visiting Berkeley soon, need reality check on choices
We're making one of our regular biannual visits to Berkeley next week, for ten days. I've been combing the board, but going through six months' worth of posts is overwhelming, and I may have missed something. My notes include, in no particular order, Aziza, Yusan Sushi, Adagia, Jerusalem, Sea Salt, Caribbean Cove, Casa Latina, Tamarindo, Sea Mi, The Patio, Pizzaiolo. Also Fatted Calf, Gregoire, Lola's, and Blue Bottle Coffee. I haven't even had time to go through the Chron, SFBG, and SF Weekly back issues yet.
Any other suggestions? Should I scratch any of these? I'm obviously not going to get to all of them, especially considering the old favourites my kids will demand to visit; it'll depend on circumstance. Are there can't-misses here?
What looks good at Berkeley Bowl right now, or at the Berkeley Farmer's Market?
Many thanks. --PR
Prabhakar Ragde
Aug 12, 2005 10:07PM
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Berkeley Bowl has a ton of tomatoes right now - even this week's NYTimes has an article with a great photo of the tomato section. And you might want to combine a Bowl visit with a Thai Temple brunch on Sunday morning.....the Temple brunch is a very interesting experience with solid food. Gregoire also deserves a visit. Vik's Chaat. Aziza in SF is very special....Cafe Bakery on 1345 Noriega St. SF for the best baked pork buns.....
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I would add Bendean to the list. It's on Solano Ave next to Sushi Sho and has a great thirteen dollar special between 5 and 6 (three courses, but no choices)
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Bendean was the major disappointment of our March trip. Only the pork rojo was worthwhile; everything else was quite ho-hum, with the dessert being quite substandard (hint: in a crisp, it's not the apples that are supposed to be crisp). I understand the appeal of the place, and the special is a good deal, but it's way down on my list for a repeat visit. --PR
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Fantastic spots you may have overlooked:
Cheeseboard on Shattuck can't be missed. The cheese/bread shop will be closed August 15-22. The pizza shop will stay open.
Sketch Ice Cream on sixth street makes the best ice cream I've ever had in my life. Definitely worth a try.
Nellie's in Oakland does incredible Soul Food and is the board fave for fried chicken. Friendly atmosphere, prices are reasonable.
Sushi Sho does my favorite local sushi. Many people on this board think it's the best in the East Bay.
La Farine does wonderful croissants and morning buns and an absurdly good fruit tart.
Absolute musts from your list:
Gregoire is my favorite place to eat, don't miss it.
Pizzaiolo and Aziza are both outstanding.
Skip the Berkeley Bowl headache and go to the Berkeley Farmer's Market instead, the produce is far superior. Here's a thread to help guide you through the market. This time of year you want dry farm tomatoes and peaches.
http://www.chowhound.com/california/b...
I was unimpressed with Lola's. There's definitely some better places on your list. Same goes for The Patio (the burger at Cafe Rouge is much better). They're both a great value if you're looking for cheap eats one night, but if price is not an issue I'd nix them.
references:
cheeseboard.coop
lafarine.com
gregoirerestaurant.com
caferouge.net
aziza-sf.com
pizzaiolo.us
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I visited Sketch shortly after it opened, last summer. It's the most authentic gelato I know of in North America, though the texture was a trifle soft (it was melting by the time I got it paid for). I spent much of July in Italy, so the thought of paying twice as much as I did there will only appeal if I get nostalgic while editing my photos.
I also visited Sushi Sho about a year and a half ago, sat at the bar. It was good, but it didn't seem outstanding. Hamako in SF, five years ago, is my point of reference. Perhaps becoming a regular would make a difference. I did like the friendly and calm atmosphere. --PR
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I too, found Berkeley Bowl a bit of a let down. Yes, there are a lot of exotic items you might not see elsewhere. No, it's not the organic food bargain heaven that my friends made it out to be. Meaning, for me, that a good farmers' market is sometimes more interesting, and almost always cheaper.
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The variety of produce at Berkeley Bowl is amazing. On the other hand, even though it's a few blocks from our house and our main supermarket, we don't buy much produce there, since the quality's so much higher at the Berkeley farmers market.
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I would skip Seat Salt. We went there a couple of days ago and got the oyster po' boy and fish and chips. Very disappointing. They were both over-fried and the oysters were not that fresh. The portions were also quite tiny for the prices they charged.
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May have been a bad night at Sea Salt. My Po' Boy was fresh and presented just right. I appreciate the smaller portions myself. I think this is just a matter of opinion.
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assuming that you live in waterloo, ontario (based on your email address) you should probably give the Caribbean Cove a miss because you can get better and cheaper jamaican food near you in toronto, mississauga or maybe even hamilton.
so based on your proximity to TO and its myriad of cuisine, i can suggest/recommend places (that have not so far been recommended) that is more "californian":
the cheeseboard - vegetarian pizza, and you can sit in the median of shattuck ave and drink your brown-bagged wine/beer
Pie in the Sky - near the Downtown Berkeley BART station. It's not NY quite pizza, not quite California pizza, not quite chicago pizza, but it's good. it definitely beats Pizza Pizza.
Cha-Ya - on shattuck/cedar for vegetarian japanese food
the patio - dwight e/of telegraph - rotating selection of california beers on tap plus interesting sandwiches
enjoy!
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This is the first I've heard of Pie in the Sky. "It's not NY quite pizza, not quite California pizza, not quite Chicago pizza": those are three fairly different things. What *is* it like?
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Found a Daily Cal review--the owner says "Jersey Shore variant of New York style," and the reviewer rates it above Arinell and below Gioia.
Link: http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?i...
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Retrieved from San Francisco Bay Area ChowNews issue #186 - here's the thread on Pie in the Sky -
http://chowhound.com/california/boards/sanfrancisco/messages/137766.html
Link: http://chowhound.safeshopper.com/23/c...
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Thanks. Obviously I didn't read the board carefully enough when I came back from vacation!
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I've found Pie in the Sky to be thicker and crustier than NY pies, but with more toppings and sauce. I wouldn't call it "Californian" because it generally comes with relatively normal toppings. i'm not sure if my classification helps, but i really enjoy the pizza.
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I'd say it falls into the category that the lamented Stephan Stanley described as "North Beach" pizza--very traditional, not very different from East Coast, and generally without the zippy toppings that call up the "California" label. (Arugula, abalone, candied fruit, etc.)
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I visit twice a year, and have done so since finishing my schooling there in '86, so I know about the Cheeseboard (for bakery/pizza; I've been a bit disappointed in the cheese selection and knowledge of the workers lately), the evolution of Vik (a must-visit for us), the new La Farine location (though I think their morning bun is overrated), and the Thai Temple (I agree with Melanie that the steam table food is now just ordinary, but I'll still go for the som tam and the sticky rice with mangoes).
The mob scene within and without at Berkeley Bowl can be frustrating, but we do need some supplies that aren't at the Farmer's Market, and I like to look at some exotic produce not grown in the immediate vicinity. I appreciate the Farmer's Market link. Any recommendations on tomato varieties? Fifty strange names can be really intimidating, as can their quite varied appearance.
Caribbean Cove and the Patio aren't destinations; I like to spend time at Amoeba, Cody's, and Moe's, and lunch on Southside is usually problematic. On our last visit we did have some nice dinners at the pan-Asian places on Telegraph just south of Dwight.
I actually spend more time in Berkeley than I do in Toronto.
Thanks, all. I'll, of course, pick up a copy of the Chowhound guide on arrival. --PR
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Why wait? You can order the CH Guide - SF Bay Area on line through Amazon.com!
Cece
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Have you been to Dopo?
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Yes, I've been to Dopo, and liked it a lot, which is partly why Pizzaiolo beckons. --PR
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We had delicious pizza and a very good salad at Pizzaiola about a month ago. The service was very slow. I figured they were still getting their act together.
I recommended it to some friends from out of town the other night. They loved the food but said that they had to wait a very long time for their food.
I'm really glad you're back. Loved the reiviews from last trip!
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For tomato varieties - stick to the Dry Farmed tomatoes at Quetzal and Dirty Girl farms. They're not as pretty as the heirlooms, but you'll be suprised by the concentration of flavors. Heirlooms carry me through July until the Dry Farmed comes in, but once the Dry Farmed are here I don't so much as glance at the heirlooms.
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While I like it, the morning bun at La Farine is not one of those things I go back there for.
Just wanted to make sure you were aware that Lola's is strictly takeout with a dinner menu that is really just roast chicken. There are four other dishes(which I've yet to try), but the require an oven to finish. I haven't tried Lola's pizza yet.
Although I've been eating my Lola's lunch at Solano Cellars across the street, Solano has just been sold, so I don't know how long that happy little relationship will last. Even so, if you have children, Solona Cellars doesn't allow anyone under 21 in the tasting room.
The chicken and roast potatoes are just simply but perfectly done. So if you are looking for anything outside of that ... however, it is the best roast chicken I've found so far in the East Bay.
If you don't have plates and silverware to deal with the roast chicken, I liked the strombolli better than the one calzone I tried, but that had to do with some fresh tomatoes that made the bottom calzone crust soggy. Everytime I'm in there I get tempted by those lovely calzones. For lunch, Lola's usually has a sandwich. The menu is not extensive.
Their baked goods are outstanding. For items where there is a one to one comparison with La Farine (like cookies), Lola's far outshines La Farine. But Lola's is the most American of all the local bakeries. So if you are looking for great pie or crisps, no one does it better.
Gregoire is take-out, of sorts. There are two outside picnic tables and three counter seats. Which is good, because a lot of Gregoire's food really doesn't travel as well as a takeout place should. Salads should be eaten ASAP or they wilt. However, the food is great and the potato puffs should be sampled,also on site. The desserts are good, but if they don't mind you eating your dessert from Lola's there, you'd really have something. That is said sort of tounge in cheek, I have the feeling Gregoire would mind very much.
It is just fun though eating at Gregoire with a real neighborhood feel and watching the action in the tiny kitchen, not to mention great food.
As far as Casa Latina, I've only had one taco there so I can't say much about the food. However, I do have to rave about the panadria, so if that's what you are going for, excellent choice. There is a small table in back that would hold a family. The other tables are mainly for two people.
I haven't tried Southern Cafe, but it gets pretty high marks and compares favorably to Nellie's which I have eaten at and has really the best fried chicken I've had in a while and great sweet potato pie.
Hope you have a great trip. Have you hit Ferry Plaza on Saturday morning on any of your visits yet?
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Thanks, rw. I've read all the Lola postings on this board, and it is the roast chicken I'm going for -- roast chicken is harder than many think, and a good one is something special. That, and the baking. I don't get takeout pizza, period. I eat it on site or make my own. I'm staying in NE Berkeley, so I could just charge up the hill after picking up food at Lola's or Gregoire's. (Okay, I have to admit that I get the Cheeseboard light bake, but I charge up the hill and pop it in the oven straightaway. I really hope they've finished the construction on Spruce.) However, I think we'll try to have an early lunch at Gregoire's and eat while hanging around there, though I may have to put extra water in the trunk to soak down the younger child afterwards; she can be clumsy.
I went to the Ferry Plaza Market two years ago -- my younger one still mentions smoked onions from Tierra at every opportunity, and I really regret not buying their chipotle -- and made some classist remarks on this board that got me into a bit of hot water. It was a bit over the top for me, particularly the stuff inside the building. The Berkeley Farmer's Market is almost too over the top for me. Fruitvale is more my style. Then again, I took the kids to Borough Market in London a couple of weeks ago, and they considered it a highlight of the trip, so perhaps I am just being hypocritical. --PR
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Remember your timing with Lola's chickens. Place your order fairly early, and don't expect to pick up before 4 PM at the earliest. Worth it, though.
The old owners are still in place at Solano Cellars, as of Sunday. They wondered where's the lady who comes in and has a picnic. Told 'em Lola's is closed for vacation.
Oh, right, Lola's is closed for vacation. Possibly through the 22nd. rw, do you know?
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Thank's for that Lola's tip, but the diet finally kicked in so I'm avoiding restaurants for a while.
Solano Cellars has to post a 30 day notice of the pending sale before owners change. The ownership change goes into effect in September.
Might stop by Vintage Berkeley (the new owners) and try that wine tasting and see if I can get info. I would really miss that tasting bar at Solanao. Hope they are planning to keep it. Wine is still on the diet. Stay away from the El Cerrito's Trader Joes and that wine Melanie mentioned ... at least until I can try to snag a bottle tonight.
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El Cerrito Trader Joes had it at 2:00.
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The Vintage Berkeley guys are keeping Solano Cellars' wine bar and will likely improve it in every regard.
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Once again, the other evening, we had an excellent dinner at Oliveto. I know it's been here for ages, I think it just keeps getting better. When you compare the cost of their pasta (we had the upstairs pasta, downstairs) to Pizzaiolo, it's about the same, but the quality is far superior (and I like Pizzaiolo as a restaurant).
Just don't forget the restaurants that have been around awhile...
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Heirloom tomatoes are a passion of mine and I grow over 100 varieties each year. Not knowing what 50 they offer it's difficult to make suggestions. There are 14,000 different tomatoes!
Always excellent:
Aunt Gertie's Gold
Paul Robeson-gorgeous and best of the "black"
Brandywine -pinkish w/old time tomatoey flavour
Black Brandywine
White Wonder (has a pink blossom end blush)
Green Zebra is fun-green, stripped tart
Marianna's Peace-delish red
Cherokee Purple
Kellogg's Breakfast-yummy orangey coloured
I could go on and on, but asdk to taste them!
Also for great photographs and descriptions:
www.tomatofest.com
I help with the Carmel Tomato Fest each year and taste over 400 varieties. LOL
Mary-Anne
Alamo
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I recently had a my first, and rather disappointing, dinner at Aziza...most of the dishes we ordered were oversalted, particularly the guinea hen; the corn soup that someone else raved about (a special) was only ok, in my opinion; and service timing was inconsistent...
However, it was one of those days when I was not in a very good mood, it was a Sunday night and we had overeaten and drunk too much all weekend, and we had just been at a party with lots of Middle Eastern and north African spreads, so we skipped them at Aziza. In other words, I wasn't sure if it was me or the restaurant that was 'off'that night and thus I've decided it will take at least one more try before I disagree with the consensus that it is wonderful...
I wasn't going to post about that one experience, but I did notice that it was one of the few SF places on your list, and it is way out in the avenues..so, as I have always enjoyed your refreshingly thoughtful posts, I had to mention that I *might* be a lone dissenter and thus do hope that you will post on your experiences at Aziza in particular.
If you want to add any other SF places to your list, you might want to think about Canteen....Looking forward also to your take on Tamarindo...and all the others!
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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Thanks, Susan -- I'll be careful and keep my eyes open. I'm getting less willing to battle SF traffic and parking (which makes me hesitant about places like Canteen), but one of the things we like to do is hit Green Apple Books, so "out in the avenues" is actually an advantage. --PR
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I certainly can understand that: seems like hubby is always a little more willing to try new restaurants than usual when they are out in the aves, especially for a weekend lunch, and then when we get there, he says, 'imagine that: we are right near Green Apple' as if I didn't realize that was the carrot in the first place...:-)
by the way, Aziza has valet parking if you give up circuling in the area, but it is $8! We thought that was too much, but maybe it isn't, as we ended up paying it after fifteen minutes of cruising...didn't help my mood any, I must admit...otoh, we were seated promptly without a reservation (Sunday night, sevenish)...
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Parking in that neighborhood is surprisingly difficult. I also had a mediocre experience at Aziza a couple of weeks ago. They really screwed up our wine by insisting several times that the white wine was not at room temperature when it clearly was and then later admitting that several of their whites had not been chilled. Our server should have never served the wine in the first place and then made things worse by trying to cover up the mistake. Drinking your first glass of wine after the entrees are served is not ok IMO. She seemed generally knowledgeable about the wine and the menu, so I hope it was just a one time thing.
Also, I have to say that the things that were great were really great. All of the appetizers, especially the well reported spreads, were excellent, but overall I felt the sauces on our entrees were very sweet and too heavy. This was especially true of the lamb chops, which were swimming in a very syrupy sauce. I had the rabbit and that was actually quite good as was the squab.
I still really like the place and hope our substandard service was an exception. I can see why people like it so much because the dishes that they do well are quite special. My problem is that the other dishes arent all that great.
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If you haven't been, you might make El Huarache Azteca (great sopes, gorditas, huaraches, fresh-masa quesadillas) a higher priorty than Tamarindo.
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That's a good idea, thanks. We did a Fruitvale run last summer, to La Torta Loca and El Ojo de Agua, but I haven't actually had a sit-down meal in the area. Tamarindo appealed because the person I'm visiting works near Oakland City Center, but we can just as well pick him up and head down to International. Reviews of Tamarindo on Chowhound are definitely mixed. --PR
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Hi,
Eight of us had an early dinner at Adagia on Saturday. I highly recommend this place. All the dishes I've tried were very delicious and the prices are quite reasonable for the quality (nothing was over $18). My lamb shank entree was melt-in-mouth flavorful and somehow it seems lighter than the usual. I think the liberal use of lemon zest (or gremolata?) totally lightened up the dish. I also tried the gorgonzola pizette, the heirloom tomato salad and the prosciutto wrapped monk fish. The heirloom salad was one of the best I've ever had. A lot of places do this dish but somehow I really think this is one of the better attempts. Service was ok, kind of slow at first but picked up after about 20 min. I also like the setting--very Hogwartish.
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If you're going back and forth from downtown to the hills via Spruce (as of yesterday, the road work's all done except the striping), you might want to know that Vintage Berkeley does wine tastings Monday through Friday from 4 to 7pm.
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Thanks -- I stumbled across Vintage Berkeley on the last day of our March trip, picking up coffee at Peet's to take home, and had about thirty seconds to look it over. Nice concept; must return. They shouldn't bother with the striping on Spruce; if you stick to the lanes, you can only go about 10mph. --PR
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