361304 Wed Jan 17 22:02:23 -0800 2007 54 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 2199268 Considerations might be taste smoke point temperature saturated fat content other health benefits price & availability in bulk Since we use it so frequently, it would be good to be informed. I am curious how canola compares to safflower, corn oil to regular "vegetable oil". Palm to coconut. Any thoughts? Should butter (or ghee) remain a special treat, or can we use it frequently whenever we can? Other animal fats? What do restaurants use? What is your everyday oil? Wed Jan 17 22:02:23 -0800 2007 61426 grocerytrekker 1 2199360 There's no one answer to your question -- people (and restaurants) use different fats for different purposes. I like to use "traditional" fats -- those that have been used for centuries. Which means animal fats and oils like olive oil. I personally think Canola oil is an invention of the devil -- artificially created and icky tasting -- but that's a rather idiosyncratic position on my part. The health benefits of various fats are widely debated. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference in the amount most people consume from their home cooking. When I want a neutral oil with a high smoke point I use grapeseed oil. It can be purchased fairly cheaply in large quantities from middle eastern groceries (or in half-liter bottles for $2.49 at Trader Joe's). Wed Jan 17 22:15:59 -0800 2007 2199268 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 2199370 Isn't canola oil another name for grapeseed oil? Wed Jan 17 22:17:47 -0800 2007 2199360 10855 nosh 3 2199375 No, it's RAPEseed, not GRAPEseed. As you can imagine, the producers decided that "rape" was not a word they wanted associated with their product, so the coined the term "canola" (from Canadian oil, since that's where it was being cultivated). Wed Jan 17 22:20:42 -0800 2007 2199370 10159 Ruth Lafler 4 2199383 Yes, rape is a mustard family plant that has brilliant yellow flowers in May in northern climes. When you see spring fields of yellow in Britain or Canada in films, it's often rape in bloom. Wed Jan 17 22:22:40 -0800 2007 2199375 13819 Karl S 3 2199378 No, it is canola seed oil, a specially bred (from Rape seed), seed for the oil. Wed Jan 17 22:20:57 -0800 2007 2199370 61669 Quine 4 2199504 There is no such thing as canola seed. The name comes from CANadian Oil Low Acid, a low-erucic acid (a suspected carcinogen) oil extracted from genetically modified rapeseed. Wed Jan 17 22:46:29 -0800 2007 2199378 12335 cheryl_h 5 2199585 Oh dear, you better tell these people then: The Canola Council of Canada. They clearly state it is from the canola seed. Read for yourself: http://www.canola-council.org/cooking_myths.html Wed Jan 17 23:00:06 -0800 2007 2199504 61669 Quine 6 2199594 Propaganda from a marketing board isn't always very reliable information. Wed Jan 17 23:02:15 -0800 2007 2199585 10159 Ruth Lafler 6 2199657 The Canola Council has a vested interest in the commercial branding of a botanical herb, as it were. But "canola" is purely a commercial term. Rape is the ordinary agricultural name. Wed Jan 17 23:16:54 -0800 2007 2199585 13819 Karl S 7 2237552 ruth and karl here are correct. canola is BS. Mon Jan 29 07:26:53 -0800 2007 2199657 42755 ben61820 4 2200119 Quine, from http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/canoilrap.html Canola is a name that recently appeared in the marketplace and is apparently derived from Canadian-oil. Canola oil is actually produced from the rape seed plant. Rape (Brassica napus), a member of the mustard family, is listed in the Encyclopedia Britannica as a poisonous plant with toxic effects which include ìpulmonary emphysema, respiratory distress, anemia, constipation, irritability and blindness in cattle. Thu Jan 18 01:14:30 -0800 2007 2199378 22220 Kelli2006 5 2200200 Yeah, that's why they had to do a lot of manipulation of the plant to get it to product something fit for human consumption. I guess the issues is, at what point does something become a new species of plant? The plant they're calling "canola" is not the same at the rape plant they started from, but is it different enough to warrant being called a completely different plant? Thu Jan 18 01:37:45 -0800 2007 2200119 10159 Ruth Lafler 5 2200238 An old citation and one debunked. But it had alot of legs and is an urban myth. http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blcanola.htm http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2325.html http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/canola-oil/AN01281/ Thu Jan 18 01:47:39 -0800 2007 2200119 61669 Quine 6 2200275 While some of the knocks against canola have been addressed, there remain some open issues. Thu Jan 18 01:57:55 -0800 2007 2200238 13819 Karl S 7 2242587 Some background info from the folks who helped modify the canola seed: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/aboutUs/nrc90/achievements/canola_e.html Explains a bit about what was wrong with it, and what has been done. Tue Jan 30 13:03:51 -0800 2007 2200275 63783 mrbunsrocks 8 2243048 Apparently, because it is so low in saturated fat, that makes it more vulnerable to smelling and tasty fishy at high temperatures. Tue Jan 30 14:43:39 -0800 2007 2242587 13819 Karl S 1 2199373 Grapeseed and safflower are my reliables for neutral, high-heat oils. I avoid canola because there are unresolved questions about how it behaves at very high heat (the marketing campaign for canola is impressive, though). For bulk use (like deep frying), I use soybean oil. I find peanut oil has a distinct flavor rather than being neutral(but many people do not) so I prefer soybean oil to it for that purpose. I rely on olive oil and butter and ghee for flavored fats. Good butter is pretty hard to beat: it has water (which creates flakiness in baked goods) and sugars and proteins (which add flavor) and has 80% of the calories of oil on a per unit volume basis. It's indispensible. I have low-normal cholesterol, so I am not terribly concerned about that issue; the joy of genetics. Walnut and hazelnut oils are wonderful drizzled over roasted vegetables. Roasted pumpkin seed oil makes a beautiful effect and a lovely flavor; roasted sesame oil is essential in Chinese cooking -- use both sparingly. Goose fat is the premium animal body fat; it's worth buying a goose (often availabe in September and December) just to render a quart of that fat. It's great for all sorts of cooking, especially potatoes. Duck fat is also great for this. Lard and tallow I use less, but I don't make pie crusts else I might use lard more. Bacon fat from good bacon used to be the main cooking fat in the US, and is worth having for flavoring certain vegetables in a braise. Palm and coconut oils are useful substitutes for hydrogenated vegetable shortening, as they are solid at room temperature due to their saturated fat content. In the end, you need to match the fat to the method and need; each type of fat excels at different things. Wed Jan 17 22:19:41 -0800 2007 2199268 13819 Karl S 1 2199388 when I can get it I actually like to use Camellia oil (oil from the seeds of the tea plant) Currenly the only company I know that sells it is the Republic Of Tea but other doublessly exist it is the listest cleanest tasting oil I have ever had and its smoke point is prectically infinity. I was once told that certaing group of Buddist monks (who supposedly first found out about the oil) believed that the airiness and lightness of dishes cooked in this oil also was beived to bring one closer to Nirvana :-) Wed Jan 17 22:23:10 -0800 2007 2199268 24492 jumpingmonk 2 2199568 Rice bran oil is also very neutral with a high smoke point. Wed Jan 17 22:56:16 -0800 2007 2199388 10159 Ruth Lafler 3 2237566 rice bran oil is used in every restaurant ive worked at. high smoke point so they love it in the deep fat fryers (fryolater fans holler!!!). at home tho, i use solely extra virgin raw, unprocessed coconut oil for all my sauteing since it does NOT get all messed up when heated. i love olive oil for all salad dressings but i try to avoid heating it since ive read that once heated, olive oil is not so good for you anymore:) Mon Jan 29 07:29:09 -0800 2007 2199568 42755 ben61820 4 2383380 To the camellia oil poster - how do you find it inexpensively to cook with?! It's interesting to me that camellia, rice bran and olive oils all have applications in skin care and are highly regarded. My favorite oils for cooking depend on what's being cooked... virgin coconut oil (that actually has some coconut scent/taste going on) yields a gorgeous hint of flavor and texture somehow. Love it for cookies etc. Peanut oil (again, some organic kind where you actually get a whiff of peanuts) goes nicely in some recipes where the idea of peanuts wouldn't be offputting. Tue Mar 13 21:31:58 -0700 2007 2237566 40486 Cinnamon 5 2383391 Yes, and peanut oil is not used in our household because of a strong aversion to peanuts. Tue Mar 13 21:38:15 -0700 2007 2383380 10133 wally 5 2383740 I'm not sure about inexpenively but I usually just use the kind Republic of Tea sells. Proably the easiest way is to simply order it from them though I have bumped into it being sold at some Chef Cental and Whole foods stores. (though not the latter recently). While I won't claim its inexpensive its seems no more to me than many kinds of olive oil. Wed Mar 14 04:35:25 -0700 2007 2383380 24492 jumpingmonk 1 2199518 I use peanut oil for high-heat cooking, lard which I render myself for most other frying, olive oil and butter for flavor. Wed Jan 17 22:48:33 -0800 2007 2199268 12335 cheryl_h 1 2199583 It might be easier to list the fats and oils I don't purchase and avoid consuming: Canola (see above) Soybean Cotton seed Artificially hydrogenated fats (aka transfats) There are probably others, but those are the ones that are likely to be seen on ingredient labels. Otherwise, I think most fats and oils have their place. Wed Jan 17 22:59:50 -0800 2007 2199268 10159 Ruth Lafler 2 2199660 Thanks, Ruth. Might as well, since we have so many other great alternatives. For what it's worth (I'm not afraid), canola is genetically modified in the U.S. and so are soybeans, corn, and yes, cotton. Wed Jan 17 23:17:51 -0800 2007 2199583 61426 grocerytrekker 1 2199602 Lard all the way. I render my own. Love the depth of flavor it gives foods on cold days. Apples sauteed in lard is just this side of heaven. Wed Jan 17 23:03:38 -0800 2007 2199268 12758 Ernie Diamond 1 2199782 I use butter and olive oil for cooking, peanut oil for deep frying, lard for pastries, and I keep a neutral oil (right now it's a mazola corn/canola blend) on hand for mayonnaises and stuff like that, but it doesn't get used nearly as often as the others. And of course sesame, walnut, truffle, chili oils, for seasoning purposes. I don't there is any one "best" oil -- it all depends on what you are doing. Wed Jan 17 23:43:24 -0800 2007 2199268 66685 AnnaEA 2 2199957 Of course. I should have included "cooking purpose" on the considerations list. This question arose out of my daily needs. I haven't really given my canola oil much thought. But today Ruth (and Karl S) convinced me to switch to grapeseed oil. Not a traumatic change, an easy one actually - but for the "better", I am hoping. Thu Jan 18 00:32:52 -0800 2007 2199782 61426 grocerytrekker 1 2201114 Other oils: Flaxseed oil, sunflower oil, pine nut oil, macadamia oil, hemp seed oil (?), pomegranate seed oil, rose hip oil, mustard seed oil (related to canola??) Thu Jan 18 06:42:08 -0800 2007 2199268 61426 grocerytrekker 1 2201172 Olive oil for everything except stir frying or deep frying then I use Peanut Oil.Peanut Oils good for almost anything. Thu Jan 18 07:31:13 -0800 2007 2199268 43660 billjriv 1 2236482 The oil with the highest smoke point? On this list, avocado oil. Oil heated beyond the smoke point is known to be carcinogenic. (Data from Cooking for Engineers) Unrefined canola oil 225°F 107°C Unrefined flaxseed oil 225°F 107°C Unrefined safflower oil 225°F 107°C Unrefined sunflower oil 225°F 107°C Unrefined corn oil 320°F 160°C Unrefined high-oleic sunflower oil 320°F 160°C Extra virgin olive oil 320°F 160°C Unrefined peanut oil 320°F 160°C Semirefined safflower oil 320°F 160°C Unrefined soy oil 320°F 160°C Unrefined walnut oil 320°F 160°C Hemp seed oil 330°F 165°C Butter 350°F 177°C Semirefined canola oil 350°F 177°C Coconut oil 350°F 177°C Unrefined sesame oil 350°F 177°C Semirefined soy oil 350°F 177°C Vegetable shortening 360°F 182°C Lard 370°F 182°C Macadamia nut oil 390°F 199°C Refined canola oil 400°F 204°C Semirefined walnut oil 400°F 204°C High quality (low acidity) extra virgin olive oil 405°F 207°C Sesame oil 410°F 210°C Cottonseed oil 420°F 216°C Grapeseed oil 420°F 216°C Virgin olive oil 420°F 216°C Almond oil 420°F 216°C Hazelnut oil 430°F 221°C Peanut oil 440°F 227°C Sunflower oil 440°F 227°C Refined corn oil 450°F 232°C Refined high-oleic sunflower oil 450°F 232°C Refined peanut oil 450°F 232°C Refined Safflower oil 450°F 232°C Semirefined sesame oil 450°F 232°C Refined soy oil 450°F 232°C Semirefined sunflower oil 450°F 232°C Olive pomace oil 460°F 238°C Extra light olive oil 468°F 242°C Soybean oil 495°F 257°C Safflower oil 510°F 266°C Avocado oil 520°F 271°C Sun Jan 28 18:09:38 -0800 2007 2199268 61426 grocerytrekker 2 2237315 Great list. Light olive oil is great for deep frying. I live in Spain and everyone uses it for deep frying--here I've never once heard this nonsense that it can't be used for high heat. It makes the best potato chips, french fries, fried seafood, stir fries, etc. I have no idea why people in the US persist in believing that olive oil has a low smoke point. Unfortunately, light olive oil isn't really imported and olive oil in general is riduculously overpriced in the US due to low consumption. I use olive oil (different varieties for different uses) for virtually everything now. Mon Jan 29 05:44:44 -0800 2007 2236482 10661 butterfly 1 2237577 my pop likes using macadamia nut oil for pretty much everything. ive read differing opinions on this. it does NOT taste of macadamia nuts btw. unfortunate tho it may be. also, one interesting thing to note on tastes of these oils: most do NOT taste of their source, like i just mentioned with mac nut oil. however, coconut oil is great cuz it DOES totally and completely taste like coconuts. more so even than olive oil tastes of olives. make sure, if you do go the coconut oil route tho, that it is totally and completely unrefined and solid at 76 degrees, etc. Mon Jan 29 07:31:47 -0800 2007 2199268 42755 ben61820 1 2237636 some health considerations: The only oils that do not produce free-radicals (little molecules that wreak havoc on a cellular level) when heated are saturated fats. so stick with coconut oil and butter if you are worried about a legitimate health concern. I don't think cholesterol or high fat content are a legitimate health concern UNLESS you you eat too much, a bad habit in the US of course, but not for all of us. in terms of free radicals, poly'unsaturated fats will produce the most, so don't cook with them by rule if you can get away with it. use them where you can, but the problem is in the heating. mono-unsaturateds are in the middle here, olive oil is one of the great healthy substances, it can help you lower unneeded cholesterol, along with a host of other benefits, but it is best in cold dishes and dressings. Canola is officially mono-un, but it, like margarine is most definitely of the devil (if one exists) STAY AWAY FROM THESE, for the good of all mankind. that all said, I love EVOO, for everything. I will continue to use it and only it. somebody back there mentioned roasted sesame oil - 2 things on that - roasting sesame oil is a terrible idea, the free radical action created is tremendous from sesame oil. additionally, in terms of chinese herbal medicine, sesame oil should always be used sparingly, it is very powerful, has a warming effect. In southern chinese cooking (in which i have only dabbled) you do not cook sesame oil, you add it at the end of the process, as a garnish. (and they didn't know anything about free radicals when they came up with that) Mon Jan 29 07:44:18 -0800 2007 2199268 69786 luke643 2 2383395 Would like to 2nd everything said here. Tue Mar 13 21:38:57 -0700 2007 2237636 40486 Cinnamon 1 2238011 just curious, exactly what is evil about canola oil? no rants please, i want some facts. yes i understand it has erucic acid (albeit in low concentrations) but what else is wrong with it? also doesn't thomas keller of french laundry use it? for those of you who say you can taste its evil, can you taste the canola oil in his food? thx Mon Jan 29 09:08:12 -0800 2007 2199268 10246 choctastic 2 2238151 I've looked into it recently because I've heard stories about it. The original rapeseed oil wasn't safe for consumption because of erucuc acid but it's been bred so that it is safe and produced predominantly by Canada now (hence Canada oil=canola). It's been used in Europe for much longer. Canola is often genetically modified (not bred but changed in labs), but you can get around it by buying organic. There are people who claim it tastes bad. Personally, I'll stick mostly with olive oil but won't completely avoid organic canola like I do trans fats. Mon Jan 29 09:40:53 -0800 2007 2238011 39874 chowser 1 2238073 Some of the posts went through the basics. i don't know enough to say anything more then "better safe then sorry" i don't like to eat anything that is so a)chemically processed and has so much b)corporate/governmental sponserhip. it sounds to me as if the canadian government found a surplus of toxic oil and turned it into a (maybe) non toxic food product. so, as it is the only other monounsaturated fat, i ask you, why the hell would you use it over EVOO?? that said, i don't eat keller's food, it is too damn expensive. Mon Jan 29 09:21:07 -0800 2007 2199268 69786 luke643 1 2238092 Speaking of cooking oils, what causes french fries to have a fishy taste? Mon Jan 29 09:26:08 -0800 2007 2199268 19148 aynrandgirl 2 2238226 I think that's canola. Mon Jan 29 09:57:40 -0800 2007 2238092 13819 Karl S 3 2238254 Yep, it sure is. Mon Jan 29 10:02:56 -0800 2007 2238226 12099 sivyaleah 3 2238517 So it's not because the oil is too old, or because they used the same frier for both fish and fries? Mon Jan 29 11:00:55 -0800 2007 2238226 19148 aynrandgirl 4 2238564 No - if you open a brand new bottle it was still have that odor. It's the nature of the oil and something many people find offensive. Mon Jan 29 11:11:08 -0800 2007 2238517 12099 sivyaleah 5 2238693 And I thought it was just me! For a long time I thought I was just imagining things or that my oil had gone off, but finally I decided that I didn't care how fabulous it was supposed to be, I wasn't going to use it anymore. I think it's one of those things some people don't sense. I remember once my sister (who has an excellent palate) tried to convince me it was okay with a freshly opened bottle of high-grade canola oil (organic or natural or some such thing) and I still hated it. I wouldn't describe the flavor as fishy so much as rancid, but I don't like it. A little in a prepared food doesn't bother me (and it's pretty hard to avoid completely), but I won't cook with it. Mon Jan 29 11:39:25 -0800 2007 2238564 10159 Ruth Lafler 1 2238100 I do not use canola oil for the reasons already mentioned. I avoid most other vegetable oils if possible as well because I am learning a lot about the high eat, chemical, deodorizing processes they go through to be shelf stable. I use coconut oil in small amounts (there is information out there about it being good for you despite it being saturated fat, because it is a medium-chain saturated fat that your body metabolizes well and it has other benefits) and it has a hight smoke point. Tastes good with popcorn too. I use cold-pressed EVOO for most other things (mostly for salad dressings, light frying, etc.). A little bit of butter won't hurt you. Ghee has a higher smoke point than regular butter. Mon Jan 29 09:27:38 -0800 2007 2199268 23415 pescatarian 1 2238123 Olive oil for nearly all sauteeing purposes and salad dressings. I try not to use too much butter because of health issues, but I must use it for eggs (unless it's a frittata) - nothing else tastes right to me for this one kind of food and believe me, I've tried. Oh and for baking, of course. Peanut oil for deep frying/stir frying. I like ghee too, but don't use it too much anymore. I avoid canola oil - aside from all the aforementioned reasons, it also smells disgusting when heated, like rotten fish. My husband really dislikes this even more than I do, since he hates seafood. It really stinks up the house and no matter what I do, I just can't get the smell out for days. Mon Jan 29 09:31:44 -0800 2007 2199268 12099 sivyaleah 1 2242608 I use olive oil for most things, and canola oil when I want a more flavourless oil. I posted this link above, but I'll post 'er again here: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/aboutUs/nrc90/achievements/canola_e.html A little scientific background.....canola oil has been approved in Canada since the 70s and in the US since 1984.... Tue Jan 30 13:06:53 -0800 2007 2199268 63783 mrbunsrocks 2 2242637 Just because it has been approved doesn't mean it's any good for you in the end. May even be the reason your bunny has that funny hair-do :-) Animal testing for canola oil? (I'm sorry - I couldn't resist) Tue Jan 30 13:11:39 -0800 2007 2242608 12099 sivyaleah 3 2242721 I agree - just because something has been approved, not to mention something that is a huge export for Canada, doesn't mean it's good for you. Tue Jan 30 13:29:54 -0800 2007 2242637 23415 pescatarian 1 2383283 A few more - Marrow seed oil ( = pumpkin seed oil?) Poppy seed oil (huile blanche) Among all the oils we mentioned, there are quite a few which would go rancid quickly, particularly walnut oil. One particular oil which concerned me while I was reading about it was paraffin oil - wax, I guess- which is a hydrocarbon used to coat fruit, etc. It "must never be heated", according to Larousse. Don't we unknowingly add these to hot desserts all the time? Tue Mar 13 20:44:48 -0700 2007 2199268 61426 grocerytrekker 1 2383294 peanut ......for high heat..saute lard ....for frying olive oil/butter ....max flavor Tue Mar 13 20:49:17 -0700 2007 2199268 79603 nyfoodjoe 1 2383393 Grocerytrekker, if there is unrefined safflower oil (225 F), and refined safflower oil (450 F), what is safflower oil (510 F)? Tue Mar 13 21:38:20 -0700 2007 2199268 12511 Skillet Licker 2 2453670 I don't have the answer. Anyone? Thu Apr 05 10:01:05 -0700 2007 2383393 61426 grocerytrekker