368336 Tue Feb 06 15:32:37 -0800 2007 11 34 Wine 0 2266259 Although I've tried to figure out what this term means as it relates to Pinot Noir, I am not entirely certain. More full bodied? If this is correct, how exactly do they do this? I am trying to pair a chees to a "well extracted" Pinot Noir and it would help if I knew what that meant. Also, is this a good thing, or something CA does akin to oaking their whites? Tue Feb 06 15:32:37 -0800 2007 11225 rabaja 1 2266437 It generally means the juice sits longer on the skins and pulp before being racked, and yes, it results in a fuller-bodied wine. It's not cheating, but to my taste it's taken too far too often these days in the name of producing bigger, chewier Robert Parker-style wines. I prefer the lighter style in medium-bodied reds, which can have just as much flavor and seem more refined. Tue Feb 06 16:28:06 -0800 2007 2266259 23430 Mr. Cookie 2 2278342 Very good description. Yes, the wines can exhibit extreme fruit-forward characteristics, and are a little less likely to age as well as a Burgundian-style PN. They can, however, be very nice in their youth. The downside with heavy extraction is that PNs can taste more like Zins, or Cabs, of that style, than pure PNs. I have found that I like them all, provided that they are well-done. Years ago, UC Davis espoused the merits of extreme extraction for PNs. Robert Mondavi tried this, as he wanted to do a PN. The results were terrible. The wines were so tannic, that 25 years later, they were still unapproachable. He gave up and didn't touch PNs for many, many years. Hunt Fri Feb 09 21:40:10 -0800 2007 2266437 11329 Bill Hunt 1 2266539 I've never heard the specific term "well extracted." However, some wineries will measure the amount of "dry extract" in wine. Extract can refer to weight, but it may be best to think of it as a blend of weight on the palate and intensity of flavor/character. You can have a light-bodied wine that is over-extracted; you can have a full-bodied wine that is under-extracted. And you can have both that are just right . . . . An over-extracted wine will often show itself to be "bigger" and "chewier" as "Mr. Cookie" describes above, and the tannins will be harder and more harsh, more drying on the palate. Tue Feb 06 17:00:22 -0800 2007 2266259 28122 zin1953 1 2278666 I think that Mr. Cookie gave a good description. It is very much the style of the CA PNs from the new young lions who are making wine in the Santa Rita area. I happen to enjoy that style as much as I like the ligher, more Burgandian style of PNs, but it is not to everyone's taste. However, I do not find them to be necessarily more tannic. It depends a lot on the winemaker. If you can find some wines by Brian Loring (Loring Wine Co.) , Andrew Vingiello (A.P. Vin) or David Dain (Dain Wines) they are good examples of the style. However, they are made in very small quantities. For the most part the "highly extracted" are more expensive than the normal high quantity PN. They are also much more likely to be associated with single vineyard PNs such as wines from Gary's, Amber Ridge, Pisoni, and Rosella's vineyards to name a few. Sat Feb 10 05:21:08 -0800 2007 2266259 11814 dinwiddie 2 2278848 As I enjoy well-made PNs of nearly all styles, I appreciate the names that you list, from the Santa Rita Hills area. I am unfamiliar with any of those three, but hope to rectify that soon, even if I have to wait until an upcoming trip to Santa Barbara, to do so. Thanks, Hunt Sat Feb 10 07:26:29 -0800 2007 2278666 11329 Bill Hunt 2 2279292 A winemaking friend advised that some of the producers of heavily extracted styles of Central Coast PN fessed up at the Steamboat technical conference to blending in Syrah, something we've long suspected. Sat Feb 10 10:43:46 -0800 2007 2278666 10039 Melanie Wong 3 2289911 Hmmmm. Very interesting, and by interesting of course I mean downright diabolical!!! =) Seriously, this isn't too hard to believe, as not long ago I ordered a glass of Cali PN at a restaurant and one glance at the hue told of something odd. I know that some highly extracted CA Pinot's can get pretty dark and brawny, but this was like, opaque inky purple. Merlot purple. And the taste although exhibiting *some* distant pinot character seemed a bit schizophrenic. I had to ask for a look at the bottle, and it did say "Pinot Noir". I wish I remembered who made it! If they want to play around, that's fine. It's human nature to try the new. But if it makes it to the shelves, please just let us know if it's a "Pinot Noir" or a "Pinorah" or even a 'Pinolot". Is that too much to ask? Tue Feb 13 15:42:20 -0800 2007 2279292 74090 P B and J ason 4 2290158 Pinot-as-Syrah is something increasingly common in California. Can't tell your PaS from your PN without a scorecard . . . . Tue Feb 13 16:58:19 -0800 2007 2289911 28122 zin1953 1 2279049 "Extracted" = concentrated, more or less. "Well extracted" is an odd phrase. "Heavily extracted" or, if you don't like hedonistic fruit bombs, "overly extracted" are more common. Sat Feb 10 09:06:39 -0800 2007 2266259 11369 Robert Lauriston 1 2289647 Dinwiddle gave some good information. I was a big fan of Loring's 2003's, which I found to be"heavily extracted" and hence lush and flavorful...not everyone's cup of tea when it comes to PN's. His 2004's were not as extracted but more balanced...also very nice wines. His 2005's will be disappointing to those fans of his and many others who prefer "big" pinots. I found his wines for both his own eponymous label and Pali wines which he makes to be light and thin... Tue Feb 13 14:36:10 -0800 2007 2266259 73670 El Stevo 2 2290156 I, of course, had just the opposite experience -- appreciating Brian's 2003s for being well-crafted wines, but not liking them personally. The 2004s were a bit better, but . . . . Tue Feb 13 16:57:35 -0800 2007 2289647 28122 zin1953