378444 Wed Mar 07 10:59:15 -0800 2007 16 31 Home Cooking 0 2362107 I've been asked to bake a cake to be served at a kosher dinner for 150 in Phoenix over Memorial Day weekend. I would have access to the caterer's kitchen and all their pans, machines, freezers, etc. I haven't committed because, truthfully, I'm a really good home cook, but baking's not my strong suit. And for 150? Oy! They want a simple white cake with white icing and the caterer says they'd take care of decorating it with flowers or whatever, so I wouldn't have to worry about that part. Good thing, 'cause it would end up looking like a first-grader's art project on mommy's fridge. I haven't said yes yet, because I really don't think I'm up to the challenge, but I thought I should just look at some books, to see how hard it would be. So I need your advice on cookbooks that specialize in either kosher or vegan cakes - wedding cakes, in particular. Anything you can tell me - consider it a mitzvah! Wed Mar 07 10:59:16 -0800 2007 10787 Deenso 1 2362198 Is there a reason you're looking for vegan recipes? The use of eggs shouldn't be a problem because they're parve and can be used with either milk or meat meals. Do you know if the meal preceding this cake will be dairy or meat? If it's dairy then you can use a regular recipe. If it's meat, then you'll need to make substitutions for any milk or butter. Kosher cakes that can be served after a meat meal typically use vegetable oil as the fat. Wed Mar 07 11:19:37 -0800 2007 2362107 40284 AmyH 2 2362291 It will be a meat meal, which is why I was thinking about vegan. It's the butter cream frosting (the bride and groom have requested) that has to be switched out with some kind of parve ingredient. I'm clueless. When I bake, it's usually pies made with ready-made pie crust and cakes made from mixes with some doctoring and fine-tuning. The bride's mother seems perfectly happy for me to use kosher cake mix. As she put it, "it's only a token, everybody's going to get just a little square, and have you ever actually tasted a GOOD wedding cake? There will be other desserts." Actually, I have tasted good wedding cakes, but whatever... Wed Mar 07 11:36:32 -0800 2007 2362198 10787 Deenso 3 2362335 Oooh! This will be a tough one. I can't even think of a kosher cake mix you could use, much less a buttercream icing with no butter. I think you'll have better luck with this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1570671834/ or this one: http://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Dairy-Free-Desserts-Wantuck-Eisenberg/dp/0977961796/ good luck! Wed Mar 07 11:43:38 -0800 2007 2362291 40284 AmyH 3 2362352 I've been wanting to try this vegan buttercream recipe. It might work for you: http://www.chow.com/recipes/10856 Wed Mar 07 11:47:10 -0800 2007 2362291 39874 chowser 1 2362236 Deenso, I'd recommend Marcy Goldman's A Treasury of Jewish Holiday Baking. Marcy is based in Montreal, and this first book of hers is great. I believe she has another book coming out soon. http://www.amazon.com/Treasury-Jewish-Holiday-Baking/dp/0767918487/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-0997138-4342855?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173295454&sr=8-2 Wed Mar 07 11:27:02 -0800 2007 2362107 48352 FlavoursGal 2 2362301 Thanks, FG. I'll take a look at this book if my local Barnes & Noble has it. Wed Mar 07 11:38:21 -0800 2007 2362236 10787 Deenso 3 2362538 You're welcome, Deenso. But I'm curious as to why you've been asked to bake this cake. You're extremely wary, and I don't blame you if you're not much of a baker, as you yourself claim. I'd imagine that Phoenix has a sizeable Jewish community. Is there no kosher-certified bakery that could bake the cake? And how about the caterers themselves? Why are they willing to decorate, but not bake? Wed Mar 07 12:24:12 -0800 2007 2362301 48352 FlavoursGal 4 2362682 When I asked my friend about the caterers, she simply said, "They don't do them." I didn't pursue it. However, there have got to be kosher bakers and she knows them all, since she's the local temple administrator. Truthfully, I suspect she's looking to save money since, if I baked the cake, she'd only have to pay for the materials and not my time, overhead, insurance, etc. We've known each other since she was born and I was 6 months old. Hard to turn down someone you've known for 60 years. I'm very seriously thinking of saying no (in fact, it's pretty definite) but thought I owed it to her to give it some consideration. Wed Mar 07 13:08:21 -0800 2007 2362538 10787 Deenso 5 2362717 Having done this before, before I started baking as much as I do now, it was a lot of work baking a cake for that many people. You have to figure out how many cups of batter per people, how many per cake layer, etc. Baking a large cake isn't the same as baking a small cake and you really have to even the layers after baking or you'll get a lopsided cake. Plus, making the frosting and frosting the cake took me a few days back then. Powdered sugar everywhere. I lost a lot of sleep over it. Just moving the cake was a lot of work (and those frosted large layers are heavy!). Doing it now, for me wouldn't be nearly as bad because I bake frequently now but since you say you're not a baker, it could be challenging. Did you say on the other board that you're undergoing medical treatments, too? Do you have the energy to deal with it all? I don't want to discourage you but I wanted to give you a first hand look at what I did about 15 years ago. It's great that she wants to save money but it's on your back and you have good reasons. Wed Mar 07 13:18:24 -0800 2007 2362682 39874 chowser 6 2362745 Yeah, chowser. You make a lot of sense. I'll have my last chemo early in April, and the wedding is at the end of May. Perhaps my friend assumes I'll be physically up to the challenge by then and, even though I hope she's right about that, I'm definitely not up to the culinary challenge and am going to tell her so this weekend. I don't need the stress. Dinner for 8? That I can handle, soup to nuts, but this is ridiculous. Wed Mar 07 13:26:14 -0800 2007 2362717 10787 Deenso 5 2362727 Deenso, if you want my opinion, a two or three layer cake using a large commercial pan is probably sufficient. I've been to countless bar/bat mitzvahs (including my own daughters') in the past few years, some with guest lists upwards of 200-250 people, and the "main" cake has never been overly huge. It's the lousy pareve squares and fruit platters that seem to attract most people. If you do go ahead with it, don't stress out over the 150-person guest list. Not everyone will have a piece, and the pieces cut from such cakes tend to be small. Wed Mar 07 13:21:50 -0800 2007 2362682 48352 FlavoursGal 1 2362248 I think this might be the best book for you: http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Kosher-Cuisine-Catering-Friends/dp/0977017206/ It has a whole section on catering and the use of commercial cake pans. It doesn't have a plain white cake recipe, but it does have lots of other cake recipes. Whichever recipe you choose, whether from this book or another, be sure to run it by the person who is supervising the kitchen to be sure that it will be kosher in the context of the rest of the meal being served. The laws of kashrut can be complex. Wed Mar 07 11:29:36 -0800 2007 2362107 40284 AmyH 1 2362415 Most commercial "buttercream" , kosher or not, is made with veg shortening and presumably the B&G, being Jews, realize they're not going to get butter with their meat meal, no? I think the stuff is disgusting, but most people at least tolerate it and surely you've eaten it yourself - it's the mainstay of average kosher bakeries (which usually insist on being parve) and most non-specialty (expensive, "foodie" ish) bakeries too, for that matter. A lot of people don't even like proper buttercream, being so used to the un-flavor of the fake stuff. If you mean a sheet cake, it's not THAT big a deal. Wedding cake is cut in very small slices and 150 works out to less than you might think. But on the other hand, just mechanically, it's going to be a lot of (HEAVY) batter, with large heavy pans, etc. and unfamiliar equipment. If you've never made even a really big cake at home, you may find yourself in way over your head. If you can make it ahead and freeze the cake itself (fine, in a good freezer, if they're willing and have the space), you'll have time to deal with what will be inevitable problems and still get it made on time. Wed Mar 07 11:57:36 -0800 2007 2362107 11980 MikeG 1 2362426 "and still get it made on time." with your sanity and friendships intact. ;) Wed Mar 07 11:59:58 -0800 2007 2362107 11980 MikeG 1 2362498 I have to say it doesn't sound worth the effort, especially if the caterer is going to be doing the decorating anyway - what's the point? Wed Mar 07 12:17:09 -0800 2007 2362107 12203 Bride of the Juggler 1 2363078 I agree with the other posters, and your instincts, that you should not take on this project. Your health is much more important, and you don't need the stress. There must be a parve kosher bakery in Phoenix, or a Kosher caterer, who can make the cake. Or at least some people who can bake it in a commercial synagogue kitchen. I have never heard of a caterer who doesn't either make the wedding cake, or have someone who they have make it for them. The fewer vendors to deal with the better. White icing on white cake. Totally boring. Why bother with chemical fake "butter cream"? Our pareve cake was a banana cake with chocolate frosting. The bananas made it moist, the chocolate frosting was pretty good--and the caterer brought it to the synagogue. Good luck--stick up for yourself. p.j. Wed Mar 07 14:36:51 -0800 2007 2362107 13038 p.j.