362088 Fri Jan 19 22:40:57 -0800 2007 49 35 Beer 0 2207758 HAs anyone tried out a Hefeweizen from Two Palms? I bought a six pack for this evening and I'm wondering if I should have bothered. While i'm at it anyone got any really good suggestions for decent Wheat Beer's? Nothing is going to top a good glass of Hoegaarden I know, but what alternatives are there? My reading has told me that the two palms is more of the German style of Hefeweizen (hence my hesitation over it) I'm much more parcial to a nice white Belgian style to be honest. Think the best micro brew alternative I'm come across has to be Blue Moon, the Pyramid one isn't to bad and the Trader Jo's (isn't it Gordons?) is passable at a push. So alternative micro brews or even imported Belgaian beers? Tried a number of German imports and never really found one to my liking. the more I think about it I think I'll be stopping for an emergency alternative six pack at the store on the way home Fri Jan 19 22:40:57 -0800 2007 58434 rob133 1 2208049 I think you can top Hoegaarden, actually. Brooklyn Brewery's Blanche de Brooklyn beat it at the World Beer Cup. Avery's White Rascal and Hitachino Nest White Ale are two other really good witbiers. Fri Jan 19 23:48:20 -0800 2007 2207758 10809 Josh 2 2209267 I think you can top Hoegaarden as well. Allagash White Celis White Ommegang Witte Unibroue Blanche de Chambly St. Bernardus Witbier Technically, I don't consider Coors Blue Moon to be a witbier since it is made with malted wheat instead of unmalted wheat. Sat Jan 20 15:29:09 -0800 2007 2208049 12014 LStaff 3 2221903 I second the Ommegang Witte. Hoegaarden may be from another country, but saying it's great is like someone in Germany going on and on about MGD. Wed Jan 24 10:21:04 -0800 2007 2209267 40867 PikeOuttaPlace 2 2214275 I haven't had the Blanche de Brooklyn but the Avery and Hitachino Nest recommendations are the two I would make if I were seeking a witbier in your area. Mon Jan 22 17:10:30 -0800 2007 2208049 10395 brentk 3 2214321 I finally tried Allagash White, I was a little disappointed in it. Kind of thin-tasting. Mon Jan 22 17:20:43 -0800 2007 2214275 10809 Josh 3 2221908 Hitachino Nest is the best beer out there. The Blanche du Chambly from Unibroue in Quebec is very nice too. Domestically, the Sunshine Wheat from the Fat Tires is delicate, inoffensive, and nice on a summer day. Wed Jan 24 10:21:56 -0800 2007 2214275 40867 PikeOuttaPlace 1 2208104 To be clear a distinction can be drawn between Witbier and Weisse or Weizen. Where both are made with around 50% wheat, Witbier is additionally brewed with a variety of spices including orange peel and coriander. Sat Jan 20 00:11:03 -0800 2007 2207758 26180 Chinon00 2 2209253 Some of the bigger brewers in Munich are using up to 70% wheat in their hefewiezens. Sat Jan 20 15:21:40 -0800 2007 2208104 12014 LStaff 1 2208216 I like Erdinger and Franziskaner Heffeweisens. Sat Jan 20 00:49:25 -0800 2007 2207758 10732 JMF 1 2209735 Ayinger Brau Weiss and Ur Weiss are excellent. So is Schneider. All should be available here. Sat Jan 20 18:53:01 -0800 2007 2207758 47121 number6 1 2211549 definitely you can top hoe - all belgian wits and belgian-wit-style micros mentioned so far are great suggestions. blanche de chambly was always one of my favorites when i was in the throes of my wit phase ;) bavarian wheat beer has more body...more chewiness than a wit style. my favorites in this style are Paulaner and Weihephstephaner (sp?)-- as mentioned Ayinger's weisse style is also quite tasty. but when i used to be able to find Maisels Weisse it was my all time favorite bavarian wheat. good bavarian style american micros are few and far between in my (granted limited FL) experience. Bell's Oberon was really good a few years back, but i think they must've changed the recipe cause last time i had it it was less bavarian and more belgian wit. (we were able to get it while visiting indianapolis, never here in FL) so if you can get Oberon, you might really enjoy that one! Sun Jan 21 15:48:50 -0800 2007 2207758 51618 hitachino 1 2213698 I've been a big fan of German Wheat beers, but it is really more of a summer drink (though I'll dring one at any time). There are different styles of German Wheat beers. The basics are Kristal (clear and usually served with a slice of lemon), Hefe (with added yeast and never served with a - though American bar tenders seem to think otherwise) and my favorite, Hefeweizen Dunkel (dark wheat with the yeast). Mon Jan 22 13:59:00 -0800 2007 2207758 12627 ChewFun 1 2214225 Try Baltika 8--really nice Hefe-Weizen style. It's much smoother that Blue Moon, which I find to have a grassy taste I don't like. Mon Jan 22 16:56:21 -0800 2007 2207758 16728 kenito799 1 2214672 Bells also has their "Wheat Project" line. I've had a number of them and been very happy. One of them, I forget which, was very different and way stronger than any wheat I've ever had. Mon Jan 22 18:45:17 -0800 2007 2207758 10491 MOREKASHA 2 2214872 Those "Wheat Project" beers were all brewed in 2005 and are well past their prime now, with the exception of the one you recall, called Wheat Love, that was a Wheat Wine with an 8% ABV. Mon Jan 22 19:22:18 -0800 2007 2214672 10395 brentk 1 2214800 Well thanks for all the suggestions, I'll definetly try and work my way through some of them. Just as a follow up, the two palms sucked, it was bland tasting and simply not exciting enopugh - I had to resort to the back up cans of Boddington's!! Mon Jan 22 19:11:13 -0800 2007 2207758 58434 rob133 1 2220421 I've never had Hoegaarden, but if it's any better than Paulaner out of the bottle I would be very impressed. Keep in mind you have to POUR these beers, you can't drink them straight out of the bottle and get the proper flavoring and aroma... Also they are very foamy anyway so give them a hard pour then let the foam recede. My absolutel single-favorite wheat is Julius Echter on tap, but you're not likely going to find that. Paulaner is alot more accessible. Other top-shelf wheats: Weihestephaner H-W, Ayinger BrauWeisse... both on tap are sublime. A couple "very goods": Konig-Ludwig and Wiehensetephaner Kristall.... these are tap ratings. The K-L from the bottle is a bit more interesting than Kristall, IMO Those are all imports. There are also quite a few great domestic wheats... Boulevard Wheat and Goose Island are very good. So is Summit. Tue Jan 23 22:14:20 -0800 2007 2207758 42549 Chicago Mike 2 2220700 I never give a wheat beer a hard pour as there is plenty of carbonation already. Also, you don't want to mix the residual yeast in the pour. Best to let that settle on the bottom of the glass and then swirl it in at the end, if you prefer. Wed Jan 24 02:25:27 -0800 2007 2220421 10395 brentk 3 2222100 That's the problem... until that carbonation opens up you don't get full flavor, much like decanting a wine.... that goes for all beers, not just wheats. And there's far less residual yeast in wheats than, say, a big IPA that has yeast swimming in it. Wed Jan 24 11:02:14 -0800 2007 2220700 42549 Chicago Mike 4 2223116 But a hard pour with a wheat beer would quickly lead to foam all over the counter. I'm drinking a Bell's Winter Wheat right now and get about 50% foam with a moderate pour. Wed Jan 24 15:14:09 -0800 2007 2222100 10395 brentk 5 2224380 You're absolutely right... you have to be careful with the stuff, most wheats are foamy as &^%$#... and it takes awhile for the suds to subside... If it's a really "thin" wheat then you can adjust the pour, but most quality wheats open up with alot of lemon and clove when their aereated.... Wed Jan 24 22:37:53 -0800 2007 2223116 42549 Chicago Mike 2 2221036 Hoegaarden is a Belgian witbier, which is not the same as Bavarian hefeweizen. Witbier is seasoned with orange peel and coriander. The two styles are dissimilar enough that they aren't really comparable. Wed Jan 24 06:46:40 -0800 2007 2220421 10809 Josh 2 2237691 By the way -- not sure if you heard that Blvd is putting out some new brews this year after their facility expansion, including a dunkel weisse called "Lunar" due out in April. Mon Jan 29 07:57:23 -0800 2007 2220421 14230 heatherkay 1 2220492 i adore germanic hefes and belgian wits. of what is commonly available: 1. Hoe 2. franziskaner dunkel 3. franziskaner hefe 4. paulaner hefe Tue Jan 23 22:57:09 -0800 2007 2207758 67909 alpine chef 1 2221978 If you're in search of a good Hefeweizen I would recommed either Franziskaner (made by Spaten) or Paulaner. Both are enjoyable wheat beers. However, if it's a Belgian Witbier you're after, you cannot go wrong with Ommegang White. The beer itself is brewed domestically in Cooperstown, NY, but lest we forget that Ommegang is a subsidiary of Duvel, a magnificent company and the creators of the astoundingly good Duvel Golden Ale. Wed Jan 24 10:35:43 -0800 2007 2207758 68875 ShangysFan 2 2271870 I just had to chime in. You can't blame the good quality of Ommegang on Duvel. They only bought in after it was a successful, up and running brewery. Thu Feb 08 07:11:08 -0800 2007 2221978 10732 JMF 3 2279326 But they were involved from the beginning. Sat Feb 10 10:56:00 -0800 2007 2271870 14594 CTeater 1 2226918 among my favorites: Julius Echter Live Oak (regional and non-bottled in Texas only) Weihenstephaner Schneider Weisse Koenig Ludwig slammer here: Aventinus wheat icebock ("eisbock")..12% abv and delicious..from the people who brings you schneider weisse not a big fan of any american wheat (aside from live oak). doesnt have the body or depth of the germans. also, no lemon wedges in my beer please!! =) Thu Jan 25 14:27:23 -0800 2007 2207758 66026 paleogeek 2 2228597 Yeah, Aventinius is super-nice but a much richer brew than these Hefe-Weises. And, FWIW, I used to be a lemon-wedge hater but gotta admit for my tastes it does enhance most wheats. Fri Jan 26 01:28:20 -0800 2007 2226918 42549 Chicago Mike 1 2226989 ooooh ooooh (horseshacking) how could i forget about aventinus??!!! one of my favorites!!! i also wanted to suggest to the original poster that they may want to branch out into more of the 'herbed' ales (traquair jacobite, fraoch, etc) heck, try anything once!!!! Thu Jan 25 14:39:46 -0800 2007 2207758 51618 hitachino 1 2227029 'Herbed ales' ? That I'm not so sure about, I'll have to do some reading and serious thinking about that one, but thanks for the tip! Would they be like friut ales? Now there is a beer road I'm not willing to travel on. Thu Jan 25 14:48:56 -0800 2007 2207758 58434 rob133 2 2227846 i was just reading about ancient scottish heather ale...supposedly brewed for the last 2000 years. Lots of different herbed varieties. Then there are spruce ales, brewed by Ben Franklin--Yard's in Philly has a good one. Hops are sort of an herb, after all... Thu Jan 25 18:43:30 -0800 2007 2227029 16728 kenito799 3 2233417 is that scottish ale that you're referring to fraoch heather ale or traquair jacobite? i'd love to try more 'herbed' ales given how much i like those two. i also recently (within last 6 mos) stumbled upon belhaven st.andrew's ale and i love the tinge of smokiness it has. (just a hint, not like the liquid bacon ales) unfortunately, that's another one i'm having a hard time finding here in FL had one in savannah at molly's scottish pub, served by a man in a kilt no less ;) Sat Jan 27 12:45:12 -0800 2007 2227846 51618 hitachino 4 2233671 Belhaven St. Andrew's is one of my favorite beers, as is the Traquair Jacobite. If you like those then I'd suggest seeking out Fantome Saison, which is one of the best herbed beers out there. Sat Jan 27 14:43:50 -0800 2007 2233417 10809 Josh 1 2227068 no, not fruity - herby! ;) and no, not that kind of herb. though i believe there is a hemp ale available someplace. i could be wrong. ;) traquair jacobite (scottish ale) is.....sublime? divine? yum. another great scottish ale for the wheat/wit fan is belhaven's st. andrews. i have always frowned on fruit flavored ales myself, but i'm quite fond of sea dog blue paw and their apricot wheat. and dogfish's aprihop. like i said, try anything once! Thu Jan 25 14:55:47 -0800 2007 2207758 51618 hitachino 2 2227514 I think fruit beers have gotten a bad rap from the likes of Lindemans and Sam Adams. Traditional Belgian fruit beers are awesome, and not sweet and syrupy. Thu Jan 25 16:44:31 -0800 2007 2227068 10809 Josh 3 2227725 actually, you're naming the two that i've tried that i didn't like. lindemans framboise and sam adams cherry wheat. i was like, somebody shoot me now if this is beer, cause it's gawdawful. :0) but hey, i tried 'em! do you have any suggestions for a 'fruity' beer that a non-fruity beer type might like? Thu Jan 25 17:52:35 -0800 2007 2227514 51618 hitachino 4 2227767 I figured that was the case. Lindeman's is best consumed as a dessert beverage and not a beer. As for suggestions, it kind of depends on how much tolerance you have for sour beer. I love sour beers, so I'm a big fan of traditional lambic. It is definitely unusual, and not to everyone's taste. I suggest looking for Cantillon's Lou Pepe Kriek, or Haansens Artisinaal Oude Kriek. These are both flavored with sour cherries, though the cherry flavor is more of a hint than a strong presence. There are other wild aromas coming though that make these two of the most interesting, challenging beers around. I would not suggest the Lou Pepe Framboise. The last release was too tart to handle. The same goes for Cantillon's Fou Fonne, made with apricots. Insanely tart stuff. Drei Fonteinen also makes a sour cherry kriek that's awesome, though much fruitier than the other two I mentioned. However, it's still very tart and not sweet and syrupy. The challenge you'll face in trying to find these is that they are quite rare. If I want any of these beers there is only one store I know of in my area that sells them. Whole Foods sometimes has Cantillon, but not always the fruit varieties (though they ALWAYS stock the dreaded Lindemans). Thu Jan 25 18:11:18 -0800 2007 2227725 10809 Josh 5 2233543 i had a 'challenging' beer once. duchesse de bourgogne. it was so challenging i had to pour it out. ;) it tasted like straight up vinegar. shudder. i'd have to find a place featuring those kinds of beers for tasting. buying several $8 - $15 bottles of beer and really disliking one or all is too much for me to risk. Sat Jan 27 13:38:24 -0800 2007 2227767 51618 hitachino 6 2233674 I love Duchesse. One of my favorites. I'd suggest giving it another shot - if you know going in that it's sour, then you won't be thinking vinegar. I don't think it's anywhere near vinegar, really. All the Belgian sours are among my favorite all-time brews. The only ones I've had that make me shudder are the Cantillon Lou Pepe Framboise, and their Fou Fonne. Sat Jan 27 14:45:24 -0800 2007 2233543 10809 Josh 7 2237397 How long ago did you try the Fou Foune? I just had one that was bottled in 06 and I thought it was perfect, the sourness balanced by intense waves of flavor and aroma. I just bought more (yeah it is so expensive!) I liked it more than the Organic Gueuze. If you are ever in Philly you have to try their Monk's Cafe Cuvee Gueuze on tap--I found it fresher and more delicious than the bottled Organic. I admit I have fallen hard for Cantillon so I like the sour bite. I am looking forward to trying the Rose de Gambrinus, although I have heard its even more sour. Mon Jan 29 06:29:53 -0800 2007 2233674 16728 kenito799 8 2237503 I had the Fou Fonne on draft, so that may be part of the problem. I've noticed that Belgians are often better in the bottle. I just had a crazy sour one from Cantillon, the Bruocsella 1900 Grand Cru. It's 3 years old, and aged in oak. Had zero detectible carbonation, and was unbelievably sour. I like a lot of what Cantillon does, just something about the Fou Fonne was a little too mouth-puckering for me. I may have to try the bottled version and see if there's a difference. I had the privilege of sampling Rodenbach's Grand Cru last weekend, and that's an excellent sour beer. I also had a really good sour made in Michigan of all places, by a place called Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales. La Roja, which tasted very similar to the Monk's Cafe Flanders Red. I'd definitely recommend seeking it out. http://www.jollypumpkin.com/beers.htm Mon Jan 29 07:13:01 -0800 2007 2237397 10809 Josh 9 2237560 Funny, when I visited Monk's I also had Rodenbach Grand Cru, my first taste of the flanders style. It was great stuff, I liked the winy fruitiness along with the sour. I will be trying more red ales, definitely the Monk's one the next time I am in Philly. I will also look out for jolly pumpkin if they are ever available in NYC. Mon Jan 29 07:27:56 -0800 2007 2237503 16728 kenito799 4 2228598 I didn't like Cherry Wheat either. There's just not enough expression of Cherry in it and it comes across and dullish and bitter. My absolute fave domestic fruit-infused beer is Leinenkugels Berry Weisse. If anything it's overly-fruity so if you find it too much just mix it 50-50 with a plain weisse... delicious stuff. Fri Jan 26 01:30:20 -0800 2007 2227725 42549 Chicago Mike 5 2233093 Do you have other fruit beer recommendations? I've never come across a fruit/berry "flavored" beer that I liked. My bias kept me away from trying the exxxpensive belgiums. Leine is hard to find here and the only style they offer isnt too impressive Sat Jan 27 10:21:54 -0800 2007 2228598 66026 paleogeek 6 2233402 The only ones I've had that I've enoyed are the Belgian offerings. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. Sat Jan 27 12:39:18 -0800 2007 2233093 10809 Josh 1 2227813 I made a few decent discoveries in the area of American Wheat Ale. American Wheat Ale is sort of like wheat beer without the ester-clove-banana thing working and with increased hops. I find them a pleasant American alternative to bigger American style beers. Widmer and Sierre Wheat are a couple out there that epitomize the style. On the other hand an American Wheat Ale that falls inline with (and maybe beyond) the Bavarian style was Troegs Dreamweaver. This beer have clove, banana and even pineapple notes. Nice! Thu Jan 25 18:30:42 -0800 2007 2207758 26180 Chinon00 2 2233466 Just to get back to the original post, the Two Palms is listed on Beer Advocate as an American Wheat, not a German style hefe (nor a wit). Judging by rob133's follow up I'd say that is pretty accurate ;) Sat Jan 27 12:59:28 -0800 2007 2227813 12713 TongoRad 1 2233404 i just tried a leine sunset wheat and it's quite tasty. definite citrus/orange thing going on, but no coriander (ie, it's not a blue moon clone). as far as US non-bavarian style wheats go, it's not bad at all! edit, i just read the ratebeer listing for this beer and they do say it has coriander. i couldn't taste the coriander at all. but the orange was certainly there. Sat Jan 27 12:40:10 -0800 2007 2207758 51618 hitachino