Hot Sour Salty Sweet: fish and seafood/ poultry

[redwood2bay]

February 2007 Cookbook of the Month: Hot Sour Salty Sweet by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid. Please post your full-length reviews of recipes from the sections fish and seafood and on poultry here. Please mention the name of the recipe you are reviewing as well as any modifications you made to the recipe.

A reminder that the verbatim copying of recipes to the boards is violation of the copyright of the original author. Posts with copied recipes will be removed.

Thanks for participating.

[MMRuth]

Minced chicken with Fresh Herbs (lab gai – Northern and Northeast Thailand, Laos), p. 196 – I used ground chicken, a combination of mint and coriander leavers, and Roasted Rice Powder. Instead of serving it as suggested, I served it as part of a first course with small butter lettuce leaves – we put the chicken in the lettuce, rolled up a bit and dipped in the sauces.

Rice Paper Roll-ups with Shrimp and Herbs (goi cuan – Vietnam – Cambodia), p. 177 – what I think of as “summer rolls” – I’d made these before, so it wasn’t as fiddly as I remember it being the first time. I used the grated carrot tossed w/ sugar/rice vinegar, and regular chives. (made 1/2 recipe). I made both recommended sauces and served w/the lettuce/herb salad plate on p. 68.

Spicy Fish Curry with Coconut Milk (pa sousi naeng – Laos, Northeast Thailand) p.182 – I used tilapia and peanut oil, canned coconut milk – didn’t bother with the thicker thinner business, and ended up using a bit more than called for but not much more, since the recipe says that this is a curry with relatively little sauce. Served with aromatic jasmine rice.

[oakjoan]

I made the Grilled Chicken With Hot and Sweet Dipping Sauce (p. 199), with a number of alterations due to weather and ingredients on hand.

I used boneless chicken thighs and breasts from a giant Costco pack. I had no coriander root and so used some fresh coriander and some dried pods for the Pepper-Coriander Root Flavor Paste (p. 184). The paste is great-tasting (even my bastardized version). It has garlic, the coriander root, black peppercorns and and Thai fish sauce. I rubbed that all over my chicken pieces and let them sit for about an hour.

Since it was pouring rain outside, I dipped them in a bit of cornstarch and fried them in a wok. Served with the hot and sweet dipping sauce which is quite simple to make. Rice vinegar, sugar, garlic, salt and dried pepper flakes. I am quite sensitive to pepper flakes and usually have a sneezing fit whenever I use them. Therefore, I used some chili paste I had in the fridge. I used some of the dipping sauce as is and added some chopped red preserved ginger to another cup of it. Both were fab.

I got lots of carrots and broc. in my CSA box Friday, and so wanted a salad using them. Found a really nice salad in a Madhur Jaffrey book called "Far Eastern Cookery". It's called Kohlrabi or Broccoli Stem Salad. You shave off the tough skin of the broc stem and then slice into matchsticks. Also make matchsticks with carrots. Toss the whole thing with a dressing made of white vinegar, dash of sugar, chopped mint leaves and cilantro leaves, a hot chili (I used a tiny green Thai chili) and top with roasted peanuts. I blanched the broc. flowerets and mixed them into the salad after they cooled.

This turned out to be a great companion to the chicken.

[Rubee]

Spicy Fish Curry with Coconut Milk (pa sousi naeng – Laos, Northeast Thailand) p.182

I'm glad MMRuth made this, and gave me the idea! It's one of my favorite recipes so far, really very good. Made the spice paste (salt, dried chiles, scallions, and shallots) in a mortar, and then browned tilapia in a pan with oil. Used the thicker coconut milk from the top of the can first, added the spice paste, and then for the third step decided to add almost all the thinner coconut milk that was left in the can (recipe calls for 1/2 cup). Add fish, lime leaves, and scallions and let warm through. Garnish with minced scallions and chopped cilantro. The extra coconut milk resulted in plenty of sauce. We both really liked this - great flavors with a medium amount of heat, the fish was moist, and the fresh garnishes topped it off. I served it with steamed Thai jasmine rice.

[daily_unadventures]

I also made the Spicy Fish Curry thanks to MMRuth tonight and was very impressed. I actually used a whole can of coconut milk to make my a little saucier and really liked it. The only criticism my boyfriend had was that I didn't make more!

[Rubee]

Re-posting pic:

[beetlebug]

Aromatic Steamed Fish Curry (pg. 180)

This was excellent but not at all what I expected. From the description, I thought the dish would be creamy and the fish would be blended in with the sauce. Also, there really isn't a "curry" flavor at all. But, this was luscious.

I minced, in a food processor, shallots, lemongrass and coriander roots. I added softened dried chilies, the water it had been soaking in and lime juice. This watery paste went over 1.5 lbs of catfish, that had been cut into 1 inch pieces. Lastly, I added scallions on top and mixed everything up. I didn't have basil or thai basil so I omitted that ingredient.

The fish dish is steamed for about 40 minutes. I ran into some difficulties with this step. My bamboo steamers are on the short side, consequently, I couldn't find any bowls that fit properly. I also needed to layers of steamers. I rigged up the steamers with bowls and placed the whole thing into a pasta steamer. It worked ok but I couldn't switch the layers.

Regardless, it was great. The catfish worked well and the flavors of the sauce went beautifully with rice.

[mirage]

I don't know if I ever would have made this, but for your report. I would not have expected the fish to be quite as flavorful as it was. I used my mortar to pound the shallots, etc., and did not have coriander roots so used cilantro stems as oakjoan suggested above. Forgot the scallion garnish, which would have zipped up its rather bland appearance, but I wanted to drink the sauce.

[beetlebug]

I think it tasted better the second day. The flavors intensified and the fish softened up even more. Glad you liked it. I can't wait to try it with the thai basil in it. I think that will really add to the flavor.

[JoanN]

I liked this, but not quite as much as you. I made it as directed, except that I forgot to add the Thai basil. I had it, just forgot to add it. So I shredded some and stirred it in, but only after it was cooked. I agree with everything you said, beetlebug, except for the “great” part. I thought it was a wonderful blend of flavors, the catfish held up much better than I expected, and the sauce was indeed terrific with the rice. But it lacked that Wow! factor for me. Looking forward to the leftovers, though.

The first photo is of the dishes in the wok. I was concerned that the rice dishes I used might be too deep, but I guess not since the timing was spot-on.

[MMRuth]

I see that I never posted about a fish dish that I love from this book - I don't have it in front of me, but it is on a left page, and has an herb mixture that gets stuffed into slits in a whole fish. There is a photo.

I just used up a bunch of Thai Basil in some Vietnamese dishes - will report tomorrow.

[JoanN]

Must be the Baked Bass with Spicy Rub on page 184? Looks right up my alley. It uses a spice paste of black peppercorns, garlic, and coriander roots. Did you use banana leaves or the foil? Thanks for the heads up. Will have to get some lemongrass stalks (have only chopped frozen lemongrass) and give it a try.

[MMRuth]

Yes, that's it. And I used foil.

[JoanN]

Baked Bass with Spicy Rub (page 184)

So glad you mentioned this MMRuth since it wasn’t on my to-try list and is, by a long shot, my favorite recipe from the book so far. (Damn good thing, too, since I can now honestly and enthusiastically praise something to the friends who gave me the book!)

You make a Peppercorn-Coriander Root Flavor Paste with peppercorns, garlic, coriander roots and fish sauce and stuff the paste into slits in the sides of the whole fish smearing the remainder of the paste in the cavity. The cavity is then filled with smashed lemongrass, the fish is wrapped in banana leaves and foil, and baked for 30 to 40 minutes.

I couldn’t easily find banana leaves, but would very much like to try this recipe with them. I think it would not only contribute to the flavor of the fish but would make for a neater presentation since the fish skin stuck somewhat to the foil. The flavor paste can be made either in a small blender or in a mortar and pestle. I used the former to get it halfway there and then transferred it to the latter. I’ve just gotta get a new mortar and pestle. Mine is too small to do just about anything, so some of the peppercorns were still in large chunks and not pleasant to bite into. I might just grind the peppercorns instead the next time I try it.

It was an excellent balance of lemony, garlicky, and spicy and it really worked well with such a mild-flavored fish. This is one recipe from the book I’d definitely consider making again.

[MMRuth]

Oh good - I did remember it as a dish I liked, and will have to make it again.

[Caitlin McGrath]

For future reference, in the past I've seen frozen banana leaves at Western Beef at 14th St. and 9th Ave., near Chelsea Market. (They stock lots of Latin American ingredients.)

[JoanN]

Glad you mentioned that. I tend to forget there's a Western Beef up here by me @ 63rd and WEA. I'll have to take a little walk and see if they have them there as well. Could save me a trip downtown.

[beetlebug]

I wonder if I would still like this dish as much if I made it today. When HSSS was COTM, I hadn't done that much SE Asian cooking. Since then, after cooking with Nguyen/Pham, when I revisited HSSS, I wasn't as wowed with my results. While tasty, there is something just a shade off about the recipes, as if they were missing some minor ingredient that would lead to a more satisfying ending.

What I'm trying to say is quite hard to articulate. But, it's like HSSS is just a shade hair off of being a truly authentic tasting cookbook. That's the best way I can describe now.

[JoanN]

Only two recipes so far, but I'm beginning to be afraid you're absolutely right. I have the ingredients on hand for two more and want to try the Baked Bass MMRuth referenced above. But if none comes up to the level of Nguyen (and that copy of Pham that Pitu is going to make me buy), that might be it for HSSS.

[LulusMom]

JoanN, I hate that you're having such ho-hum results. I have the book and have been meaning to cook from it, but with your recent forays (and beetlebug's thinking about how it compares to the wonderful Vietnamese month), I have moved the book from my kitchen bookshelf to another room. Another bad result and it goes a room further (and perhaps the used bookstore next)!

[MMRuth]

I think it's an interesting point as well ... I haven't cooked from HSSS for quite a while. I remember liking:

Chang Mai Curry Noodles (Thailand)
Pomelo Salad (Cambodia)
Spicy Cucumber Salad (Yunnan)
Grilled Egpplang Salad (Thailand/Laos) - this was excellent, and I may make it again soon.
Thai Fried Rice - but I add a little catsup, bacon, and charred tomatoes
(Best Eggplant Dish Ever - I did not think it was)
Rice Paper Roll Ups with Shrimp and Herbs - I still like their recipe, though I sometimes cook pork shoulder as well, using one of the Viet books. I do like the Pham nuoc cham better.
Vietnames Grilled Pork Balls
Classic Vietnamese Spring Rolls (haven't tried any recipes from the Viet books)

[LulusMom]

How does the grilled eggplant salad compare to the one in Pham? I'm guessing you like this one better since you're saying you may make it again. I really loved the Pham one, but if you say this one is better, I'll pull the book out and try it.

[MMRuth]

I love the Pham one too - the one on p. 91? This one doesn't have the same smokey flavour, since, if I recall correctly, you grill the slices of eggplant. And, I think it is spicier.

[JoanN]

Well, that's good to hear. Made the meat paste for the Grilled Pork Rolls thiis morning before I left for the day, so that's definitely on the menu for tomorrow. And have the ingredients for the Vietnamese Spring Rolls for later in the week. I'll bet I read your originnal reports and that's why I had these recipes marked. :->

[pitu]

If you had to make something from HSSS for a 20 person dinner potluck - a side dish, app or main - what would you make? Extra points for vegetarian, tasting great at room temp, and no prep at the destination.
Spicy Cucumber Salad?

(I don't *have* to make something from HSSS, but thought it would be a good opportunity to try some stuff out on an appreciate adventurous-eating crowd)

thx!
p.s. that bass with spicy rub is totally on my radar. think it'd work with king fish?

[JoanN]

I’ve only made four recipes from the book so far, but nothing I’ve made would meet your requirements. Not fromm HSSS, but I really like the Cucumber and Shrimp Salad from “Into the Vietnamese Kitchen” and have served it to company a couple of times You could always serve the shrimp and chicken and pork slivers on the side for those who might not want it. Everything can be prepped in advance and just tossed together at the destination. My guests have all liked it, especially when served with fried shrimp chips for scooping up the salad.

Don’t know what kingfish tastes like, but I’d say that as long as it’s a somewhat mild fish you’d be fine.

[pitu]

Stir-fried Fish with Ginger p. 183
Khmer stir fry, ginger matchsticked and used as a veg, and fish cut into little sushi sized pieces for stir fry...this is going into regular rotation in the strongly flavored/simple/delicious category. Usual cast (ginger, shallots, scallions, fish sauce, sugar, lime) combined slightly differently than I usually (steamed ginger fish from Mai Pham's book Pleasure of The Vietnamese Kitch)

I used frozen mahi-mahi, and omited the teaspoon of salt, to taste. If I had fresh cilantro, I would have added a few bits of green.

I didn't have this book two years ago when it was COTM . . .
: )

[JoanN]

Vietnamese Chicken Salad with Rau Ram (page 197)

Hey, Pitu! Great to see you here. I was out of the country when HSSS was COTM and just received the book as a gift a couple of months ago. I picked up a bunch of ingredients and hope to finally get into it now.

For this main course salad, you shred poached chicken breasts and combine them with scalded bean sprouts, shredded cabbage, and shredded rau ram. The dressing is lime juice, fish sauce, rice vinegar, sugar, garlic, chiles, and shallot rings allowed to meld for half an hour. Pour dressing over chicken and veggies, toss, and serve. They say it’s traditionally served with fried shrimp chips but that they prefer rice or noodles. Really couldn’t see this with either rice or noodles, so I made the shrimp chips.

I liked this, but nowhere near as much as I liked the somewhat similar Cucumber and Shrimp Salad from “Into the Vietnamese Kitchen.” If I want something like this, and I’m sure I will during the summer, I’ll be making that one again instead of this.

[oakjoan]

Haven't thought of shrimp chips for a while. I first had them years ago in The Hague where a friend of my mother's made them to accompany an Indonesian meal she brought home for a take-out place. I was amazed. They looked terrible to me, like plastic foam in pastel colors.

The neatest part was that the take-out place put all the dishes in covered pans and stacked them in an aluminum carrier so they'd keep hot until you got home. You were expected to bring them back the next day. Yeah, like that'd ever happen here. They were Green when it hadn't been invented yet.

Salad sounds like one I'd like to try.

[JoanN]

Those styrofoam crackers in pastel colors are something else entirely. There was a long discussion about them here http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/5538... when I first made the Cucumber and Shrimp Salad from ItVK.

[MMRuth]

I still have to use my real shrimp crackers, but I have to confess to liking the styrofoam ones as well!

[pitu]

LOVE doing this with comparisons to ITVK and PotVK . . . very useful. I'd like to cook from all three books more often.
: )

[JoanN]

I never bought PotVK. I vaguely recall a number of people saying they preferred the Pham to the Nguyen, but I just didn't feel the need to own both and am no longer sure why I chose Nguyen. So I'll rely on you for the PotVK comparisons.

[pitu]

I think *you* made me buy Nguyen.
And I shall make you buy Pham, eventually
(just kidding, but it really is my favorite)

Although every time I see a cheap copy of PotVK at the Strand I buy it and give it to someone with a basket of fish sauce and rice noodles -- my favorite housewarming gift. Maybe if I stop doing that, you can get one.

[JoanN]

Didn't see it last time I was there (looking, coincidentally, for "Revolutionary Chinese Cooking," which I didn't buy either). Next time I plan to go, I'll check and make sure you haven't been there before me.