go over to M. and M. Rabbit to apologize and comp their meal in person but found those kids smokin' weed in the _ __ _ _ _ again and remembered about the Rabbits three hours later. Maybe he said "We otta comp dose Wabbits sumptin' " but no one knew what he was talkin' about so no one got comped nuttin'.

By the way, where is Caren's Wine Bar?

[tochipotle]

Yorkville across from Cumberland cinema.

[yayadave]

Thanks. I was just curious. I don't think I'll go there, anyway.

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OH! It's in Toronto!

[Blueicus]

Yorkville is a street and a sort-of neighbourhood name.

[ChefJune]

heeheehee! you forgot the Yorkville section of Manhattan!

[excuse me miss]

tough call. i think it's the corporate franchise restaurants that gave sent out this message to customers that "if (fill in any reason) then i SHOULDN'T have to pay for it". many smaller independant restos don't have these policies. if a customer orders a glass of wine, takes two sips, and decides he doesn't like it- should he have to pay for it? at the end of the day it is up to the resto to do business as they please.

in the OP's case it sounds like it was just one of those murphy's law moments. i've had the lettuce thing happen to me too- it shouldn't happen but i believe it's a result of the weather here in toronto. it sounds like they at least had a good attitude about all the send backs. BUT- while i don't necessarily think they "should" have comped your salad, it would have been a "nice gesture" if they had aknowledged the hassle you went through by offering you a little something on the house- a dessert for the two of you to share, a sample of a dessert wine, etc. like i said, it's up to the resto how they want to do business. no rules on what they "should" do, but lots of ideas of what they "could" do to be good hosts.

[mojoeater]

If you eat it, you should expect to pay for it. It seems the kitchen should have gotten it right the first time, but the front of house handled it very well. Each time you had an issue they resolved it. And the final result was a "very nice" salad. Chalk it up to one minor snafu (a bit of bad lettuce) and return in good spirits.

[cocktailqueen77]

Agree with EMM and mojoeater, the salad should be on the bill if it was consumed entirely. I do think that the restaurant could have offered something along the lines of an after dinner drink, or dessert, to compensate you for the rotten lettuce and three mishaps before finally getting the initial salad ordered. Each individual restaurant and management is different. I worked in a place where, if that situation had happened, you would have probaly been comped the salad, given a glass of wine, and walked out with a gift certificate. Whereas I have seen management not even blink an eye, or care (to say the least that rest wasn't open long).

[ccbweb]

As is often the case, I'm right with both EMM and mojoeater on in this case. Especially mojoeater. If, after the second or third attempt at the salad they'd offered to bring another and you'd said "no thanks, i'll just skip it" or something to that effect, then it shouldn't be on the bill. Since you at the salad eventually, then you should expect to pay for it. It sounds like some hassle, but also some of the better and more gracious service in terms of fixing it that I've heard about recently.

I'd happily return to such a restaurant confident that if there is an issue with something I've ordered, I'll be able to address it and they're likely to remedy the situation without undue trouble.

[Rabbit]

From my own perspective... I'm totally on the fence.

On one hand, I ate the salad, actually enjoyed the salad (in the end... and kind of annoying that it did arrive at the very end of our meal, but I was semi-desperate hungry)... and I should (and do!) expect to pay for what I consume.

But on the other hand, as a four-time loser... I'd comp or provide some recompense (wine, dessert) if this were my restaurant. The first incident of forgotten cheese was nothing - we didn't even blink... but the rotten bits were gross, and while of course handpicking each lettuce bit is unreasonable, they had clearly opened a new lettuce bag by salad #4 (Mr. had wilty and faded lettuce as did my first and second salads, but nothing actually rotten) - and probably just should have opened said bag sooner. By botched try #3 we were all laughing (nobody got bitchy or rude)... but I still think the whole experience was a bit of bad karma that I would try to offset if I owned the place.

And, again, the other things we ordered were so great.. the real pity is that we're still talking about the boring salad.

Finally, I would go back... I think Caren's is one of the best options in Yorkville (and, yayadave, this was originally posted on the Toronto board, where the Yorkville reference was less ambiguous)... but Mr. would not... he's much less tolerant of anything he perceives as "less than" service.

Thanks for weighing in... Rab-bit!

[jfood]

Jfood thinks the salad should have been comped. Four tries to get it right and it's the kitchen's total responsibility to get it right the first time and every time . Ok the cheese was missing ang that happens so no comp at this point. When the bad lettuce comes by on try number 2 and then is wrong on number 3, well number 4 is on the resto. They did not comp, you had a great meal and life goes on. If you liked the place and it sounds wonderful, please go back.

When you return mention the incident to the owner/MOD to give him a head';s up that you cam eback in spite of the salad issue the previous time. You;ll probably have a well inspected meal.

[sweetnspicy]

Jfood I love your responses!!

[Bite Me]

If the restaurant were smart, they would have not charged for the salad. And, then you would have felt better about the whole experience and the tip would have been better. I am assuming that because the salad was charged, the server got a lower tip. I am not familiar with Caren-where is it?

[sweetnspicy]

You should NOT have been charged for the salad!! If there is a mistake made, understandable, two times somethings not right, three times inappropriate!! In no way is it acceptable for you to be charged.

[cocktailqueen77]

You have to see it from the restaurants point of view: a salad is consumed, it is charged to the bill. Point blank. If the salad was sent back and to be replaced by another item, because there was a problem, it would have (more than likely) been comped. But because the OP ordered the same salad, even after the nasty gross issue, and then ate the (fourth) replacement the issue slides to the side of the restaurant charging for such salad. Although it is a complete embarrasment to the restaurant to serve a bad salad, they should have offered MANY things after that (wine, after dinner drinks, dessert, ect). I actually think this is not an issue of the kitchen (excluding nasty lettuce thing) but of the FOS not getting the order right from the beginning. Dressing on side and other specifications are done by hand or computer and then the kitchen follows those instructions. The server/bartender/runner should have read the order slip and deliver the correct salad from the get-go.

[Midlife]

We had dinner last night (at Bluewater Grill, in Newport Beach, CA) and a salad that was ordered with dressing on the side came already dressed. The person who ordered just doesn't like spinach salad 'drenched' in dressing and this one was.

Here's some good restaurant PR for you: The salad had been split betweeen two people and one was fine with it pre-dressed, the other not. The server offered to replace the one-half, but another person in the party said "Just leave it. Someone will eat it". She then brought a replacement of a half-wedge with dressing on the side. At the end of the meal she told us she had not charged us for EITHER salad, and we couldn't talk her into putting them back on the bill. Needless to say she got a good tip.

I'm not sure this is how they handle every such situation, and we DID have a few relatively minor additonal problems that could have added to the result. First, two Louie salads that had to be sent back because they had been ordered with crab only and were brought with crab/shrimp combined. Then, I ordered Softshell Crab and they had run out of it by 7:30. But....... these were all relatively minor things and the way they handled them was very apologetically, so we were OK with everything.

[FrankJBN]

"we couldn't talk her into putting them back on the bill."

Do I understand this correctly? The restaurant, made a mistake, did not correct it, then, as a courtesy, told you that you would not be charged because they had made a mistake.

You then (your party apparently - "we") attempted to talk them into charging you?

Why? If they had given your party a birthday cake, would you have attempted to talk them into charging for that? Why or why not?

[ozakilli]

I would not charge for the salad offer complimentary desert and give gift certificate to the patron. After all employee's fault is the owner's fault....

[MeMeMe]

Salad should have been comped. Chalk it up to a bad server or a bad day at Caren's. I've always had great experiences there.

[camp1980]

As I was reading this thread I was reminded of a time when I was working as a server.
A table had ordered a pasta that was suppose to have pine nuts on it. The kitchen was out of pine nuts and did not bother to tell me this and I served the table the pasta. When I went back to check on the table they told me that there were no pine nuts on the pasta and they had specifically order the pasta for the pine nuts (fair enough). I got the manager/owner for them. The women at the table told my manager that she refused to pay for the pasta since it did not have the pine nuts on it. Then she picked up her fork and took a big bite of pasta.

My manager told her that the pasta would be taken off the bill and took the plate away from the lady. The lady was shocked (to say the least).

I always chuckle when I think of this story cause it goes to show that people have this sense of entitlement. (I am not talking about you Rabbit, your situtation was very different). This table decided that since one ingrident was not included in their pasta that they should be entitled to eat the meal for free. My manager did offer the table a free drink or dessert since it was our mistake but the table just had it in their mind that they weren't going to pay for the pasta.

[Finnegan]

Kinda funny...unless you were the paying customer or the owner of the place. A smart manager would have given the customer the option of a different meal (for which she would pay) or continue on with the pasta sans pine nuts at a reduced price. Whisking the plate away may have been what she deserved but probably lost the place a customer for sure. Ask any restaurateur...it's far cheaper to keep an existing customer than to try to attract a new one