Best Box Wine?

[akp]

I absolutely love the idea of having a box of Cabernet Sauvignon and Pinot Grigio in the fridge at all times. (If you want to have a glass but not open a bottle (or when you want another glass after the bottle is gone), for cooking...)

Which ones are the best?

I've tried the Black Box Cab, which was pretty good, and the Trove Cab, which is not so good...

Thanks!

[zack]

give delicato a try

with box wines, there's no need to keep it in the fridge after opening to reduce oxidation.

[zin1953]

(sigh)

[Doug Mc.]

you're kidding, right

[akp]

Why would I be kidding?

[zin1953]

Because in the US, the short answer is: "there isn't any." The image of "box wine" is cheap, insipid plonk that's one step above dreck.

That said, however, there are some "good" box wines made, and some are just starting to appear (within the last year or two). One example is Black Box. There is also some Macon available -- the name of which escapes me at the moment -- coming in, and some offerings from Australia.

I've heard that he Macon is surprisingly good, but none of the wines I've sampled have been more than "good." In other words, none have been exceptional, or captured my interest beyond the initial taste.

[JoLi]

I don't think the OP mentioned boxed wine being exceptional.

[zin1953]

No, but neither would the OP wish to have something that isn't very good. And, as the rest of the sentence says, "none have been exceptional, OR captured my interest beyond the initial taste."

[southernitalian]

Sorry to offend but my swim club does not allow any glass on the premises. If my friends and I decide to go down after work and relax with a glass of wine, I refuse to be embarrassed by bringing a box of wine.

[BaileysMom521]

You could prop the box up on the table and lay under it in the chaise and just let it drip :) Or grab a straw and make it like a giant juice box.
At least, that's what I'd do...

[Liz vermaas]

Oh don't you just love the idea!!! On a hot northern night!!! I just about died with laughter..so much that I'll just have to race out, buy me a 'cask' as we Aussies call it (even tho it is now passe to admit to buying such in this form)..but I'll keep away from the Lambrusco casks in the interest of "good taste" and stick to the small better quality 2 litre jobs... might even go for a rose, seeing as we are sinking (on the divan) to new low heights(or levels)....while my son is sucking at his Fishrock, I will indulge....

[zin1953]

Why would this offend?

[chickstein]

Awhile ago, I tried the Wine Block. It was pretty good as far as box wine goes. Give it a try. It is made by Jess Jackson.

[Abacus]

I've heard Hardy's is decent.

[Robert Lauriston]

There's no practical reason they couldn't sell good wine in a box, and in other countries they do, but I have yet to taste one here that I'd buy twice.

[potatoe]

i love the litttle juice boxes they serve at the front porch in sf, with bendy straws. it's a pinot grigio from three thieves, produced by joel gott, i think.

[BaileysMom521]

Three Thieves makes a GREAT Pinot Noir.

[Foodandwine]

and the little jug is a fun way to sip out of the bottle..

[Robert Lauriston]

Three Thieves uses milk-carton-style boxes rather than bag-in-box, so the wine oxidizes just like a bottle. And they don't sell their pinot noir in boxes anyway, only in jugs.

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/Sto...

[BaileysMom521]

Can't ship alcohol in MA. I lose :( Just gotta hunt for it. I find it sometimes few and far between.

[mac8111]

Correct. The Three Thieves Bandit comes in Pinot Grigio, Cabernet, and now unoaked Chardonnay. These are 1liter tetra packs (like your chicken broth comes in). They also now have 250ml juice box looking single servings that are really cool to sip on at an outdoors/no glass type of event. I call it an adult juice box.

[swirlwineevents]

I bought the D-Tour Cotes du Rhone box (or cannister, actually). It is the Daniel Boulud - Daniel Johnnes - Dominique Lafon venture. They also produced a Macon-Villages that I have tasted but have not purchased since it is currently not available until spring. The cannister is vacuum-packed, has a pretty reasonably manageable spigot (fairly drip-free too). The cannister is the equivalent of 4 bottles of wine and it cost $33 and sat nicely on the counter. It was not the best CDR Id ever had but it also was far from the worst...simply, it was a good wine with a very good value to pour and sip after playing basketball or for a weeknight dinner accompaniment or to drink while watching TV. I'll buy the Macon when it comes out. I dont need every wine I have to be exceptional.

Hank

[Robert Lauriston]

That's very interesting. Sounds like exactly what I've been hoping for. Not necessarily a lower price than similar wine by the bottle, but for drinking by the glass over a few weeks, it greatly reduces the oxidation problem.

It's the same technology as bag-in-a-box except that instead of a box it has a cardboard cylinder. It's the bag rather than the cylinder that's "vacuum-sealed" (i.e. there's no air in the bag).

Unfortunately DTOUR wines seem to be available only in NY, New Jersey, and Maryland at the moment.

[zin1953]

THAT'S the Macon I mentioned above! Thanks -- I couldn't remember the name of it.

[pitu]

(le sigh)
I found the design of that D-Tour Cotes du Rhone cannister to be brilliant, but the wine pretty awful. It turned after a couple weeks...and nobody liked it enough to drink it before that. bummer. I was hoping for a decent picnic wine.
The D-Tour chardonnay was wildly convenient to have around for cooking, and not terrible (chardonnay is *not* my thing)

We also opened a box of red Bandit (in purple box)
It made my teeth hurt, and I put it down the drain.
I'm cured of the box wine fantasy. ; )

[bob192]

In Manhattan, at Astor, the Cuvee de Pena is a pretty decent box of red from south of France. I make spritzers from the Banrock Station box chardonnay, and shiraz, about 1/2 wine, 1/2 soda water, and ice, more refreshing than yet another Bud.

[chickstein]

I used to LOVE Cuvee de Pena. for years it was a VERY good bottle of wine. When did they put it in a box? Is it still really good?

[Chazz77]

I have been doing box wine flights for a month now. First, there are many many more expensive bottles that could be considered as rotgut compared to some of the boxed wine I have had. The first rule of thumb I've found is stay away from anything over 3 liters; the equivalent of $0.69 a bottle should be your first clue. With that said, I love Fish Eye Shiraz, very jammy. Others I recommend are Killer Juice Cabernet, Hardy's Shiraz, Black Box Cabernet. I am still on my quest for the best, but Fish Eye is very enjoyable. Biggest disappointment? La Faux Frog.

[pie22]

i've had the killer juice merlot - it's not bad at all.

[BarmyFotheringayPhipps]

akp, I support your desire not to let pretentious snobbery get in the way of having a decent cheap wine around the house. However, as Zack points out, there's no need to refrigerate the box: what we do is keep it in a dark, cool spot in the mudroom (or, in summer, down in the basement next to the wine rack), which keeps the wine just cool enough to enjoy without having to take the refrigerator chill off.

Hardy's and Banrock Station are different labels from the same Australian company, and I recommend them both for what you're looking for: a decent everyday wine for a casual glass or for cooking. No, these are not mindblowing wines, and yes, the wine snobs in your life will shun you for enjoying them, but personally, I think that alone makes them worthwhile, since life without wine snobs is roughly 100% better than life with.

[Suzie]

Washington Hills makes a pretty good one. The Merlot is the only one I have tried.

[knowspicker]

I'm not a fan of the Washington Hill merlot but I do like their Rainier Red.

[jules127]

There is great organic boxed wine from France that I bought last summer. I will try to find out the name of it, and yes it was good. I bought it from a cheese shop in my neighborhood that carries a lot of organic wine/beer and imported items.

[bogie]

Botter from Italy makes good boxes from Pinot Grigio, Sangiovese, Nero D'Avola.

[Robert Lauriston]

I tasted several high-quality 3L boxed wines at a food festival in Bordeaux last month. Now if someone would just import them.

I asked the bartender what they called them, he said "Beeb." "Beeb?" "Oui, est anglais. 'Bag In Box.'"

photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.la...

[maria lorraine]

akp,

Just read your post for the third time, and I'd like you to consider that there are several ways to meet your wine needs that don't involve a box.

If it's price or value that draws you to box wines, then you can find those same prices in a bottle of wine. If it's that the wine doesn't go bad quickly, simply buy a canister of Private Preserve and keep your bottle fresh that way. Very easy to use. If you always want a cold wine on hand, just keep your fridge stocked.

But the real bonus for you if you don't limit yourself to a certain container is...flavor and an abundance of possibilities.

I was quite intrigued to read about the Macon canister (4 bottles worth) at $33, but that boxed wine is certainly the exception currently. Almost all of them are dreck, plonk, drain cleaner, etc. You can find everything you need -- and more flavor -- in a bottle.

[Robert Lauriston]

Gassing leftover wine in bottles does not keep the wine nearly as fresh as excluding oxygen entirely with a bag-in-box.

[maria lorraine]

Yes (sigh) you are factually correct.. But practically -- in terms of the real experience of enjoying a bottle of wine over two or three evenings -- the difference is negligible. ATP enjoys a couple of glasses of wine, gasses the bottle, another day enjoys another couple of glasses and re-gasses, till the five+ glasses in the bottle are consumed. Quite a small price to pay in light of the overall far greater flavor experience ATP can have by drinking wine from a bottle.

[maria lorraine]

Oops, sorry, A -- *K* -- P. You already have ATP in your engine and in your cells.

[Robert Lauriston]

Gassing, to my palate, never tastes great the second day.

I just brought a 3L box of Cotes de Bourg back from France, and after a week each glass still tastes like it's from a freshly opened bottle.

Drank some with a friend who works for an importer, he told me that they've been trying to bring in some quality French bag-in-box wines, but the post-9/11 paperwork is a bottleneck.

[jasmurph]

Has anyone tried the La Petite Frog box? It's Picpoul from a Languedoc coop. Maybe not the MOST exciting varietal, but a pretty nice summer white, and I could imagine it being much better than a heavily processed Chard.

[Vinny Barbaresco]

The only box of wine that interests me is the cardboard box or wooden crate that holds 6 or 12 glass bottles with real corks...perhaps a 12 pack of Clos de la Roche or the like.

[hungry_pangolin]

For white wines, there is a growing number of decent quality available in screw tops, especially from NZ and Australia, which will give you a fair range at a decent price in packaging that keeps the wine fresh. For reds, there are fewer available with screw caps (that is changing), but they are almost excusively from NZ and OZ, and they aren't good value. I just recork my bottle and stick it in the fridge. Granted, on Day 2 it's not as good as on Day 1, but it's still better than any of the boxed wines I've tasted. That might change over time, but currently... a moi la bouteille!

[anewton]

I wonder if the boxed wine fad is in its infancy yet a sign of things to come? Look at screwcaps. 10 years ago, no serious winemaker would have considered using them. Now they're the flavour de jour, and even old world winemakers are starting to use screw-tops rather than real cork.

Who knows? In ten years we might see $30 California Cabs and $80 Bordeaux in boxes. I doubt it, but one factor to consider is that tetrapacks are easy to recycle now (perhaps moreso than glass?)

[maria lorraine]

Now that corks have been revealed not to be the problem in cork taint, maybe the new wave is a return to corks. Anything is possible.

[Robert Lauriston]

Screwcaps avoid some problems with corks, but they don't do a better job of keeping opened bottles fresh.

[Robert Lauriston]

Took several European box wines on a camping trip (figured it would save a lot of weight):

Seeberger Pfalz Riesling ($13.99 3L = $3.50 750ml): simple but varietally correct, refreshing, slightly off-dry so some disliked it; very good value compared with bottled counterparts

La Petite Frog Picpoul de Pinet ($30 3L = $7.50 750ml): light and refreshing, crowd pleaser (finished first), could get more interesting wine in a bottle in that price range

Grand Veneur Cotes du Rhone ($60 5L = $9.00 750ml): bit bland as CdRs go but we drank it all; would not be easy to find a better CdR in a bottle for that price

"Angel Juice" Pinot Grigio Delle Venezie ($22.99 3L = $5.75 750ml): oxidized and nasty; would have returned it to the store but my friends poured it down the sink

[Robert Lauriston]

Question from the SF board: do all European wines come in a shiny silver (mylar?) rather than transparent bag?

Definitely not, of those four I think only the Cotes du Rhone came in a mylar bag. Could be standard for reds, I dunno.

[jasmurph]

Was the picpoul a not so interesting wine or a not so interesting picpoul? I ask because I like Picpoul for all the reason you said, but do not think it's ever particularly interesting. I'd love to hear what wines you think are interesting at that price.

[Robert Lauriston]

It was good for a Picpoul. In that price range I favor sauvignon blanc (currently have some Quincy in the cellar) and relatively obscure European wines (currently have some Abymes and some Hungarian chardonnay).

[mamaciita]

For practical purposes, I've brought home lots o' box wine in the last year. If nothing else, I feel better having emptied the container rather than having poured its contents down the drain (after I'd cleaned around it for several weeks out of guilt).

Often it's just me and two small children at dinner time, and I won't open a bottle if I just want a glass with dinner. On the other hand, if I open a bottle. . .

I'm happy to have drinkable box wine available at my convenience, especially if I need 1/2 cup for a recipe and I'm not in the mood for a glass myself.

[kcijones001]

I dont think there's such a thing...if you find one, let me know

[davebough]

For an everyday drinking wine, I'm a big fan of the box. I've had some good cotes du rhone. my current everyday red is Rain Dance Shiraz from South Africa.
dave

[Lixer]

There was an interesting article in the Austin Chronicle about boxed wines. They did a double blind taste test and even threw some $15-20 bottle wines in there to shake things up. The results were surprising. The Seeberger riesling mentioned above ($16 for 3L) and a cab ($20 for 3L) came out on top!

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyroba...

[Foodandwine]

Great link.. thank you. I am going to try a box in my second home for the upcomming desert saeson. thanks

[Robert Lauriston]

Picked up a Cordier Ch. les Gravettes 2002 1ere Cotes de Blaye 3L / $3.99 ($1 / 750ml). Bit thin, slight tarriness, drinkable, would make a good base for sangria. Was probably better two years ago (which is probably why it's at Grocery Outlet today).

I'd be very interested in tracking down the current release.

[purple goddess]

I'm lucky enought to live in Australia, where box (or as we call it "cask") wine has been round for years. Nothing beats a good bottle of Yerrin 2002 Cab Sav, but at $75 a bottle, I'll settle for a 2 litre cask for $15. For everyday quaffing, we have some very VERY good casks. Banrock Station, as already mentioned, is very good. Unlike other wineries, It casks the same quality as it bottles... I am currenly in like with their White Shiraz, and as the weather gets warmer, I might just come to love it.

http://www.banrockstation.com/regions.asp

Morris do a very good quality Cab Sav in a cask and also a red called "Pressings", which is arguably the best cask red on the market.

http://www.morriswines.com/redwine.php

De Bortoli do a Gold Seal cask range

http://debortoli.com.au/our-wines/bra...

which has actually won some awards, and is eminently quaffable. I've tried a selection of their wites and reds from this range, and they're all very very good FOR CASK WINE

Ed to add:

I agree with whom ever suggested not buying any cask over 3 litres. I have embarrasing photographic evidence that I recently purchased a 5 litre White Burgundy cask for $11.95.

http://agoddessinthekitchen.blogspot....

piss-weak and worthless. However, all that was available at the deplorable local bottle-o. Next time I'll remember to pick up something worthwile from town.
.

[tcd]

At the moment I'm enjoying Free Range box wines - I think they're Loire or Languedoc in origin. Mourvèdre lives in the fridge and their Merlot on the counter - that last a revelation as I'm not a fan of American merlots. (Their red and white Bordeaux are fine too but not worth the $25/3L I'm paying - the most I've spent for box wines!)

Black Box Cab's quite nice too. I go back and forth on the Shirazes I've had in box (what I've found in local MA wine stores); jammy sure, but somehow not that interesting? Banrock Station, Black Box, Delicato have all found their way to my pantry. Only tried Hardy's riesling and won't ever go there again; no relation to the many wonderful Alsatian and German rieslings I've loved over the years. I'll keep an eye peeled for Seeberger, if it's available here that is.

[knowspicker]

I've tried a few boxes... maybe it's the anti-snob appeal in part ;)

So far the best of the bunch IMO i Tefft Cellar Cabernet/Merlot. It's a WA wine and it tastes like a 10 dollar a bottle wine. I find the taste pretty similar to Hedges CMS [I actually like the Tefft a little more, less "band-aid"]. If you can find it it's not the cheapest or the most expensive but I like it better than Black Box, Trove, Killer Juice, Hardy's, Banrock, 3 Thieves.

Another one that was surpisingly good was Pinot Evil. It's a French pinot noir and it's very drinkable.

Of the Aussies Banrock is probably the best of the boxes... my comparison being Hardy's and Tindindi.

I think Black Box can be pretty good depending on the year/batch. The current Merlot is pretty good. In the past it has been better and not as good.

Tefft is still the hands down winner so far.

[Amelie]

I am always interested in Box wine reviews as each summer I go on 14 day rafting trips on very pristine rivers where glass is unacceptable. Back Box wines have saved the day for me for many years running now. Would I love to find something bettter? Sure. Keep the reviews coming!!!

And before one is so quick to judge, remember we all have different needs for different reasons.

[cherylknecht]

I buy the Wine Cube at Target for $17.99. I only like the Shiraz, so far. It's peppery, dark and fruity and has nice acid. The box is equivalent to 4 bottles so it's a deal and I'd like to think there is less of an eco footprint than buying bottles.
In response to some elitist remarks about wine... I am just happy that I can afford to drink a glass every night. I am a stay-at-home mom (before motherhood I managed a top shelf wine bar in Chicago) and we cannot afford to drink Burgundy every night. I think box wines are an amazing value and the quality will continue to evolve as savvy wine consumers catch on. In my opinion, wine snobbery is at the very opposite end of the spectrum as healthy wine appreciation. It's a drink! It brings people together! It's made from sunshine! If I have to get it from a box sold at Target...so be it. If wine shops sold diapers then maybe I'd buy my wine there! :)

[cavandre]

Here's another vote for the Target wine boxes. We've enjoyed both the Shiraz & the Sauvagion Blanc. We also find "Black Box" Chardonnay very dependable.

[jpeshek]

I like the Target White Table wine as well as the Pino Gris. I also like the Seeberger Riesling, but not a fan of the Black Box wines.