395654 Thu Apr 26 09:35:51 -0700 2007 17 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 2517292 From time to time I notice that a recipe will call for pasteurized heavy cream rather than the readily-available ultra pasteurized. The reason given, of course, is the fresher taste of pasteurized, as it is not heated to as high a temperature in the process. I have never been able to find pasteurized heavy cream in the stores. I'm sure they don't carry it due to the fact that it does not have as long a shelf life as ultra-pasteurized. I've even tried to get it directly from our local dairies, but they won't sell to the public! Has anyone else had this problem? Well....not that it's a big problem, but I would like to try it and see if there is really any great difference when I whip cream for strawberry shortcake, for example. "Afraid of butter? Add more cream."-Julia Child Thu Apr 26 09:35:51 -0700 2007 93384 cookingschool 1 2517453 I had luck finding it in vegetable stands which go the extra distance and have flowers and some cheeses, dairy and even meat, in addition to their produce. Whole Foods is another possibility, depending on what part of the country you are in. I do find a difference when I am able to get just pasturized heavy cream. Much better, richer flavor. Good Luck. Thu Apr 26 10:14:20 -0700 2007 2517292 15050 random amblings 1 2518914 Oh I loathe UHT. In some parts of Europe, it is (or used to be) the only kind of milk you could get. And note that the expiration date on ultra-pasteurized is only true if it is unopened. Once opened, it spoils fairly quickly. Thu Apr 26 16:30:57 -0700 2007 2517292 11362 Brian S 2 2563315 I've never even seen UHT cream. But UHT is not the same thing as ultra-pasteurization (which is not the same as pasteurization.) They're three related but different processes that involve progressively higher temperatures for progressively shorter periods of time. Until a couple of years ago, at least two of the main mainstream dairies that supply NYC still produced pasteurized-only cream. These days, I only see it at Whole Foods or the occasional other "gourmet" type place - as organic or some such thing, at very high prices. Like I said, it may very well exist, but I've never seen UHT cream at all. I do agree that UHT milk sucks - as bad as it is, I think I'd rather drink reconstituted dried milk myself.... Fri May 11 18:15:29 -0700 2007 2518914 11980 MikeG 3 4275092 I get UHT Amul cream from India, the main problem being not the UHT but the 25% fat, and I also have some Millac 38% fat UHT cream that came from Ireland, both in shelf stable aseptic 1 liter cartons. It exists. Fri Dec 26 20:20:23 -0800 2008 2563315 13150 babette feasts 1 2519191 You should be able to find non-UHT cream at natural food stores. I'd be surprised if Whole Foods doesn't have it. Although it is less likely, mainstream high end stores might have some. UHT cream tends to have different whipping qualities than non-UHT, and it reacts differently when you reduce it to thicken a sauce. (How differently seems to depend on the specific additive mix.) I would have agreed about an extreme flavour difference until quite recently. But I've since made some interesting observations. In Toronto, we have one widely distributed brand of non-UHT cream, Hewitt's. Their whipping cream tastes markedly better than the major supermarket brands of UHT cream. However, Hewitt's table cream and half-and-half do not taste better than the UHT brands. I recently found a brand of UHT whipping cream, Dairyland, that tastes more like Hewitt's and less like the other UHT creams. This was very surprising. We also have several brands of organic, non-UHT whipping cream (Hewitt's is not certified organic) that taste no better than the major UHT brands. Although it may or may not be true today, at one time all UHT cream sold in the Toronto area, whatever the brand name, came from a single dairy. But different brands had different additives and they never tasted the same. I don't know what sourcing considerations or processing secrets are involved. I've given up even trying to figure it out. I try to buy Hewitt's whipping cream and take whatever is on offer for lower butterfat varieties. I'd like to buy organic, but it don't because it doesn't taste better. Thu Apr 26 18:08:24 -0700 2007 2517292 23411 embee 1 2522215 Cream is wonderful. Cream is delicious. Cream has *flavor.* Cream has body and substance and produces mounds of lovely sweet heaven. It gives body and life to countless applications. Raw cream is practically divine but gently pasteurized and non-homogenized cream is also really lovely. Good cooks and thoughtful recipe writers will always specify pasteurized cream because it is vastly, VASTLY superior. Ultra pasteurized cream is worthless. It tastes both flat and cooked and whips poorly. It has no life and no flavor. There is really no point in using it. Why accept all that fat without the flavor? UHT cream is like Cool Whip, margarine, Miracle Whip, high fructose corn syrup and every other lie that gets sold to the willing public. It sucks and people buy it because they either don't know any better or can't find anything better. UHT is a bastardized product that bad agribusiness and greedy supermarkets have tricked people into accepting. There is *no* reason your local store can't stock a better product. In my experience cream is far less perishable than milk. Supermarkets that stock UHT cream are just choosing the worst/cheapiest/easiest suppliers and you should demand better from them. Fri Apr 27 17:11:52 -0700 2007 2517292 10099 JudiAU 2 2522232 here here. I buy either at the dairy down the road or at my food coop. No ultra pasteurized for me! Fri Apr 27 17:18:46 -0700 2007 2522215 33755 NYchowcook 1 2524728 Check a local Whole Foods - they usually carry a local brand (to you) of a pasteurized heavy cream vs. the ultra-pasteurized. Also, check smaller, local markets - there is a place in Lexington, MA called Wilson Farms that also carries a pasteurized vs. ultra-pasteurized heavy cream. Takes some sussing out, but you can usually find it. Post on your local board about it - someone's bound to know where to find it. Sun Apr 29 07:04:33 -0700 2007 2517292 10532 LindaWhit 2 2525336 I'm on a mission! Thanks, everyone! "Afraid of butter? Add more cream."-Julia Child Sun Apr 29 12:01:26 -0700 2007 2524728 93384 cookingschool 3 2526005 At natural groceries you can often buy raw cream -- very expensive, though. The other thing you can look for is manufacturer's cream, which is used in commercial kitchens and is pasturized but not ultra-pasteurized. In the Bay Area I've seen it at Smart and Final, which carries a lot of food service products but is open to the public. Sun Apr 29 17:03:43 -0700 2007 2525336 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 2563157 Do you have a food coop near you? I'd try them -- mine has a local dairy supplying milk and (non ultra pasteurized cream) Fri May 11 17:02:50 -0700 2007 2517292 33755 NYchowcook 2 2564452 Another good idea! I appreciate it. Thanks! Sat May 12 11:59:45 -0700 2007 2563157 93384 cookingschool 1 2565228 I don't know what your laws are in Texas, but in CA it is legal to sell non-pasturized milk products so I can buy non-pasturized cream at whole foods and at the farmers market. Also, in LA we have a chain of bulk stores that cater to small restaurants and cafes called Smart and Final. They carry process cream which even has a higher butterfat content than heavy cream. It is pasturized, not ultra-pasturized. As someone else mentioned, the biggest problem with working with ultra-pasturized is that it doesn't whip. If you are cooking with the cream, it really shouldn't make a difference, since once you pour even raw cream into a soup and heat it to 180 degrees, it's pasturized! Sat May 12 19:51:48 -0700 2007 2517292 73520 markethej 1 2569546 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ice cream problem. When I make ice cream, if I cannot find pasturized and must use ultra pasturized I sometimes have a problem with the final product being too soft. In one of Alton Brown's programs he mentions this is because the fat globules are so much finer in the UP stuff. It's getting harder and harder in our area to find just the plain pasturized cream and I may have to stop making ice cream because of it. Up until just a few weeks ago our local big chain grocery store would have the pasturized cream most of the time, but I no longer see it carried there. Mon May 14 17:04:11 -0700 2007 2517292 18057 Jambalaya 2 2569706 While this won't work for every possible flavour, you can often get around the problem by using a custard ice cream base. Mon May 14 18:01:18 -0700 2007 2569546 23411 embee 2 2569775 I think you should demand, er, suggest strongly, to your favorite local independent store that they stock the regular (non-ultra pasteurized) cream. Or seek out a local dairy, coop or natural food store. Maybe a farmer's market to find a local dairy? Mon May 14 18:53:42 -0700 2007 2569546 33755 NYchowcook 1 4274447 As a chemist many of the comments made about the taste of ultra pasteurized milk products do not make sense when the milk products are used in recipies that involve further cooking. For instance I use ultra pasteurized half & half and heavy cream to make French Vanilla Ice Cream. The recipie calls for the cream mix to be heated in a heavy bottom pot to make the custard base. I am fairly certain that the pot bottom is raised to over 280 degrees F. and cooking time is about 20 minutes.. So the process of making the custard is far more violent than the Ultra pasteurization process. The resulting Ice cream is fabulous, much better than any ice cream from ice cream stores or premium food market brands. Of course I use very fine vanilla beans or double strength vinilla extract purcharsed from specialty providers. And of course the ice cream is very fresh. The ingredients are very simeple cream, milk, egg yolks, sugar and vanilla. Fri Dec 26 13:42:24 -0800 2008 2517292 251545 nghy