364417 Fri Jan 26 07:21:26 -0800 2007 28 31 Home Cooking 0 2229030 I've seen the discussion string talking about which wines to use for cooking. But, I have more questions pertaining to Vermouth vs. Wine in cooking. I don't usually keep wine in the house (because it never lasts and especially not white). I want something that I could substitute for white wine in cooking. Is the Vermouth the right replacement? Will it keep better once it's opened? How should I store it after opening? How long can I keep it after opening? AND what is the major difference in cooking with Vermouth vs. wine? Fri Jan 26 07:21:26 -0800 2007 65518 calla0413 1 2229047 Vermouth is a dry white wine enhanced with herbs. I prefer French vermouth, Noilly Pratt is what I buy. It will last a very long time if you keep it tightly closed and in a cool dark cupboard. Fri Jan 26 07:27:13 -0800 2007 2229030 10285 Candy 2 2229176 Thanks! That helps a lot. I knew I could count on a fell chowhound to help me out! Fri Jan 26 07:57:11 -0800 2007 2229047 65518 calla0413 2 2229341 Agreed on the Noilly Prat. Its flavor is not diminished by cooking with it. I am not a martini guy so vermouth will last a lot longer in my house than any bottle of white wine possibly would. Keep it stored out of sunlight or in the fridge. Julia Child championed vermouth in many, many of her recipes. I have been tempted to buy a pack of sauvignon blanc in mini-bottles to have handy for cooking but have not done so yet. Fri Jan 26 08:38:43 -0800 2007 2229047 18385 CDouglas 3 4332721 Are you aware that they are changing the Noilly Prat formula to a sweeter product?!? I just read about it in the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154573030469717.html Any suggestions for a different brand? I recall Cooks Illustrated recommending a good inexpensive brand a couple years ago, I want to say it was Gallo but not sure... Fri Jan 16 12:46:41 -0800 2009 2229341 257795 mlle noëlle 4 4333348 THANK YOU for explaining this mystery: I have always used Noilly Prat for cooking. But the last time I bought it, the bottle had changed--I didn't think anything of it at time. When I used it for the first time (in onion soup) it had sort of an odd, sweet aroma. So I tasted some and found it to be very sweet (though, I must admit, tasty--I felt compelled to have a little glass on the rocks with lemon). Strange, I thought, especially since it was labelled "original dry." I looked around at their web site, assuming this was a new product or something, but concluded that the packaging had just changed and that it had ALWAYS been that sweet but I was just not very observant. Good to hear that my powers of observation have not failed. My hope is that this will prove to be a marketing blunder along the lines of New Coke and that they will bring back the drier version in short order. Fri Jan 16 16:41:12 -0800 2009 4332721 123801 zamorski 5 4333441 I thought I saw something about NP people seeing the error of their ways and have already gone back to the original. The bottle I have on hand right now is the original, no change to the label or taste. I guess I will know for sure the next time I purchase. Fri Jan 16 17:28:51 -0800 2009 4333348 10285 Candy 6 4334675 That's too bad about the NP changing. You could also try dry Marsala or sherry. I use them in lieu of wine (IF the recipe isn't picky - of course some recipes really require the right wine). They have shelf life as vermouth. Sat Jan 17 11:37:11 -0800 2009 4333441 42513 Mawrter 7 4334941 Sherry and marsala are good for cooking but they add their own nutty flavour, so I would not consider them interchangable with white wine in most recipes. Sat Jan 17 14:02:32 -0800 2009 4334675 123801 zamorski 8 4346468 Neither do I. That's why I said certain recipes really require the right wine. Wed Jan 21 21:02:31 -0800 2009 4334941 42513 Mawrter 4 4347267 CI recommends Gallo and it works fine. I may have liked NP because it was the vermouth I always used for cooking. A sweeter version would not be the direction I would want to go in the dishes I use it for. Vya may be an alternative to old NP but it looks to be twice as expensive. It may be time to research boxed wines. Thu Jan 22 08:07:32 -0800 2009 4332721 18385 CDouglas 1 2229183 They taste different, but not wildly so. As candy has said, vermouth has herbal flavors added. It also is fortified by adding extra alcohol which helps it to be shelf stable over longer periods. It usually a good sub for white wine in cooking. Remember though, that you can freeze leftover wine for later use (cooking not drinking). You can also buy wine in small individual bottles and in boxes and other sealed containers. Fri Jan 26 07:57:45 -0800 2007 2229030 43893 C. Hamster 1 2229385 I had no idea you could freeze wine. As for the small individual bottles of wine, are they good enough quality to cook with? I've read (someplace called chowhound...you guys know the place?) that you shouldn't cook with anything you're not going to drink. I've tried some of those box white wines, I have to tell ya, they were a waste of good calories. I must have tried the worst ones of the bunch! Fri Jan 26 08:50:07 -0800 2007 2229030 65518 calla0413 2 2229531 The quality of wines available in alternate sizes has improved tremendously in recent years. There are good Australian and New Zealand white out there that make small bottles, like Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc. Fri Jan 26 09:18:15 -0800 2007 2229385 54053 sheriffblalock 2 2229583 Yes, you most certainly should not cook with anything not good enough to drink. However, once drinkable wine has been open a few days and starts to taste a little duller, you can make ice cubes from the leftover wine, which work great in cooking. It sounds very Nigella or Rachel Ray-esque, but I like it nonetheless. Btw, do stores sell wine a lot of wine in smaller quantities than 375 ml? Unless you're having a red wine fix at an airport/museum cafe or Sbarro-esque fast food chain, I fail to see the point of such containers (though I admit those stylish little bottles of Piper Heidsieck are very cute). Fri Jan 26 09:27:47 -0800 2007 2229385 51367 Yaqo Homo 2 2229794 Stone Cellars by Beringer makes wine in 187ml (roughly 6oz.) bottles. In the attached article from 2005 the 187ml bottles had sales of $68 million for the year. Someone is buying and liking them. http://www.helenair.com/articles/2005/11/30/montana/a05113005_04.txt Fri Jan 26 10:13:50 -0800 2007 2229385 18385 CDouglas 1 2229556 True, you should only cook with drinkable wine, but there's no reason to spend $$ on wine you are going to cook with -- particularly WHITE wine. I can't remember brand names off the top of my head, but more and more are bottling in single size servings, and I recall seeing a decent brand in the little bottle recently. RE: boxed wines, many good restaurants use boxed wines to cook with, actually, since they use so much of it and keeps so well. I have no personaly experience with boxed wines but some of my chowish chef friends and excellent home cooks swear by it. I usually have a big bottle of pretty inexpensive dry, unoaked white in the fridge that I both cook with and drink because I am much fussier about red wine and don't want to cook with better white. Wine freezes but most of the time not solidly. I portion it and ziplock it tight. Thaw it completely. Works fine for cooking. Fri Jan 26 09:23:05 -0800 2007 2229030 43893 C. Hamster 1 2229572 vermouth will basically keep forever, and will offer you consistency. something like a nz sauvignon blanc has so much acidity it will be like adding another lemon to the recipe. calla, i have to agree, i've never tried wine out of a bag or a box that i wanted another sip of, never mind to cook with or buy again. ack. Fri Jan 26 09:26:07 -0800 2007 2229030 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2229983 I actually love vermouth in cooking. Esp in gravy, YUM. Some people don't like the flavor, but I love the herby-ness. Fri Jan 26 10:53:49 -0800 2007 2229030 18154 prunefeet 2 2230014 My dressing for turkey and the like would be dull without the vermouth. It makes all of the difference. Fri Jan 26 10:58:32 -0800 2007 2229983 10285 Candy 2 2231922 Me, too. It's also wonderful in cream sauces. Since it's stronger than wine, you should probably start by adding a smaller amount (half, perhaps) and then add more to taste. Fri Jan 26 19:09:14 -0800 2007 2229983 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 2230059 These are all great tips! I guess I need to learn a thing or two about cooking with wine. I've seen vermouth and wine for ingredients for dishes like shrimp scampi and roast beef. So, I want something that'll keep for those other dishes but, I don't have to use it right way. I have my answer now. I'll try vermouth first. If the herby-ness is too much I'll try the white wine. Herby-ness...LOL....I love the words we come up with to describe food/flavors/tastes! I once had someone write that they found a curry dish to be "nice and sturdy". Not exactly the words I've would have chosen but, I certainly understood what they were talking about. Fri Jan 26 11:07:01 -0800 2007 2229030 65518 calla0413 2 2230082 I have a friend who describes some dishes as being "too dense" . I've never understood what she means. She has never explained it well enough to me to get it. Oysters with Mingonette sauce dense? Fri Jan 26 11:12:04 -0800 2007 2230059 10285 Candy 2 2230128 there is an actual word: "herbaceousness". lol. Fri Jan 26 11:20:02 -0800 2007 2230059 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2231898 update: this month's issue of saveur magazine has noilly-pratt vermouth as one of its "top 100". julia child used it, and they provide a lovely classic french recipe for sole cooked in vermouth! Fri Jan 26 19:03:18 -0800 2007 2229030 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2232497 Yes, NP vermouth (and *only* NP; no other vermouths need apply) is a basic cooking staple. I only use another white wine when the recipe is very specific (ie, riesling for coq au riesling), or if I am finishing off an unfinished bottle. Sat Jan 27 04:32:13 -0800 2007 2229030 13819 Karl S 1 3435219 I have to say that is far as cooking goes, boxed wines have come a long way since Franzia. They also stay better than unused bottles with added air each time you use them. I tried the smaller bottles and I haven't found any that aren't crap compared to some of the better boxes. Try Little Black Box. Tue Feb 26 00:41:23 -0800 2008 2229030 169546 Daniella Times Three 2 3435431 I just did a google search for noilly-pratt vermouth and found there is both a sweet and a dry. I am assuming that the dry is the better one for cooking, no? Tue Feb 26 05:35:34 -0800 2008 3435219 152539 Mel.D 3 3435446 I always use the dry one. Tue Feb 26 05:41:15 -0800 2008 3435431 10985 MMRuth