Hey guys,
I'm hosting a book club night featuring Gael Greene's book Insatiable and would like to serve some typical new york food - simple but typical. Any suggestions? BTW I'm in Brisbane, Australia.
aussieeater
Apr 28, 2007 12:47AM
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pizza
bagels
egg creams
ny style cheesecake
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I go to New York to eat Shanghai Soup Dumplings!
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If you mean, what food do people in, say, Texas THINK that stereotypical New Yorkers eat, then pizza and hot dogs and bagels with lox. If you mean, what food do real New Yorkers eat, remember that NY is as ethnically diverse as the United Nations. Real New Yorkers eat fufu and groundnut stew, they eat nasi lemak and ayam goreng, they eat Fujianese oyster pancakes and stinky tofu, they eat parillada and caldo gallego and mofongo, they eat masala dosa and Bengali mustard fish and (if they're English) chicken tikka masala, and yes they even eat Vegemite when they can find it. In our better restaurants, innovative food a lot like Mod Oz is served. But if you want a fun time go with the pizza and bagels and find an American beer to wash it down.
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Dude, who are you, the PC police? Lol. I'm sure the OP meant what are some of examples of regional dishes that NY is known for. I know there's more than pizza, hot dogs and bagels with lox, but I'm not a native New Yorker - help her out. :o)
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I did help her (or him) out! It's just that NY is a city of immigrants and I don't think we HAVE any regional dishes. Okay, pretzels. I mean, what would you say for San Francisco, except for cioppino? It's funny, you could list ten times as many regional dishes for the small towns on Maryland's eastern shore as you can for NYC.
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Of course we have regional dishes. They're the dishes that we exiles from New York feel like we can't get where we live now. I can get perfectly fine masala dosa and fufu, but I can't get a bagel or pizza that is anything like what I grew up with. Go to the non-NYC regional boards and read the despairing threads on, say, where to get an egg roll in the LA area. That will tell you what the regional dishes of NYC are. If there are no regional dishes in NYC, why haven't I had a decent jelly doughnut since I left town???
Of course, I guess the bad news about that answer is... you are going to have a pretty hard time serving these dishes at your party in Australia.
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I dunno. I'm lucky enough to have befriended people all over the city. I've never seen someone from the Italian part of east Williamsburg go for lox and bagels, nor have I seen (except rarely) people in the Puerto Rican part of the South Bronx getting spaghetti. The only foods that cut across all groups are heroes (subs), pizza, and greasy Chinese takeout.
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If only Italians from the Bronx didn't like bagels! I'd be much less discontented.
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As my husband says, in New York, people don't live in food ghettos. The food culture here is learn to eat other people's stuff. Also, I can say from experience that plenty of Italians in Williamsburg get bagels and lox, and plenty of Puerto Ricans get spaghetti-in fact, many Puerto Rican restaurants-- the kind where you can get lechon or mofongo any day of the week- have a Spaghetti and Chicken special on the menu (espaguetti con pollo). Also, many Dominican places in Washington Heights have their version of spaghetti available.
And yes, Virginia, New York does have its regional food. I heartily agree with Wombat on the idea of visiting other boards to see what people are perpetually looking for...
but here are my own ideas:
Oysters (I know its May, but hear me out)... New York City was once a huge, huge supplier of oysters, going back to the 18th C. See Kurlansky's The Big Oyster as a reference.
Manhattan Special Espresso Soda, made in Brooklyn on Morgan Avenue, this is a New York treat not found in many places outside the tri-state area.
Good luck with your party, aussieeater.
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I've rarely seen the adventurous eaters you describe. (Though I'll confess that in every catered event in the Polish section of Billyburg, you will see one or two Italian pasta dishes in among the pierogis... and these are the ones that get eaten first!)
But the reason I'm replying is to tell you that while researching this I found what looks like a very interesting book of American food history whose thesis is, if you had to sum it up in a sentence, "In America, people don't live in food ghettos"
You can read a ten-page free preview here:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&a...
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No regional dishes !?! Why do you think they call it Oyster Bay on Long Island? Maybe try Oysters Rockefeller. Where did the Waldorf salad get created? Possibly the same place where Eggs Benedict were first consumed. Why, also is the minor league baseball team on Long Island called The Ducks?
Surely it's true that many of NY's iconic foods come to us from our immigrant population - our poor immigrant population. So any of the following will suffice as New York themed:
Pizza
Knishes
Hot Dogs
Schwarma
Gyro
Soulvauki
Bagels
Bialys
Pastrami on rye
Manhattan clam chowder
and if you're drinking, pour some Manhattans
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Oh, and I forgot ...
Chocolate Black-out Cake (who in Brooklyn did Entemanns steal this from?)
Egg Creams
Junior's Cheesecake (They will FedEx to Aussies)
Brats from Karl Ehmer
Chinese take-out
more to come ...
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Black and white cookies!
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OOHHH!! Black and White Cookies! YUM!
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I think that egg creams are one thing you can reproduce successfully almost anywhere. But that's because I'm a heretic who thinks they actually are not better with U-Bet syrup. Commence the stoning!
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Blackout cake was an Ebinger's specialty. (We pronounced it "Ebingizz".)
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Yes, if this were the 1830s, the top 3 NY dishes would be oysters, oysters and oysters. But that yummy NY oyster went extinct over a century ago. If this were the 1870s, the top dish would be steak. People gave parties where each guest was given four pounds of steaks.
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long island still pumps out millions of oysters annually.
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The oysters served back then were a different species. European Chowhounds came to NY to taste them. Tocqueville and Dickens enjoyed them, as I recall.
http://events.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/...
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crassostrea virginica is what grows all up and down the east coast. they go by name of point of origin, like malpeque or wellfleet, but it has been and remains the same species.
europeans oysters are ostrea edulis or belon.
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Manhattan clam chowder originated in Rhode Island
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actually, that's disputed. rhode islanders added some tomato to the same cream/milk base as n.e. chowder. chefs from delmonico's claimed the version as we now know it, as did danbury conn., and parts of long island
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Pretzels? I'd give that nod to Philly.
Grew up in the area and used to work there, and I believe what most people think of is the street food and the inexpensive deli/pizza slice shops. So this would be my interpretation of a useful list:
Bagels (technically, "water bagels") with lox or a schmear
Chopped liver (shaped into something)
Pastrami (nice and fatty, on a steam table) with Swiss
Reuben sandwiches
Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray soda
Thin crust pizza in big enough slices you can fold them (note: if the cheese and sauce slide off when folded, it ain't NY pizza)
Pickles - half sours or garlic (preferably Guss Pickles if you can get those)
Nathan's or Sabrett's dogs, with kraut or chopped onion (or that cloying brown onion/chili sauce)
Potstickers
Falafel in pita with lettuce, tomato & tzatziki sauce
Lemon ice (as in The Lemon Ice King of Corona)
Sfogliatelle & cannoli
I feel I'm missing a couple of things, but can't figure out what... something from Nedick's or Orange Julius maybe....
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gray's papaya and spumoni.
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Never put cheese on a pastrami sandwich. That will get you kicked out of Katz's.
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Spicy mustard though...that's the way to go.
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The SF bay area, like NYC, has a long history as a city of immigrants and boasts many of the same cuisines you listed in your first post. That being said, all you can think of is cioppino for SF? Yes, we are known for our fresh seafood, but here's a shortlist of things that would come to my mind if I were a tourist:
cioppino (of course)
dungeness crab
clam chowder in bread bowls
oysters
sourdough bread and bread in general (Boudin's and Acme in particular)
Mission burritos
Exceptionally fresh produce (I can't imagine visiting SF and not visiting a farmer's market or going to the Ferry Building - food porn at its best)
Artisanal chocolate
Artisanal cheeses (think Cowgirl Creamery's Humboldt Fog... drool)
San Francisco's china town is pretty famous for its dim sum
..The famous [Napa] wine country is about 40 minutes away...
I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but my point is that every major city has something that they are specifically known for. My housemate is a NY expat and regularly laments the lack of NYC-style jewish delis. In my area, all we've really got is Saul's (boo).
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Oh you took all the high-class sophisticated stuff for San Francisco and left us with hot dogs and bagels! So for New York I'll add a panoply of heirloom baby carrots from Satur Farms http://www.saturfarms.com/ and top bluefin tuna freshly caught off Long Island.
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Mission burritos are high class and sophisticated? I never said that NYC doesn't have any of the things I mentioned, only that the above mentioned stuff is what I would think of as far as a few of our regional specialities. It's really not that serious.
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Black and White Cookies. indigenous to NYC and I've only seen them there. THAT is New York food.
And SF has sourdough bread and dungeness crab cocktail or crab louie.
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BS, I always want to go to NYC for the food because my expectations are just as you describe--from fufu to mustard fish. I've never been disappointed in your city.
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We even have very good Colombian and Filipino food -- which should interest you.
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/247324
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It would be a treat to have very good Colombian and Filipino. I've never had tilapia or kaldereta ng kambing in Pampanga as the post describes, although I've eaten a lot of fish and goat dishes there in search of such flavors.
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Great answer, Brian.
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I know exactly what you mean Brian S, and particularly if the OP is doing a book club reading of Gael Greene (who was the long time restaurant critic for NY Magazine, and more than likely sampled plenty of what you list above and wrote about it) it's a hard call to make on what food to recommend. I do remember that she had a long-time "food" affair with Bobby Flay's restaurants and his innovative southwestern American palate. Whatever I think about his restaurants now (not much), I still admire his food as demonstrated in his cookbooks.
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Bagels and/or bialy
Pastrami sandwiches
NY Style Cheesecake
I'm from Texas, so these are what came to mind first for what New York food is. ;-) Of course, all we eat is BBQ and big honkin' steaks, so what do I know?
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*laugh*
I live in NYC and I think those are great choices. Of course I'm from KY, originally, where all WE eat is corn pone and squirrel, washed down with moonshine.
When you think "typical food of X area," I guess you sort of have to think, in part, about what the scene looks like for an outsider looking in.
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Pastrami on rye
Potato knishes
Sour pickles from the barrel
Black & white cookies
Chocolate babka
Lox and bagels
Smoked whitefish
Egg creams
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yes, one way to go would be to choose foods typical of the most ubiquitous ethnic groups - askhenazi jewish, italian, chinese, and puerto-rican/dominican. One problem is that what REALLY makes NY food from NY is that you usually can't get the food anywhere else. You can make some things from scratch for the best approximation though. How's this for a menu?
from jewish: potato knish with mushrooms or smoked whitefish salad with margarine on untoasted bagels, forget the lox. or potato kugel or matzo ball soup.
from italian: linguin w/clam sauce, sicilian style pizza
from chinese: any kind of dumpling, but preferably soup dumplings or fried pork dumplings.
from dominican/puerto rican: arroz con pollo, rice and beans, fried plantains, mango shakes if fresh mango available.
hope this helps.
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aglio olio
linguini with clam sauce
most others have been mentioned
extinct -- hot chestnuts.
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i connect red sauce italian too. so many italian immigrants whose traditional cuisine morphed into big trays of lasagne, baked ziti, spaghetti and meatballs, etc.
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You can still get hot chestnuts from street carts near BG and Saks during the winter holiday shopping frenzy season.
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Hot chestnuts on fifth avenue in the forties at christmastime. If I find the exact location, I will post!
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I guess based on the book you want New York City (but as a New Yorker not from the city, "New York" to me means the state not the city :))
If you can venture out to NY State as opposed to just the city, then crisp apples with cheddar cheese might be a nice course
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The book has lots of recipes--why not cook something from the book itself?
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My mom grew up in Orange, NJ and she constanly offered us fresh apples and cheddar. I thought it was an incredible combination. I guess it's a northeast thing. As an adult working with people from all over the U.S., I've gotten really funny looks when I tell co-workers about it. They just don't get it.
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dishes supposedly invented in nyc:
* Waldorf salad
* Eggs Benedict
* Steak Diane
* Egg cream
* Vichyssoise
* Mallomars (although i'm sure the op can't get those!)
* Ice cream cone
* Bloody Mary
* Pasta primavera
* after breakfast consumption of Cappuccino
* Chicken à la King
* Lobster Newburg
* Delmonico steak
* General Tso's chicken
there is also manhattan clam chowder which to me, a bostonian, is an abomination, but folks like it.
haagen-dazs, snapple, arizona iced tea are nyc companies.
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Also penne a la vodka.
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These are the NY foods that I miss now that I don't live there.
*Big fat salami sandwiches on freshly made bagels
*The delicious freshly made cream cheese varieties that top the fresh bagels (e.g., cheddar and jalapeno cream cheese, mixed vegetable cream cheese, bacon and onion cream cheese, and the list goes on).
*Cheap, good, coffee, with sugar and cream put in it for you.
*NY style pizza, with various toppings, by the slice-- I didin't like it at first, but it grew on me.
*Perogies, and the like (e.g. blintzes).
*Utz salt and vinegar potato chips.
*I think West Indian food is more prevalent out there (e.g., Jamaican food, such as patties). A friend of mine loved Jamaican patties. They are doughy pockets stuffed with beef and veggies.
*One more thing: falafel and schwarma sandwiches at Mamoun's. Yum!
*I also enjoyed Korean food, Japanese food, Indian food, Chinese food, etc. in NYC, but I don't miss any of those, since I have them available where I live.
*Bodegas-- the little corner markets, where they sell so many things. I was partial to the small containers of freshly cut fruit, the fresh fruit juices, and the freshly cut flowers sold at the bodegas.
*One more thing-- those nuts, roasted on various corners in the city, with the hard, sweet shell on top. They always smelled so good. They were sold for $1-$2 a pack. I would buy them, and sometimes they would be hard as a rock. They did smell good, though.
*Russian pickles, made in big barrels, sold in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn.
Hope this helps. (This is making me hungry).
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The coffee katkaupai describes with sugar and milk (more often than cream) put in for you is ordered "coffee reg'lur" (that's regular). For extra milk and sugar, order it "sweet and light." I tried that at a Dunkin Donuts that wasn't in NYC and got a blank stare.
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I like a lot of the options people've listed already. These are just a few suggestions for how you could finger food-fy:
* mini bagels toasted and spread with cream cheese, topped with slices of lox. (authentic ny bagels are boiled, first, and then baked.)
* for short-cut, ny-style-like pizza, use lavash so the crust gets nice and crispy; cut into small rectangles
* make teeny NY style cheesecakes in miniature muffin tins
Am I mistaken or are there a good number of places that serve shwarma and falafel in Brisbane, too? It's a very NYC streetfood experience.
*
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I love the passion for food! We do great gourmet Down Under but you guys are edgey (and I enjoyed the NY/SF rivalry as well - I'm a "she'' by the way). You've given me some good ideas to boot. BTW: What's the best restaurant in NY? By that, I mean top-notch, Michelin-starred. I figure you've all probably got your fave deli or local bistro!
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Most people say Per Se. I like Jean-Georges. http://events.nytimes.com/2006/04/19/dining/reviews/19rest.html
Some people would pick Masa, Le Bernadin, Daniel and maybe Bouley.
Jean-Georges would probably be closest in cuisine to Sydney's Mod-Oz style restaurants.
And if you want more advice on what to serve, why not email the friendly Aussie guys who run the Tuck Shop, the place to go if you are in NYC and you need a chook sanger. http://www.tuckshopnyc.com/
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Per Se is my fav, although Jean-Georges is a not-far-off second. I wouldn't call either of them "typical" NYC dining experiences, though.
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pizza
egg creams
bagels
pastrami sandwiches
sabrett hot dogs w/onion sauce from the carts
white castle
biales (sp?)
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According to my 509 page New York Cookbook by Molly O'Neill: From Pelham Bay to Park Ave. , Firehouses to Four-Star Restaurants....
The foods of my hometown (though now I'm exiled to LA) are everything from every possible land. But (IMHO) the classics and the sterotypical would have to include:
Manhattan Clam Chowder
Knishes
Ebingers Black Out Cake (and yes there is a recipe)
Cheesecake
Nathan's or Sabretts or Hebrew National Hot Dogs
Bagels, cream cheese and lox
Egg Creams made with Fox's U-Bet syrup
San Gennaro Sausage & Peppers
Zeppoles
Grand Central Oyster Bar Oysters
Seltzer (not club soda)
Pizza - by the slice
Cold Noodles with Sesame Sauce (NO good ones in LA)
Wise Potato chips
Drakes Cakes
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I still have a seltzer man that delivers old-fashioned bottles to apartment. I love that stuff!
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You do??? You MUST reveal your source. I would adore that. :) (nyc, I hope)
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Gael Greene reviewed (and wrote eloquently) about high-end restaurants, so any kind of "fancy" food from any tradition would do.
IMHO, a lot of the "typical" foods that impassioned NYC Chowhounds have suggested would be difficult, expensive or impossible to obtain or replicate in Brisbane.
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i'm in FL, but there are a lot of people from NY who migrate to FL......
that said, i'd never heard of a deep fried hot dog nor a bialy until quite recently - and i'm pretty old. not sure if it's strictly NJ or if it's NY as well.
i'd say those two suggestions are going to be very difficult to duplicate.........(seeing's how i'm from FL and have never heard of either of them in a state that's filled with NY/NJ transplants.)
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Deep fried hot dogs are a mystery to me, too. But bialys were almost as common as bagels in my Brooklyn neighborhood when I was a kid.
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Deep fried hot dogs are a northern NJ item. See the following ongoing thread.
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/396235
Wrt bialy, difficult to understand how a long time NY'er was not exposed to this delight "up north". Usually sold by a bagel shop (especially in LES) and is a drier dough than a bagel, not boiled before baking like a bagel. But the major difference is the hole in the middle is not a hole, but an indent (like a dimple). Then onion and/or garlic is placed in the dimple and baked. Definitely a NY thing.
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Well, ya learn something new every day! I spent my teenage years in north Jersey, just a stone's throw from Rutt's Hut, yet I have no recollection of deep fried hot dogs. Guess I led a sheltered life -- either that, or my age is playing funny tricks with my memory.
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Hey what about pickles? I don't think anyone has mentioned them. O lucky cucumber to be privileged to bathe in the oak (or now plastic) barrels of Guss & Sons! As I've said, though I grew up in NYC, I've eaten the stuff on this list about twenty times in my life (except for pizza, and I didnt know anyone folded it until I read it on this board). But pickles! I've walked miles to get to Guss' and bought a gallon. Eaten them all over a month as they slowly turn from new to sour.
http://a54.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/0...
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That dancing pickle is waay cool, but needs to come to Colombia for some salsa lessons.
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What happened to breads? Jewish corn bread and rye. Also Tunafish salad with onions and mayonaisse on toasted rye with coleslaw on the side and raw onions. (I'm born and bred in New York).
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jewish cornbread? huh?
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It's kind of like rye bread.
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Look again -- I mentioned "sour pickles from the barrel" in my earlier post. I'm thinking I ought to start a new thread called "Most unusual thing you've ever eaten during theater intermission" but there might not be too many replies. However, MY contribution to that thread would be "Sour pickles from Guss." We went to see a (really baaaaaaaad) play a couple of years ago in a Lower East Side theater. The play was called "A Stoop on Orchard Street" and during intermission they were passing out free sour pickles from Guss in the lobby.
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Almost worth sitting through a bad show...
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Almost... But think of how thirsty you get after eating them. They could have made a fortune selling bottled water in the lobby.
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Just about all the "typical" New York food listed here seems to be available in Toronto, well made and plentiful. My father once thought he was doing me a favour bringing me some bagels from New York, and was surprised to discover that they were actually made locally. (And don't tell me the New York ones are better = I've had the two side by side, and preferred the Toronto one - as does my son, who lives in New York and is a Chowhound.)
With ONE exception - bialys! I have never found them anywhere but in New York, and, for some reason, Greensboro, North Carolina.
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You all eat very well in Toronto, and Canada in general! Don't tell anyone I said this, but I actually like bagels in Montreal than in NYC!
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Believe me, it would be a relief if this were so. New York City has more Michelin three-star restaurants than any city in the entire Universe (including those galaxies as yet unexplored by man) except for Paris, and some incredibly good Chinese food as well, and yet for every visitor who asks about these, ten ask about bagels. So now I can send them to Canada.
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I grew up on the north side of Chicago and remember having bialys-found it a little too chewy for me. Must be it's close proximity to Skokie.
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Nobody mentioned Brooklyn Beer yet?
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http://www.usafoods.com.au/c31/victor...
An online store here in OZ (I'm in Melbourne!), where you can get lots of "American" foods..
This link takes you to their "NY Italian" page....
haveagoodone, mate!!
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This thread is making me hungry not to mention homesick! Anyway, you likely won't be serving this at a party but I would like to add the humble bacon, egg and cheese on a kaiser roll to the list. It's one of the first things I get when I come home to visit and it is most definitely local as I'm unable to get one in most other parts of the US.
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Really?! I fondly remember starting every morning off in high school with a sausage-egg-and-cheese from the local deli...had no idea this was impossible in other cities, since I'm still in college and now it's omelet stations and cheerios in the dining hall, but thanks for the heads-up. In fact, maybe I'll have one tomorrow...
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Well, proper hard rolls (the kind that are hand klopped and go stale in a few hours) are becoming rarer in the NY area too, sad to say. Things of beauty....
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True about the rolls, but, in NJ at least, the Portugese rolls are an excellent substitute.
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I am very late to this party but this is a great thread and it's making me really homesick!
No one has mentioned Boar's Head yet! A little hard salami? Come on...
(OK, I know they distribute to other states now, but my childhood memories are stuffed full of my mother settling for NOTHING short of Boar's Head cold cuts. And I remember that they only came to Chicago around 1997 or 98.)
One other that I had was Marino's Italian Ices...in the yellow cup.
And if you want to talk bagels, let's get specific...try getting a salt bagel or an egg bagel outside the tri-state area!
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Give everyone at your party a bottle of Poland Spring water to walk around with!
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