379331 Fri Mar 09 15:11:48 -0800 2007 46 41 Cookware 0 2370964 Which is the best of the low end espresso makers? Any boob can spend a fortune on a machine, but all I want is a decent cuppa. Fri Mar 09 15:11:49 -0800 2007 59213 mymymichl 1 2371067 You'll always hear praise for a nice fup of French Press, but that's not really espresso. I found a nice little stovetop espresso maker at Ikea. It has a bottom compartment for the water, a perforated cup for the grounds, and then the water percolates up through the grounds into the top (screwed on) compartment where it holds your espresso. It looks kind of like this: http://www.kitchenemporium.com/cgi-bin/kitchen/prod/16co270.html Fri Mar 09 15:36:57 -0800 2007 2370964 42944 leanneabe 2 2383969 I think the kind of pot shown in that link is definitely the way to go if you need an inexpensive espresso maker. Wed Mar 14 06:53:36 -0700 2007 2371067 18017 Captain 3 2388879 This is definitely the way to go if you want a cheap and very authentic Espresso Maker. Its how the Italians made (and still make) Espresso before the Espresso Machine existed. As with everything, its worth paying a little more for a good one. You want something very sturdy with a VERY tight seal, usually a rubber gasket between the top and bottom. Water boils in the bottom, turns to steam, and is quickly forced through the grounds into the top - that's why they call it Espresso, because it passes through the grounds so quickly. With a stove top device, you have complete control over the process - amount of water, coffee, temperature, etc. In machines you don't always have that control. Also very easy to keep the whole thing clean - its not easy to get into the bowels of a machine. Also, easy to put away so you don't have to have a big ugly Espresso machine on your counter all day. Thu Mar 15 11:21:33 -0700 2007 2383969 38577 wak 1 2371282 If you really love espresso, there are really few ways to get it at home cheap cheap. My suggestion is to buy a Rancilio Silvia. It's the cheapest espresso machine out there that can do it decently. You see them on eBay often enough used. Otherwise, buy an aeropress and pretend it's espresso. Fri Mar 09 16:59:18 -0800 2007 2370964 80328 fini 1 2371284 I'd suggest also the pot that leanneabe recommended . Sometimes called a Moka pot. Just about every Italian family owns one. You can find them really cheap in some stores... I have seen 6 cup models as low as $12.99 at places like Marshalls. Bear in mind that a "cup" is an espresso sized cup. The purists claim they don't make true espresso. Don't worry...they make a nice cup anyway. If you like cappucionos, though, you're going to have to figure out a way to froth milk separately. Most are made of aluminum but I have seen stainless steel ones for as low as $6.99 at some stores. Bialetti is the originator of these pots but there are dozens of knock-offs... Bialetti makes a moka pot that also froths milk in the upper chamber. However this pot - called a Mukka - might be a bit pricey for you. It is around $69 (Bed Baths and Beyond seems to have the best price). I have a Rancilio Silvia AND three moka pots and I enjoy the Moka pots just as much... Go for it. Fri Mar 09 16:59:54 -0800 2007 2370964 18981 Jimmy Buffet 2 2379442 Definitely the Bialetti Moka pot is the best way to go. It's cheap and although you don't get the crema that you get in the machine, it's still a great cup of coffee. A lot of people in Italy use them every day. If you want a cappuccino, Bialetti also makes a nonstick milk frother that does a good job. http://www.laprimashops.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=160 Mon Mar 12 19:46:15 -0700 2007 2371284 10157 farmersdaughter 1 2371359 And don't forget, save some of your espresso machine money for a good grinder. At the very least a Rocky. Most espresso fanatics feel the grinder is at least as important as the espresso machine, and a good percentage of those feel it's more important. Fri Mar 09 17:27:44 -0800 2007 2370964 11003 chipman 2 2371669 Good call Chipman! Fri Mar 09 19:29:41 -0800 2007 2371359 80328 fini 1 2372693 If you gave us an idea of how muh you want to spend, that would help. I invested in the Starbuck'c Barista over 5 years ago and use it all the time. They go on sale twice a year and are about $350 (I think). It takes a little learning to use it - you do need to look at the manual or watch the DVD that comes with it (I recommend the latter), but after that it's consistent and a work-horse. Makes a lovely crema. It's made by Saeco and is a really good machine for the price - if you look it up on coffeegeeks & other sites, you will see very positive reviews from those of us who don't spend hours a day thinking about coffee, but really love it. I second the rec. to get a good grinder (or buy your espresso from a reputable place pre-ground in small amounts) rather than using a blade grinder as you will get disappointing espresso no matter what format you choose. Sat Mar 10 10:27:47 -0800 2007 2370964 17956 jcanncuk 1 2381535 My entire life, my Sicilian grandmother has made our espresso in Bialetti stovetop pots. Our family prefers LaVaz(z?)a in the gold can. For years her sister shipped it to her from Sicily, but now we can find it stateside. Back home they order it by the case, here I buy it at World Market. Tue Mar 13 12:19:50 -0700 2007 2370964 14222 abowes 1 2381572 The Bialetti/Lavazze combo are perfect and will set you back less than $30: a great starter kit! Don't forget to keep your Bialetti pristine which means carefully prying the rubber ring and filter out and washing it after every use. Otherwise the tast of stale coffee oils will spoil this other wise authentic cup of espresso! Tue Mar 13 12:27:17 -0700 2007 2370964 24738 LJS 2 2382454 I recently scared a native Italian when he heard that I washed my Bialetti with soap. Anyone know if the correct way to wash it is with just water? Tue Mar 13 16:04:44 -0700 2007 2381572 70339 yumyumyogi 3 2387176 Italian friends I was staying with almost choked me when they caught me washing the Bialetti with soap. I did it their way while I stayed with them. I usually rinse and dry my own and wash it quickly with soap about every week or so when it starts to look grungy. Never, ever in the dishwasher. The Bialetti makes fabulous espresso. Millions of Italians cherish those little pots for good reason. And they all seem to be perfectly happy with the espresso grind they buy at the market too. Wed Mar 14 21:16:27 -0700 2007 2382454 32444 MakingSense 4 2437951 I have to say that I agree with the old-timers. I NEVER scrub my Bialetti. I just rinse all parts in hot water after each use. I found that the first few pots that I made in my new Bialetti tasted bad. It wasn't until may pots later that the coffee started tasting better. I think of it as seasoning my Moka Pot, just like I would season my cast iron. Sat Mar 31 05:37:53 -0700 2007 2387176 84296 mightycheesehead 5 2444939 He he. I suppose it's a trade off. If you clean it you get to enjoy that nice aluminum metallic aftertaste (unless you spent some bucks for an Alessi, in which case you rock) where as you just get rancid coffee oil taint by not scrubbing it. Mon Apr 02 21:06:47 -0700 2007 2437951 80328 fini 1 2383961 I, also, have heard this from old timers. Personally, I don't believe you can really get the stale oils off with hot water alone and I have used a mild dish detergent for years with no complaints from coffee lovers for either my expresso or my latte. BUT do NOT put it in the dishwasher as I did once...some sort of "pitting" thing happened to the surface. Wed Mar 14 06:51:28 -0700 2007 2370964 24738 LJS 1 2385177 We used an inexpensive Krups for about 10 years. When that went kaput, I replaced it with a used Gaggia. I decided that I didn't want to deal with a grinder so I replaced it with a Saeco Classica that uses a pressurized portafilter that makes the grind not as critical. It makes decent espresso and lattes with good crema. The machine is around 250ish expecially if you get a reconditioned one from wholelattelove. Wed Mar 14 11:55:20 -0700 2007 2370964 13962 Cheesy Oysters 1 2387603 I think the bias against washing may come from those who are so vigorous about it that they remove the oxide coating that develops on aluminum. You want to leave that intact as much as possible to avoid "metallic" flavors that some might complain about, although I have never tasted it. Thu Mar 15 05:14:00 -0700 2007 2370964 18981 Jimmy Buffet 1 2396665 On a recent trip to Italy we bought a stovetop espresso make whose top chamber was ceramic. It is not so prone to boiling the finished coffee which seems inevitable with the aluminum/stainless varieties. For cappucino making there is a device that looks like a french press which fluffs the milk and then allows you to micro-wave it. Groovy! Sun Mar 18 06:54:18 -0700 2007 2370964 17299 little big al 1 2396741 I have a ten-year-old Starbucks espresso/cappuccino machine, and whoever recommended it is absolutely right. The cheap department store ones make crappy espresso, and the real high-end ones are too much money for me, but the Starbucks is like the entry-level serious machine. I could not be more happy with it, especially since it's so durable. You do need to find the right grind and use spring water. But ... that isn't what I would recommend. I would get a moka pot. I have a one that's 20 years old and love it - sometimes I use it even though I have a perfectly nice machine. I thought those Mukkas by Bialetti sounded great, but I do have a friend who has one and loathes it. I would suggest getting your Moka from Fante's. They have a bunch, they're priced fairly, they have experienced staff, and they offer replacement parts like filters and gaskets. Even if you decide to buy someplace else, it's worth consulting this page: http://www.fantes.com/espresso_stovetop.htm to read the text/diagram about how stovetop pots work. Figure out what kind of espresso roast you like. There's actually a pretty wide range of what is considered espresso roast. I prefer darker roasts - I've been suffering through a pound of Nizza (by La Colombe, a roaster I really like). Many people like Nizza, but it's not my thing. And this figure out what kind of grind gives you the best results. I have read that a coarser grind (still espresso fine, but not as fine as for a machine) is best for Moka pots. Sun Mar 18 07:48:25 -0700 2007 2370964 42513 Mawrter 1 2416367 Please, people. They're moka pots, not stovetop espresso pots. They can may make a good strong cup of coffee but it's not espresso. The coffee is brewed with boiling hot water and steam (100C), not sub-boiling water (90-92C) like in an espresso machine. And the pressure is between 1 and 2 bar, not the 9 bar required for espresso. And they rely on steam pressure, not a pump, to push the water through the grounds. And they take however long they need to brew, not the 20-25 seconds prescribed for espresso. And they don't do crema. That's why coffee grind and freshness are not so important for moka pots and really important for good espresso ("remember, the espresso machine is the accessory to the grinder, not the other way around"). I'm not knocking moka pots, by the way. I still use mine occasionally to make milk-based drinks. But espresso machines they ain't. Fri Mar 23 22:27:14 -0700 2007 2370964 10520 carswell 2 2416933 So if I were able to purchase anything from a vintage steam driven 1901 Bezzera Tipo Gigante up to, say a 1946 Faema, I would not be getting true espresso from it? Sat Mar 24 08:46:57 -0700 2007 2416367 18981 Jimmy Buffet 3 2417212 I'm with you - I can't go along with that exclusive definition of espresso. It's not a denominazione, kwim? Sat Mar 24 11:19:54 -0700 2007 2416933 42513 Mawrter 4 2417537 I have used the same Alessi stovetop since 1979--I got it at the Museum of Modern Art after a review of the machine in the Times. This is the first time I've heard this silliness about not washing it with soap. I've probably made close to 4,000 cups of coffee with the machine. I've washed it in the dishwasher thousands of times. Once or twice a year I boil white vinegar in the machiine to get rid of the acid. Since it is stainless steel, the acid does not really absorb into the metal. I get a new casket once or twice a year. Sat Mar 24 13:49:12 -0700 2007 2417212 19760 BMartin 5 2418155 For those who also were curious to see the Alessi: http://www.illyusa.com/AB1666000store/images/popup/alessi.jpg That's really nice. Sat Mar 24 19:57:52 -0700 2007 2417537 42513 Mawrter 5 2835958 BMartin - I think you may be able to help me. I have an Alessi stovetop and recently decided to change the gasket. Now I can't get a tight seal. I have been working on this for at least a week!!! I can only see one way to put it in - my hands are sore from pushing and squishing. HELP! Sat Aug 11 09:53:39 -0700 2007 2417537 118453 MBC 4 2418047 I think the folks who don't wash them are mainly people who have used aluminum pots. Sat Mar 24 18:48:45 -0700 2007 2417991 18981 Jimmy Buffet 5 2418086 Since my definition of what espresso is basically the same as what carswell wrote in his well thought out post, maybe, since you have a more liberal definition, you could tell us what you think espresso is. Sat Mar 24 19:09:05 -0700 2007 2418047 11003 chipman 4 2418098 I think that "espresso" encompasses a wide range of coffee-brewing techniques. Just like some people prefer French press over drip. So what is espresso? Originally, it meant a quick cup. Technically, it has encompassed far more. The manufacturers of espresso machines prior to the invention of the Gaggia crema-producing machines called their machines "espresso machines". Did they not produce espresso? Or was it just strong coffee? Bialetti, the inventors of the original Moka pot, claim their product is the "The #1 Espresso Maker in the world". Are they engaging in false advertising? When I tamp the portafilter of my Rancilio machine such that I maybe get a fifteen second pour or do not get a nice head of crema, it might not be the best cup I have had, but to me, its still espresso. I am not tring to provoke an argument - there are those who think that because I haven't modified my Silvia with electronic temperature controllers or because I don't "temperature surf" with stopwatch in one hand and another on the brew switch that I'm not producing "true espresso" either. So be it. I think the distinction is that pump driven, thermostatically controled espresso machines developing in excess of 9 bar, etc. etc. may produce a BETTER tasting cup of espresso but I think we are a bit shortsighted when we dismiss technology and techniques that for almost a half century gave millions of people a product that they enjoyed and named "espresso". Sat Mar 24 19:15:10 -0700 2007 2417212 18981 Jimmy Buffet 5 2418131 Ok, I accept your definition, however, no matter what its called I still prefer the drink I get out of my 'espresso machine'. I like stove top espresso too, but give me a perfectly ground, dosed, distributed, tamped and brewed shot and I couldn't be happier. Sat Mar 24 19:44:21 -0700 2007 2418098 11003 chipman 5 2418185 When did all this "crema" thing get started anyway? I'm really more interested in the espresso than the foam on top! Sat Mar 24 20:18:25 -0700 2007 2418098 32444 MakingSense 6 2418258 The crema is the espresso. Not only is most of the taste in the crema, but a thick layer of crema is an indicator that the beans were ground and brewed correctly. Sat Mar 24 21:03:00 -0700 2007 2418185 11003 chipman 5 2444931 I have to take chipman's side, technically speaking moka is moka and espresso is espresso. Many people liken coffee made in a moka pot to an espresso americano; simply an espresso shot topped off with hot water. So moka really isn't espresso, does it have some of the same characteristics, yes. As for Bialetti claiming to be the number one espresso maker in the world, that's just marketing. Before the 80's the only espresso most people had a chance to taste was during a visit to Europe. Clever Bialetti caught on to the fact that people returning home to the States desired that strong cup of coffee they savored while in Rome, so they marketed their moka pot as an espresso maker. There was a popular stovetop espresso maker that made it's way into the U.S. during the 50's. It was called the "Atomic Espresso Maker" It technically was, but it functioned more or less like one of the baby Krups steamtoys. You can see them on eBay regularly, though they can fetch a tidy sum. Cheers. Mon Apr 02 21:03:59 -0700 2007 2418098 80328 fini 6 2446064 Whatever! Enjoy what you're drinking. Tue Apr 03 09:49:38 -0700 2007 2444931 18981 Jimmy Buffet 1 2436903 Most Italian households still use the stove top, traditional aluminum (don't cringe) Bialetti espresso machine (not mukka, not fancy, JUST PLAIN). We use Lavazza Oro espresso; quality of espresso coffee is important too, and pack it in lightly. Fri Mar 30 15:37:01 -0700 2007 2370964 79652 itryalot 2 2443901 The beautiful fruit of the crema-producing machines is made by below boiling water (165-175 degrees F) placed under sufficient pressure. I found a device called an AeroPot that does this with a micro filter and a rubber plunger. Add medium ground coffee and the proper temperature water. Then use your hand (somewhat like a french press) to exert pressure on the tight fitting rubber plunger. It makes oodles of crema and hands down the smoothest cup of espresso I have ever had- though it is somewhat complicated to get all the parts together *before* I have had coffee in the morning. I got mine for about $30. http://aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm Mon Apr 02 14:25:11 -0700 2007 2436903 88030 Y0H0N 3 2451167 At $199 CDN the Breville Cafe Roma has worked perfectly for my Father. Nice crema and a good steaming wand. I would go for that and save the money you aren't spending on Starbucks and buy a Silvia or a La Pavoni piston in a few years. Trust me it is doable. Wed Apr 04 14:51:01 -0700 2007 2443901 86233 applejuice 3 2452185 I've been curious about the aeropress, I'm glad you post about it. In your opinion, is it travel friendly? I mean is it something where you only need a source of hot water, and not really a stove or possibly not even a power outlet? Wed Apr 04 20:25:08 -0700 2007 2443901 10422 HLing 4 2452660 I just ordered the aeropress last night after reading about it here. I'll report back. Thu Apr 05 03:04:36 -0700 2007 2452185 19760 BMartin 3 2838568 I've got an Aeropress and I love the coffee it makes. Some of the posters above might not think that what the Aeropress makes is true espresso but what it does make is better than most of the stuff you will be served as espresso at chain coffee shops. Yeah, it makes excellent crema. Once you get used to using it assembling all the parts becomes routine and easy. I only paid $20 for mine at Amazon so shop around. Sun Aug 12 15:15:12 -0700 2007 2443901 41118 inuksuk 4 2839166 What kind of coffee do you get for it? Beans or pre ground? If so, how fine? How many cups does it make? Sun Aug 12 20:16:58 -0700 2007 2838568 10369 mimish 5 2839485 I use whole bean whatever is on sale but it makes fine coffee with supermarket pre-ground brands too. Darker roasts are, natch, going to taste more like espresso. A fine grind is going to give you better results than regular grind. This is the review that convinced me to buy the Aeropress: http://www.singleservecoffee.com/archives/004326.php The contraption makes one to four servings of "espresso" each of which can be diluted with hot water to make an 8oz regular cup of coffee. Sun Aug 12 23:47:20 -0700 2007 2839166 41118 inuksuk 1 2835980 WE have bought many. The mukka express by Bialetti makes a wicked capp/latte. Parents, relatives, even those in Italy all swear by the old fashioned Bialetti (aluminum with a black handle). We have all bought a variety of the spin offs at homesense and have gone back to our old standby. For coffee itself, I purchased Illy at costco for $10 and was not that impressed; we all use lavazza gold in cryovac packed. If you want it strong, pack it down more, otherwise it comes out a little on the watery side. Sat Aug 11 10:06:46 -0700 2007 2370964 79652 itryalot 1 2838473 Your title says a lot. First I agree with Chipman about the definition of espresso. Stove top moka pots do not produce true espresso. But you can get a very good cup of strong espresso like coffee equal or better to most of what is being brewed in espresso machines by poorly trained employees of coffee shops and restaurants. Most espresso I've had outside my home have been poor examples of the real deal. I will also tell you that the grinder is more important than the espresso machine but that tecnique is also very important as well as fresh coffee in producing good espresso. Based on your title I would recommend the stove top makers over Krups type steam machines. The Ranchillo Silvia is a low cost home espresso machine. Not the only one in that catagory but one that has a solid fan club. I have a Solis SL 70 and use a Mazzer Mini grinder. I also roast my own coffee and blend for espresso. If you can't spend around $600+ ( base price) on an espresso machine and grinder then save your money and go for the stove top or aeropress. If you don't like the results, well you only spent $25. No big deal. Sun Aug 12 14:27:57 -0700 2007 2370964 89493 scubadoo97 2 2839061 What is it about Italian cooking terms that provokes such discussions about the true meaning? paulj Sun Aug 12 19:23:26 -0700 2007 2838473 12139 paulj 2 2839091 >> If you don't like the results, well you only spent $25 Who knows? You may like it better. Sun Aug 12 19:38:10 -0700 2007 2838473 18981 Jimmy Buffet