41011 Fri Nov 04 15:19:53 -0800 2005 25 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 197197 My gourmet friend is in town from Indonesia. Pls help !! Thanks, Han Fri Nov 04 15:19:53 -0800 2005 0 Han Lukito 1 197201 All about the same. Usually, you can get those 1st growth bordeaux during May-July. (lafite, haut-brion, mouton...) visit this link for more info... http://forums.winespectator.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/6826053161/m/333106242 Fri Nov 04 15:33:14 -0800 2005 197197 0 mm 2 197224 I disagree with them being about the same. The Richmond/El Cerrito Costco gets almost nothing high end. I think the more "affluent" the area the higher end wines show up. But I also think the you can get competitive prices at Wine Club, K&L, etc. in SF. Fri Nov 04 16:48:10 -0800 2005 197201 0 Scott M 3 197271 Exactly, Costco buys for it's demographic area. While the one in San Leandro normally has some "good" wines, I've never seen any first growth there. Actually they probably carry a better selection of high end tequilas. Fri Nov 04 19:27:59 -0800 2005 197224 0 Monty 1 197220 Is there a particular reason you need to buy them from Costco? The Costco in San Francisco does have a few good wines from time to time. But there are several independent wine stores (e.g., K&L, The Wine Club) that have competitive prices, wider selections, and staff that can help you choose bottles. Fri Nov 04 16:40:16 -0800 2005 197197 0 nja 2 197253 Yeah, I think Nick is right. I go to other dealers and find that they want to help new customers get what they want. They are very helpful. Fair prices. Robert Fri Nov 04 18:50:05 -0800 2005 197220 0 Robert 1 197231 I tend to see the more higher end specialty wines at Costco in SF versus my experience with Costcos in the south bay Fri Nov 04 17:24:48 -0800 2005 197197 0 J Dizzle 1 197245 I do a fair amount of shopping/browsing at Costco's in the Bay Area. By far, the 2 best locations for premium wines are San Francisco & Novato. If you're looking for first-growth Bordeaux's (I've bought 2002 Lafite, Haut Brion, Margaux and Mouton, with Latour seemingly unavailable anywhere) and other premium reds (e.g. Opus One, Beringer Bancroft Ranch merlot, Penfolds Grange, Gaja), they're the best. Selection varies between the two, but you should be able to spend several thousand dollars at either location in no time flat. I've even bought Cristal champagne at the SF Costco, but that is a rare occurrence. Fri Nov 04 18:10:13 -0800 2005 197197 0 Eugene Park 2 197256 Costco's prices beat Wine Club's for top Bordeaux and K&L's for Champagne? You sure about that? Fri Nov 04 18:58:49 -0800 2005 197245 0 Robert Lauriston 3 197275 Costco beats everyone on Bordeaux prices only to the extent they actually stock and offer for sale current release Bordeaux at futures prices, which they did for the 2000, 20001 and 2002 vintages. Fri Nov 04 19:42:10 -0800 2005 197256 0 MikeW 4 197351 All the 2002 first-growths Bordeaux (Lafite, Haut Brion, Margaux and Mouton) that Costco carries are priced at $113.99 apiece. I see 2002 Mouton on K&L's website for $169.99. Costco is the largest retailer of wine in the world, and their profit model is based on moving volume. They don't have the best pricing on absolutely everything (no one does), but they will have the best pricing on the high-end, lower quantity wines (which they receive the highest allotments of from the wineries). Sat Nov 05 15:11:59 -0800 2005 197275 0 Eugene Park 5 198846 Are you sure that Costco is the largest wine retailer in the world? It surely is the biggest in the US. However, the annual turnover of LCBO in Canada is CA$3 billion or so for all alcoholic beverage sales (wine and spirits) and is the biggest retailer of those categories in the world. Not sure what proportion of that is wine. Costco began buying Bordeaux futures with the 1996 vintage, maybe earlier. It has found that stocking ultrapremium wine builds more than margin from those sales. It increases foot traffic, as wine geeks prowl the aisles several times a week to make sure they don't miss something. Stock of the good stuff blows through the place. I saw a presentation last year by the wine director of Sam's Club, a Costco competitor. Sam's had discovered that members who bought wine had a significantly higher check-out total than non-wine purchasers. Interestingly, it didn't matter what kind of wine or price level. Wine buyers spent more on everything else than the average customer. So, every effort is made to draw in wine consumers. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/167735#897173 Tue Nov 15 02:38:53 -0800 2005 197351 0 Melanie Wong 6 199724 Hi Melanie. An informal glance at the number of locations Costco has in the US, Canada, Mexico, UK, Puerto Rico and the Far East numbers over 400. One would also have to factor in the online business. I can't think of any other "retailer" that has such a large presence worldwide. To be a contender for the #1 spot, you would have to have a significant presence in the US market, even if you owned the #1 position in Europe. I can't think of a European retailer that has a strong enough presence in the US (heck, I can't think of any European wine retailers with multiple locations in the US). Sat Nov 19 22:15:09 -0800 2005 198846 0 Eugene Park 7 199734 Ok, Eugene, you sent me into some market research to put up or shut up. (vbg) In the US, AC Nielsen reports that 2004 wines sales in the category that includes Costco, BJ's, Sam's Club & Trader Joe's was about $1 billion. It was projected to grow at about 10% in 2005. At most, Costco might represent half of that US wine sector. Not every Costco location in the US or abroad sells wine, so the number of wine outlets is likely less than 400. Don't forget the power of state monopolies. Ontario's LCBO has about 600 retail outlets plus 390 Ontario winery shops. LCBO's wine sales, excluding the winery sales, in FY2004 were CA$1.11 billion or just under US$1 billion. It moved 99 million liters of wine. In Europe, Sweden's alcohol monopoly, Systembolaget has about 400 stores. It sold 142 million liters of wine in 2003. While I don't have exact figures for Costco's total wine sales, the enormity of LCBO's sales value, Systembolaget's sales by volume, and the number of retail outlets in either makes me suspect that they're probably larger than Costco. Back to Costco locally, your observation that Novato and SF have the best selection matches the market placement decisions of BevMo. Its best wines are stocked in 1) San Rafael, 2) San Francisco, and 3) Walnut Creek. Another thing that affects Costco's wine selection is the demand by management and board members for their own cellars. We should hope that they continue to be fine wine lovers asking for certain acquisitions for their local stores. Sun Nov 20 00:56:46 -0800 2005 199724 0 Melanie Wong 8 199748 Wow Melanie, you've done some extensive research! Looks like I stand corrected at Costco being the largest wine retailer worldwide. Thanks for the info. Never realized the state-run/subsidized monopolies that existed elsewhere in the world. Sun Nov 20 09:22:09 -0800 2005 199734 0 Eugene Park 1 197300 ironically, we had this discussion at work. one of my collegues who is a wine collector gave the costco in vallejo the best of the costcos for wine. their proximity to the wine region gets them into a wider wine selection. Fri Nov 04 21:43:09 -0800 2005 197197 0 dave 2 197323 i actually think the fairfield cosco outdoes the vallejo store. Sat Nov 05 03:13:37 -0800 2005 197300 0 rich 1 197303 Some time ago, I saw a member of a prominent Livermore wine-making family filling a shopping card with rival local brands at our Costco in San Ramon - a thrifty way to check out the premium competition? Fri Nov 04 21:55:37 -0800 2005 197197 0 Marie 1 197332 The Bay Area has so many fine wine shops, why waste your time at a Costco when there are places with competitive prices, broader selections and knowledgeable staffers? Costco may be a good place for a "drum" full of economically-priced mayonnaise (if you don't mind schlepping it yourself and waiting 20 minutes to check out, but the wine selection is modest. Suggestions for good Bay Area shops include Beltramo's in Menlo Park, Vin Vino Wine (a nice tasting bar program) in Palo Alto, K&L in Redwood City and SF, The Jug Shop (SF), Weimax (Burlingame by the airport...good tasting bar here, too), Paul Marcus in Oakland, etc. Some of the people in these shops are great at introducing customers to new discoveries and small, artisan wines. Sat Nov 05 11:28:41 -0800 2005 197197 0 Gaston Pinard 2 197353 Costco is great for the aficionado who likes premium wines and knows what they want, as well as those who want to try well-known brands without spending a lot of money. The better pricing becomes more apparent as you get into the premium range. No one is able to consistently beat Costco on bottles that are priced at $60 and above, simply b/c Costco isn't looking to hold these bottles for long periods of time to try and maximize profit. Sounds like the OP's buddy is the type who wants first-growth Bordeaux, reserve cabernet and meritage from the top Napa Valley producers, etc. For that, the right Costco will be the perfect place for him to go. If you're looking for good value from relatively unknown or emerging producers, then Costco is the wrong place to go. Sat Nov 05 15:27:59 -0800 2005 197332 0 Eugene Park 3 197364 At best, I've only seen a handful of top BDX @ Costco. Sat Nov 05 16:37:26 -0800 2005 197353 0 Earl Monroe 4 197376 Depends on what you classify as top Bordeaux. Purely from a classification standpoint, there are only a single handful of top Bordeaux (i.e. first-growth or "grand cru"). 4 out of 5 of the 2002 first-growths I have in my cellar were purchased from various Costco's in the past two months @ $113.99 per bottle (still haven't seen Latour ever at Costco). Doesn't get much better than that price-wise. I'm not a Sauternes enthusiast, but Chateau d'Yquem is at a number of Costco's, also. I'll faint if I ever see Petrus or Le Pin at a Costco. Sat Nov 05 17:31:57 -0800 2005 197364 0 Eugene Park 2 197393 because you can often save a 150 bucks or so on a decent case of wine. if you know a good price and don't need your hand held, costco makes sense. actually, hart at my little market in browns valley prices their wines with razor thin margins. the selection tends to local cabs. i can't believe some of the deals i've garnered there. Sat Nov 05 21:55:00 -0800 2005 197332 0 rich 3 197407 Where is this market in Browns Valley? Sat Nov 05 23:31:19 -0800 2005 197393 0 Pete Metzelars 4 197424 browns valley market, first st. Sun Nov 06 10:09:56 -0800 2005 197407 0 rich 1 197450 Novato! Best prices, ANYWHERE, for Bordeaux (not all, but a lot of good, very good and some excellent producers). This is a well-known secret among wine collectors and stocks run out fast, especially if you are waiting for vintages that were published to be very good. Sun Nov 06 19:03:49 -0800 2005 197197 0 RCC