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St. Louis recommendations

c
ClevelandRandy Jun 20, 2007 02:16 PM

Two close friends will be in STL from Thursday until Sunday in mid-July, staying downtown, but mobile. We love good food, especially if served in a fun environment (i.e., not stuffy, pretentious or overly precious). Some of the places we're thinking about are as follows, and I'd love to hear CURRENT thoughts on them, since in reading the postings on here, some of them seem to be up or down over time:

Niche
Sidney St.
Balaban
Chez Leon
Vin de Set
Eleven Eleven
King Louie's
Red Moon
Atlas

We only have 3 dinners, but to the extent that any of these are open for lunch, that might work too. Also, are there any recommended breakfast places? Thanks, in advance!!

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  1. s
    shannoninstlouis Jun 20, 2007 07:21 PM

    If I had to choose 3 off that list to fit your criteria, I'd go with Eleven Eleven, Vin de Set, (they are owned by the same people) and Sidney St. Vin de Set has great outdoor dining so you could always stop by there for a drink if you can't fit it in. Also in that Lafayette Square neighborhood is 33 Wine Bar and Bailey's Chocolate Bar, good places for drinks and snacks. To me, 1111 has good food and a relaxed atmosphere. Some people feel it has slipped since they opened VDS, but I haven't seen that personally.

    Sidney St. has been a favorite for years, it's probably not the most trendy place in town, but people here love it.

    Personally, I find Niche to be a bit off-putting, kind of trendier than thou, but I know it is very popular. Red Moon also seemed to be more style than substance. I haven't been to Chez Leon for a long time nor to Balaban's since its new owners took over. I haven't tried Atlas, although it gets raves around town. King Louie's is not my favorite.

    1. jberendzen Jun 21, 2007 08:19 PM

      I would agree with shannoninstlouis about 1111 and Vin de Set. Try to get one night on the rooftop at Vin de Set. All of the places you list are what I would consider "upscale": I think you will get a great meal from all of them. Knowing that you are from out of town, I would try to steer you to places I think will provide a nice atmosphere before or after your meal. I like Balabans in the Central West End, because I think the neighborhood is beautiful. I also like anything along Washington Avenue, because I think the urban renewal happening there is great, but I''m not a big fan of Red Moon - I would suggest Mosaic, or maybe An American Place. I also like a bunch of other Wash Ave places: Wasabi, Kitchen K, Lucas Park Grill - more modest places.

      I would also suggest the outdoor patios at McGurks or Norton's in Soulard. I love Soulard - very cool neighborhood. These places are informal, Cheeseburger and a beer type of places, but sometimes those are great places for friends to hang out. St. Louis in July - hot and steamy but both of those outdoor patios are great places even in hot weather.

      Other posters will have opinions about these places for sure.

      Hope you enjoy your trip!

      1. k
        kbeckstl Jun 22, 2007 07:56 AM

        Vin de Set has a wonderful outdoor rooftop patio. I'm not a fan of their food, but the experience outways that. However, we've been having some pretty hot humid weather, so I wouldn't go if you can't tolerate that. Atlas is very good. Locals love Sidney St., but I haven't been in a long time. Niche is very intimate, so if your looking for more of a lively atmosphere, I'd choose Balabans. There is also a new dessert option in the Central West End you could go to after Balabans, Bissinger's Chocolate Experience. Haven't been yet, but sounds like it's worth a try. For breakfast or Sunday Brunch try Nadoz in Midtown.

        1 Reply
        1. re: kbeckstl
          g
          gourmaniac Jun 22, 2007 10:45 AM

          I'm not a local but visited recently and had an excellent homemade fettucine with morels bacon and peas at Balabans. Very good and reasonably priced (compared to Boston). Pretty neighborhood too.

        2. m
          mister Jun 23, 2007 06:49 PM

          So-so food at Vin de Set, and though I haven't been, I'd assume the same about 1111 since it's owned by the same people and has the same chef. Chez Leon has nice atmosphere, solid bistro standards, and the set menu is a good value. Because it's been around longer than any of the other places on your list except Balabans, it shouldn't be swamped as the others on a fri. or sat. (St. louisans tend to hit new, in-vogue restaurants hard initially). Which brings me to Niche. I had one of the best meals there several weeks ago, but that was on a sunday. Fri and sat. would be too busy for my tastes. Atlas-updated french/california style food. Though you didn't mention it, I've heard very good things about Franco, and it would be hard to go wrong with Terrene as Bill Cardwell is the Chef and is very consistent. They use a lot of local and/or organic products.

          6 Replies
          1. re: mister
            z
            zataar Jun 23, 2007 07:45 PM

            BIll Cardwell is the chef at Terrene??? I thought it was someone else.
            I have to second Atlas. We love Atlas.

            1. re: zataar
              bobzemuda Jun 23, 2007 10:42 PM

              Dave Owens, formerly of Cardwell's Frontenac, is the chef at Terrene...for now. He and his wife are now leaving Terrene. For what though, I'm not sure.

              Bill Cardwell still runs his Frontenac Cardwell's location though he has no affiliation with the Clayton location as he lost it to his wife when they divorced.

              I think Chez Leon is horrendously overated. I finally ate there a couple months ago and have no idea why people like it so much. I wasn't expecting the world, as it's just a French Bistro, but at that they failed miserably because when you're making food that simple, it should at least be well seasoned, and it was not.

              I've had far better, for far less.

              1. re: bobzemuda
                p
                p.j. Jun 25, 2007 09:45 AM

                bobzemuda,
                Has Dave Owens now left Terrene?
                We were there for dinner last night for the first time. While we weren't bowled over by most of the food- our friends thought the stir-fried tofu and seitan selections were just o.k.(the tofu was served as a large, single piece atop the couscous, so there was a lot of bland tofu that the rub didn't reach, and the seitan pieces were on noodles, which my friend did not expect), and the salmon on my salmon stew was a bit dry and lacked flavor--except for the last piece, which had a little too much flavor, and seemed past its prime, the veggie flatbread was delicious. The veggie sausage on the flatbread was the best I have ever had--in fact, it made us a little nervous because we don't eat pork, and it seemed too good to be veggie.
                Just curious about who was in the kitchen last night.
                BTW, our waitress was delightful, as was the hostess. Excellent service.
                p.j.

                1. re: p.j.
                  s
                  shannoninstlouis Jun 25, 2007 12:30 PM

                  There is a note on the Sauce website that he will be leaving at the end of June.
                  http://www.saucemagazine.com/bytes.php

                  1. re: shannoninstlouis
                    p
                    p.j. Jun 26, 2007 08:10 AM

                    Thanks, Shannon. p.j.

                    1. re: p.j.
                      t
                      tmphelan Aug 28, 2007 10:02 AM

                      I was at Terrene a few nights ago (8/25/07) and Dave Owens had his extended family, a big group, out on the patio for dinner. Obviously the separation was quite amicable. He and his wife simply wanted time to spend with their two young children. Hard for people to believe but that's the whole story. He is still very good friends with the ownership and hangs out there a lot. Food is still great.

          2. c
            ClevelandRandy Jun 26, 2007 11:18 AM

            OK, I'm starting to narrow it down to a few pairs, thanks to the expert advice of you STL chowhounds, so any further advice would be fully appreciated:

            Niche or Sidney St. (is Niche too intimate for a non-romantic dinner?)
            Eleven Eleven or Vin de Set (for atmosphere, from the sounds of it, more than for food)
            Atlas or Balabans or Franco (would one of these override one of the other 4 places?)

            3 Replies
            1. re: ClevelandRandy
              b
              bonwich Jun 26, 2007 12:42 PM

              1) Other way around. Sidney is romantic; Niche can be loud.
              2) Eleven Eleven for food, Vin de Set for atmosphere, although Eleven Eleven has good atmosphere as well.
              3) I'd choose Atlas and Franco over Balaban's. Atlas if you want a simpler French cafe atmosphere, Franco if you dig coolly rehabbed turn-of-the-20th Century warehouse spaces.

              1. re: ClevelandRandy
                a
                Abbers81 Jun 26, 2007 06:21 PM

                You MUST go to Niche. And I don't use all capitals lightly. The food is top notch and, in my opinion, a steal given the high quality. The chef is also super friendly, and the service has been excellent each time I have gone. Sidney St. is of course good (I've been going there since I was a little girl), but it is definitely much heavier than Niche (buttery rolls, buttery sauces, etc.).
                Chez Leon is another favorite of mine, but it depends on how important of a factor a "hip" atmosphere is to you. It is traditional french fare with a price fixe menu. Escargot to die for...fresh and delicious fish...GREAT steak frites...the sides really never change (always a veggie and potatoes of some sort).
                Balabans went under new ownership recently, and I have yet to try their new menu. I hear it is a bit on the heavier side.
                King Louies is good but LOUD. And usually crowded.
                Honestly, I would go to Niche, Sidney St. and (insert other choice here). Also, have you looked at Savour at all? Also quite yummy and a really neat atmosphere.

                1. re: Abbers81
                  d
                  ddfry3 Jun 26, 2007 06:45 PM

                  As a solo diner I had a great meal at Niche in Jan., on a cold winter's night. It was still full!

              2. Wayno Jun 28, 2007 08:33 PM

                I'd summarily scratch Sidney St., Balaban and Chez Leon. And then I'd omit Eleven Eleven. I'd add Terrene and Pomme and Modesto. Niche is good for romance if you can get a table toward the back wall, but even if not, it's fun, the people are great and food is the best in town. It's creative food without being precious or attitudinal. Sidney St. is pretty old school - pretty great through the apps and then it's tiresome. Comparing Sidney St. to Niche is like comparing an old wood frame tennis racquet to a new carbon fiber model. There is no comparison. Modesto serves very good tapas in a fun atmosphere, but, unlike BARcelona, the other tapas restaurant, the emphasis is on the food not on the 20-something bar scene. Atlas is always quite good, and it's subdued, not the least bit pretentious and incredibly reasonable. Pomme is the same. Neither have bar scenes. I'm going to check out Acero in the next week or so; maybe that will make the list.

                6 Replies
                1. re: Wayno
                  bobzemuda Jun 29, 2007 06:59 AM

                  Wayno...our thoughts are always so similar that I'll have to check Pomme out again. I had an atrocious time there several years ago for Valentine's Day. The final straw of which was my being served an entree on a cold plate with cold mashed potatoes. It was obvious they'd scooped them onto the plate and then it sat while they plated my wifes dish.

                  I agree with everything else written here, however. We've been in quite a rut recently as we just flop back and forth between Niche and Atlas for the most part. It's hard not to continue to go to places where you know the food will be good and the service will be personable as you are a known diner who appreciates what they're doing on a different level then most.

                  My wife and I were cleaning the house the other day and we came across one of the menus I'd saved from Arthur Clay's. It really made us sad to think that someone had created that kind of food in St. Louis, but that we, as a city, couldn't sustain that level of quality. Sure there were a few misses along the way as he tried to hit upon flavors that might be a little abrasive. On this menu, for instance, there was coffee crusted foie gras which I didn't particularly care for. There was also, however, a d roasted apple soup with pepper creme fraiche which was astonishingly good, and still the soup that sticks out in both my wife and I'd mind as "best soup ever".

                  Acero had poor service but good food when we went. It was when they were still doing the $25 three course "feed me" thing, however, so it might have had something to do with the value as well. Also, it was the only restaurant I've ever almost left do to noise. It's amazingly loud, and I asked to move basically stating that they either move me out of the back room, which was like an echo chamber, or I would be taking my money elsewhere.

                  Bill (not bob)

                  1. re: bobzemuda
                    Wayno Jun 29, 2007 01:33 PM

                    Bill (not bob), yeah I've heard a similar report re Acero from a good friend whose input I trust - liked most of the food very much, but there was a service issue. It seemed very inexperienced and confused, but the waitresses personality compensated for it. Hopefully, that gets ironed out (and the service doesn't become attitudinal and arrogant as i found it to be at Crossing, which is of common ownership I believe). I also understand, as you know from having now eaten there, that Acero has opened up the space which, when it was A. Clay's, was 2 separate rooms - that, at least asthetically, appears to be a big improvement, but may contribute to the noise (which, I think, can be remedied partially by adding certain materials/fabrics here and there, as I've seen done elsewhere). I also understand that there's a patio dining area at Acero, which is the best place to be. I will report on next weekend's experience there (we couldn't get into Niche at a suitable time for my wife's b/day). BTW, Steve Scherrer, the former Arthur Clay's chef has, according to Sauce, taken over at Cafe Eau, which I think bodes well for a place that has been a real roller coaster of quality. I hope he does well there because, first, I'd like that to be a consistently good restaurant and, second, I took a sauces class from him and really liked the guy.

                    1. re: Wayno
                      c
                      ClevelandRandy Jul 16, 2007 04:29 PM

                      Thanks to all of you STL 'hounds. We wound up doing a whole Lafayette Sq. night on Thursday (wine bar for wine and cheese, then Vin de Set for drinks, then 1111 for a light bite), and it was quite a night. None of these was thoroughly impressive, but taken as a group, it was a great evening. Friday was Franco, which was very good (great sweetbreads and tempura avacado apps, nice wine list, great atmosphere and service) and we totally enjoyed walking around the Soulard neighborhood. Saturday was Niche, which was the best of the bunch. Loved that their menu offers smaller portions, thereby allowing one to try more things. Service was great and the crowd was fun and friendly (nice, since you're sitting on top of each other). A wonderful evening. AND I also was introduced at breakfast to what apparently is a STL concoction: the Slinger. Great for a hangover (replaces it with simple heartburn). Thanks again for your helpful suggestions - can't wait to get back to STL.

                      1. re: ClevelandRandy
                        bobzemuda Jul 16, 2007 08:42 PM

                        what day did you eat at Niche? I know they were supposed to make a menu change away form the straight 3 courses for $35 that they'd been doing, and it sounds like they did it in the form of the smaller portions.

                        If so...it sounds like I need a reservation.

                        1. re: bobzemuda
                          c
                          ClevelandRandy Jul 17, 2007 08:54 AM

                          We started with the cheese plate, and had 5 cheeses. Even there there were only 2 of us - we couldn't decide, and we totally love cheese. Therefore, we skipped appetizers, and had smaller versions of main courses (most, but not all, mains are offered in 2 sizes). I had a steak of some sort, with bread pudding and pattipan squash. I forget what my companion had, but I remember he liked it. We had an awesome bottle of Malbec. They also have the 3 course thing, but the selections weren't wonderful.

                          1. re: ClevelandRandy
                            bobzemuda Jul 18, 2007 09:06 PM

                            It was probably the rib eye with the goat cheese bread pudding.

                2. k
                  Knowalittle Jun 26, 2008 09:42 AM

                  Balaban's, Red Moon and King Louie's are all closed now. the others are good choices. Also consider Cardwell's at the Plaza for lunch or dinner, SqWires for lunch or dinner, Almond's or Portabella Restaurant. All of those are great.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: Knowalittle
                    alan Jun 26, 2008 11:44 AM

                    This string is almost a year old.

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