meat and fruit..so verr verr wrong...
- purple goddess Apr 18, 2007 11:07 PM
I just canna do it. Pineapple on Pizza.. or worse, Apricot Chicken **shudder** Figs and prunes belong on compotes NOT in stews, and currants in curry... BLECH!!!!!
Stone fruit in the occasional salad, I can stomach, but Ham and pineapple is WRONG, people VERRY VERRY WRONG!!!
IS it me??
Am I manifesting my early foodie angst at my mothers famous "cat's Vom" casserole (tinned pulped pineapple, a shredded left over roast chicken and dehydrated carrotss and peas in a cornflour glaze)
Perhaps a reaction to the early "chinese" cuisine, made famous by the ubiquitous "sweet and sour" pork
And syrup on bacon...
Is this a cultural thing, or are there others out there that think that sweet and sour is the combination of da debbil..
Anyone with me??
Want to try to convert me??
Any authentic Morrocan Tagine contains a salt cured lemon. Also, with pork loin I serve carmelized apples with tarragon and green onion; no one seems to complain about that. Plenty of marinades contain a citrus element or is that too obscure? What's Indian food without Chutney? Am I making any in roads?
I had a morrocan cured lemon in a seafood dish once once... was very VERY bitter.. and flavoured all the rest of the dish otherwise... prolly badly done, but reinforced my fruit/meat phobia. I personally don't like apples (caramelised or sauced) with pork,, it's wrong. I'm weird, I know (Cranberry and turkey... **shudder**). I AM ok with citrus elements.. I love a wee bit of finely diced lime rind in my batter for fish.. It's more the chunks of golden circle pineapple on my pizza.. or the the prunes in a stew, that I am ranting on about.
I hadn't thought of chutneys... Mmmmmmmmmm brinjal pickle... green mango chutney... you're right!!! I'm not cured, but I can see the light...
re: purple goddess
That must have been a bad cured lemon. It should have been savory and tangy.
This topic brings me again to one of my usual points--we don't have to like everything. I'm all for trying new things, and even trying things we dislike again and again if we think there's a good reason to do so. But there's no sense in grossing yourself out trying to like something you just don't. At some point, we should make peace with our tastes!
The sandwich place across the way does a very yummy turkey and grilled plantain panini. It adds a little bit of sweetness without being overpowering.
It inspired me to go with a side of plantains instead of cranberry sauce for our Christmas dinner turkey last year, which seemed to go over well with the family.
I love mango salsa with spicy BBQ'd prawns. ANd I love citrus on almost anything.
Apples and pork totally match. Duck a l'orange anyone?
I suspect that modern American cooking an anomaly when it comes to using fruit with meat. The combination was common in Medieval cooking, and can still be found in a number of other cuisines. For example the well known chef of El Bulli in Spain has a recipe for dressing up grocery store rotisserie chicken with fruits.
Have you tried pork (or bacon) with plums or plum sauce?
or duck with apples?
I like these done in Polish style...
If not overcooked, they are really yummy!
I also have a (seemingly ideosyncratic, considering the ubiquity of "mango salsa" on seafood of late) strong aversion to fruit with meat. I've had particular dishes that worked, but I attribute those to the peculiar talent of the chef (and probably a TOTAL LACK of added sugar) rather than any "natural affinity" of the ingredients. I particularly despise "sweet and sour" anything. This is probably also why I don't like Pad Thai.
One of my first favorite foods was "Hawaiian" pizza with ham and pineapple. I still love pizza with pineapple, but my husband hates it.
In general, I love any combination of sweet and savory, which includes most combinations of meat and fruit.
Syrup on sausage, yes!
I admit, however, that if I had been subjected to your mother's casserole, I would probably have the same aversion to fruit and meat.
I like my "Hawaiian" with extra onion. Unfortunately the human brain becomes conditioned after several similar responses to the same stimulus. If you have too many bad experiences with fruit in your food you will develop a natural aversion to it. In other words there is nothing wrong with the way you feel, you just don't like some things that others do.
Mmm, pepperoni pineapple pizza..
I'd have to agree here though, it's all about what you grew up with, especially if certain foods made you sick when you were a kid (Broccoli for me, ugh). --It's the same reason my mom and most of my family can't stand my grandmothers Cherry Jello Salad, while all the grandkids (who never grew up with it) don't mind it at all. Yes, even with the cream-cheese center.
You've not had skewered fresh figs wrapped in proscuitto, drizzled with balsamic vinegar and grilled?
Don't share your aversion, but then I've never seen a purple goddess.
Pork chops and applesauce
Ham and plum sauce
Duck and fruit sauce
Curry and chutney
Ham and pineapple
Tamarind fish soup
Smoked capybara and applesauce
Ever tried a good venison roast prepared with berries? Prosciutto and figs? Pork and apricots? Chicken and fruit salsa?
Perhaps your aversion is not to fruit and meat butto fruit and meat prepared badly?
There are many choices listed here that are all delicious and not uncommon combos. And they are not all sweet and sour.
Can't say I've tasted capybara, but they are sure hard to come in these parts. (Capybara is a south am., pig right?)
re: Sam Fujisaka
Yup, they're something like gigantic guinea pigs. The amazing thing is that, despite their size, they make nearly identical noises to the guinea pigs that many keep as pets. It's oddly cute and kind of disconcerting.
I have a small herd of guinea pigs at home, and every time I hear (as I have fairly often recently in food media) about how increasingly popular cuy (pronounced 'qui', as I've heard it) is for the dinner table in South America, my brain does somersaults as I calculate how much I've spent on vet bills for my critters... Life is strange...
In my mind - with a few exceptions - fruit and meat are why we have plates with dividers! I had a roommate in college who would slather his pork chops with apple sauce while I would silently retch. I can't watch when MY OWN KIDS put syrup on their bacon and sausage. And the only way I want my figs is fresh, preferably right off the tree.
The only exceptions that come to mind are Chinese-style roast duck (or chicken) w/ plum sauce, and chicken marinated w/ lemon juice.
I generally dont like fruit, I am the last person to sit and eat an apple, or a banana, but for cooking I find using some fruits ok.
Orange juice used in a glaze for baked ham
Apple jelly for a glaze on a pork roast
Guacamole on a taco, or burrito
sliced avocado on a turket sandwich
some also consider hot peppers a fruit & I eat hot peppers, or hot sauces with everything.
My mother - extremely Hungarian and very very judgemental - had a particularly extreme dislike for meat with fruit, and especially SWEET meat with fruit. No duck a l'orange for her; no chicken with apricots; no beef with prunes; no apples in anything. She was a firm believer that MEAT should always be savoury. Sour, in fact. When she would taste a Polish or German version of cabbage rolls, she would wrinkle her nose in disgust and hiss: "Yuucchhh. Sveeeeet."
I don't share the dislike, but I must admit I don't like cranberry sauce with turkey.
Usually it depends on what kind of mood I'm in. I like apricot chicken, sweet and sour chicken and on Thanksgiving I love turkey with cranberry sauce in the same bite (stuffing too!)
The ultimate sweet and savory combo for me, though, is a Monte Cristo -- french toast, turkey, ham, swiss cheese with syrup. Mmmm.
But I neved did understand (or taste) pineapple on pizza...
I think this thread is hand-in-glove with another recent thread about many types of meat that simply don't have the taste that they used to, what with advancements (?) with feed, growth hormones, ageing (or not), freezing, etc. Fruity accompaniments can at least provide an extra kick of flavor, like a marinade or a piquant sauce. For those, and there are many on this post, who don't like sweet with meat: there are many roads to Mecca. I never knew 'til now that my baked apple with my pork loin is barf-o-rama to some folks! I have my own difficulty watching someone pour ketchup on mashed potatoes, or grape jelly on their barramundi.
It's just you. And why would I want to convert you? Sweet and savory food combinations have been around for millenium and are a part of almost every cuisine in the world. Grade B Maple syrup on sausages or bacon is an amazing taste combination. Pineapple and pepperoni pizza... mmmm. Fruit added to almost any recipe gives you a more complex dish and can take it from boring to sublime.
My favorite classic Italian meat-fruit pairing is prosciutto and melon (prosciutto e melone).
They appear in several guises at excellent Italian restaurants. Acquerello, Oliveto... and many non-Italian places including the French Laundry.
With all due respect, I think you are wrong.
Meat and fruits are fine.
I love Hawai'ian pizza with pineapple and canadian bacon.
Ditto with melons and prosciutto, or figs and bacon. Heck, I even like figs and foie gras.
And what's wrong with avocados in a sandwich with (any one of the following deli meats) roast beef, turkey, ham, etc.
I even like apples in my chicken salad, and sometimes I'll even crave some raisins with my tuna salad.
I would never think to turn down some good mango salsa with a nice seared albacore tuna filet; nor would I for that matter think it odd to add cherry compote to a nice thick pork chop.
And, really, who can resist a nice glazed pineapple slice on top of a juicy burger?
But then, to each its own ...
Years ago I dated a guy who liked raisins in his salad. I couldn't understand it until I tried it. Something about adding the sweet raisins and savory/salty dressing became really addicting.
Same thing with mandarin oranges. Depends on what else is going on in the salad, but having the right combination of ingredients plus mandarin oranges is now one of my favorites.
Also addicting is at Whole Foods. They have a prepared salad with lettuces, goat cheese, dried cranberries and pecans with balsamic vinaigrette. Years ago I would have never even tried it. Now I'm addicited!
I hate Hawaiian pizza too but not because it's fruit and meat, but because it's cheese and fruit. Gooey cheese and super sweet fruit? Yuck. Don't really like ham on pizza either.
But I think you are wrong. Sweet, sour, salt altogether in one dish the right way is great imo. I love mango salsa and lime marinated fish. And I have to say when I used to eat stuff like bacon and syrup, I liked them mixed together, but just a little bit. Applewood smoked bacon is plenty sweet though (to me) and really popular. And people put sugar on hams anyway so it's not like people don't do sweet & meat together.
Heck a hamburger with ketchup is basically meat & fruit...but I'd rather have a thick juicy slice of delicious sweet tomato than ketchup.
Yep you should probably at least try ceviche before you write off fruits and meats altogether.
I agree no fruit with meat,
All this have you ever had preserves, chutney, or anything like that with chicken makes me sort of feel sick just thinking about it.
Also, no to fruit even apples with pork.
Definitely not with beef.
NO sweet and Sour anything.
NO to syrup on sausage / bacon (yuck!)
It doesn't do it for me.
I might make exceptions for prosciutto with melon maybe or the fig thing but I might just pull off the prosciutto and eat them separately.
Is avocado a fruit? If it is I can do that. It's really the sweet thing with me.
Even the deserts I like would be the more unsweet ones. Like a dark chocolate cake or a tart (real tart) cherry pie. The less sugar the better.
I am not alone... and more than that, I am respected and lerved with all my anomalies and weird food ish-hews.
I truly am a happy hound!!
oh.. proscutto and melon....is just plain wrong. As is plum sauce on anything (except maybe icecream).. Hoisin sauce is ok in pho but not on/in anything else. Figs should be fresh of the tree and combined with goat's cheese in a tart....syrup on anything.. particularly bacon is beyong evil.
When I am Empress of the Universe, these combinations will be illegal.
Just warning y'all.
Actually, "hawaiian" pizza (that's what we call the ham and pineapple combination) is one of the few types of pizza that I will actually eat!!
I like the fruit/meat combination...I think its the sweet/salty thing. We often put raisins in our curries.....and I won't eat turkey without some type of cranberry sauce and/or chutney....
Hmmm. This is an interesting thread for me because while I almost never like sweet stuff in my food (unless it's supposed to be dessert of course) I do like certain meat and fruit pairings - like duck breast with dark cherry sauce for instance. And I love my mother's homemade cranberry sauce with turkey. Delicious.
But I grew up in an ethnically jewish household (read as mostly non-practicing) and my mother and grandmother made only savory versions of many of the dishes that most jewish families I knew made sweet versions of, like noodle kugel. Most people put raisins and sugar into this dish, which I find absolutely revolting and cannot bring myself to eat.
Interestingly I only agree with half of your issues. You mentioned that you did not like sweet and sour and I totally agree with that. But I do like sweet and savory which I believe is different. I also like sweet and salty.
I would not try to convert you. I think it is a combination of "a cultural thing", life experiences, and a willingness to try new things. ....an oh yeah, the lack of flavor in all foods, not just meat. Tomatoes, Peaches, oranges, nectarrines taste nothing like they used to when I was a kid. Mustard Greens had so much hair on them, you could comb them with a hair comb. I used to hate squash, rutabaga, onions when I was a kid. I love these things now. I attribute this to being open-minded and finding a different way of cooking them.
I liken it to a salty/sweet taste that needs to be met. One of my favorites, and my mom's and grandmom's morning after christmas breakfast was Stuffing and sweet potato pie, or stuffing and coconut cake. My aunt from Mississippi used to make dark brown gravy with sausage patties, buiscuits and serve it with Alaga Syrup. My grand ma used to say not to eat molasses with milk and fish, claiming it would kill you. As a defiant kid (without molasses) I would have my fish, milk and pan-fried onion-smothered white potatoes that I dipped in alaga syrup. 50 years later, I still love this, and so do my children, grandchildren and my one grreat-grandchild.
Gotta say, I couldn't be more polar opposite. I guess I just love strong flavors and lots of contrast and variety, so cold & hot, crunchy & creamy, sweet, savory and spicy all in one dish is my nirvana.
My favorite stand by weeknight warm weather dinner off the grill is a Mango Chicken Salad: grilled chicken breast mixed with fresh mango, grapes, red pepper, onion, cilantro, chiles, peanuts, and a spicy asian dressing made with fresh orange juice, lime juice, fish sauce and canola. Yum.
In fact, I love making a fresh fruit salsa with whatever is freshest and sweetest at the moment to serve over whatever I'm grilling.
To each his own I suppose.
I am with you!!!
I want my meat to taste savory and salty. I really can't stand most fruit combinations with meat like pork chops + apple sauce, or even worse, glazes. Citruses are the WORST for me. I just can't stand the flavor of the fruit with the meat. Then again, I'm kind of a fruit purist. I like fruit by itself, with the occasional cranberry in salads.
And dear god, that concotion of your mom's sounds scarring.
You are very astute in your where it came from attitude. Now we need to get you going down a different path. Grandma Jfood had two recipes, broiled and fried. I think because Granpa Jfood knew nothing about food, except what he learned at Guadelcanal and Iwo Jima, K-rations. Then Granpa Jfood left and I told Grandma, I ain't eating this stuff every night (at 12 years old). So Gramdma jfood called her sisters. They gave her some interesting recipes that expanded the fry and broil to include other flavors, including cranberry, apricot, the red jelly stuff in a bottle you put on ham, etc. After 12 years of fried fish and broiled chicken Jfood was in heaven, OMG a flavor other than ketchup.
Granted some of her recipes are to die for, and i say that in a literal sense, but it opened new food pleasures. Will jfood ever subject little jfoods to chicken covered with a can of cranberries, lipton onion soup and milano 1890 dressing, OMG shoot me now. But the flavors of fruit with meats and poultry are as enjoyable as a good BBQ sauce on some baby backs. On the door to my fridge are 5-10 different suace condiments for chicken, including "saucy susan." Think Peter Pan Syndrome.
Try slowly. Are there any fruits you like. If yes post them here and we can give you a basic idea of a good match for them. We have all looked at a plate of food with some tredidation, sometimes we jump and sometimes we jump for joy.
So take the first step and give us a chance. Worst case is you are back where you started, but at least you tried.
The jfoods love fruit, eat 2-3 oranges every night and the fridge has pineapple, cantaloupe, strawberries, honeydew, et. al. year round.
At first I was against you (even though earlier I said I would not try to convert you) and I still will not.
I just could understand why so many people were against sweet and savory. I later thought of how I love to drink wine but absolutly abhor the taste of it in meat dishes or sauces. I love to eat and as a courtesy, will eat most anything prepared for me... except anything prepared with wine. I don't have to see it prepared. I just don't like the taste and usually am unable to finish the meal. Didn't like the taste before I knew it was the taste of wine I didn't like. So all you chowhounders that don't understand like I didn't, think of something you dislike no matter how it is prepared or camoflagued (sic)
At first I thought you were being extreme, but then I think modern American cuisine has evolved to have EVERYTHING sweet and sour. I hate fruit salsa, or any type of fruit salad, but I love individual fruit. The thing is, people want everything to be sweet. Sweet=tasty in their book. (I'm generalizing here.) This can be gross, like when you go to a restaurant and order a meat with reduction dish and it's both sweet, salty, and maybe sour. yuck, how about sticking with good ingredients and learning how to cook? is my first thought.
that said, there are nice, well balanced combinations of sweet and sour like the aforementioned melon and prosciutto, and many chinese dishes. although apparently chinese food here is a sweeter version usually of how it's made in china.
I don't like it when they go overboard with fruit in savoury dishes... I like pork with fried apples, but mine has about a teaspoon of sugar in it and some lemon juice so you can taste the actual APPLE flavour rather than just sugar. A lot of American food seems to go overboard with the salt and sugar and it makes it just too much. If a little is good, they think a lot must by definition be better.
I had a turkey breast, rosemary, Swiss cheese, cranberry sauce panini recently. It was pretty tasty.
It's cetainly possible to have fruit in a meat dish without an excess of sweetness, and this is what I like. What passes for Duck a l'Orange or Sweet and Sour Pork in many restaurants is enough to put one off the combination altogether, however.
A squeeze of lemon on your fish? Coconut shrimp? Lamb shoulder chops braised with dried apricots? Pemmican (admittedly not quite the rage is used to be)?
I soo have to agree with you PG. My particular dislike in the fruit and meat (or even for me fruit and side dish) discussion is raisins...blech! Or frankly any dried fruit. But there are some pairing that I like so, like you its not a hard and fast rule. Of course there is orange or lemon chicken which I love (citrus for me is the exception to the rule.)
The SO the other night was making dinner, he said we were going to have applesauce with dinner. I think I looked at him with a look of horror! He said, applesauce is a dinner thing I always had applesauce with dinner growing up. I said you can have it...I'm not, or I would have it for dessert!
Citrus is a whole 'nother ball game.. leon and lime on chicken/fish... all good for that.
Duck a la Orange??
It's the sweet swet thing, I think that gets me. Who ever first paired prunes and meat.. raisins and meat... apricots and chicken...
I can't even do honey glazes. **shudder**
But I CAN do coconut and meat.
I am so glad I'm not alone... and yes, I AM awared I am denying myself a whole world of food experiences.
Damn my mother's cats-vom stew **shakes fist at sky**
I'm with you, PG. 99% of the time, I don't want fruit (or anything sweet really) near my meat.
Keep those apricot preserves away from my pork or chicken. Leave orange out of the equation completely when it comes to meat. Cherry compote with meat? Not for me. Please don't put my bacon on the same plate as my syrupy pancakes. Grapes in chicken salad? No thanks.
I will admit to a few fruit/meat likings however. Lemons and limes in general go well with meat. They aren't sweet. Tomatoes...well, that's a fruit that I don't count as a fruit anyway. I do like a nice mango salsa with a hunk of tuna though. As long as it has plenty of onion, cilantro and lime to offset the sweet of the mango.
I think it may be the whole sweet/meat combination that I don't care for.
Okay, so are we talkin' meat 'n fruit or sweet 'n savory here? Because the last time I checked syrup wasn't a fruit and fries and ketchup are way sweet 'n savory. It seems to me that it's just certain fruit and meat combos, right? I'm guessing that a lot of you anti sweet 'n savory people would be just fine with a nice bbq chicken and c'mon - sugar and/or corn syrup is in just about everything we eat.
Why would I want to convert someone with such strong food aversions? I have to say that casserole of your mom's did sound seriously DIS-gusting. I say, eat what you want and be thankful that we are all lucky enough to be so damn picky.
I love most fruit and meat combinations. It's one of my favorite things. Grilled lobster and fresh grilled peaches together..yum! Pork with chestnuts and figs! Duck baked with fresh apricots!
Like the late Justin Wilson used to say of wine "Da right kind of wine to drink with 'yo food is da kind ya like!" in other words,if you enjoy it,great!,if you don't great!, I would imagine you would shudder to know that my best memories of holidays when i was a kid,was to raid the fridge,get some of my grandmothers home made bread,put turkey,or ham on it then some dressing,and a big spoon full of her home made fruit salad(pineapple,grapes lemon juice,egg yolks marshmallows,and whipped cream),or some of her cranberry sauce....'haven't had one of those in 22 years,....man i miss that,so yes fruit and meat,salty and sweet,i also love hot and sweet,what can i say I'm a human garbage can! LOL
Historically Indian cuisine reflects some of our oldest fruit and meant recipes going back thousands of years, one small example their curries (vegetarian, fish and meat) were always accompanied some kind of fruit such as sliced banannas and coconut. Asian cuisine has always palyed off the subtle combindations of sweet and sour. Our tastes are developed from early dietary exposures as children and perhaps this has moulded your tastes.....would love to provide you with my Pork Chop and Prune (marinated in white wine recipe)....straight from the galley of the Royal Britannia....interested??? I mean Cranberry compote served to accompany roast Turkey is a 250 year old American tradition.
I don't care whether you convert or not but I love fruit and meat in so many forms I can't remember them all. The combination of sweet and savory, when prepared properly, is amazing. For example:
Anything Moroccan or Armenian with dried prunes and apricots and poultry or lamb.
Indian dishes with raisins and coconut.
Roast pork with apples and raisins in a riesling reduction.
Roast pork/venison or beef tenderloin with a port reduction with dried cherries.
Poultry or pork with cranberry sauce.
White pizza with pineapple and ham. (the thought of tomatoe sauce and pineapple makes me retch).
Shrimp and pineapple skewers.
Mango, peach, or pineapple salsa with grilled fish.
Fois gras and sauternes.
And of course wine (made from grapes) goes with everything!
Interesting thread. I won't try to convert anyone to liking anything. Too hard to do.
I will note that, judging from some of the posts by "fruit-and-savory" haters, the aversion is most ingrained in people whose "native cuisine" shuns hot spices-- the ones where the mere whisper of the word "pepper" sends devotees running from the kitchen screaming in horror. Still, how do you explain the lovely combination of Swedish roasted duck with lingonberries? Not the liveliest of cuisines and they manage a great sweet-with-savory marriage.
It has to be bad experience from childhood. Say, when the cherry cobbler got marred by salisbury steak gravy in a Swanson frozen dinner. Or your turkey accidentally touched a glob of that canned cranberry sauce junk. I feel for you.
I love how fruit and salads go together: the chinese/asian chicken salad with orange segments; cranberry tuna salad; waldorf chicken salad w/ apple slice & grapes; curry chicken salad w/ berries; tostada with avocado/guacamole; thai chicken and papaya salad..the list goes on.
This is just a random query, but does anyone know where did the following popular image rose from: the whole roasted pig with an apple in his mouth?
I love fruit and fruit and meat are divine. My favorites: duck confit with a wild berry fruit compote, Fois gras torchon with apricot gelee, roasted pork loin with dried cherries, mesclun salad with gorgonzola, grilled chicken, pecans and sliced pear, chicken tagine, citrus scented roast chicken. Chicken tandoori masala with mango pickle and chutney. Yum!
I love fruit and meat. Growing up we had gorgeous peach trees in the garden and at the end of the season mother would put up jars of the wonderful fruit. Mid-winter the peaches would be served with all sorts of roasts. The spiced fruit was delectable...better than chutney which we all enjoyed as well. I guess it's what one gets used to.
Needles to say, from the other responses you received, it is not just you.
For the most part, I am with you on this, especially where "Chinese" sweet & sour sauce is concerned. But time does change one's tastes: as a child, I loved my mother's orange juice chicken (and I have no idea what was involved other than chicken and a can of frozen orange juice, the only kind available in middle-class suburban Milwaukee households in the 50s & 60s), but since the age of 10, it has held no appeal for me. Likewise, the traditional (at least in my family) Passover tzimmis with the hunks of beef stewed with dried pears, onions, dried apricots, prunes, and potatoes has always been my least favorite Passover dish.
I have to say that while I created some infamously nauseating concontions out of random stuff from the fridge while in college and the following years of poverty, nothing was as unappetizing sounding as your mother's cassarole. That would have put me off food forever. (With all due respect to your mother, no doubt a very well meaning if misguided cook.)
"Fortunately, his recipe for Duck a la Banana goes to the grave with him."-4 Weddings and a Funeral