410372 Mon Jun 11 14:38:25 -0700 2007 30 55 Mexico 0 2650045 Just got back...not a comprehensive list but wanted to share a few places I loved. Restaurante Los Pacos: Really, really delicious moles. We did not receive the mole sampler as noted in the Lonely Planet book, just chips and 3 delicious hot sauces. My friends ordered mole combos (negro, colorado, amarillo, verde) and I had the enmoladas which came with negro. Unbelievable--the richest, most complex mole I've ever tasted. El Baresito: this is mainly a bar, but they give "free snacks" with drinks. What you get is totally homey comfort food which seems to just keep coming the longer you sit there. We had peanuts covered in chili powder and lime, small bowls of caldo, jicama with chili sauce, chicken tacos...everything tasted like small eats you'd get in someone's home. Very friendly staff. Tacos Alvaro: crazy, funny cook, possibly owner? We had lengua and al pastor tacos here...so fresh, with some really great hot sauces. La Biznaga: Slightly more upscale. Really interesting moles made from guava or berries, great fish, tons more interesting options. A rich 4-cheese tortilla soup made a great starter. Staff was also very polite here, space was beautiful. http://www.labiznaga.org/menu1.htm 20 de Noviembre mercado: well, everything was good here, and dirt cheap. But I wanted to especially note that the tamales at Alejandra's were AMAZING, and the first fruit juice stand you encounter when entering from 20 de Noviembre is excellent as well, with some really unique options (ordered a mixed beet juice by accident...didn't know the word for beets). Mayordomo: obvious, but might as well mention. This chocolate shop was worthy of a daily visit. I have to say I was really impressed with chocolate con agua, it is lighter with a unique flavor. But it's definitely a bit more yummy with milk. Also a biiig fan of choco mio, the cold version, which tastes way better than Quik but appears to be essentially the same thing :). I also loved how they were constantly passing around samples of the frothy choco mio to anyone in the store. Mon Jun 11 14:38:26 -0700 2007 15456 NancyC 1 2650065 Adding some photos... Mon Jun 11 14:44:46 -0700 2007 2650045 15456 NancyC 1 2650130 Mmmmm...great. Thank you. Mon Jun 11 15:05:27 -0700 2007 2650045 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 2650185 ..thanks for sharing.... it has been years since traveling deep into Mexico and am thinking of returning soon. When I am there, most of my time is spent sipping on agua frescas or cervezas, so I am wondering if there is any truth that the Coca-Cola made in Mexico tastes any different/better/sweeter than the beverage made in the States?? I've heard and read that the sugar cane used in Mexico produces a nice product... any thoughts?? thanks again... Mon Jun 11 15:19:06 -0700 2007 2650045 93018 mixnblend 1 2650267 My mouth waters with the menu options.... among many other things the Steak with Goat Cheese, Mushrooms & Mole Coloradito.... and the Grilled White Fish marinated Al Pastor with Grilled Pineapple, Green Onions & Nopales.... sound very, very enticing! Sadly nothing like that in Northern California =( Mon Jun 11 15:43:42 -0700 2007 2650045 42572 Eat_Nopal 2 2650640 I know! In retrospect I should have tried the steak because yum, goat cheese and coloradito, but I was soooo curious about the mole made from berries. Mon Jun 11 17:47:53 -0700 2007 2650267 15456 NancyC 3 2651891 So what did you think? The interesting thing about using tropical fruits & berries in salsas & moles is that most people assume its a Nueva / Alta Cocina innovation. But its actually as old as caldo (that is a common saying in Spanish)... and the result of scarcity. A couple of uncles married into Xochimilco natives that still speak Nahuatl quite well... they explained to me that Tomatillos and to a lesser degree Tomatoes are the preffered base / bulk for most Salsas & Moles... but even with Mexico's seemingly eternal growing season... there are times when they aren't available.... but Salsas & Moles MUST be made.... so they scavenge around for whatever is acceptable typically Prickly Pears, Guayabas, Zapote, Blackberries, Pineapple, Coconut Meat, Oranges, Papaya, Mango etc., Tue Jun 12 07:30:42 -0700 2007 2650640 42572 Eat_Nopal 4 2651914 Really really delicious. As tempting as the steak sounds, I'd be up for getting fruit moles again in a heartbeat. I had the berry, my friend had the guava so I got a taste of that as well. The guava dish had a really beautiful presentation, the photo is on the website. They both definitely had interesting flavors, seemingly no chocolate at all :). I felt the guava had a slight edge, but maybe it's just because as a fruit I prefer guava to berries and the overall components were more appealing. Tue Jun 12 07:37:47 -0700 2007 2651891 15456 NancyC 5 2651951 The vast majority of moles don't have any chocolate at all. But, what other flavors were you able to identify into those fruit moles... did you still get onions, garlic, herbs, dried chiles, blackened bread & tortillas etc. To be fair most moles have fruit.... banana, raisins, currants etc., but they just melt into the overall savoryness. Were these more fruit forward & sweet.... or did the fruit still play more of a background role? Tue Jun 12 07:47:27 -0700 2007 2651914 42572 Eat_Nopal 6 2652045 Definitely on the sweet side. Couldn't tell you about tasting blackened tortillas, but there was a smokiness to the berry one that wasn't as apparent in the guava. I would say it was pretty balanced...garlic, onions and chiles did not stand out strongly. Tue Jun 12 08:17:44 -0700 2007 2651951 15456 NancyC 1 2651921 "Also a biiig fan of choco mio..." Just a wee note: that would be chocomil (cho-ko-MEEL), the Mexican name for chocolate milk. Link: http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com Tue Jun 12 07:39:52 -0700 2007 2650045 24772 cristina 2 2652043 It's the brand name Mayordomo uses...should have capitalized it. Choco Mio. Tue Jun 12 08:16:20 -0700 2007 2651921 15456 NancyC 1 2654366 Great calls, Nancy! I am actually down in Oaxaca still and have certainly enjoyed some of these same spots: Biznaga Alvaro Los Pacos All three were great in my opinion for such different reasons. Los Pacos: I did have the good fortune of getting the "mole sampler" at Los Pacos. And, not to "rub it in" but it was amazing! The "seventh mole" (which I have found challenging to find at other restaurants) - chichile (sp?) is included and must be my favorite mole. It's rich like the mole negro, but it's a touch lighter (physically, not in color), and it has a stronger hint of smoke/toast. I don't speak much Spanish yet (working on it!) so I did not catch the full explanation of the difference. But, this mole is great. You definitely will have to search for it on your next trip. Alvaro: Great dive for tacos and pozole. I actually did not think the pozole was the best I have had, but it is tasty. The tacos are the way to go here, I think. Super cheap and seem incredibly fresh. Biznaga: Yeah, classy joint. What I really like about this place is that the prices are not that much higher than other places. The food is really good and the menu is very creative (as far as I can tell). The quesadilla sampler ("tres mixtecas") is fantastic and at less than 40 pesos, you cannot beat that anywhere in the city. Add to that the INCREDIBLE spicy, nutty, smoky salsa you get, and I am in heaven! Also, I like the touch of fresh-cut carrots and/or jicama (instead of peanuts) as accompaniment to drinks. Though I do miss those spicy-garlicky peanuts! Also, the beers are well-priced here and they carry the more rare "Buena Noche" (a good night indeed at nearly 6% alcohol, by volume). :) I am loving the food down here and welcome any further recs. I will certainly give Baresito a try soon. Tue Jun 12 18:19:13 -0700 2007 2650045 47939 JCR 2 2654377 Its Chichilo... the grand smoke mole... made dark by burning all kinds of ingredients to ashes. And its Noche Buena.... a seasonal christmas beer (they must stock up).... if you are out looking for some great beers ask for Cucupa (Tijuana microbrew) or Casta (Monterrey microbrews). Tue Jun 12 18:23:01 -0700 2007 2654366 42572 Eat_Nopal 3 2654568 Thanks, Eat Nopal. Your name reminds me I had a great nopal salad here the other day. Really a nice, simply creation of nopales, tomatoes, onions, and cilantro, with a light dressing. As you seem to know most things related to Oaxacan food, do you know what the equivalent to guanabana is in English? Also, what's the difference between Chocolate Atole and Champurrado. I have seen both on a menu, and after ordering, I can only ascertain that it has something to do with how much "whipping" you do to prepare the drinks, as Champurrado was much thicker. But, chocolate atole had a foamier head. Any thoughts? Thanks! Tue Jun 12 19:30:15 -0700 2007 2654377 47939 JCR 4 2654803 Guanabana = soursop (if I recall correctly) Tue Jun 12 21:11:22 -0700 2007 2654568 36661 Sam Fujisaka 5 2654834 Yup Tue Jun 12 21:23:18 -0700 2007 2654803 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 2660504 Thanks, Sam Thu Jun 14 12:49:16 -0700 2007 2654803 47939 JCR 4 2654839 You have me stumped on the Atole vs Champurrado.... hopefully you can figure it out. Was one more Choclatey than the other, perhaps? Tue Jun 12 21:24:22 -0700 2007 2654568 42572 Eat_Nopal 5 2655821 I thought Champurrado = Chocolate Atole? I only had this once, from a street vendor...thought it was OK, not on par with regular chocolate con leche, and when I got on the very twisty bus to the coast later that night...I think the champurrado contributed quite a bit to my nausea. Wed Jun 13 08:44:23 -0700 2007 2654839 15456 NancyC 6 2662727 Yes which is why its confusing that they offered two products... there must be some difference between them. Fri Jun 15 06:51:26 -0700 2007 2655821 42572 Eat_Nopal 7 2663223 I believe atole is thickened with corn starch and champurado with masa. At least thats how my 94yr old Abuelita makes them. Fri Jun 15 09:06:07 -0700 2007 2662727 81377 mrszondo 8 2663482 Well its possible.... but traditional Atole is made with Masa... its only post-industrial times that corn starch has been used... and mostly as a convenience product used among urban dwellers. Fri Jun 15 10:05:34 -0700 2007 2663223 42572 Eat_Nopal 9 2698094 Success! I found the answer to the difference between these two drinks (champurrado and chocolate atole). I also did one last comparison tasting (from two "authentic" sources of each drink) and they are actually quite different drinks. Chocolate atole is - pinole (a "polvo" (powdered mix) of maize, cocoa, and sugar) - milk - atole So, to make this drink, you "foam" (espuma) the milk and pinole together. This part is COLD. Then, you put this on top of the HOT atole in a small bowl. Champurrado is actually simpler, but the name for the drink above makes it confusing. Champurrado is quite literally HOT chocolate atole. To make it, you actually mix chocolate (i.e. those Oaxacan bars of super sweet chocolate) into atole. Then you "foam it up" a bit and serve. Unlike the previous drink which has a HOT "bottom" and a COLD "top", this drink is completely HOT. Also, the consistency of this drink is a bit thicker and more uniform throughout. Whereas the drink above (chocolate atole) is thick on bottom (hot atole) and more "airy-foamy" on top (cold "foamed" milk-pinole mixture.) What a fun investigation that was! Tue Jun 26 22:19:45 -0700 2007 2663482 47939 JCR 2 2655827 So do you have to actually ask for the mole sampler? It was listed in the guidebook as an automatic thing that arrives when you sit, but we got 3 salsas instead. Would have LOVED to try chichilo! Wed Jun 13 08:45:33 -0700 2007 2654366 15456 NancyC 3 2660500 Ok, hey, folks. Sorry for the delay in responding. Had to study up for an exam at school! :) Back to food now. As for the Atole vs Champurrado debate, it seems it may be a fruitless endeavor. Many folks have assured me they are indeed one and the same drink. But, since I have been to a restaurant where both are listed separately and I have tasted both, I know there must be some difference. I have asked several folks (including one very credible old lady who teaches my cooking class here). And, although my Spanish is not great enough to understand the nuanced difference from her explanation, from best I can tell the ingredients are the same, but the time and temperatures at which you add ingredients is slightly different. Also, as I think I mentioned, the "foaming" process (where you use that nifty little twirling stick that seems to be the precursor to a whisk) may differ between champurrado and chocolate atole. From tasting the two at the restaurant, I would say champurrado is thicker and "chocolatier." It's also a bit smoother. The chocolate atole was sweeter, a bit lighter in color, and slightly grainier (not sure if the grainy texture was from the maize or the sugar) Ok, gotta run, but will add more to later posts. Thu Jun 14 12:48:44 -0700 2007 2655827 47939 JCR 4 2660513 A note: we have champurrado here in Colombia. Not very good and not like the atole in Mexico and Guatemala. Thu Jun 14 12:51:38 -0700 2007 2660500 36661 Sam Fujisaka 1 2666372 We frequently go to Oaxaca but have not been able to recently for a variety of issues beyond our control. I am interested in knowing whether some of our favorite places managed to weather the difficulties of the past year. I understand that El Naranjo has closed. Could someone report on whether the following are still operating: La Olla, Quince Letras, Cafe Antigua (the coffee place across the street on the corner from La Olla); Azul, Dos Jorges (I could be wrong about the name--I'm talking about the seafood place on the east side of El Llano), and I can't remember the name of the restaurant but it was a beautiful upscale place with a pool (decorative, not swimming) by the dining area with tall adobe columns. Any news would be much appreciated. Sat Jun 16 12:07:11 -0700 2007 2650045 19003 PAO 2 2698070 I just got back from a month in Oaxaca. Although I lived with a family and ate all my meals with them, I put my best "chowhound" foot forward and squeezed in a few meals on the side. I also walked extensively about the city, checking out the places mentioned above. I can confirm that the following are still open as of June 2007: La Olla - still making good food. I had a nice chilled "crema" of avocado. It was VERY thick, but felt more "fluffy" and voluminous than rich and heavy. Also, the tamal with mole negro was great. Cafe Antigua - still brewing fresh coffee beans. Tres leches cake here was probably the best dessert I had during my entire stay. (I caveat that with the fact that I found most breads/pastries/desserts leaving a bit to be desired. As a francophile raised in the French tradition of baguettes, croissants, and millefeuilles, I am a harsher critic of baked goods. But, I honestly felt this was a good piece of cake.) Marco Polo is on the east side of El Llano and is renown for its seafood. It is still open, but I did not get a chance to try it out. (I assume this is what you are referring to when you mentioned "Dos Jorges." I do not recall a restaurant by the name Dos Jorges.) Unfortunately, I cannot comment on Azul, Quince Letras or the unnamed one with a pool. Hope that helps. Tue Jun 26 22:09:27 -0700 2007 2666372 47939 JCR 3 2699951 Since I met JCR in our cooking class at our language school in Oaxaca, I thought I'd chime in. I've been eating mainly with my family as well, and the mother is an amazing cook, so if anyone is visiting Oaxaca and needs a place to stay, email me at the address in my profile. The family maintains these little studios behind their house and she regularly makes fantastic tamales with mole negro, mole coloradito, this estofada that I loved and can't find much information on, etc., etc. Also just went to La Olla and had a very tasty tomato-tortilla soup, so-so nopales tacos. Found out I really like "suero," beer with lime juice with the top of the mug rimmed in salt. Had a great meal at Casa Oaxaca, really good horchata at Aguas Casilda in Mercado Juarez, and great tacos that were heavy on sauteed vegetables at the Mercado Organico. In a few weeks, I'm going to Susanna Trilling's cooking school in Etla. I'll definitely post more as I eat more. Wed Jun 27 12:03:56 -0700 2007 2698070 10697 AppleSister 4 2700362 In Oaxaca I strongly recommend a restaurant/buffet called La Escondida. It serves traditional food from the region and is delicious, plus a pretty good bargain. Wed Jun 27 13:39:57 -0700 2007 2699951 108118 cefaz