374408 Fri Feb 23 20:32:55 -0800 2007 29 35 Beer 0 2324513 I like a good black and tan... just wondering what some of your favorites might be... Having nothing better to do, tonight I tried mixing two exceptional brews: Alpha King IPA and Brooklyn Choc Stout.... I found the result pleasant but not a revelation.... in a strange way it sort of "flattened" out the high notes of each brew... Have any favorites ??? Fri Feb 23 20:32:55 -0800 2007 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2325812 Smithwick's and Guinness Sat Feb 24 13:08:36 -0800 2007 2324513 66179 jonathon 1 2326389 Black and Red- Guiness and Killians Black Beauty- Guiness and Champagne Sat Feb 24 17:20:18 -0800 2007 2324513 14495 viperlush 2 2457546 Guiness and Champagne is called a Black Velvet. Fri Apr 06 11:48:00 -0700 2007 2326389 69312 Thirsty Dog 1 2326926 Curious... do you pour the tan element first or the black element, from an aesthetic point of view... or does it matter ? Sat Feb 24 23:26:51 -0800 2007 2324513 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2327532 i think you pour the guinness in first, let it settle a bit and then pour the other beer. the guinness should rise to the top naturally. btw, guinnes (or a sweeter oatmeal stout works well:) and hard cider is a nice combo. not really a black and tan but nice Sun Feb 25 09:47:14 -0800 2007 2324513 42755 ben61820 2 2329365 If you're going for the authentic half and half, I thought the whole point was to layer it. Since Guinness, despite it's color, is a relatively light beer, you pour it over an inverted, bent-up spoon to keep it from mixing. Now whether you can do that as well with some other combination, I don't know. The other thing to note is that I always thought a half and half was Guinness and Harp (ale/lager, both Irish) until the marketing folks decided to push Bass after a corporate mega-merger put them all in the same basket. Mon Feb 26 05:21:03 -0800 2007 2327532 12626 ted 3 2329449 "Black and Tans" and "Half and Halfs" have been made in bars and bottled by brewers since before Prohibition and it's only agressive marketing by Guinness that has people thinking that the "real" ones are only Guinness/Bass or Guinness/Harp, respectively. Here's an label from the 1890's from some outfit in St. Louis ... http://home.comcast.net/~beerlabel/ half way down, (yellow diamond shape, next to a Blatz and a Lemp label) * and a Half and Half - http://www.breweriana.com/bottles/bottleneuweilerhalfhalf.jpg Bass was never a Guinness or Diageo product- but it was, for many years, imported into the US by their subsidiary company, Guinness USA (for a time, it was actually known as Guinness-Bass Imports, or something similar). When, in the last few years, InBev came to own the Bass brand, they did not renew the contract with Guinness USA and Bass was imported by their subsidiary, Labatt USA (altho' the contract has since been awarded to A-B). Diageo is now bringing in it's Smithwick's brand as a substitute for Bass and promotional material now pushes it as the "correct" beer for their "official" "Black and Tan". * Note that the A-B label disproves the myth that Black and Tan beers have something to do with the pro-UK, anti-Republican Irish police force of the 1920's. Mon Feb 26 06:32:19 -0800 2007 2329365 11059 JessKidden 4 2329461 interesting info! i've been on a smithwick's kick myself lately.....i quite like it! Mon Feb 26 06:37:57 -0800 2007 2329449 51618 hitachino 5 2338991 Smithwick's is delicious. Wed Feb 28 15:00:03 -0800 2007 2329461 18154 prunefeet 2 2338984 I THINK the guinness and cider mix is a shandy, tho I think I have heard of them as being stout and sprite as well, eek. Wed Feb 28 14:58:41 -0800 2007 2327532 18154 prunefeet 3 2344546 I finally remembered that one. At least the local Britpub chain calls that a "black velvet." Always thought beer and lemonade was a shandy. Fri Mar 02 05:50:40 -0800 2007 2338984 12626 ted 4 2344673 The faux-irish pub here calls that a Black Velveteen. Fri Mar 02 06:51:43 -0800 2007 2344546 72401 jnstarla 4 2413649 I stand corrected. Fri Mar 23 07:50:26 -0700 2007 2344546 18154 prunefeet 3 2346093 A shandy involves lemonade, believe it or not. When you mix stout and cider, it is usually called a Black Adder, Black Velvet, or something of that ilk. And no good Irishman would ever miss an Irish beer with an English one! Fri Mar 02 12:09:27 -0800 2007 2338984 76025 mojoeater 1 2327612 lately i've been mixing fruity ales (cherry, blueberry, rasberry) with porters and am enjoying the results. Sun Feb 25 10:19:19 -0800 2007 2324513 51618 hitachino 2 2327817 i agree. i like the framboise lambic with oatmeal stout again. the sweetnesses compliment eachother but the overwhelming sweetness of the lambic tones down any latent bitterness in the oatmeal as well. Sun Feb 25 11:38:48 -0800 2007 2327612 42755 ben61820 3 2328245 This is a VERY interesting thread here... WHY might someone find a Framboise to be interesting with Stout ?? I think it might be the Chocolate overtones in the stout!! And Raspberry and Chocolate is a tremendous matchup. You might experiement and try to find a more "chocolatey" stout such as Brooklyn or Rogue's CHocolate Stouts... I used to think that Storm King had great chocolate backnotes but the last 6-pack I had was really flattish... Also makes me wonder if adding a little shot of Godiva liqueur to the mix might be interesting! I mean if you're going to the extent of combining Lambic with stout, why not throw in a shot of godiva ! This is how tremendous flavor combinations are "stumbled" upon... One of the greatest combinations I ever personally discovered was horseradish and kiwi when I accidentally smeared a kiwi slice with horseradish, so maybe we're onto something there. I'll have to try it... HOWEVER, I can't visualize the connection with Porter quite as eaasily... given the heavy "tar" of porter vs. stout, but anything is possible. Sun Feb 25 14:36:26 -0800 2007 2327817 42549 Chicago Mike 4 2328491 i've never really gotten a 'tar' from porters. unless you mean smoked? ;) i may be showing some beer bourgeois here, but i've always likened porters to a thinner, more-sessionish stout. certainly, the fruity ales would be delish with stouts as well, albeit a tad more filling and heavy. i love experimenting. since i don't homebrew, that's all i get to do. when faced with a bottle of budweiser (last resortish) i'll throw in a crushed sprig of culantro, basil, rosemary or marjoram from my garden. (yes, i said culantro - i can't grow cilantro in FL, but culantro thrives and actually has even more cilantro flavor - LOVE it.) Sun Feb 25 16:11:38 -0800 2007 2328245 51618 hitachino 5 2332283 I've seen Chicago Mike refer to this supposed "tar" flavor in a couple other posts, and I think what he's getting at is a slightly bitter, roasted character imparted by the darker malts used in various porters and stouts. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else refer to it as "tar," however. Anyway, many quality porters have a slightly sweeter, caramel/molasses flavor to them that is not present in traditional dry Irish stouts. Sure, these flavors come through more in the "big" stouts (ie. imperial stouts, milk stouts, oatmeal stouts, etc.), but not the drier versions of the style. Mon Feb 26 18:46:09 -0800 2007 2328491 60435 braineater 6 2336606 Tar is a frequently mentioned flavor and nose component of stouts and porters. It's nothing I came up with.... Your explanation of the source of this essence is probably right on... BTW, "tar" is not a perjorative as it's used for these beers. It definitely refers to a deep, smoky, 'ultra-stout' (i.e. "tarry" type taste note)... also in the better brews it will be but one of several impressions. Others being: chocolate, cherry, etc.... Wed Feb 28 01:38:56 -0800 2007 2332283 42549 Chicago Mike 7 2338104 I guess I just haven't seen people use the term "tar" much, but rather adjectives like roasted, toasted, carbon, etc. I didn't think you were using it in a negative manner, but wanted to point out where this term might be coming from, for those who might have been under that impression. Wed Feb 28 11:42:53 -0800 2007 2336606 60435 braineater 7 2338952 reply to chicgaomike -- ok, good to know! (for some reason when i saw the word 'tar' i thought of the smell of burning rubber or a road getting paved - not something i'd like in a beer) ;) ;) ;) also has anyone had a norwegian nogne brown ale? it could easily pass for a porter - VERY tasty! Wed Feb 28 14:50:08 -0800 2007 2336606 51618 hitachino 1 2330183 yknow, for chocolate flavors there is nothing better than Young's double chocolate stout. am i wrong? Mon Feb 26 10:00:59 -0800 2007 2324513 42755 ben61820 2 2332297 I don't enjoy Young's Double Chocolate Stout at all. It has a really unpleasant, cloying sweetness to it. As chocolate stouts go, Rogue Chocolate Stout is much more enjoyable, though I can still only really drink one in any given sitting. I tend to find the chocolate flavors in beers such as Stoudt's Fat Dog Imperial Oatmeal Stout much more enjoyable, and worthy of repeated sampling. Mon Feb 26 18:50:01 -0800 2007 2330183 60435 braineater 1 2340129 How about a Yuengling Original Black & Tan? If I recall, they blend Yuengling premium and Porter to make this Black & Tan. Though for a while, they were brewing this stuff up at the old Stroh's brewery in Allentown as a single brew. In any case, I always thought it was quite drinkable. http://www.yuengling.com/beers_black_tan.htm Wed Feb 28 20:38:00 -0800 2007 2324513 57095 Greg P. 2 2344632 I don't mind it, although I have always suspected that this is a clever marketing trick to move the oft-reviled Premium along with the good but not so popular Porter. :-) Fri Mar 02 06:36:30 -0800 2007 2340129 69452 jzerocsk 2 2398490 I've always enjoyed it but I have never seen it on tap in Florida. Only bottles. I first had it in Allentown when visiting my daughter at Mulhenburg College. Sun Mar 18 19:46:00 -0700 2007 2340129 12473 Wineman 1 2341951 Dogfish Head Chicory Stout & Dogfish Head 90 min IPA.. Awesome. Thu Mar 01 11:23:22 -0800 2007 2324513 64159 Faraway11 1 2457591 Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout and Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat Ale (seasonal). We've been enjoying that mix quite a lot around here! Fri Apr 06 12:09:36 -0700 2007 2324513 89255 kelle