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Disposing of Coffee Grounds

Is it OK to just rinse coffee grounds down the sink? I don't have a garbage disposal. (Sorry, I don't compost.)

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  1. You don't have to compost. Just spread 'em around in your garden. Otherwise, toss them in the trash. If you put them down the sink, you might want to set aside a couple of bucks every time, so you have money to pay the plumber to clear the drains when the time comes. Unless, of course, you're using a LOT of water to rinse them down, in which case you're wasting water.

    21 Replies
    1. re: ricepad

      Not 100% sure that this is not a myth: coffee grounds are about the only thing you can dump down the drain with no ill effects. Always dump mine and have never had a problem; and I'm very careful not to let anything elso go down the drain.

      1. re: Sam Fujisaka

        Well it may or may not be a myth, but it happened to me. We had a bad clog in our kitchen sink (house built in the early 1990s so old pipes weren't the cause) and the plumber found a lot of coffee grounds and advised us. Now my husband won't let even one little ground down the drain and we don't even live there any more.

        1. re: farmersdaughter

          Well your plumber was wrong. There may have been coffee ground behind the clog... but they didn't cause it. Coffee grounds actually clean your pipes. They're rough and acidic and break down food and other nasty stuff stuck to the walls for your pipes.

          1. re: CreamOfWeber

            I disagree. When Mr. Sueatmo had to pull our pipes because of a leak (plastic pipes) I noticed that the insides of the pipes had coffee grounds encrustations. We do have a garbage disposal. I stopped putting them through the disposal after seeing what the insides of the pipes looked like.

            A thing you can do with the grounds is put them on top of potted plants. You might know someone who would appreciate your grounds every so often for that purpose, if you don't keep plants yourself. In my experience they just dry out, but don't have an odor. I have saved them for the garden in the days when I had a garden.

            1. re: CreamOfWeber

              I am skeptical of this claim.

              if coffee had that effect pipes and other food, it would interact with paper filters, plastic cups, styrofoam cups and all kinds of less stable materials it comes in contact with.

              I don't recommend putting coffee grounds down the drain. Toss them in the trash or compost them.

              1. re: taos

                It does. Over time. It's not sulfuric acid.

              2. re: CreamOfWeber

                I guarantee you the people at the municipal waster water treatment plant would prefer if you did not put coffee grounds down the drain into the sanitary sewer. They have enough solid waste without adding unnecessary stuff like coffee grounds. They don't even want boxed tissue to go down the toilet, only human waste and toilet paper. Ask a plumber about the 'flushable' cleaning products, the only reason they will tell you it is fine to flush those things is because they want the future business. All of that stuff shows up at the wastwater treatment plant and it takes money and effort to get rid of the stuff because it does not go away on its own.

                1. re: John E.

                  But, if the person does not compost, then I think it is preferable to throw the coffee grounds down the drain and have us collectively pay more for wastewater treatment than to send it to the landfill.

                  1. re: hala

                    Nope. Coffee grounds is one thing in a landfill that will decompose. More energy, both fossil fuels and manhours, is used in treating the water which is more of a problem than coffee grounds in the landfill. There are some parts of Europe that will not allow garbage disposals in kitchen sinks.

                    1. re: John E.

                      Doesn't it take way longer to decompose in the landfill? We also need to use fossil fuel to move it from the garbage can to the land fill. Does treating solids in a wastewater treatment plant take more energy than transporting the garbage even if they are using biological methods (good bacteria eats up the solids)? I am not argueing, I am just asking.

                      1. re: hala

                        I don't know everything about the subject but I recently read an article about municipal wastewater treatment facilities and how their life would be so much easier if people did not put so much stuff down the drain that did not belong there, either from the kitchen or the bathroom. My father used to be on the state water resources board in Minnesota, he was also the longtime chairman of our local watershed district. He knew a lot about the subject of water and he has always said that if you don't need to put something down the garbage disposal put it in the trash. On the subject of trash, today was garbage pickup day for us. What is amazing is how much less garbage we generate these days compared to when I was a kid. The recycling bin has more stuff in it that does the trash bin.

                    2. re: hala

                      I wouldn't do this. Especially if you don't have a garbage disposal, I would not do this. But even with a garbage disposal, I have see the inside of plastic pipe, pulled from my sing. There was coffee in the pipe. Eventually I think you'd get a clog. I don't want to pollute, but I don't want an expensive plumbing bill either. Figure out a way to compost these, if you are dead set about throwing them in a landfill.

                  2. re: CreamOfWeber

                    nope - like many other people on this thread we successfully clogged our pipes with coffee grounds!

                    we now stick them in the trash (no compost option in our building). Usually we pop them into an old yoghurt pot to allow them to dry out a bit (we use a French press so there's often quite a bit of water mixed in with them)

                2. re: Sam Fujisaka

                  Coffee grounds stopped up the sink at my work. Our facilities people tried to clear it, then they called a drain company who tried with a "regular snake" (work had a "home improvement store" snake), they had to bring in special equipment to clear the clog, the drain people "blamed" coffee grounds. It wasn't in the trap, it was far down stream. The "regular snake" couldn't reach the clog.

                  I live in an area that occasionally has droughts/water rationing. A neighbor of my folks was a plumber, he usually worked new construction/remodels but after a year or so of water rationing he spent several months clearing drains. The plumber told most of the neighbors, it takes a lot of water to keep drains clear if one puts anything other than liquids down the drain. Since then (1976) I don't put food down the drain (nor in garbage disposal).

                  1. re: Sam Fujisaka

                    Maybe I should clarify a little. Coffee grounds down the drain are ok if you run enough water to flush them completely out of the plumbing system. It takes a lot of water in most houses to rinse them that far.

                    1. re: ricepad

                      Kind of like what we kids wrote on the lav walls, "Flush twice; its a long way to the cafeteria"!

                    2. re: Sam Fujisaka

                      I did say in another post which you might want to hear, or not...my uncle owns a very successful plumbing company in NYC and he has alwasy told the family to use the sink to dispose of coffee grinds, he said it clears the grease...we have done it for many, many, years and none (thank God) have ever had a problem...don't think he would want to steer us wrong, since HE WOULD BE THE ONE WE CALL, IF WE NEED HELP....he hasn't had to help any of us for this problem, ever....he said a plumber night tell youj not to do, since they want to have their businesses flourish....why give you a hint which might SAVE you money and you won't need them....but, of course, you follow your heart and mind...

                      1. re: BobbiBean

                        If you expect a reply, it won't happen. Sam was a great guy, but he died about two years ago. He seemed to know something about everything on these threads. Do you have any interests in food other than putting coffee grounds down the drain? Having never been to NYC I'm always interested in a New Yorker's take about food and cooking.

                    3. re: ricepad

                      Spread them around your plants but only if they're acid loving plants like azaleas, rhododendrons, laurels, etc. I'm not sure coffee is acidic enough to influence hydrangeas but it might be fun to test.

                      1. re: chowser

                        I have heard that spread around the hydrangeas it will change the color of the flowers. Starting the process shortly, but I also heard it takes a while to kick in.

                      2. re: ricepad

                        "Coffee grounds and grease."
                        The answer to a question posed to a plumber on what causes the most blockages in drains.
                        Even if you don't put them down the drain at the same time, they'll meet up and form
                        a sludgy inpenetrable nightmare.

                      3. I put them in a plastice bag and into the trash every morning ( along with the fruits of cleaning my kitty litter box!)
                        There is really not much I put into the disposal. Had it back up once on Thanksgiving- with 25+ - and vowed never to have that happen again. Of course, it happened becasue the men- doing the clean up- put everything down the disposal- too bad for them- they had to snake the drains, before they could finish the dishes. We all learned a lesson that day!!

                        1. We had just this discussion at my house last week. I never put them down the drain, and somehow remember reading or being told never to put them down a disposal, that the grounds can clog it up. My friend, who lives in a 1930s flat in London, says she always puts them down the drain - no problem. I'd be worried about the pipes in my old NY building, disposal aside. My husband insists there is nothing wrong with putting them down the drain/disposal, but kindly indulges me and doesn't do so.

                          2 Replies
                          1. re: MMRuth

                            If you look at how a kitchen disposer works you'll see that coffee grounds are already MUCH finer than anything that the disposer spits out -- SO I think by indulging you your husband is actually saving you from a lot of headaches.

                            1. re: renov8r

                              Since this thread has been brought back to life - I had a new garburator installed earlier this week, and the plumber said the he advises not to put them down the drain, as they can have negative effects (not that I remember the details) on older pipes.

                          2. With a septic system, we don't put ANY food materials down the drain.

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: CindyJ

                              The problem with septic systems is that the bacteria that are part of the design/function of turning solids into liquids are not very fast or efficient. The enzymes that they produce are slowed down by the presence of fiber and oils. Since there is almost nothing but that in ground coffee beans they slow down septic systems. The starchy/sugary wastes ought to be handled fine...

                              1. re: renov8r

                                I've heard discussions on both sides of the septic system/food disposal argument. In the end, we've decided not to fill it with anything except what gets there as intended. We do add some kind of enzyme product once a year. Ahhhh... the joys of country living!

                                1. re: CindyJ

                                  Septic system here, too. No grounds, no food waste down the drain even with a garbage disposal unit. And we do the septic product monthly. So far no issues after 10+ years.

                            2. The jfoods get major demerits on this one. We do not compost, we do not spread on ppalnts and have >50 rhodys and azaleas, we place down the drain, put on the cold water and then the disposal. The the grinds go straight to the septic system.

                              We clean the septic once per year.

                              8 Replies
                              1. re: jfood

                                My question would be why dump them down the drain in the first place? Seems to me it's just as easy to to grab the paper filter full of grinds and pitch it. Unless of course you use a re-useable filter, but even then give it a few good smacks agains the inside of the trash can then rinse the rest down the drain. It's not like used coffee grinds stink so there shouldn't be a problem letting them sit in the garbage for a few days.

                                1. re: Rick


                                  I start with the gold filter, not paper, can't stand paper, one of the few items that curls Jfood's tongue.

                                  My coffee maker is around the island from the compactor and I have a second sink right next to the coffee maker. So I open the machine, grab the filter, extend my arm to the right and dump the grounds. I rinse, fill and back into the machine. It's just a very easy process when one of the droopy-eyed jfoods come down in the morning.

                                  In addition, anything wet in compactor always gets on the "plunger" and its a bear to clean.

                                  1. re: jfood

                                    "I start with the gold filter, not paper, can't stand paper, one of the few items that curls Jfood's tongue. "

                                    Sorry, but I just caught this thread and have to ask: what's jfood's tongue doing anywhere in the vicinity of a paper coffee filter?

                                    I use my hands and a measuring cup to load the filter, which work just fine; but I'm always eager to learn new tricks -- especially when it comes to filtering coffee grounds..

                                    1. re: Muskrat

                                      oy...let's connect the dots like a hole in the bottom of the sea :-))

                                      paper filter into coffee maker...grounds into paper filter...close...water into resevoir...close...turn on...water heated and drops onto and through grounds...coffee goese through paper filter into container...finsih...pour into cup...raise to lips...sip...over the tongue.

                                      sorry but jfood is from NJ and tries to minimize words, but the aftertaste of the paper filter when the coffee is drunk is what jfood referred to.

                                      Hope that helps and connects the dots.


                                      1. re: jfood

                                        Ah. I was thinking paper cuts or cooties or something like that. The aftertaste of filter paper has thus far and evidently fortunately eluded me.

                                  2. re: Rick

                                    I use a french coffee press for both coffee and tea, and have a gold filter when *lots* of coffee is needed. I just add a little water to the lees, swirl the mixture in the press, and use centrifical force to throw everything into the toilet. I do not recommend flushing coffee filters.

                                    1. re: Rick

                                      Rinsing coffee grounds down the sink helps keep the drain from clogging because it creates the proper PH to grow helpful bacteria that eat sediment on the side of your pipes and/or is abrasive to clean the pipes as they are flushed. That is the general idea. We have done it for 21 years and recently added a room and got into the pipes and they were clean as a whistle. Not sure if this is the same in all cases.

                                      1. re: Rick

                                        rick the reason I personally never put coffee grounds in the trash is because they drip liquid and make for a wet messy bag. I have a little (former) ice bucket under the sink for filter and coffee grounds, when its full, it goes into the mulch pile. i try to not put anything wet and drippy into my trash for in no time, it finds its way down to the bottom and you have leaky , icky messes. plus we believe that all natural food, that has not been altered, such as processed, spiced or otherwise addtional substances such as butter, should go back to the garden. why throw perfectly good mulch in the trash ?unless, of course. you live in the city. In that case I would make sure it was bagged well before tossing it.

                                    2. I flush them down the toilet. I do the same thing for loose tea leaves. If I could compost, I would as coffee grounds are *great* for roses.

                                      1. I wouldn't recommend putting more down the drain than you have to. To clean out my french press I put just enough water back into the pot to swirl the grounds around and then pour them into a paper filter held by a manual coffee drip I had laying around. Let the water drain out and in about ten minutes I've got a clean press and dry grounds that i can just throw away. I do end up with a minimal amount of grounds going down the drain to get the last of the grounds out but I'm not concerned with that small amount.

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: bosshasr

                                          We only recently started drinking coffee and I've been wondering how best to dispose of the grounds... we don't have a garbage disposal and even if we did I wouldn't want to use it - our pipes are old and sluggish enough already! I use a french press and spoon as many of the grounds out into the trashcan as I can, and then I've put some water into the press and swirled the very last of the grounds down the sink... but I think I'll get some filters just so I can avoid that from now on - a few bucks for a packet of filters a month beats $150 for a plumber!

                                        2. Do you have a garden or access to one?
                                          If the answer is 'no' to the above then simply take your grounds and begin compiling them in a container to take out into the world and spread them around.
                                          Anything growing outside will benefit from the grounds. The go all over my succulents, my roses and my trees. I don't know if it's okay to dump them down the drain. I've never done it based on my ability to simply open the door and toss them outside.

                                          1. I was always taught that putting them down the drain was asking for a clog. Recently had a clog at work, and the maintenance guy blamed our grounds (try washing out coffee pot implements in a tiny bar sink!).

                                            At home, I lean out the front door and chuck the contents of the gold filter or french press into the bark. Out the back door, the grass gets it. Nothing complains, nothing smells. The blueberries get it scratched in to their container once in a while.

                                            2 Replies
                                            1. re: Vetter

                                              Yup. Quick preface. One of the local "smaller accounts" sewer guys in our neighborhood claimed $190K on their taxes last year. One hundred and ninety friggin' K.

                                              So, mister 190K informed me ... 'No fats down the drain, and no coffee grinds down the drain. The fats cling to the insides of the pipes, and then the coffee grinds cling to the fat. Fast forward several months -- you have a clog'. Then he uttered the words, 'That'll be ninety-five bucks for today's service visit.' ~ Lesson LEARNED.

                                              1. re: Cheese Boy

                                                Here's a quick point for you to consider... if this man makes soooooo much money why would he encourage you to do something that could put him out of work? People have been putting coffee grounds down the darin for generations for the abrasive and acidic qualities that scour the walls of the pipes. The problem with the "coffee grind sludge" is not the coffee... it is the act of draining your hamburger grease into your sink without running HOT water for several minutes prior to draining to heat up the pipes and keep the hot water running while and after draining to make sure it goes entirely out of the pipes. The hot hamburg/bacon grease hits cold pipes and instantly solidifies against the walls of your pipes. If you NEVER dump grease down the sink then there is nothing for the coffee grinds to "stick" to and it does the scouring job the old-timers swear by. Bottom line: grinds yes - grease no!

                                            2. Renters put coffee grounds down the drain of my rental house. They clogged the drain all the way back to the kitchen sink and just left it that way. It took us hours and hours to unclog that mess, besides the leakage under the sink.

                                              1. Kitchen trash can - or plants - not in the drain or garbage disposal.

                                                1. We have a disposal, and I used to dump them down . After we had a leak, DH pulled the pipes out I got a look at the stuff in my pipes. Lots of black coffee detritus. It can't have helped the water flow. I put mine in the trash now. If you have houseplants, you can put both coffee grounds and spent tea in them.

                                                  1. If you have friends who garden, they might be willing to do some serious trading.
                                                    Coffee Grounds for Roses, Rhodies, Azaleas and Blueberries.
                                                    Sandy soils need all the organics they can receive.

                                                    Just think how lovely this country could be if everyone supported Blueberries as landscaping with their coffee grounds.

                                                    1 Reply
                                                    1. re: shallots

                                                      except that blueberry bushes are not particularly lovely, they look like generic scrub most of the year.

                                                    2. Revisiting this topic - I have a refillable K cup for my new Keurig coffee maker. I can dump most of the grinds into the trash, but some remains in the filter. I need to do a rinse to get them out.

                                                      So, what do you do if you have a new machine?

                                                      1. I have always put them in the trash before and after marrying into a garbage disposal unit. But now our city says they can be recycled. Still haven't gotten into that habit.

                                                        However, r/t clogging, our appliance guy who put in a replacement for the 30 y/o disposal says he hears the most complaints right after Thanksgiving and Christmas when folks peel 5 or 10 pounds of potatoes for the big dinner, put the peels down the disposal and don't run enough water, followed by the boiling water from the cooked potatoes, which manages to cook the starch remaining on the walls of the pipes, and it expands. Just FYI....

                                                        1. they go onto my azaleas or tomato plants or anywhere else in the garden.

                                                          1. Even with a disposal, moderation is called for, as with most things — a little garbage and a lot of water. We make a lot of coffee, so we put the grounds in the trash, but don't worry about some it going down the drain.

                                                            I was advised by a drain cleaning service once to put a pot of boiling water down the drain periodically to help clean the scum, so we do that also.

                                                            2 Replies
                                                            1. re: GH1618

                                                              Also told not to dump down the sink by a plumber. We throw them in the trash or sometimes in the yars/garden. Mather can help keep deer away. I am NOT contending that it solves any deer problem but we think it helps a little.

                                                              1. re: GH1618

                                                                This isn't about coffee grounds but every 6 months or so I put a few teaspoons of baking soda down my sink drain and then a glug of vinegar followed by some hot water.
                                                                The resulting foaming is supposed to clean any sludge buildup.

                                                                I'm not sure if it works as its supposed to. But I have never had a blocked sink drain.

                                                                What surprises me is how some people do put hard fats down their sink without having a problem.

                                                              2. I compost mine. However, if you don't compost and don't want to put them in the trash...you'd be wise to follow the advice of my 85 year old next door neighbor: "You are better off eating them than putting them down the garbage disposal. Doctor's are cheaper than plumbers."

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: meadandale

                                                                  Coffee-ground mulch has the added benefit of deterring veggie and flower-munching slugs and snails. Studies show that coffee grounds have a fatal effect on both creatures. Of course, there are many other organic pesticides that can also deter certain garden pests.
                                                                  Eva Brcic Christian

                                                                2. Dump them on ant hills. They hate that.

                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                  1. re: sandylc

                                                                    ants hate chalk even more...if you draw a chalk line an ant will not cross it...try it, they will go round and round if you make a circle and never cross the chalk...my Mom always put a chalk like on all the windowsills....worked like a charm....did it to show my children...they were amazed

                                                                  2. Coffee grounds pick up any fats that may have accumulated on its way down the pipes.

                                                                    Plumbers here are telling you not to pour them down the sink because THAT's what gets them more business.

                                                                    1 Reply
                                                                    1. re: CreamOfWeber

                                                                      that is exactly what my uncle, who, as I said in two other posts, owns a very successful plumbing company in NYC...he has told the family to do this with coffee grinds and don't think he wants to hurt the family since he would be the one who would have to come and fix the problem...and it has worked for decades...

                                                                    2. Dad tossed them under the orange tree back home. The nightcrawlers loved them nom nom nom.

                                                                      As to them cleaning the pipes, it sounds odd as they would have to stay in the pipe long enough to work their magic. Ideally they are flushed in one swoop to the nether regions. Besides, you shouldn't be dumping grease down the drain in the first place. I have a septic, and no undigested food goes down the drain. I also don't drink coffee -unless you count Kahlua-so this is all a moot point for me.

                                                                      3 Replies
                                                                      1. re: BIGGUNDOCTOR

                                                                        No you shouldn't dump grease down the drain... but in washing your dishes grease inevitably ends up going down the drain.

                                                                        The grounds work their magic on their way down and out.

                                                                        1. re: BIGGUNDOCTOR

                                                                          So by your logic we should let toothpaste sit on our teeth indefinitely in order for it to work? That is nonsense. The coffee grinds bump against and dislodge particles as they travel along the pipes, just like toothpaste scours your teeth as your brush.

                                                                          1. re: Mdragon77

                                                                            think you need to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, no? and tootpaste is a good 'spackle'....hardens just like it....so, if you want you can spackle your mouth...lol no one is stopping anyone (YET) from doing what they want...live by your own rules and no one's ideas or opinions are 'nonesense' as you said it is their opinion, not fact

                                                                        2. Any one know what Starbucks does with their used grounds?

                                                                          6 Replies
                                                                            1. re: subal

                                                                              They offer them in nice-sized bags for free, usually in a small bin in front of counter, to anyone who walks in and grabs one.

                                                                              1. re: subal

                                                                                Yes... used to work at Starbucks. The espresso grounds that are knocked out of the tamper go into a trashbag. Lots of people come in and get them to use in their compost.

                                                                                The brewed grounds typically get thrown away with the filter. Anything left over in the tamper or brew tray get washed down the sink. And I can tell you, that's a lot of grounds.

                                                                                1. re: CreamOfWeber

                                                                                  Yes, I regularly load up my trunk with Starbucks' used grounds--great for my alkaline garden soil.

                                                                                  1. re: pine time

                                                                                    Does work wonders on Azaleas and Rhododendrons for sure, they are acid loving plants...and if you want a certain color to your 'snowballs' as we call them....they would work there also....because the color changes with the acidity and PH in your soil...think that is way that is explained...

                                                                              2. My uncle Charlie owns a plumbing company, very successful and know one, and he always told the family to put the coffee grinds down the sink because it keeps the drain clear of grease....he did this when he saw my Mom putting them in something separate...her home is 50 years old and not a single problem...and he never had problem in either of his homes...and one was in the country since he grew up there

                                                                                3 Replies
                                                                                1. re: BobbiBean

                                                                                  I don't know if I will agree with you on putting coffee grounds down the kitchen sink but I do know that they should NEVER be but down the kitchen sink through a garbage disposer, even without the paper filter.

                                                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                                                    it wasn't my idea, came from my uncle, as I said, who is a very successful plumber and owner of his own company in NYC...and it has worked for the entire family for a long time..but, don't use a paper filter, have the gold mesh permanent filter...if it ain't broke, as they say....I will continue to not fix it....

                                                                                    1. re: John E.

                                                                                      when I want to save in an empty coffee can for the acid loving plants in the garden, then I save - otherwise, here come sewer....

                                                                                  2. Have anyone ever tried brewing coffee with crushed eggshells along with the coffee for a better taste?

                                                                                    1. http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/865554

                                                                                      There are several accessories available to deal with disposal of coffee grounds from French Press clean up but a solution that is fast, simple, easy, cheap and has no other accessory to buy, clean, break or lose is to place a standard small coffee filter under the sink drain filter.


                                                                                      1. Good morning! I just tried to read through all the posts and was able to decide which wide the consensus was on!

                                                                                        I have recently begun using a peculator and when I am finished with the coffee, I've been emptying the majority of the grounds onto the grass outside my condo. That leaves a small amount of the grounds inside the peculator brew cup thing. I live in a second floor condo and have no idea what the plumbing situation is here (septic tank?).

                                                                                        Is it okay to put down the remaining grounds down the drain? Garbage disposal on or not?

                                                                                        Thank you so much for any and all help!

                                                                                        4 Replies
                                                                                        1. re: Tehama

                                                                                          If there is just a small amount of remaining coffee grounds, I would not worry about washing them down the kitchen sink. If you used a paper filter you could spread most of the coffee grounds outside and then put the filter and whatever coffee grounds remain into the trash.

                                                                                          1. re: John E.

                                                                                            Thanks so much! I don't think I have ever seen filters for peculators before. Do such a thing exist?

                                                                                            Should the garbage disposal be on when I am rinsing down the remaining used grounds?

                                                                                            I appreciate your help!

                                                                                            1. re: Tehama

                                                                                              We have a percolator at our cabin in northern Minnesota (although since I bought a manual drip we don't use it much anymore) and we just used a regular coffee filter and poked a hole in it for the percolator. Of course some of the grounds go through but it does help with the clean up.

                                                                                              It would not hurt to have the disposal running when you rinse off the basket from your coffee maker but ample water is more important. You won't be washing down enough coffee grounds to really matter.

                                                                                              1. re: John E.

                                                                                                Thanks, John for all those suggestions! I really appreciate it. Happy autumn to you and yours!

                                                                                        2. My grandfather was a plumber in the early days of plumbing, more than 100 years ago. My father once asked him about the coffee grounds drain-cleaning myth and my grandfather told him that plumbers invented the story to drum up business during the great depression. There you have it.

                                                                                          1. They go in the trash. How easy is that?