391006 Thu Apr 12 10:08:02 -0700 2007 128 29 Not About Food 0 2474221 Okay, here's a Miss Manners-type question. Would you show up to a dinner empty-handed if you had asked the host/hostess what you could bring and s/he had said "just bring yourself?" Personally, I can't imagine showing up without a bottle of wine or flowers, unless perhaps, the host/ess is your best friend and it's a casual last minute "come on over for dinner" invite. What do people think? Thu Apr 12 10:08:02 -0700 2007 26542 suse 1 2474253 I would not show up empty-handed. I actually keep a small stash of 'hostess gifts' on hand in case I can't get to the liquor store or flower shop. Examples of these gifts include small travel books that I buy on sale (e.g., Gardens of Portugal) or sometimes notecards purchased on a trip. Just the way I was brought up, and yes, many of my friends laugh at me for this compulsion. Not the friends getting the gifts, of course... Thu Apr 12 10:13:28 -0700 2007 2474221 59668 eddieandcleo 1 2474258 I have always brought at least a bottle of wine or some flowers. When I was invited to my sister's in-laws for Thanksgiving, I brought a small orchid in a cute little pot. I never go to someone's house without something. On the other hand, my SO had no idea this was the polite thing to do until we started dating. We were headed to a friend's for dinner and I told him to stop at the store on the way. When I explained, he was dumbfounded and asked me if he'd been rude all those years. I said 'yes.' He's still with me years later and is the first to grab beer or wine when we head to a party/dinner. Thu Apr 12 10:13:43 -0700 2007 2474221 76025 mojoeater 1 2474287 I'm frequently the hostess who has replied, "Oh, nothing, please! Just bring yourself," to that inquiry. And I really mean it when I say it, especially if it's one of those just-before-dinner calls saying, "We're on our way. Anything you need?" I've already planned what wine I'm going to serve so I really don't want wine. And, if I wanted flowers at my dinner, I'd probably already have those arranged, too. Having to stop what I'm doing when a guest arrives with a bunch of cut flowers can interrupt the kitchen flow: you've got to trim the stems, find and fill a vase, arrange the flowers and make a place for them where they can be seen. An arrangement in a low bowl or vase, already set up, would be preferable, I think, if you must. On the other hand, I have also put in a request for, say, a wonderful loaf of bread if I know that a stop at a particular bakery is convenient for my guest - but ahead of time, not at the last minute. Or, if I've discovered that I've run out of something that I need for some part of the meal and the market is on the way and it's a really good friend, then I'll ask them to stop and pick up some whatever-it-is. If you're going to ask, then I think you should trust your host/hostess to tell you the truth and go along with the answer. At most, if you absolutely can't stand showing up empty-handed, maybe bring some chocolates that he/she can opt to put out with after-dinner coffee or some interesting jarred gourmet item that can go into the pantry after the appropriate oohs-and-aahs. Or something entertaining-related, like pretty paper hostess towels for powder room. Thu Apr 12 10:19:23 -0700 2007 2474221 10787 Deenso 2 2474351 I agree. Even though I usually like to pick up a bottle of wine, an app, or dessert on the way to someone's house, there are certain people (like my SO's mother) who truly find it unnecessary or even inconvenient to receive a hostess gift. In cases like that, where the hostess insists, I try to be respectful of their wishes. Instead, I always try to send a thank note after the event to show my appreciation. Thu Apr 12 10:31:21 -0700 2007 2474287 43163 ultrvioltx 2 2474929 I understand what you mean re: having to cut/arrange flowers, but I believe any wine that is brought is a gift to the hostess, and shouldn't expect to be used before/during/after that particular dinner. Although I know that expectation of it not being used at *that* dinner party doesn't always jive with whoever's giving the wine. :-) Thu Apr 12 12:43:04 -0700 2007 2474287 10532 LindaWhit 1 2474288 I think it's always nice to bring a little something when invited over for a dinner. However, it's important to bring items that will not inconvenience the host or hostess, especially if they're preparing something elaborate. I think sometimes even a bouquet of flowers isn't the best because then the hostess has to go and find a vase, cut the stems, and arrange them right there. Bottles of wine are great, but don't expect it to necessarily be opened that night - if the food has been carefully planned, chances are the beverages have been too. I personally would find it odd to receive a book or notecards as a hostess gift for a dinner party. A thank-you note after the fact would be even better. I think most people do feel the need to bring something, so the smart hostess should plan for this by having an answer ready to the inevitable question - 'What should I bring?' Thu Apr 12 10:19:25 -0700 2007 2474221 35158 keslacye 2 2474304 When I bring flowers, they are already vased or if I know the person well enough, I'll take care of them when we arrive. Thu Apr 12 10:21:34 -0700 2007 2474288 76025 mojoeater 3 2474347 I used to bring a bouquet of flowers. And then, years ago, on Chowhound I read someone's post about the host/ess having to stop, find a vase, etc... And I realized that it was probably pretty annoying to them. And now that I've started entertaining a lot more in the last few years, I really realized that the flower thing was annoying when someone brought them to me! I would never go empty handed, though. Now that I have small kids and we often go to other people's houses with kids, often I will just bring something small for the kids. My friends usually do the same. Thu Apr 12 10:30:12 -0700 2007 2474304 10205 valerie 4 2474416 Funny about the flowers. At one of our seders last week, two separate guests brought flowers. They were really beautiful and very much appreciated BUT you're right, I had to stop everything, find a vase, cut them down, throw away the loose leaves and display them in the dining room. I wouldn't dream of complaining about getting flowers but having them already vased - or doing it yourself when you arrive with them would be the very best of both worlds. I will remember to do that next time I bring them somewhere. (Mental note to self: buy a few plain glass vases at second hand shop and have them on hand for just such an occasion.) Thu Apr 12 10:47:28 -0700 2007 2474347 12383 Nyleve 5 2474421 I got some at the 99 cent store! Thu Apr 12 10:48:32 -0700 2007 2474416 76025 mojoeater 6 2503164 Darn... I can give the her some for free just because we have so many vases... probably from our guests! :-) Sat Apr 21 20:38:59 -0700 2007 2474421 93291 boltnut55 5 2474474 Certainly I wouldn't complain because it's a nice gesture, BUT, the other thing about flowers is that when I entertain for a holiday dinner, I get flowers for the center of the table. I like to arrange them they way I like to arrange them! I have a variety of nice vases or sometimes I use little julep cups down the center of the long table (when did I become Martha Stewart?!) Plus right now we live in an apartment so just have one living room/dining room. There really isn't a helluva lot of places to put another vase filled with flowers so they end up getting stuck in the kitchen, where nobody really goes anyway (if I can help it!). Thu Apr 12 11:00:18 -0700 2007 2474416 10205 valerie 6 2474528 I would assume your guests know your space limitations and would bring something else then. Thu Apr 12 11:10:40 -0700 2007 2474474 76025 mojoeater 7 2474570 You would think! Thu Apr 12 11:19:59 -0700 2007 2474528 10205 valerie 1 2474319 For me, it depends on your relationship w/the host/hostess and the type of gathering. I have simple dinners @ home for friends/family who live in the vicinity (<1 mi) a couple times a month (a gathering of 6-10 people). For these dinners, it's so casual, a hostess gift really isn't necessary (unless they want to supplement the meal w/dessert or drinks). Otherwise, hostess gifts are always welcome (though not expected). And in return, I reciprocate in kind. Thu Apr 12 10:25:17 -0700 2007 2474221 12873 OCAnn 1 2474324 Yes, I do. Typically a bottle or wine, liquor or champagne. I also call when on the way to make sure the hostesss doesn't need ice or another last minute item. Thu Apr 12 10:26:15 -0700 2007 2474221 11990 Janet from Richmond 2 2488052 I concur with Janet from Richmond............always a 'spirit' of some kind and always a phone call to offer to pick up something like ice etc. Would someone tell my brother-in-law? Tue Apr 17 07:20:20 -0700 2007 2474324 78717 pearlD 1 2474353 I seem to be like most people and offer to bring something both at invitation and again on the day of the event. As I'm at an age where meals at friends houses rarely approach formal, I'll usually bring something to drink that I think everyone will enjoy, or if I know it's going to be provided, something that the host specifically will enjoy. Conveniently, with most of my friends, bringing a bag of ice is almost always a huge help. Thu Apr 12 10:31:54 -0700 2007 2474221 76461 MeAndroo 2 2474364 Ice is often the perfect hostess gift.....and cheap....LOL. Can't have too much ice for a party. Thu Apr 12 10:34:56 -0700 2007 2474353 11990 Janet from Richmond 1 2474446 Unfortunately, most of the dinner invites I get from relatives are, "Please come for dinner, this is what you can bring." Usually a salad or side or dessert, but sometimes the main course. I'm up for a potluck as much as the next 'hound, but this drives me nuts. When I entertain at my house, I NEVER ask anyone to bring a dish. Oh, and we rarely get dinner invitations from friends since no one cooks. Thu Apr 12 10:55:23 -0700 2007 2474221 49179 jennywinker 2 2474565 What an interesting thread! Most of the dinner parties I attend are very casual with close friends. Even calling them "dinner parties" seems much too formal, so bringing a hostess gift would seem silly to them. Ideally, I'll bring something for dessert as that's my forte but that's where I run into trouble occasionally, even with close friends. It's hard to tell sometimes if people are rejecting my offer to bring something because they really have the meal planned and want to control what's being served or if they don't want me to go to the trouble. So, I always just let them know that it really isn't any trouble as I enjoy it and if they still insist I shouldn't bring anything, I don't! Thu Apr 12 11:19:11 -0700 2007 2474446 82634 sarahvagaca 1 2474499 I'm a hostess who really hates when people bring flowers to a dinner party. It means I have to stop what I'm doing and find a vase and deal with flowers. If you really want to send flowers, send them the day after as a thank you. (or even a thank you note... a real note, not an e note). On the other hand if you feel you want to bring something... a nice bottle of wine or olive oil or some such thing is lovely. But again, NOTHING that you have to serve that night. If I've spent time planning a menu I don't enjoy when someone comes with a cake that I then have to accomodate. However, if someone does bring unwanted flowers or cake, the polite hostess will always make a fuss and say thank you and leave the heavy sigh for later. Thu Apr 12 11:05:34 -0700 2007 2474221 28006 Jennalynn 2 2476006 Wow. I have to say, I've been given flowers as a hostess, and it would never occur to me to find any gesture annoying... let alone to hate it. You all must be throwing significantly more taxing parties than I do. But for flowers specifically, usually what I do is if it's a good friend who brought flowers, I ask them to put them in a vase themselves, and if it's not, I grab a good friend and ask them to put the flowers in a vase. Anything edible or drinkable I open and serve immediately. No one who has ever been to my house would bring something like an actual side dish or dessert, because I plan too much for that to make sense, but if a new guest made that mistake, I would definitely find a way to incorporate their contribution. On the guest side, I do always bring something, and it's almost always wine unless it's a potluck party. If a host(ess) says I don't have to bring anything, and it's someone I'm friends with at all (not like, a friend's parent or someone I work for, but basically anyone else), I tell them I'm going to buy them something so they should probably tell me what they prefer, or I might guess totally wrong. Sometimes I give a silly example ("If you don't tell me what kind of wine to get, I might show up with chocolate soy milk instead... you should probably give me directions"). I guess this style is a little aggressive, but it's an accurate, because I don't show up empty-handed, even if the host never brings me anything and even if they say not to bring anything, because bringing something is just what I'm comfortable with. Thu Apr 12 17:15:33 -0700 2007 2474499 11485 Adrienne 3 2476039 It does depend on the relationship involved. If my best friend is having a cookout, I'll say something like "I make a mean potato salad. Should I bring some?" More than likely she'll say yes, or tell me what she'd prefer I bring, or ask me to get there early to cook and set up. If it's someone I don't know well who is a coworker or a friend of a friend, or if a good friend is cooking dinner, I'll bring wine or beer. If it's someone I don't know well who is someone's parents or older friends, I'll ask someone who knows them better or bring a small potted plant or vased flowers. I got burned once bringing wine to a dinner where the hosts had an issue with alcohol. They were polite but obviously not pleased. Thu Apr 12 17:26:26 -0700 2007 2476006 76025 mojoeater 1 2474687 Yes, always, always, ALWAYS bring something for the host or hostess. As other have said, as hostess, I find flowers lovely but sometimes problematic in the moment. I usually bring a bottle of wine or (if I have enough time) some homemade bread/muffins for the host or hostess to have the morning after. Thu Apr 12 11:47:01 -0700 2007 2474221 26708 sidwich 1 2474840 Nobody ever made a rule that you had to bring wine or flowers. Lord knows there have been enough posts on CH about the dilemmas that can be caused by these simple gifts - to open or not, the burden of finding a vase, etc. Other hostess gifts are so easy and just as thoughtful and welcome. Little consumables such as nice quality candles (good beeswax white tapers), hostess soaps, jordan almonds, after dinner mints, cocktails napkins, wine glass charms, a book of cocktail recipes, spiced nuts, good jelly, a potted herb in a small basket, note cards. A few small toys if you know that your hosts have children are nice touches. You may even find things on sale to keep in a drawer to grab as you're going out the door. Some of these things cost less than wine or flowers if your funds are limited but they sometimes seem much more thoughtful and may be more welcome. Thu Apr 12 12:26:18 -0700 2007 2474221 32444 MakingSense 2 2475207 "Little consumables such as nice quality candles (good beeswax white tapers), hostess soaps, jordan almonds, after dinner mints, cocktails napkins, wine glass charms, a book of cocktail recipes, spiced nuts, good jelly, a potted herb in a small basket, note cards." The list is pushing the 'danger' zone of the clash of personal style/tastes. No one ever has given me a candle that I liked. As for cheap wine, in worst-case you can always cook with it. There was a great article in the NYTimes recently on how the author ran experiment and found that cooking was a great equalizer. Sometimes, when I go to the non-drinkers' house I bring my own wine. It's only in cases when either if the hosts are good friends, or the hostess casually answers to my what should I bring 'maybe wine if you're going to have some for dinner, as I have no clue what to get'. If I go to the house of non-drinkers whom I don't know well and have not been told to bring wine, I just drink whatever they offer me (water). Thu Apr 12 13:42:42 -0700 2007 2474840 12766 welle 3 2475349 All gifts potentially push a "danger zone" unless you put at least some minimal thought into them. I wasn't suggesting wild scented candles from a hippie dippie head shop. Something safe like plain good white tapers can either be used or "re-gifted." Gifts should be pretty quietly generic unless you know the recipient's taste well. Something they can offer after dinner, save for themselves, or even pass on to someone else. I'd much rather have any of those than a supermarket mixed bouquet or bad wine obviously bought out of obligation. Not to sound ungrateful, but most of those show little thought beyond "Oh my God, I can't show up empty-handed!" Thu Apr 12 14:10:43 -0700 2007 2475207 32444 MakingSense 1 2474873 It's taken me YEARS to convince people i know NOT to bring ANYTHING to dinner. Time after time after time I'd end up with bottles of NASTY $7.99 Argentinian wine that's at least 50% antifreeze. I appreciate the gesture and all, but when I say "just bring yourself" I mean it. If I'd wanted something, like rolls or cupcakes or icecream, I'd ask. If I know the crowd will definitely not listen to me, I'll tell them to bring some kinda dessert. That's usually safe. Thu Apr 12 12:32:43 -0700 2007 2474221 12359 monkeyrotica 2 2474924 I can't count the times I brought a NICE nice wine which was swiftly stashed away and then I'm condemned to drink the $7.99 crap poured at the party. Grrrrrrrr...... Thu Apr 12 12:42:30 -0700 2007 2474873 57170 Veggo 3 2474986 Growling b/c people didn't open the wine you brought is not gracious. Better to give nothing than to have attitude about it. Its a gift, they can drink it when and how they want. That said, learn a lesson - Why spend money on good wine for people who serve crappy plonk (some $7.99 bottles are excellent, BTW - price doesn't mean much) with dinner again and again. If they like Yellowtail, spending money to buy them something good is a waste. Give them Yellowtail. Thu Apr 12 12:56:56 -0700 2007 2474924 68210 andytee 4 2475032 Sage advice, andytee. My growls are inaudible and I grin and bear it. But sometimes that nice wine would pair so well with that nice meal; it's just not meant to be that night. Se la vie. Second time around we make the adjustments you suggest. Thu Apr 12 13:07:25 -0700 2007 2474986 57170 Veggo 4 2483072 actually, better than giving the yellowtail drinker more yellowtail - give a bottle of one of the many good wines you can buy for around $7.99. something accessible and affordable, but a little tastier and more refined. last night i drank a viognier from clay station, at $8.99 (trader joes) a bottle it is a good gift for that might pique the interests of someone who likes (or is familar with) mediocre cal. chardonnay, but is also something that could also be served to and appreciated (or at least enjoyed) by a serious vinophile. there are plenty of great chiantis, riojas, ribera del deuros, some cotes de rhones, sauvingnon blancs, and all sorts of good argentine wines out there for less than $10 that drink as well as many more expensive bottles. find them, they are a joy to explore and make great gifts who think that their wine choices are limited to either $30 napa cab or $7 yellowtail. when you are paying $5-$10 a bottle, there is no harm done if you dont like it - use it for a marinade or something, and just move on. few of us can afford to serve $30 bottles at a party, but that doesnt mean we need to serve bad wine. personally, i think the surest sign of someone who doesn't know much about wine is that they are still convinced they have to spend a lot of money to get something good. some of my favorite bottles cost under $10. i can't say i have the most expensive tasting experience, but i have def. tried wines in a lot of price ranges, and again, find the the price tag doesn't necessarily tell you much. i specifically remember a tasting of some great oregon pinot noirs, the most expensive bottle there (wish i could remember the name) was universally judged to be one of the least interesting, and a little know $20 bottle (cheap by oregon pinot standards) was knocking everybody's socks off. Sun Apr 15 12:52:48 -0700 2007 2474986 68210 andytee 1 2474909 Yes, if the host says all you need to bring is yourself, the most gracious thing you can do is do what they say. Just bring yourself. A gift is sometimes appreciated but never necessary or obligatory. Part of what makes a gift special is that you don't give one every time - then it becomes "payment" and is utterly graceless. You have done your part by asking if there is anything you can bring. If the host declines, there is no need to second guess them. If you want to repay the favor, invite them over to your place sometime and cook for them. Thu Apr 12 12:39:16 -0700 2007 2474221 68210 andytee 1 2475091 The jfoods ALWAYS bring a gift. When we ask if we can bring something that is a gesture of "can we help?" That in no way excuse the other basic courtesy of bringing a thank you gift for the host(ess). It's not a "get out of jail free" card. To the points of the flowers and the wine (other threads have addressed this) these are a gift. Let's assume you brought a nice candy dish all wrapped up. Would you require the host(ess) to open it? I don't think so, so why because it's a bottle of wine is that any different? And to those who think their gifted wine is gifted, please get over it. Maybe I do not want wine served at all. There are only two instances where the brought wine should be opened: 1 - The host(ess) looks at it and says, I would love to open this bottle, would you mind, or 2 - The host(ess) asks us to bring a wine for the dinner Notice in both instances, the host(ess) is directing. Flowers - As others have said. There is enough action going on at Kitchen Jfood to stop and start trimming and arranging. I have a simple rule for flowers. I do the big huggy thing with the people who brought them, thank them so much and then put them out of the way to take care of when every one leaves. I then make sure to tell them when we thank them for coming the next day that their flowers look lovely in the XXX room. Thu Apr 12 13:20:23 -0700 2007 2474221 11290 jfood 2 2475640 Jumping on board the jfood bandwagon on wine giving. I always bring a bottle (or beer on the rare occasion where it seems like it might be helpful, ie, crab boil, outdoor grill fest). One should never expect the wine you bring to be opened and the host shouldn't feel it necessary to open the wine. I've never had anyone feel that was at all odd. If the wine you are given is poor, you'll find out on your own later but since you've already been exceedingly polite in thanking the giver for the thoughtful gift, you needn't mention anything about it. Thu Apr 12 15:17:20 -0700 2007 2475091 80141 ccbweb 2 2476137 to me, insisting on always bringing a gift when someone invites you to dinner is as silly as insisting you get the tip when someone takes you out to lunch. its fun to treat people you care about, and when someone offers to do so (whether by taking you out or having you over), accept gracefully and without a fuss. later, return the favor. its that simple. Thu Apr 12 18:02:37 -0700 2007 2475091 68210 andytee 3 2476323 I couldn't agree more. But when I go to someone's home, I bring a bottle of wine. I don't try to come up wtih something super "creative" or fussy in terms of a gift. Thu Apr 12 19:07:59 -0700 2007 2476137 80141 ccbweb 3 2476942 i only insist on bringing gifts for the jfoods. if others do not believe in bringing a gift then they can decide not to bring them, but i do not agree with this basic courtesy and common manners. when i was a college student i never showed up at a poker game or watching monday night football without a six-pack or chips (i do not remember bringing flowers, whew). bringing a gift is not a substitute for having them to your house for a later dinner, i agree that "it's simple" but that future invite still does not override the "hosetess gift." Fri Apr 13 04:15:29 -0700 2007 2476137 11290 jfood 1 2475700 I frequently bring a small box from my favorite chocolatier, and slip them to the hostess with the comment that she should save them for herself, that way she doesn't feel obligated to open them if she already has a big dessert planned, and anyway, it is a gift for the host/ess, not for everyone at the party. I like to get my chocolates here... http://www.belgchocpiron.com/ Thu Apr 12 15:34:31 -0700 2007 2474221 86221 lulubelle 1 2475761 I come from a different part of the world, the Caribbean, English-speaking Caribbean to be precise and when someone invites you for dinner they never expect you bring anything but a good appetite. Of late, people have taken to asking what they can bring but the answer is frequently the same - nothing. Thu Apr 12 15:51:45 -0700 2007 2474221 26147 CAN 1 2476148 I must live in a simplified world on another planet: we all always bring wine to each other's dinners. Thu Apr 12 18:07:01 -0700 2007 2474221 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 2476166 Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I say it's poor form not to bring something. I usually take wine... but even if I'm told "bring yourselves", I turn up with a nice Pasta Dura for a BBQ, maybe... or some home made relish/mayo. For a dinner party, I'll prolly bring wine and chockies, maybe some really good/unusual crackers for the dips.. something relevant to the style of dinner party. Unfortunately, since I am the chowhound amongst my friends, I am ususally ALWAYS asked to bring something.. and I love it that way!! Thu Apr 12 18:13:01 -0700 2007 2476148 86137 purple goddess 1 2476164 I would never show up empty handed! I don't care if the hostess doesn't open my wine/chocolates/edible treat, I'm still bringing it. In Japan, one always brings a gift, and it is extremely rude not to do so. Fruit is a beautiful gift there (because it's so damned expensive!) but cakes and other baked goods, liquor, flowers, anything, is welcome (and expected). I did get burned once when I believed the "just bring yourself" line from the hostess. When I arrived without any offering, I found that she had laid out everything the others had brought--from strawberries to wine to chocolates, and was loudly announcing that we must try the whatever because so and so had brought it. Made us empty-handed rubes feel like, well, empty-handed rubes. Thu Apr 12 18:12:55 -0700 2007 2474221 74856 tokyorosa 1 2476231 When I say "just bring yourself," that's exactly what I mean. I invited you because I like you and enjoy your company, which is more than adequate repayment for my hospitality. I don't want any "contribution to the dinner," I am serving the menu I want to serve (and nothing else). I don't drink the wine I have, so don't bring any more. I don't even like flowers, they smell like funerals, plus I'm busy enough with the dinner so taking care of flowers is an unwanted extra burden. I don't want candy, or stupid knick-knacks to clutter up the house. If you have a jar of homemade pickles or relish, I'll take it, but it's not needed. What you COULD do is ... (ready for this? Drumm roll, please) ... RECIPROCATE. Thu Apr 12 18:33:39 -0700 2007 2474221 14479 wayne keyser 2 2476280 Excellent and best reply yet Wayne! I think that taking a gift does depend on how well you know the people. If it's my friends I see often and we're very casual with, not necessary to take a gift - gee, I've never even thought about it! But, then they're the people who have us over one time, we have them over the next, we've gotten into a groove. If it's the first time at someone's home for dinner I never show up empty-handed. Thu Apr 12 18:49:02 -0700 2007 2476231 50258 Axalady 3 2476407 Good point, Axalady. I think all etiquette rules are designed for relatively formal interactions... I agree that it would never even occur to me with a close friend that I had to make some specific exchange, I'd just know that over time we'd both give each other plenty and we would never need to count. Thu Apr 12 19:39:45 -0700 2007 2476280 11485 Adrienne 2 2484631 Nice idea, but some people don't have the space in their homes to reciprocate. Obviously, taking care of flowers is a burden that shouldn't be placed on the host(ess). But is it really so bothersome to accept a token of thanks from your guests? Even if it's a "stupid" gift, there was probably a good intention behind it. Mon Apr 16 05:34:18 -0700 2007 2476231 14139 Kagey 3 2484659 There are other ways of reciprocating (like taking people out to dinner); the issue is that the hostess gift does not eliminate the more fundamental obligation to reciprocate. Unfortunately, a lot of people are under the impression it does. That's one reason to make clear why hostess gifts are not obligatory. Mon Apr 16 06:00:54 -0700 2007 2484631 13819 Karl S 3 2484882 Reciprocate doesn't mean that just because your hosts had a dinner party for twelve, you have to as well - if you're really of such unequal means or circumstances, just ask your hosts over for dinner. If you don't have room in your home for any guests at all, then invite your friends out to dinner. As Karl S says below, "according to your means" - you don't have to break the bank, you don't have to take eight people out to dinner at the swankiest place in town if you can't afford it, but a thank-you note and some kind of a reciprocal invitation is a much better host(ess) gift than anything else. (suse, below, is not a big fan of the thank-you note, finding it less personal than a phone call or an e-mail, but personal snail mail is so rare in my mailbox these days that I find it a real treat to get a note in the mail, and I enjoy the exercise of composing a nice note myself.) All of that being said, when we're entertaining and guests ask what they can bring, we do usually say that beverages or flowers are welcome. I know that many many folks here, on this thread and on others I've read, say NO NO NO to flowers, and to be honest our guests do usually bring wine or beer instead, but I've never had a problem with taking a couple of minutes to deal with a bouquet - at the very least trimming the stems and parking them in a vase full of water till later. Much as a bottle of wine might or might not actually get served with the meal, I don't feel constrained to actally arrange and display a flower gift if it's not convenient, as long as I make sure that the flowers won't be dead by the time I get to deal with them. Mon Apr 16 07:34:49 -0700 2007 2484631 18512 Allstonian 4 2486814 It's not that I don't enjoy getting thoughtful snail mail, it's just that I find most thank you notes brief and impersonal. It's different when someone takes the time to compose a thoughtful note. Mon Apr 16 16:35:16 -0700 2007 2484882 26542 suse 3 2484896 K No such thing as a "stupid" gift, but as others have stated, the reciprocity is geared towrds the host(ess), not the dinner guests. If your abode is not a good site for a reciprical dinner for four, then by all means take them to a resto of your choice and within your economics. This is not a one-up sorta thing. The last thing you want to do is get into a pedulum effect of "well they took us here, we gotta take them ther." Little Jfood has been a guest at friend's vacation houses. We take the parents out to dinner to thank them for their generosity. We go to a resto that I know we will all like. It's the thought and the manners that are important not the number at the bottom of the charge slip. Mon Apr 16 07:40:25 -0700 2007 2484631 11290 jfood 3 2485286 Kagey, if someone doesn't have space for entertaining in their home, they can invite someone to a nice picnic at a free concert. Even small towns have those. The invitation itself, even when it's regretted, counts as reciprocating. You've made the effort and you're off the hook. Mon Apr 16 09:30:14 -0700 2007 2484631 32444 MakingSense 3 2487800 Good points by you guys about reciprocating, and I agree with them. What I took exception to in Wayne's post was the way he characterized some gifts. The implication, as I read it, was that some gifts are ok (homemade pickles) and some are not. That seems a little ungracious to me, since I put a lot of thought into what to bring as a host(ess) gift, as I expect lots of people do. And it makes me wonder if reciprocating by taking him to a resto I could afford, or to a picnic or concert would be good enough. Tue Apr 17 02:47:31 -0700 2007 2484631 14139 Kagey 1 2476363 You are never "required" by etiquette to bring other than a smile, a sociable attitude, gracious manners and gratitude. You then write a lovely thank you note and reciprocate according to your means within a year. If you feel you must bring something, do not bring anything to be served at the meal without the host's express permission beforehand, and don't bring anything the host has to deal with before or during the meal, as it were. Like arranging flowers. Don't bring anything that requires use of the kitchen or rooms where guests are being entertained. If you bring any such things, your attempt to show gratitude is actually getting in the way of the host. If a host says, "just bring yourself", have the social confidence to take the instruction at face value. If the host didn't mean it, that's the host's problem, not yours. Thu Apr 12 19:20:41 -0700 2007 2474221 13819 Karl S 1 2476648 I would NEVER go empty-handed and would consider an empty-handed guest to be suffering from some kind of social disability...One thing I like to take is something nice for the host's next-morning breakfast (maybe a box of Danishes from a good bakery) on the theory that the entire effort of the household has gone into producing the dinner party and the next morning they will like to kick back with a breakfast treat. Be sure and label it "not for the party---this is for tomorrow's breakfast". Thu Apr 12 21:26:22 -0700 2007 2474221 15521 Querencia 2 2476708 Wow - it's been fun to read all these responses to my OP. I have to say,many of them truly reveal where we are as a culture when it comes to gift giving. We're so overloaded with stuff and I suppose the people who post here are mostly fairly well off, that we can be particular about what we like to receive and what not....too much trouble to put flowers in water....no cheap swill, please...etc. I do believe that it's the thought that counts. Some people like to write thank you notes - writing notes to someone you've already personally thanked just seems wierd to me. Well meant, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I've never been a fan of the thank you note. I know this is counterintuitive, but I find them oddly impersonal. I think it's just the formal nature of the thank you note that bugs me. For some strange reason, an email the next day or a phone call just to say how much fun was had I really like. On the practical front, I had a small dinner party last weekend for a couple of friends. One brought a bottle of wine and the other a bottle of wine AND a beautifully wrapped box of Belgian chocolates. I was thrilled. The chocolates came in so handy a few nights later when I had some people over last-minute and was able to serve some elegant chocolates as a little dessert. Thu Apr 12 21:52:57 -0700 2007 2476648 26542 suse 2 2481860 While I still don't understand the expectation of a gift, this idea strikes me as really quite good! Sat Apr 14 21:15:41 -0700 2007 2476648 14479 wayne keyser 2 2484635 I agree - the breakfast treat is a great idea - someone did that for me once and I was thrilled. Mon Apr 16 05:39:08 -0700 2007 2476648 10985 MMRuth 1 2476898 I usu tell people what they can bring if they ask. Since we dont drink wine it's not appreciated. Neither is chocolate. So we save a few small things for guests to bring and everyone feels like they contributed. Fri Apr 13 01:44:39 -0700 2007 2474221 54184 tom porc 2 2480286 I take issue with the expression "it's not appreciated." That's just rude. If you don't drink wine or eat chocolate, you can certainly let your close friends know, but there's nothing wrong with accepting a gift with a gracious smile and a thank you. Sat Apr 14 07:57:23 -0700 2007 2476898 26542 suse 3 2485751 It's not rude, if he means it literally, which I think he does. Literally, he can't appreciate wine if he doesn't drink. It is only rude if he exhibits rudeness in how he thanks (or doesn't thank) the giver. Mon Apr 16 11:21:19 -0700 2007 2480286 10158 susancinsf 2 2481905 TP, Do you ask the guests to bring the "few small things" even if they haven't asked what they can bring? Sat Apr 14 21:55:05 -0700 2007 2476898 49815 troutpoint 3 2482089 Fortunately, all my friends and family ask if we need anything and if they dont I tell them. And at the few times someone did bring wine, choc or liquor I was gracious but the point I was making is if you dont know the host/ess wine and choc are not a safe gift anymore. Would you spend a lot of money on wine/choc/etc if there is a good chance it wont be enjoyed and wasted? Sun Apr 15 01:36:38 -0700 2007 2481905 54184 tom porc 1 2477705 Maybe it's all in how it's asked. When I say "what can we bring" I mean, "Is there anything you'd like to me contribute to the meal?" I do not mean, "do you want me to say Thank You or not?" I agree, running over the Best Friend's for a supper type thing is probably reciprocal enough that a gift isn't needed. But any other invite, I bring something for sure -- usually something small, related to the preferences of the host or their family. It's rarely wine since people's wine tastes differ and I'd rather not give what I drink at home -- but beer, if appropropriate to the meal, or a treat that doesn't have to be dealt with upon my arrival. I can't get into the whole french thing of sending flowers in advance, so I avoid cut flowers too. Since most of my friends have kids, it's usually something consumable for them. There are always all sorts of interesting candies or chocolates that can be given in small quanties as a goodie. Fri Apr 13 09:21:28 -0700 2007 2474221 45908 orangewasabi 1 2477762 People seem to be confused over what is a very simple distinction - the difference between a contribution to the party and a gift. Simple Rule: If the hostess asks you to bring a "dish" or a bottle of wine or whatever, bring it. If the hostess says "don't bring anything but yourself", then absolutely do NOT bring anything to be served at the party. No clever crackers, no prize-winning dish that everyone loves, nothing. Respect your hostess. A hostess gift is a COMPLETELY different thing. It is a gift, it is not to be served unless the hostess chooses to do so. Don't bring anything that strongly implies she serve it (like something hot in a container you want back). The hostess has the responsibility to understand that it is a gift and treat it as such, that is, offer thanks and not be a snot about it. If it's not to your taste, throw it away, regift, or give to charity. Respect your guest. I'm glad I could clarify that for everyone. ;-) Fri Apr 13 09:34:01 -0700 2007 2474221 10471 danna 2 2478663 Wow...excellent reply Danna. I completely agree! Fri Apr 13 13:45:48 -0700 2007 2477762 85865 christineb 2 2480292 Totally agree with you, danna! Sat Apr 14 07:59:12 -0700 2007 2477762 26542 suse 2 2482533 I agree with danna as well, and maybe adding a comment to your thank you gift like "brought you a little something to snack on for tomorrow" (if it's food related) so they know your intentions of them NOT using it for their organized gala. Sun Apr 15 09:29:40 -0700 2007 2477762 49588 lexpatti 2 2491330 right on!! Wed Apr 18 06:08:04 -0700 2007 2477762 78717 pearlD 2 2501310 Right on! For me, it's really simple and I don't agonize over it: when I tell people not to bring anything--I mean it. People who know me and who we have over know that I am not shy. If someone offers, I'll definitely speak up if there's something I have in mind. And, when a host tells me not to bring anything, I don't. Fri Apr 20 19:24:01 -0700 2007 2477762 12045 gloriousfood 1 2477841 wow i love all these replies!!!!! i agree.. i think it depends on your relationship with the people, the type of dinner, etc.... as a hostess, when people ask what to bring, i usually say, "please don't." and then i give an explanation as to why i don't want them to bring anything. so that way they will know that i am serious. most of the time, i plan my meals and everything matches. if it's a quick kind of dinner, then i have no problems telling people what to bring, usually things i don't have time to do.. most of the time dessert. but i entertain so much with my close friends, that it's not even an issue. whether or not it's an informal or formal dinner, i always tell people to bring their APPETITE. for me, hosting is about having a good time and being able to share. the best thing i like is when people enjoy the food that i have specially prepared for them. all my friends and i are on the same page, so there's really nothing for us to bring to each other's place =) plus we're on a budget, so i think even if we got small gifts for each other, we would all be broke, considering the amount of times we all get together... also, u never want wanyone to give more than they can afford... so if someone is having a rough time, i will invite them for dinner for a "pick me up" and NEVER expect them to bring anything.. they have more important things to worry about than a hostess gift... howeever, if i'm going to a dinner that i know is more formal and i won't know people there, then i usually bring a small (like 6 pieces) of nice chocolate. nothing to ever overshadow the meal or decorations, or anything like that. but i think it changes in every situation.... Fri Apr 13 09:54:47 -0700 2007 2474221 89020 kinipela 1 2477960 I agree with the post above that says there is a difference between asking if you can help with the meal and bringing a gift to your host/hostess. I am absolutely incapable of showing up at someone’s door without some sort of gift. If my sister's husband is out of town on business and she asks me come to her home for a quick spaghetti dinner with her and her toddler, I bring a gift. It might not be a bottle of wine or a bunch of flowers but, it will be a gift and it will match her personality as I know it. All that being said I do agree that it is better to send flowers ahead of time than to bring them on the night of the event. Fri Apr 13 10:21:50 -0700 2007 2474221 71053 bonmann 1 2478279 With the exception of dinner in a Muslim home or the home of a recovering alcoholic or a fundamentalist non-drinker of any stripe, I don't think you can really go wrong with a decent bottle of wine. I usually hand it to the host/hostess and say - this is for your larder, so they don't feel compelled to serve it with the meal. The very worst that can happen is that they will re-gift it when they go somewhere else, or open it when cousin Ralph comes over, if they don't really care for wine. Or...cook with it. It's no worse than a giving a box of chocolates to someone on a diet. (Having said that, I will admit that I did show up for dinner at a Muslim home with a bottle of wine once. I didn't know the hosts - I had been staying with some friends who were going there for dinner and I was invited along. They were very gracious about it and said thank you but I'm still annoyed that my friends didn't tell me...). Fri Apr 13 12:08:50 -0700 2007 2474221 12383 Nyleve 2 2478448 Wine is not as safe gift as it may seem - there are more non-wine drinkers than you think. It's not only only Muslims. There are Mormons (chocolate, coffee and tea are out too!), then there is a whole Bible Belt that covers a lot of the US population. Most heartland Americans do not have a taste for wine, so it would be thoughtless to bring wine. A good friend of mine doesn't care much about wine (no religious restraints just never developed taste for it), if I go to her house I would make sure to bring something that I know she'd enjoy. Fri Apr 13 12:54:13 -0700 2007 2478279 12766 welle 3 2479000 I seriously doubt that any of the above posters mean that they would bring wine to someone's house if they knew they didn't like wine, for any reason! But if you do happen to accidentally make that mistake with people you don't know, the worst possible result is that they regift it (ok I guess theoretically you could also offend the host, but if you don't know them and they are *really angry* that you brought a gift they didn't like... well... then who wants to have dinner with them?) Fri Apr 13 15:22:54 -0700 2007 2478448 11485 Adrienne 4 2479540 I gave wine as a gift once to people who not only didn't drink, but who would never, ever, consider giving anyone alcohol or cooking with it. I didn't know them well and assumed it would be a safe gift. They were obviously annoyed, though polite. I have no idea what they did with it. It might still be sitting under their sink. Fri Apr 13 18:50:13 -0700 2007 2479000 76025 mojoeater 5 2480027 If one doesnt know the host/hostess well then wine isnt a safe gift for reasons previously mentioned. When invited out I usu get stressed over what to bring and try to get the host/hostess to let me bring something or get clues at least. mojoeater, sadly I too have wine under my sink ... along with boubon, brandy and benedictine. Sat Apr 14 02:15:55 -0700 2007 2479540 54184 tom porc 6 2480215 Well, obviously we're all going to screw up in the gift department at one time or another. Clearly it is impossible to anticipate all potential situations - the newly reformed drinker, the just-diagnosed diabetic, the suddenly re-born religious fundamentalist. But even so, it would be mean and snarky to let the gifter know that they have really made a horrible mistake. You accept the gift - whatever it is - you smile and thank the person for their thoughtfulness, and then you just dispose of the offering in whatever way you see fit when everyone has gone home. And anyone who cannot bring themselves to do that probably shouldn't be entertaining. Sat Apr 14 07:22:52 -0700 2007 2480027 12383 Nyleve 7 2480240 I agree with this post100%. Sat Apr 14 07:33:30 -0700 2007 2480215 11485 Adrienne 8 2482092 As I said earlier I am thankful but why spend good money on something risky. Why not avoid the risk by doing as Cindy said below and bring a host/ess gift instead? Sun Apr 15 01:43:11 -0700 2007 2480240 54184 tom porc 9 2482896 I agree-- that is often a better idea. Sun Apr 15 11:39:06 -0700 2007 2482092 11485 Adrienne 6 2496789 Tom, if you're morally opposed to the stuff, pour it down the toilet. If you just don't care for it, at least you have it to offer guests, or give it to someone who will enjoy it! Thu Apr 19 13:18:56 -0700 2007 2480027 14222 abowes 7 2501709 I'm afraid they will later ask me how I enjoyed it. Wine gives me headaches so I have to abstain. I dont think I even own any wineglasses. A gift of wine puts me in an awkward position. Sat Apr 21 02:00:52 -0700 2007 2496789 54184 tom porc 8 2501824 Anyone who actually asks you how you enjoyed their gift deserves any answer they get -- testing you on your enjoyment is definitely rude. Sat Apr 21 06:21:26 -0700 2007 2501709 11485 Adrienne 9 2503429 Absolutely. I'm constantly amazed how outspoken people can be. Sun Apr 22 00:44:47 -0700 2007 2501824 54184 tom porc 9 2507081 If I give a gift that wasn't appropriate, I'd like to know, so that I can choose more appropriately in the future. If they ask, tell them - you very much appreciated the thought, but don't drink, so you passed it along to someone who could enjoy it. Mon Apr 23 12:31:49 -0700 2007 2501824 14222 abowes 3 2485071 Those strike me as awfully broad statements. Most heartland Americans don't have a taste for wine? How did you come to that conclusion? And as a denizen of the Bible belt, and member of a family full of Southern Baptist Sunday school teachers and deacons, I'll tell you this: the older generation generally does not drink much wine (preferring sweet fruit wines if they did), but would not be offended by it as a gift. The younger generation drinks. Although there is a small percentage who remain vehemently opposed to alchohol, I think you would be very unlucky to accidentaly bring wine to a Southerner who was actually offended by it. Mon Apr 16 08:40:40 -0700 2007 2478448 10471 danna 2 2479685 When I first my my husband, we went to friends of his parents for a Jewish holiday dinner. I had never met the hosts before, but certainly I didn't want to show up with nothing. So I brought a box of chocolates. They accepted the gift and were gracious, but at some point I learned that they kept kosher in their home. They couldn't eat the chocolates (I'm not even sure what makes chocolate kosher or non-kosher), not that I expected them to open them at that time anyway. I felt like an idiot at the end of the night, but I still remind myself 8 years later that it's the thought that counts. Fri Apr 13 20:16:16 -0700 2007 2478279 10205 valerie 1 2479894 I always bring a gift. Fri Apr 13 22:33:16 -0700 2007 2474221 56406 Bite Me 1 2479925 Every person and every situation is diifferent. Some cultures require it even when the host/hostess declines, others you take at face value. I personally always bring something - usually something nice to drink as long as most of the people there drink - but whether it actually gets opened or not is not my concern. I leave it up to just about anyone else as I feel just lucky enough to have been in someone's good thoughts. If the majority don't drink - we have some friends who are Mormon - then it's usually something like a very nice box or bag of macarons or cookies from one of the local patisseries. "Gifts" like wine, beer, liquor, cookies and macarons aren't like bringing a five-gallon tub of ice cream that is going to melt if it doesn't get tossed into a commercial-sized deep freeze. They have at least a couple of days of shelf life, meaning there's no pressure on the host during this wild time of setting up and providing the entertaining. They could slip these in with the meal, or they can opt to have it some time later... To each his own... Fri Apr 13 22:53:47 -0700 2007 2474221 64003 bulavinaka 2 2480238 I don't think any of these answers are off base. It may be me, but I don't stress over bringing something or not. Most times, I bring a bottle of wine (for the hostess' stash). At a very casual dinner with very close friends, I have been known not to bring anything. My point is, I really don't think I would worry about dinner party "correctness", unless I was going to the White House, or dinner with HRM. Sat Apr 14 07:32:38 -0700 2007 2479925 15691 mcel215 3 2480256 I think it is funny that the level of concern about correctness appears to rise in proportion to how little you know the person. Don't our best friends deserve the best treatment and manners? Sat Apr 14 07:41:26 -0700 2007 2480238 45437 nummanumma 4 2480409 I don't think best treatment is the same thing as best manners. But I think that we're focusing on formal situations because if it's a close friend, you sortof ought to know what they really want you to bring or how they want you to help, if they do. Sat Apr 14 08:42:56 -0700 2007 2480256 11485 Adrienne 4 2482207 I think there is ONE standard and that best treatment and manners are for everyone who opens their homes to the Jfoods as guests. Whether it is my monthly poker game or a new business colleague who just moved to the area and is hosting a dinner for a few people, good manners are good manners, pretty basic. As one gets more comfortable and knows the host the gift becomes more personal and targeted. For example, people know he Jfoods do not drink, yet some will bring wine knowing that a good red will be turned into a beautiful braising liquid over the next few weeks. If, by chance, the wine they bring is something that would fit the meal, the corkscrew comes out and it is served. Most people who know the Jfoods have one items in the front of their minds, CHOCOLATE. And I can not remember the last time something shocolate was not shared. Unlike wine, chocolate goes with everything. But anything they bring is perfect because it is not who or what I invited to share some good times. Sun Apr 15 06:24:42 -0700 2007 2480256 11290 jfood 3 2480320 And you don't bring hostess gifts to the White House or Buckingham Palace. Sat Apr 14 08:12:50 -0700 2007 2480238 13819 Karl S 4 2480358 Well, thanks Karl. I doubt I will ever have to "worry" then. ;). Sat Apr 14 08:30:04 -0700 2007 2480320 15691 mcel215 5 2480541 You might put Karl's advice in your memory bank, mce215. There's many situations where a gift is not appropriate. Let's hope that you become successful and get invited to some nice dinners. For many corporate and international level things, bringing a gift isn't the thing to do. You might send flowers ahead depending on the culture. Or send nothing at all. Sometimes you could find yourself in another country, working or on vacation, and be invited to a diplomatic event - entirely different set of rules! And it's not far fetched. Peace Corps workers and ordinary Americans are often included in those. Don't assume that what you do for your buddy's barbeque is the same rule that applies in Timbuktu. Let's hope you lead a rich enough life that you get many chances to "worry." Sat Apr 14 09:50:45 -0700 2007 2480358 32444 MakingSense 6 2480632 Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! Persuasion through diplomacy! Can we all get along? I need a drink - someone crack open a bottle of that Yellowtail that Andytee was talking about... Sat Apr 14 10:41:32 -0700 2007 2480541 64003 bulavinaka 6 2481015 At my age, I have most of the knowledge and schooling that would make myself and my family proud of me, in any cultural setting! And I never assume anything. I have lead a very rich life, and have gotten beyond most of worrying what people will think. My dinner parties now, mostly consist of dear friends and loved ones, who know that the company of friends or family, by far outweighs the difference if someone does or does not bring a gift to a dinner party, just to be politically correct. And living in Boston, is very far from Timbuktu. I hope that one day, your success in life is not dependent on judging people too harshly. And I always like Karl's advice : ). Have a good day. Sat Apr 14 13:53:16 -0700 2007 2480541 15691 mcel215 7 2481287 The world is too complex for me to assume that I can cope with all cultural settings. Like you, I'm on solid ground with family and friends but there are times that I have to deal with cultures and religions that I'm not familiar with and I ask for help. Not out of "political correctness," but out of respect for my hosts. Not because I "worry what people will think," but because there are some taboos that are truly offensive in other cultures and religions. Sometimes you don't bring a gift. Sometimes you can bring a very wrong, even insulting gift. As you say, "never assume anything" if you aren't sure. Ask somebody, not necessarily the host. I judge my success by being willing to learn. If you consider this an unnecessary exercise, judge me as harshly as you please. Sat Apr 14 16:09:04 -0700 2007 2481015 32444 MakingSense 8 2482118 I was not judging you at all, I was replying to your post. And I wish you well in your success. Sun Apr 15 03:41:39 -0700 2007 2481287 15691 mcel215 4 2480584 You dont???? NOW you tell me! Sat Apr 14 10:15:20 -0700 2007 2480320 12383 Nyleve 1 2480341 I never go empty-handed; I think a little "hostess gift" is always in order. A potted plant, some pretty cocktail napkins in a nice basket, a box of imported chocolates are just a few things that are enjoyed and appreciated. "Just bring yourself" to me means that the host/hostess is fine handling all of the dinner details. A little house gift is a token of appreciation for the invitation. Sat Apr 14 08:22:53 -0700 2007 2474221 49600 CindyJ 2 2480400 Your mom did well... high five! Sat Apr 14 08:41:27 -0700 2007 2480341 64003 bulavinaka 1 2487526 Just for the record, not everyone hates flowers as a gift. I like it when my guests bring pretty flowers, and don't mind handing the reins over to my husband for a few minutes while I arrange them. I asked a few friends about this and they agreed. I had never heard that people hate getting flowers before I read it on this board, so it may be a regional, cultural or maybe a social class thing. Mon Apr 16 21:24:13 -0700 2007 2474221 16011 oolah 2 2487576 When we take flowers, the gift includes my taking care and arranging them. As kids we learned Japanese flower arrangement--even us boys. Mon Apr 16 21:50:19 -0700 2007 2487526 36661 Sam Fujisaka 3 2494884 Sam Fujisaka = STYLE. What a great gesture. Wed Apr 18 22:40:41 -0700 2007 2487576 64003 bulavinaka 4 2497439 Thank you. Thu Apr 19 16:19:47 -0700 2007 2494884 36661 Sam Fujisaka 2 2488064 It's not the flowers themselves - I love flowers, really I do. And sometimes, if the dinner is casual and I'm not juggling ten things at once and the kitchen isn't a total madhouse, I have no problem stopping what I'm doing and putting them in a vase. But, for example, a couple of weeks ago two people showed up at my Passover seder with bunches of flowers. They were beautiful. But I was entertaining 25 people that night and the kitchen was wall-to-wall chaos and no one offered to take care of the flowers for me. I would have felt mean to ask the person who gave them to go find a vase and deal with the flowers. But, at the same time, I would very much have appreciated either the offer or having the flowers arrive already vased. As it was, I smiled and took the time to cut them down and put them in water. No one - except you Chowhounds - knew that I was frantic. However this is a lesson learned for me. Next time I have a big to-do, I'll keep a couple of vases close at hand and remind my husband that this is his job. On the other hand...chocolate requires no arranging. Tue Apr 17 07:26:49 -0700 2007 2487526 12383 Nyleve 3 2488264 Nyleve, we keep a couple of big glass vases - tall and wide - close at hand under the sink in the powder room. When last minute bouquets arrive, we accept them, usually saying something like: "Oh! These are so beautiful! I'm going to get them into water right away and wait to arrange them until after dinner when I have time to really do them justice. I know that I'm going to enjoy these so much!" I keep them out, usually near where all the action is, so people don't feel like I'm hiding them. I just don't take time to cut and arrange them. Tue Apr 17 08:34:14 -0700 2007 2488064 32444 MakingSense 3 2488284 Sorry, didn't mean to imply that people didn't *like* flowers. I posted because I often bring flowers to friends houses (or a bottle of wine) and I had a growing sense of horror as I read this thread that all this time I had been causing lots of grief with my gifts. But then I remembered that a lot of people bring ME flowers when I entertain, and I have never minded it, and a few of my friends felt the same way when I asked them in a (very unscientific) poll. Anyway, point is, flowers can be a nice gift, *depending on your host* -- don't automatically rule them out. Personally, I'd much prefer them to chocolate, since I don't eat a lot of sweets, or knick knacks, since I have a small apartment without room for much clutter. Tue Apr 17 08:38:13 -0700 2007 2488064 16011 oolah 2 2490415 I don't hate flowers at all, but the giver may want to keep in mind whether the hostess is someone who is prepared to receive them in the middle of a dinner party. I recently had a dinner party at my house, and one of my colleagues from work arrived with an absolutely beautiful bouquet of flowers. It was really simply stunning, and something that he had obviously taken a lot of time to put together. Unfortunately, I am not one to keep fresh flowers and none of my friends had (so far) given me flowers for my apartment (I had moved relatively recently), so I had no vase at hand. I ended up having to dump out my ceramic kitchen utensil holder, and duct taping the flowers into it with some water, swearing "No, I saw this on the Food Network! It'll work!" as my friends watched somewhat incredulously. It ended up being fine and the flowers were really gorgeous (and much appreciated), but yeah... not everyone is prepared for flowers. Tue Apr 17 18:06:52 -0700 2007 2487526 26708 sidwich 1 2488374 I think that if I show up empty handed, even after being told to do so, I should write a thank you and post it the next day, or send flowers. I wouldn't do this with close friends, but with people with whom I'm less acquainted. Having dinner at friends' houses, and having been told I shouldn't bring anything, I sometimes do bring something. More often than not, it's not intended for dinner, but for them to enjoy the next morning: coffee beans, something I baked, or fresh fruit that's particularly delish. I find those gifts much appreciated, because people are often tired the morning after a dinner party. But, you really do have to know people for this--whether they eat breakfast, if they're coffee drinkers, etc. Another option is hard liquor for their bar, especially if it's something harder to find, but you have to know people pretty well for that. Honestly, I'm not attending or throwing many dinner parties these days! I moved six years ago, and it's very hard to meet new people once you're in your thirties, or rather to meet people who are looking for new friends at this age. Tue Apr 17 09:03:34 -0700 2007 2474221 24126 amyzan 1 2488448 I was taught to bring host(ess) gifts when invited for dinner, altho admittedly I sometimes forget. When I'm the host, I really don't want my guests to feel obligated, so if they ask if they can bring anything, I will sometimes tell them, "Just bring a joke to share." My brother, who likes to suss out interesting microbrews, once brought a six-pack of Busch. He gave it to me and said, "Here...here's the joke." Tue Apr 17 09:21:03 -0700 2007 2474221 13700 ricepad 1 2490076 I have always brought Meyer lemons from my tree when they are in season. Across all cultures people love this and can use them for cooking, tea, sanitizing the disposal etc. Always appreciative and from the heart, not generic. General rule of thumb for a hostess gift... bring something you would like. Love that people bring ice... seems to be what I always need. Tue Apr 17 16:14:58 -0700 2007 2474221 76226 Oh Robin 2 2490421 Fantastic idea! Lemons are a great gift. They don't spoil easy, great for cocktails or cooking. I wish I was in lemon-country Tue Apr 17 18:09:08 -0700 2007 2490076 88683 stellamystar 2 2492744 Oh Robin, are the lemons in season now? If so, when would you like to come over for dinner? Wed Apr 18 12:03:13 -0700 2007 2490076 68210 andytee 3 2496827 They are and they're super sweet and delish! It's actually my parent's tree in the house I grew up in. My whole life I wondered why lemons from the store weren't like ours. Only about five years ago discovered it was a Meyer. The best lemonade and lemon cake and even good eaten like an orange. Thu Apr 19 13:32:01 -0700 2007 2492744 76226 Oh Robin 1 2490707 When guests ask what they can bring, I always say, yourself ready to be pampered. That said, I assume they will bring wine. I believe too if the guest brings flowers, the etiquette is that they will cut and vase them for the hostess. I loves my wine but I love waking up the next morning to a beautiful vase of cut flowers (I am lucky as the guests who do bring me flowers are considerate to the style of my home-modern- and bring simple lilies or tropicals). Once a couple brought a pastry shop dessert. It did not go with my theme, but I served it anyway, in place of the more simple dessert I was planning to serve (greek yogurt and spoon sweets). I think it's best to appreciate those we honor and lose the ego. My self I always bring wine, and sometimes a small vase of simple flowers. The hostess can decide to put it on their bedside table or an end table. The flowers shouldn't be brought as a centerpiece. Knowing the wine will likely be consumed that evening, or some other evening, the flowers are a gift for the host/ess to enjoy the next day afterall the hard work. Tue Apr 17 19:59:53 -0700 2007 2474221 62675 E.Kolliopoulos 1 2491923 A great idea is to bring some fresh fruit in a unique bowl or vase. The host/hostess can keep the container for use in the future, and the guests can have some fresh fruit after dinner instead of filling up on more fattening desserts. I like to bring fruits like mangos, kiwi, or something unique that's in season. One time I brought some pluots (plum/apricot) for my boss. She never had one before, and they're one of her favorite fruits now. Wed Apr 18 08:59:39 -0700 2007 2474221 92369 Veggie_Girl 2 2492115 My friend once brought me a pineapple. I didn't serve it, since it was too much work to cut it plus everyone was gaga over the dessert I served, but I did appreciate it - pineapple is one of the fruits that I love but don't buy too often because good ones are rare and I get lazy over a thought of cutting and cleaning it. Wed Apr 18 09:49:39 -0700 2007 2491923 12766 welle 3 2492486 Ah the traditional symbol of hospitality! My Indonesian and Japanese friends are always so considerate. They bring a lovely basket of fresh fruit, and I enjoy it all week! Wed Apr 18 11:11:30 -0700 2007 2492115 50431 chef chicklet 2 2492786 This really is a great suggestion. One of my friends knows that I love fresh fruit, but I rarely get up early enough on Sundays to make it to our local farmers market (it's my only day to sleep in). He brought a beautiful basket of strawberries from the market to my last party, and it was absolutely marvelous. Wed Apr 18 12:13:43 -0700 2007 2491923 26708 sidwich 3 2495092 Excellent ideas here. Thu Apr 19 04:29:33 -0700 2007 2492786 54184 tom porc 1 2496811 i agree, I like to bring bottle of wine or flowers because you can always use a bottle of wine and flowers always looks great anywhere. Thu Apr 19 13:26:52 -0700 2007 2474221 79605 risiebisi 1 2500672 I always keep a few tins of vahlrona chocolate for hostess gifts. I wrap them up very simply with an elegant bow and give it to the hostess wrapped. I tell her that it's a treat for her so she knows that she won't have to serve it during the party Fri Apr 20 14:43:49 -0700 2007 2474221 46140 ctl98 1 2503165 If my host/hostess said "nothing," I will not bring anything. That's because when I say "nothing" to my guests, I mean nothing. But not everyone is like that, so there's probably some people who have said "nothing" and is still mad at me for not bringing anything! Sat Apr 21 20:40:05 -0700 2007 2474221 93291 boltnut55