San Tung substitute?

[The Librarian]

Life is not fair. I just discovered San Tung (thanks CHers) and now they're closed until sometime in April. Argggggh! Is there another restaurant somewhere in the Richmond that comes close? Please help this desperate CH Librarian.

[a_and_w]

Any further suggestions for Korean-Chinese in SF besides San Tung? So Restaurant has closed, and King Sing appears to be under new ownership.

[Melanie Wong]

Check recent report for Dong Baek.

[a_and_w]

Thanks for the tip, Melanie. The Tenderloin is a little edgy for my mom, but we may try takeout from there at some point. I take it the they changed hands fairly recently? The menupages menu still shows only Korean food. Anyway, we ended up just hitting San Tung, which was solid as usual.

[Melanie Wong]

The new owners at Dong Baek have only been there a few months so Menupages is out of date. That block of the Tenderloin is less gritty than some and I wouldn't hesitate to take my own mother there, especially at lunch time.

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San Tung Chinese Restaurant
1031 Irving St, San Francisco, CA 94122

Dong Baek Restaurant
631 O'Farrell St, San Francisco, CA 94109

[roster]

Junesix above mentioned San Wang in Japantown to no comment.

They are San Tung's able foe for many Korean/Chinese dishes. I think the JaJang Myun here is pretty good when compared to the old school Namdemoon market version we used to take the train an hour for in Seoul...
Did I miss the thumbs down memo from the hounds on San Wang?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/san-wang-rest...

[a_and_w]

Completely missed that -- thanks for the reminder!

[Melanie Wong]

It's been years since my last visit there. We had a fun chowdown dinner at San Wang many moons ago.

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San Wang Restaurant
1682 Post St, San Francisco, CA 94115

[srr]

I drove by today and it looked like they were open. Am I mistaken?

[honu]

They're open now. I passed by last weekend (had lunch at Yummy Yummy) and ordered dry fried chicken for takeout.

[The Librarian]

Yes! Thanks for letting me know it's open. I'll be going soon!

[lesliey]

Seems that the San Tung folks may have opened a place in the Richmond at 6th and Balboa called King Sing.... the dry fried chicken tastes the same to us!

[theSauce]

It could be the same owner as the King Sing in Albany. They are Sang Tunese as well.

[junesix]

The not well-known San Wang has some similar dishes. I've noticed that their menu is similar to San Tung's, down to the typeface style. It's located in the Japantown area.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/T2ZKNVus4b1r6...

[nianfong]

san tung is passable chinese food... for good chinese food, go to spices.

[intomeat]

the chef's knife work is very weak... not unlike a lazy teenager.

[a_and_w]

I agree that ordinary Chinese at San Tung is good, not great, though I do love the way they put zucchini in the kung pao chicken. But they do excellent renditions of Korean-Chinese classics like tan soo yuk and dry fried chicken.

[nianfong]

kung pao chicken has no zucchini in it. no bell peppers. no carrots. none of that shite.

san tung's za jiang mian is strange. the sauce is right, but because of all the seafood and stuff they put in, the texture is all wrong, and it doesn't mix well with the noodles.

and the noodles themselves need more gluten. as do the dumpling skins.

[a_and_w]

Hmmm... I've eaten the kung pao at San Tung many, many times, and I could swear it always comes with zucchini. Also, could the zha jiang mian taste different because of the korean influence? Ja jang myun is the korean version of the same dish, and is usually served with lots of seafood, as you describe.

[nianfong]

zucchini means the kung pao chicken is "teh fake"
very likely it's the korean influence. I get the impression san tung is more korean than chinese.

[a_and_w]

You could be right about the Korean influence, which explains why I like it. Frankly, I prefer what tastes good to me over what others deem authentic.

PS: I'm pretty sure the owners speak Korean.

[tanspace]

Zucchini in Kung Pao is definitely Korean influence as there weren't much green pepper in Korea in the old days. When the Chinese Shandong chef in Korea emigrated to US, they brought the same recipe of using zucchini with them so that's what you'll see. It is normally also present in Zha Jiang sauce.

But then most Kung Pao chicken in America is "the fake" as the true Kung Pao chicken does not even have green pepper or spanish onion (or carrots as you mentioned). It should be just dry hot pepper and peanuts.

But then again, San Tung is a Shandong style restaurant, we should not expect great Sichuan dishes there. However, I remember it not even being great at the Shandong originals such as Gan Pong Chicken (dry fried chicken) because it is too sweet (also more Korean influence) and Liang Zhang Pi (double skin) or even the noodle dishes.

Zha Jiang Mian, another Shandong specialty, usually has two varieties, wet kind and dry kind. The one with softer ingredients and lots of sauce is the original Zha Jiang Mian. The other kind with firmer ingredients and less sauce is the dry version. I'm not sure which one San Tung serves. Either variety should mix with the noodles very well, unless it was not done right.

Last time I was at San Tung: (man that was long time ago)
http://eat.tanspace.com/2003/06/29/ch...

-t

[Melanie Wong]

Mr. Tan, I'm delighted to have you posting more again. When you have a chance, I'd love to hear about any Shandong or Korean-Chinese places you've tried lately. Maybe start a new thread. My own opinion, but I feel that San Tung gets far too much play on these boards for the so-so level of the cooking. I'd love to hear about other spots that you would recommend and give folks some alternatives.

[badbatzmaru]

I never enjoyed the San Tung on Irving and 10th/11th for some reason. I always thought the hole in the wall place that they closed down around Irving and 25th was the better of the two. Always enjoyed their steamed chive dumplings, 3 deluxe seafood noodles, and the homemade kim chee with the hint of fresh ginger. Sadly, that store is long gone, having been replaced by the mediocre "SO" in its place on the same street.

[Gary Soup]

I'm with you on that. We used to go to the westernmost location all the time, but somehow couldn't get it up for the 10th Ave one.

[Melanie Wong]

Walked past "So" today on my way to TC Pastry and noticed a sign posted on the door that it no longer serves potstickers or dumplings.

[a_and_w]

I think it's a little odd that you acknowledge the Korean influence then judge it solely by Shandong standards. By Korean-Chinese standards they execute the fried dishes well (noodle dishes less so) which is why it's popular and well known among Koreans.

PS: I agree that the old location on 25th was better but I still like the location at 10th, too.

[badbatzmaru]

Yeah, agree with a and w, kind of comparing a fuji apple to barlett or granny smith. It's Korean/Chinese/Shandong style, not strictly "shandong shandong" style. But at the same time, nice to know what the "authentic" version is supposed to be like if there really is an authentic version. What is something is not the authentic version but tastes even better than the authentic version? hm.........

[Gary Soup]

I think the point is that the restaurant owners chose to name it "Shandong" (in both English and Chinese). If you talk the talk, you should also walk the walk, so to speak.

[tanspace]

What I'm saying was specifically for Gan Pong Chicken, I prefer the version where it is a combination of spicy/salty and slightly sweet, with just a bit of sauce. I think some of the versions have becoming overly sweet, and as someone else mentioned, almost KFC BBQ honey chicken like. There's nothing wrong with that if it tastes good but it's just not what I want when I eat Gan Pong.

There are still Korean-Chinese restaurants that serve them like Chinese restaurants do in Korea, with Korean influence and all. Cafe Yulong in Mountain View makes an excellent version of Gan Pong Shrimp for instance without being too sweet.

I think it's important to spread the knowledge so people know the origin of the dishes. So that someone who had the sweet version of Gan Pong chicken at San Tung doesn't think that it's what it's supposed to be. I would think that majority of the Korean-Chinese restaurants would serve them a little less sweet, and don't want these to be considered as not authentic simply because San Tung is more famous.

[a_and_w]

I gotcha. I usually order my dry fried chicken dry, so I can't really comment on the sweetness of the sauce. But I agree -- the dish should not be overly sweet.

[a_and_w]

I agree it's important to clarify the korean influence so people will have appropriate expectations. But many people seem to be criticizing San Tung because it departs from "authentic" Shandong cooking. I'm just noting that some of those criticisms (e.g., zucchini in the kung pao and seafood in the ja jang myun) are strengths from the perspective of someone looking for korean-chinese.

[tanspace]

Definitely agreed there. Seafood in Zha Jiang Mian is in fact the right variety to order as it is considered the "best" version of that dish. I would go so far as to say that I would be wary of any place that does NOT offer the "3 deluxe seafood" version of the Zha Jiang Mian.

Similarly, for zucchini in Kung Pao, I think it is fine just as the Americanized version is also fine, as long as they taste good. I've eaten plenty of Kung Pao dishes with green pepper and onions and they tasted great - because the sauce makes the difference in this dish, not so much the veggies.

[spork]

like dave said. go to shanghai house on balboa. i prefer it over dumpling king.

the shanghai house dry fried chicken gets a split decision from my group of friends. not in a bad way. we split on whether its better than san tung's dry fried. i think its better, its a crispier skin and a more balanced (spicier) sauce, where as for me the san tung version is a bit overly sweet.

i can't compare the dumplings as i haven't ordered them, but shanghai house is becoming a favorite rest of mine recently. i've been there at least 4 times in the past couple months, and have brought friends and family there who all give it high regards.

try their smoked ham, tofu skin soup... its excellent and rich. you can tell its been cooked for quite a while.

[DavidB]

Would anyone happen to have the address of Shanghai House? I tried searching for it on citysearch but nothing came up.

[shortexact]

Shanghai House
3641 Balboa St
San Francisco, CA

415.831.9288

[Melanie Wong]

Here's more on Shanghai House,
http://www.chow.com/digest/1649

[nianfong]

yelp is your source for all things local. citysearch sucks.
http://www.yelp.com/tsr?r=http%3A%2F%...

[Atomica]

Or go to Google and type in: "Shanghai House" +San Francisco

[nianfong]

fully agreed, though I haven't been to shanghai house yet. The chicken at san tung is too sweet. shanghai house dry fried chicken is probably you lin ji (oil drizzled chicken), because that's more shanghai style.

[Dave MP]

I just recently had the dry fried chicken at Shanghai House and it's also very sweet. Possibly even sweeter than San Tung, but definitely comparable. The sauce was very sticky (but good).

Dave MP

[Nancy Berry]

This place is owned by the same family as San Tung and has a very similar menu (not as extensive as San Tung, though.) Here's a link to the menu:

So Restaurant
2240 Irving St- Btwn 23rd & 24th Ave
San Francisco, CA 94122

415 731-3143

http://sanfrancisco.menupages.com/res...

[Melanie Wong]

GMTA!

[a_and_w]

Is the food prepared the same at So, or do they do a more healthy variation on the favorites? I love San Tung but my mom hates all the MSG and corn starch (though she still eats it).

[specialja]

The food at So is definitely not a healthy variation of San Tung. Noodles obviously, are their specialty as they compose half of the menu. Huge portions and pretty heavy. Pork with Hot Peppers Noodles and So Fish are bomb. Their batter is lighter and not as sweet as Sun Tung's. A bit of a warning though, their food is SPICY! They aren't kidding when they say spicy. I love it!

[a_and_w]

Interesting...are they on the same open-closing schedule as San Tung?

[Melanie Wong]

When I walked by So on Monday afternoon (3/19), there was a sign up that it would be closed for a few days in late March. But not into April, iirc,

[a_and_w]

Oh, I meant are they closed the same days during the week as San Tung. It seems like the latter is open less and less every time I visit.

[Melanie Wong]

The second generation operates So on the other end of Irving, opposite side of the street. It has some of the same dishes in a more contemporary setting.

So [Sunset]
2240 Irving St
San Francisco 94122
415-731-3143

[Dave MP]

You could head to outer Richmond and go to Shanghai House or Shanghai Dumpling King, both on Balboa.

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/381815

Also, what types of food did you get at San Tung? Maybe certain other restaurants will make versions of what you liked at San Tung.

Dave MP

[Melanie Wong]

It serves Shandong (san tung) and Korean-Chinese style food.

[Atomica]

Have the Dry Fried Flounder Filet at Shanghai House. Reminiscent of the dry fried chicken at San Tung, but even more delicious.

[chocolatetartguy]

They have dry fried flounder at San Tung too. I prefer it to the chicken.