HOME > Chowhound > Home Cooking >

Discussion

Low-temp prime rib roasting (Cook's Illustrated recipe etc.)

  • 123
  • Share

This is discussed in several topics, since it's such a different method from the usual ~350 degrees I thought I'd start a new one.

In "Best Recipe," the 1999 Cooks Illustrated book, the key elements are:

- bring roast to room temperature
- tie roast
- sear the roast on all sides on the stove
- season with salt and pepper
- roast at 200 degrees F for about 30 minutes a pound
- let stand 20 minutes before carving

Is the 225-degree recipe mentioned in other topics from issues of Cooks Illustrated published after that book?

I'm not going to try this tomorrow, since I don't have a pan big enough to sear the 18-pound six-rib roast I've got. I guess I could broil it, but I don't want to have to start cooking at 8am.

  1. Click to Upload a photo (10 MB limit)
Delete
Posting Guidelines | FAQs | Feedback
Cancel
  1. Forgive me if this is idiotic, but if a person wanted to sear a big roast, could he use a torch?

    6 Replies
    1. re: blue room

      I think the kind of torch you use for creme brulée might just sear the surface. You want to render out some of the fat, get the cap cooked through.

      1. re: Robert Lauriston

        hmm...a big torch, something Alton Brown would rig up, in a caveman costume! (Just kidding) I'm glad you mentioned "The Best Recipe", I usually just go to that for baking. Now I'm reminded.
        BTW Merry Christmas and thanks for all your valuable/invaluable posts throughout the year.

        1. re: Robert Lauriston

          You can use the kind of propane torch that you buy at the hardware store for about $20. In fact, if you try it you'll see that it's better for creme brulee than the teeny little torches sold for that purpose. Restaurant kitchens use butane torches.

        2. re: blue room

          A torch would burn the meat before it would create the browning that you seek. There's a lot of chemistry and physics behind it, but basically, a torch is just too hot and cooks too fast. That's how you can tell when a book, magazine, or newspaper is using a bad food stylist: the food will be black where it's supposed to be brown.

          1. re: Big Eater

            I use a torch all the time for big roasts and have never had them burn.

            I hate "char" and always avoid it at all costs. Using a torch works fine.

            1. re: Big Eater

              Not true. A torch works great. You can get a wonderful sear on the surface and you do not burn, or cook the meat. The latter is it's chief benefit in that you can sear the surface without any cooking. Now do you need to run out and buy a torch? No. Searing in a pan works well too.It just takes more care, a little more work and leaves you with a pan to clean,

          2. I have used this method quite successfully without the initial searing. Granted, there is no crisp, browned exterior and the fat remains, but the roast is succulent, juicy, and tender. If the meat is to be sliced in the kitchen, no one is the wiser. Of course, if the whole roast is to be presented at table then carved, it is not as delectable to present a dark beige piece of meat.

            1. Searing and browning the roast is a must for appearance and to kill bacteria on the exterior of the meat. I just checked the New Best Recipes book (2004) and the recommended oven temp is 250 degrees and to remove when the meat is 130 degrees (medium rare).

              6 Replies
              1. re: Chile Head

                How many minutes per pound at 250?

                1. re: Robert Lauriston

                  I don't see any minutes per pound just internal meat temp. 130 degrees for medium-rare and to rest 20-30 minutes afterwards. The recipe in the book used a 7 pound roast which took 3 - 3.5 hours to reach 130 degrees.

                  I've used this method from Cook's Illustrated several times and was extremely happy with the results.

                  1. re: Chile Head

                    The 1999 edition says 3-1/2 hours at 200F to reach 130F.

                    Maybe they just upped the temperature without retesting and revising the rest of the recipe.

                    1. re: Robert Lauriston

                      I have been using 225. IIRC, Jim H (on this site) recommends 200 but my oven drops to 175 when set at 200, I think 175 is too low, so I use 225.

                      Starting with a roast left on the counter for 2-3 hours, it takes ~1 hour per pound to get 130 on the instant read. If I start with a hot oven (450) for 15 minutes, the time decreases to ~45 minutes per pound. I haven't tried pan searing (yet).

                      1. re: Robert Lauriston

                        FWIW, there is a long discussion of roasting temp in the the 2004 edition. It's discusses higher temps and concludes that 250F is the ideal temp and that's the lowest temp they tested. It also mentions that 250F, slow-roast method was used by many "great prime rib restaurants".

                        They have to change something to sell the latest edition... ha!

                        1. re: Chile Head

                          I find a number of recipes online that say after an initial 15 minutes at 450F it'll take about 20 minutes per pound at 250F.

                2. I am an enthusiastic advocate of low temp prime rib roasting.

                  Outside of roast with initial searing:

                  http://flickr.com/photos/96779408@N00...

                  Uniformly rare done to an internal temperature of 140 degrees – tender, juicy, and delicious:

                  http://flickr.com/photos/96779408@N00...

                  7 Replies
                  1. re: CYL

                    That looks incredible!!!
                    Was high oven heat used to sear first, or perhaps a saute pan on the stove top?

                    1. re: ChowFun_derek

                      It was seared under High Temperature easily in my wok with the ventilator on medium.

                      1. re: CYL

                        Ah!...I would never have thought of using my wok!!!
                        Did you oil the ouside of the meat, or actually put a couple of tblspoons of oil in the wok itself....you got some incredible carmelization!!
                        And the interior was a rosey blush! All together the most perfect roast for my taste, esthetically and otherwise!

                        1. re: ChowFun_derek

                          less than a minute ago CYL replied

                          The latter, I put some oil in the wok. Though I have the temperature on high and the oil is smoking hot, the searing still does not penetrate too deeply into the roast!

                          1. re: CYL

                            Your technique will DEFINITELY be the way I will do it...perfect char and juicy rare interior!
                            Thanks!

                      2. re: ChowFun_derek

                        very nice! thanks for the pix and details....

                      3. re: CYL

                        Photos

                         
                         
                      4. The 20-minutes-per-pound estimates for initial 450F > roast at 250F seem to have been way too high, looks like my 18-lb. roast's going to be done about three hours early. Recommendations? Reheating would be extremely problematic.

                        4 Replies
                        1. re: Robert Lauriston

                          Aha, my oven has a hidden "dehydrating" mode that I can set to 120 degrees. Problem solved. (normally the stupid computer won't accept anything under 170.)

                          For future reference, I put the 18-lb. roast in at 450F, probe read 59F. After 20 minutes reduced the heat to 250F. The probe reached 118F at 3'24". So not counting the initial searing, that was just over ten minutes per pound.

                          1. re: Robert Lauriston

                            And, if it's a bit too cool at serving time, make sure the dinner plates are really hot to give the slices meat a couple degrees.

                            1. re: Robert Lauriston

                              2009 edition: 22-lb. roast, same method. Probe read 60F before cooking. The new oven apparently runs a bit hot when set to 250F (though it was spot on at 450F), and I had convection on, so it was done in a hair over three hours, or a bit over eight minutes a pound. Fabulous results especially considering next to no effort on my part.

                              Seven-rib dry-aged Niman, additional dry aging by the butcher (Cafe Rouge, Berkeley), fat cap removed, chine bone removed, presalted, fat cap tied back on.

                              1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                RL,

                                Did you use a regular oven or did you have a convection feature during roasting? Also, have you ever roasted at the lower temperature of 225*, and if so, do you recall how long the roast spent in the oven? I'm roasting a 22;b seven rib export tomorrow, but it is the first time I will be doing so in an oven with a convection feature.

                                Thanks in advance.

                          2. I'm a believer in this method now too. The results were impressively delicious.

                            Bought the 3-rib, 7-pound, choice grade roast from Costco on Tuesday, kept it wrapped in original package in the coldest part of my refrigerator. Last night trimmed the roast, salted liberally, and coated with the roasted garlic and prepared horseradish, about 15 hours before cooking -
                            http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/rec...

                            Took it out of the fridge this morning, allowing 5 hours to come to room temperature. Salt and pepper'd again over the garlic coating and sprinkled with thyme.

                            Roasted at 450 degrees for 15 minutes in the convection oven. Was happy with how the exterior browned up, but after cutting it, I'd do another 5 minutes next time to cook the cap meat a little more.

                            Whole roast resting -
                            http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/33...
                            http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/33...

                            The white blotches on the cut ends are the garlic goo, which didn't brown on the sides. Next time, don't touch the sides.

                            Roasted at 250 degrees in the convection oven. Internal temperature at 30 minutes was 90 degrees; at 60 minutes it hit 110 degrees; at 90 minutes reached 115 degrees. Took it out after 105 minutes at 122 degrees. Temperature rose to 130 degrees after removed from oven.

                            Rested for 45 minutes before slicing. Uniformly medium rare, would have liked the cap meat a little more done. Meat was juicy and succulent. Here's the fourth slice from the end, cut off the rib.

                            Medium rare slice -
                            http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/33...

                            14 Replies
                            1. re: Melanie Wong

                              Glad to hear that you had a successful roast off - like the pix and thanks for all the details about your procedure....

                              1. re: gordon wing

                                I had a moment of panic on Christmas eve on the drive down when I realized I'd forgotten to bring my thermometer with me. Getting off the freeway, Orchard Supply dead ahead turned out to be closed already at 6:30pm. Dashed over to the Long's Drugs near my parents' house to find four slots for thermometers empty. Then I pulled up to Nob Hill in time for them to close the door in my face at 6:45pm. Luckily I was able to borrow one from my cousin this morning. I didn't calibrate it with some boiling water before relying on it. I wonder if it might read a little low, as the roast was not as rare at 130 degrees as I thought it would be.

                              2. re: Melanie Wong

                                Thanks for all your posts here, Melanie! I used to do the sear before you low roast, but after your post here with the 450 start and then 250 roast -- no more need to be searing beforehand! YAY!

                                Sorry, I don't have pictures to post about the result - but the family loved it! This was the first time I had to roast the whole prime rib section (from Costco - all 13 pounds of it) too.

                                Also thanks for the tip about brining the meat to room temp - it definitely evens out the cooking and posting the cook times too - I thought I was going crazy seeing the meat done so quickly...but I stuck to your times and the believed in my instant read thermometer and went from there!

                                Now, onto learning how to not procrastinate and buy the meat early enough so I can age it and marinade it!

                                Thanks again!

                                1. re: Melanie Wong

                                  Another success. Same size roast - 3-bone, 7 lbs. Used fresh horseradish root grated fine with a microplane and blended with a little bit of crema instead of prepared horseradish. Otherwise, the same roasted garlic paste in the epicurious recipe.

                                  Increased the initial searing at 450 degrees to 20 minutes to good result. Interestingly, roasting at 250 degrees took only 90 minutes to reach internal temperature of 122 degrees or 15 minutes less than my first time in the same convection oven for the same size roast.

                                  Only rested for 30 minutes, then put back in the still slightly warm oven to hold temperature. Very little bleed or juice, just a couple teaspoons worth. The meat's very juicy and uniformly medium rare. The prime grade from Costco is worth the extra cost.

                                  1. re: Melanie Wong

                                    Nice job....and I agree the meat purchases at Costco are both good quality and value

                                    1. re: fourunder

                                      We bought the prime grade bone-in roast a week before Christmas. I trimmed a little bit of the brownish dried spots off before prepping, but not much.

                                  2. re: Melanie Wong

                                    A little bigger roast this year, 8.7 lbs, 4-bone prime grade from Costco, purchased 6 days before Christmas for a brief dry aging at home. Besides the size difference, two other things changed this year. I forgot to take it out of the fridge earlier, so only 2.5 hours at ambient temperature before cooking. After searing at 450 degrees for 20 minutes, roasted at 225 degrees (prior years were at 250) in the same convection oven.

                                    At 60 minutes the internal temperature was 90 degrees. By 135 minutes of slow roasting, the temperature reached 112 degrees. At 165 minutes, the temperature was 120 degrees and I pulled out the roast to rest. Carryover was less than I expected with two hours of resting, only climbing two more degrees to 122 degrees so this was bloodier than medium-rare. We decided not to put it back in since most of the roast will be leftovers to be reheated another time. The fat cap could have been more done.

                                    Next year, I think I'll try doing the sear step last after resting.
                                    http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/th...

                                    Tried Ruhlman's Yorkshire pudding recipe this year. It uses twice the proportion of eggs as other recipes. This gives a magnificent rise, but the puff is a bit tougher once it cools down.

                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    1. re: Melanie Wong

                                      Very.....very nice. Thanks for sharing.

                                      1. re: fourunder

                                        I was expecting the carryover to bring it up to 128 degrees or so. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why it was only two degrees instead of eight to 10 degrees. Might the fact that the roast was not at room temperature when I started cooking be a cause?

                                        1. re: Melanie Wong

                                          Generally, the larger the roast, the less the carryover....At 225, typically with 225* roasting temperature, I usually get no more than 5*...rarely up to 7*...8-10, I would expect for 250*...but my target temperature is higher at 125-130.

                                          I also find the more bones, the less the carryover with low temperature roasting. With moderate heat 325-350, I would expect 15*+... but I suspect the cause for your low rise in carryover has to do with the fact you pulled at 120*..which did not give the roast any chance to heat up internally to create the additional heat for the higher expected increase.

                                          I don't know if you realized, but it take a bit of time to reach the 100* mark....but the rise over 100 is much faster due to the build up in heat....When you pulled your roast, effectively you ended the cooking process and the unknown variable took over.

                                          Just to add to more confusion, I roasted a very small 2 pound Grass-Fed Rib Eye roast, very little marbling last night for an experiment. I monitored both the meat and the Roasting oven temperature and there were no surprises in either the digital probe thermometer or the unit. I roasted the beef with a target temperature of 130* before I intended to hold for an hour....the roast hit 130* in 90 minutes.....but surprisingly rose to 143*, before receding back to 133*.

                                          http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/929196

                                          I 'm no scientist, but I surmise it had to do with size and shape plus mass of any particular roast....whether it be beef, pork or poultry. I also suspect it has to do with moisture content of the particular roast....there is definitely no precise way of knowing what to know what will happen....but I'm fine with that and do not fret over it.

                                          I'm never looking to create the best possible roast...just something reasonably close. I used to pull between 118-122, but I find everyone is more agreeable to 125+

                                          1. re: fourunder

                                            Yep, the thermal mass plus the low roasting temp combined to make the carryover rise very low. I'd have predicted five degrees or less if pulling at 120, so pretty much spot on, maybe a bot lower. Even CI predicts a five degree rise with its method.

                                            The roast has no memory of what temp it went in at, so room temp or not isn't an issue at that point. At any point, in my opinion, but we can debate that part elsewhere.

                                            1. re: acgold7

                                              Actually I could have stated the starting point better. While I didn't take a temperature at the start, since I only had the roast out of the fridge for 2.5 hours before cooking, I imagine that the center of the roast was still colder than ambient temperature even if the outside was room temperature. I'm wondering if it is better to have the meat at one uniform temperature, whether refrigerator cold or room temp, at the start and not have to overcome a gradient in the cooking process.

                                            2. re: fourunder

                                              Thanks for your thoughts on the carryover. The previous two years that I posted this thread (and the only recordkeeping I've done), I cooked at 250 degrees, pulled the roast out at 122 degrees internal temperature and the carryover brought the temperature up to 130 degrees. This year I pulled at 2 degrees lower hoping to hit 127 or so, but no go. It makes sense to me that a larger piece of meat will have more even heat distribution and less carryover.

                                              The friends I spent NY day with today said they did their 19-lb Christmas roast low and slow. That family likes their meat bloody, so theirs was pulled out at 118 degrees and had only one degree rise in temperature as carryover. We both thought that our roasts should be cooked a little more when first carved, as the meat was so soft, juicy and red. However, we both agreed that after refrigerating the leftovers and serving them later, the meat's really not as rare as it looked initially. So in retrospect, I'm fine with 122 degrees as the final temperature.

                                              1. re: Melanie Wong

                                                Thanks for sharing....watch for my post on reheating the Holiday Prime Rib....it will dis spell some notions on what the best method is.

                                                as a side note, I've mentioned this before. Peoples idea of Rare, Medium-Rare and Medium vary greatly...even by those who cook for a living. I find most who think they like Medium-Rare like it closer to 140 than 130.

                                    2. My mom uses a different variation, given to her by the butcher. It's almost identical to Paula Deen's Rib Roast recipe and it turns out perfectly.

                                      5 lb rib roast (this method works w/ other sizes as well, supposedly)

                                      Preheat oven to 375 degrees F.

                                      Allow roast to stand at room temperature for at least 1 hour. Rub roast all over with seasoning. Place roast on a rack in a pan with the rib side down and the fatty side up. Roast for 1 hour. Turn off oven. Leave roast in the oven but do not open oven door for another 3 hours. About 1 hour before serving time, turn oven to 375 degrees F to reheat the roast.

                                      Note: Do not remove roast or re-open the oven door from the time roast is put in until ready to serve.

                                      From Cooks Illustrated's Cooks Country (online version) - I guess they adjusted the technique?

                                      1. Adjust oven rack to lowest position and heat oven to 450 degrees. Season roast with 2 teaspoons salt and 1 teaspoon pepper and arrange on V-rack set inside roasting pan. Roast until well browned, about 1 hour.

                                      2. Combine herbs, mustard, oil, flour, and sugar in small bowl. Remove roast from oven and reduce heat to 250 degrees. Spread herb mixture evenly over top of roast. Return to oven and roast until center of meat registers 125 degrees (for medium-rare), about 1 1/2 hours. Transfer to cutting board and let rest, uncovered, for 30 minutes.

                                      1. The 200 degree method above proved to be the best method I've ever used.

                                        I bought a whole rib from my local Cash & Carry...choice grade. I trimmed it a tiny bit, cut 6 nice steaks off it and ended up with a 12 pound rib roast for Xmas eve.

                                        I salted the crap out of it and let is stand in the fridge for about 4 hours. After this point, I took it out to let it warm to room temp for about 6 hours. At 4 AM, I seared it on all sides with clarified butter and placed it in a 200 degree oven on a rack in a roasting pan. By about 10 AM, the internal temp at the thickest point was 126. I decided to let it stand in the oven uncovered at 150, because we weren't eating until 5, and I was shooting for a mid rare 140 by serving time.

                                        At about 3pm, the internal temp was 132, and I continued to let it warm in the oven until about 4:30. I had to switch to a 200 degree oven at this point, and it stayed there until about 5:30, at which point I let it rest covered in foil for 20 min.

                                        I was very skeptical, because the texture felt a little overdone with the poke test, but I sliced off the end to see a perfectly uniform pink roast, with no red center of brown ring on the outside.

                                        Honestly, I could have eaten this with a spoon. It was more tender than any piece of rare meat I've ever eaten in my life. They do not lie, all the juice is preserved in the roast. There was only about 2 tablespoons of juice that came out during carving (and only a 1/2 cup of drippings). I served it with a demiglaze sauce and a savory horseradish whipped cream. Instant classic.

                                        In my mind there is no other way to do 'prime' rib.

                                        5 Replies
                                        1. re: bayareaberg

                                          I've used the 200 degree method ever since Cook's Illustrated published it in 1995! In fact, my late wife and I got a letter published in Cook's Illustrated regarding the question of letting the roast sit after it has reached the temperature you want in the oven. We wrote:

                                          "[T]here are two traditional reasons for letting the meat sit for 20 minutes or so after coming out of the oven. (1) To let the heat become evenly distributed from the outside to the inside. (2) To let the juices retreat throughout the roast. . . . This method of cooking the prime rib ought to render both ancient requirements irrelevant. The meat cooks evenly during the whole process, as the small amount of temperature rise after leaving the oven shows. Similarly, since the roast loses so little weight during cooking, no juices are being extruded, hence, no need to let the juices retreat to the interior. We think you could probably slice this roast as soon as it reaches the desired temperature on the meat thermometer without any loss of juice or any significant change in the interior temperature. The benefit of doing it this way is that it would be as hot going to the table as it was coming out of the oven."

                                          This sent Cook's back to the test kitchen to check--what sacrifices they made for science; they had to cook another set of prime ribs--and they agreed the roast could be sliced as soon as it came out of the oven. Unfortunately, that change did not get included in any of the versions of the recipe published in their books. But I still believe you can safely slice the roast immediately, and I recommend doing so.

                                          1. re: marccogan

                                            Sorry, but I will have to disagree with your assessments to some extent......my experience from my 2009 Christmas Prime Rib Roast cooked at 200* to a target temperature of 120*, pulled out of the oven with a 30 minute rest and then put back into the oven for an 8 minute blast @ 450* and taken out immediately to the cutting board(seriouseats.com recipe)..........with about another 15 rest(not planned).........after slicing the roast to individual portions as need, there was still bleeding from the roast. evident by the pooling of the juices in the cutting board's juice grooves.

                                            This is the first year I tried the roast at 200*...as I normally roast at 225*...my findings are the 200* doesn't result in a significantly better roast...or worth the extra 1.5 hour needed to hit the target temperature.....my conclusions are the roast benefits from an even longer resting period if/as possible....I came to this conclusion by reheating both a half inch slice in a fry pan on low flame for one minute on each side....and also a one inch slice in the oven @ 225* for about 20 minutes in a preheated oven. Both reheated pieces had no moisture loss during the reheat and the meat was actually more tender....thus, I believe longer/estresting is better than slicing immediately........but I will agree it is possible to slice immediately if you so desire....but for me I would not recommend

                                            1. re: fourunder

                                              I suppose you could be right, fourunder, that if you let the roast sit it will lose less (or no) moisture when reheated. But there you're talking about leftovers (as I discovered from your post on another thread). Here you specifically mention your 2009 Christmas Prime Rib. And I was thinking of precisely such a grand occasion as such a meal and the show-offy moment of bringing the whole splendid roast out and carving it at table. It was for that moment, and so those slices would not be cold, that I thought to mention that you could carve straight from the oven with a low-temperature-cooked roast. (Your blasting your roast at 450 at the end might well necessitate some recovery time. I do the outside browning of my roasts at the start, so there's no high heat at the end.)

                                              1. re: marccogan

                                                m,

                                                I have had some more recent results I just posted in the other thread, using a boneless rib eye roast and a four bone prime rib roast. In both cases, the meats were removed immediately after the final blast and sliced without any bleeding.

                                                http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6847...

                                                For the record, even with the little bleeding of the meat, i.e., the 2009 Christmas Roast, it was still pretty darn good.

                                          2. re: bayareaberg

                                            could i cook this in a roaster oven

                                          3. Lots of people talking about using a rack in the roasting tin,but personally I prefer my method of raising the beef joint:
                                            Cut some large onions in half and place cut side down in the roasting tin and spread garlic cloves,BIG chunks of carrot and parsnip around the tin and sprinkle with chopped rosemary,black pepper,salt and extra virgin olive oil.
                                            You then brown/caramelize the beef in a pan and sit it on the onions (you want enough onions to support all the roast so it doesn't touch the roasting tray).
                                            Then just cook the beef as per your preferred method .
                                            Once you remove the meat to rest you should have lots of meat juices,herbs and vegetables sitting in the roasting tin.After draining off the most of the fat use a potato masher to mash the veg etc in the roaster and (on the hob) add a few spoons of flour and fry gently.Then add your stock and cook out the flour to make some of the tastiest gravy you'll have ever had .

                                            Hope this may have been some use to some of you......oh and a merry christmas :)

                                            5 Replies
                                            1. re: Germ

                                              I recently read an interesting approach from Serious Eats. They bring an article from the Food Lab advocating a really low temperature and a final sear at 500F. The link is:

                                              http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/th...

                                              1. re: lawmann

                                                Prime rib may be different, but the CI slow roasted eye round produces virtually no drippings. It's a lean cut and the juices stay in the meat.

                                                1. re: lawmann

                                                  I used the Serious Eats method this year and it worked out GREAT. Usually I have a problem with timing so when my Dad called and said he was running an hour later than he planned, as usual I panicked. But, as the Serious Eats recipe suggested, I continued cooking to 120 degrees, took the thing out for a long rest (while Dad was on the freeway) and then reheated & caramelized at 500 degrees. Everyone thought it turned out great.

                                                  Now, that being said, the next day I helped my sister do the same to her roast and she said she didn't like the fact that it still smelled "meaty". (scratching head, I thought that was the whole purpose for eating beef).

                                                  And yes, there were no drippings or fat for Yorkshire pudding but I had already pre-empted that problem by making a big pot of beef stock the previous week and freezing the skimmed fat just for use on Christmas Day.

                                                  1. re: stephle

                                                    s,

                                                    Two thoughts....

                                                    first, to get around the the no drippings problem....you can render the fat in a fry pan from the actual roast you are making.....or from saved fat scraps from steaks which were previously trimmed and frozen.

                                                    second, I also used the seriouseats.com recipe for my holiday Prime Rib Roast this year. I usually roast @ 225* till I hit the target temperature of 122*, and thenbrown at the end @ 500* for 10 minutes or so, then rest for 30 minutes before serving. Now, after being a season veteran of both methods......I will have to say there was not a noticeable enough difference to warrant an extra 1.5 hours in the oven @ 300* as opposed to roasting @ 225*

                                                    Generally, there is never any leftovers of Prime Rib, however, this year there was a three inch thick piece that was not eaten. I sliced a half inch piece off and on a low flame, pan heated a medium-rare portion for exactly one minute on each side, just to warm it enough to take the chill out.......the piece was even better as a leftover. I can only assume that a longer resting period than 30 minutes is better to allow the juices to redistribute. The seriouseats.com recipe allowing for the 30 minutes rest outside of the oven, then a 8 minute 500* blast seemed to have much more blood.juice loss than I am used to with the 225* temperature I normally use for low and slow roasting.

                                                    1. re: fourunder

                                                      .I will have to say there was not a noticeable enough difference to warrant an extra 1.5 hours in the oven @ 300* as opposed to roasting @ 225*
                                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                                      There's a typo mistake here.....it should be and extra 1.5 hours in the oven @ 200*

                                              2. Ever since trying the cook's eye-round roast recipe, low-and-slow is the only way I go with my beef roasts now.

                                                My oven goes all the way down to 175 so I just roast at that temp until the meat is done. The results have been remarkable.

                                                For searing, there are two options - 1, on the stovetop, or 2, in the oven. Once your roast is up to temperature, take it out of the oven, crank it as high as it'll go, then stick it back in for about 10 minutes for that beautiful crust. YUM YUM YUM.

                                                6 Replies
                                                1. re: joonjoon

                                                  The instructions usually say take the meat out before it reaches its' proper doneness temp. take it out ..crank up the heat and let it sear (450 to 500 deg....it may take 10 minutes or longer to taste but the final blast will raise the temp. of the meat somewhat, so take that into account....I share you're YUM YUM!

                                                  1. re: joonjoon

                                                    Quick question - would you also salt a prime rib roast ahead of time like they do with the eye of round in this recipe? I am very interested in trying this CI recipe but I'm cooking a boneless delmonico roast, not an eye of round.

                                                    I remember reading an article in Food & Wine about salting and the taste testers determined it made a difference in roasted chicken and a braised lamb shank, but not in steak or lean pork chops. Don't want to salt ahead of time if it's not needed.

                                                    1. re: pedro32

                                                      This is a link to a thorough and well-illustrated piece on slow-roasting prime rib:
                                                      http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/th...
                                                      He does salt ahead of time.

                                                      1. re: pedro32

                                                        I salt and pepper my roast ahead of time, but not as aggressively as done in the eye round recipe. The overnight salting really makes a difference in flavor.

                                                        1. re: pedro32

                                                          I much prefer the flavor of beef that has been salted in advance. I'm sure that some people prefer unsalted meat, but it's hard to imagine that anyone with a good palate couldn't tell the difference.

                                                          1. re: pedro32

                                                            We've found that it greatly improves flavor in both the eye of round and the prime rib.

                                                        2. I'm a believer! I tried the low temperature method on a 4 lb cross rib roast that I had marinaded for 36 hours and the results were great. I used the marinade I came up with for tri-tip roast (gleaned from all sorts of internet and other sources). But before putting it in the baggie with the marinade I proceeded to commit aggravated mayhem on the roast, piercing it repeatedly with a meat fork on the sides, the top, the bottom. (I only do that with the tougher cuts of meat.) Of course if I had a nice prime rib, salt, pepper and maybe a little bit of garlic would be all it needed. Yes, I try to see what I can do with the less expensive cuts- especially when they are on sale. I eat like a bird- cheap! cheap! cheap! <g>

                                                          4 oz red wine vinegar
                                                          2 oz white vinegar
                                                          2 oz red wine
                                                          2 oz soy sauce
                                                          2 oz orange juice
                                                          2 oz frozen pineapple juice
                                                          1 oz Worcestershire sauce
                                                          1 oz basalmic vinegar
                                                          1 oz olive oil
                                                          1 oz molasses (estimated)
                                                          1/2 cup brown sugar
                                                          2 tsp crushed garlic
                                                          2 tsp garlic powder
                                                          2 tsp salt (or salt substitute)
                                                          1 tsp cracked peppercorns- black and mixed
                                                          1 tsp black pepper
                                                          1 tsp spices (rosemary, basil, parsley, sage, thyme)
                                                          1 tsp onion powder

                                                          After marinading the roast I set it out for 3 hours to warm up to room temperature
                                                          I preheated the oven to 500 degrees and put the roast in for 20 minutes, turning once.
                                                          I then turned the oven down to 250 degrees and figured that it would take 20 or 30 minutes per pound (like 80 minutes to 2 hours).

                                                          It took 3 hours and 45 minutes before the oven thermostat finally reached 130 degrees (and I did turn it up to 275 for about 15 minutes and then to 300 for 15 minutes at the very end). I think I need to check the calibration of my oven thermostat at the low settings! <g>

                                                          I let it stand for a full 30 minutes (I'm sure that 20 minutes would be fine) and then proceeded to slice it with my food slicer.

                                                          Wow! This came out extremely tender with a great taste enhanced by the marinade. For some reason I had this idea that cooking it for a long time at a low temperature would dry it out (maybe because that is how they dry lumber? I dunno.)

                                                          As some people have mentioned here there was hardly any juice coming out of the roast. However I personally think it is best to let it stand for 20+ minutes- I think that having it cool off a bit allows everything to mellow out a bit. (I base that on my observation that if I slice the roast after standing for 20 minutes it does not taste quite as good as it does when I slice some more maybe 10 minutes later.)

                                                          Thanks for starting a great thread here! I learned a lot by reading all of the replies.

                                                          Steve A.

                                                          1. All right guys double check me here. i have a 14lb top sirloin roast. The roast is primal cut USDA PRIME DRY AGED. beautiful fat cap.

                                                            i normally use the 250F cooking method but i don't know how long. Would 10-14min a pound seem right for medium. pull out at 130-135F

                                                            thanks

                                                            2 Replies
                                                            1. re: Firedogut

                                                              If it's not too late....

                                                              I generally roast @ 225* with a guideline 0f 25 minutes per pound for medium-rare temperature on premium beef roasts, i.e. prime rib or strip loin.....on a 3 lb. chuck roast, I also use the same guidelines with positive results. Roasting a larger and thicker roast, I would be more inclined to go with a lower temperature for a longer period. If you want to roast at the 250* temperature, my feelings are you should probably calculate based on 18-20 minutes per pound and then check with a thermometer towards the end.

                                                              1. re: Firedogut

                                                                Use a thermometer - that way there's no guesswork.

                                                              2. I always cook my meat this way, control and perfection!

                                                                1. Okay, let me start by saying I am fully aware that I am totally O.C. about prime rib. When we moved several states away from THE prime rib restaurant icon Lawry’s Prime Rib in Beverly Hills, I knew I had to do anything and everything possible to replicate that “special occasion” dining experience. To that end I have studied, experimented, tested and tasted my way to as-close-as-I-can-get prime rib nirvana.

                                                                  After years of oven roasting mountains of beef flesh I realized that to really achieve the restaurant quality crisp self-basted crust on a prime rib, you must rotisserie. Over the years I have purchased numerous rotisseries. Ultimately my go-to rotisserie became my vintage 1968 Farberware, bought on eBay. (It’s medium sized, stainless steel, and the one you most likely see at prime rib carving stations at a buffet).

                                                                  Having tried umpteen celebrity chef’s wonderful rubs, concoctions, and potions for flavoring a rib roast, I ended up back at the master’s; olive oil and Lawry’s Seasoned Salt. The seasoned salt has just the right small amount of sugar to caramelize and incrust the seasonings and juices.

                                                                  Since prime rib is my signature dish (I even listed it as such on my Chow.com profile) I take it very seriously. I buy a complete Cryovac’d rib side at Costco (my Costco has meat that is so fresh it makes me suspect that they’re actually slaughtering cattle out in the back parking lot). I carve my own roasts, making ribeye steaks of the excess. I prefer the small end of the ribs for my roasts, in order to accommodate those guests who love that “big lip, little eye” piece.

                                                                  So when friends and family come for My Big Grand Prime Rib Dinner, I’m ready. And I deliver. So much so that when I travel to visit them, guess what they want me to make while I’m there? Yep, my “signature dish”. But what about my beloved Farberware rotisserie left back at home? What about the Cryovac, carve-my-own-roast side o’ beef? I can’t travel with all that. And what about cooking in an unfamiliar kitchen with an unknown oven? That’s when I go to my tried and true fallback recipe; i.e. Paula Deen’s “Foolproof Prime Rib Roast” recipe. That mysterious alchemical magic where you put a huge expensive roast into a hot oven.... and then turn the oven OFF for 3 hours! Those few ChowHounds who have mentioned it know that amazingly, this technique works. But those who’ve never tried it will be hesitant, reluctant, and downright scared to put an $80 slab of beef into a hot oven and then turn the oven off for hours. But I’m here to tell you, it works. I don’t begin to understand the chemistry and mouthwatering magic of it, but low and slow is definitely the way to go when roasting a big chunk of meat to tender juicy bliss in an oven. And there is NOTHING lower and slower than turning the whole oven off for 3 hours!

                                                                  The only difference I see between the results of the “foolproof” method and regular roasting is that with regular roasting you get a well done outer ring, a medium inner ring, and a bloody pink center. With the foolproof method you get a well done outer ring, while the whole interior is a perfect baby pink.

                                                                  So if you’re daring, or as in my case, traveling and using an unfamiliar kitchen and oven, give this recipe a try. It really does work! Plus it gives you hours of free time;
                                                                  http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/pa...

                                                                  Just remember that you won’t be able to open your oven door for 4-6 hours, so make ahead any side dishes that won’t fit in your toaster oven or microwave. You MUST have a digital meat thermometer with a cable, and ABSOLUTELY follow recommended internal temps for your desired doneness, NOT minutes per pound timed cooking/reheating.

                                                                  Lastly I’ve found that you can’t always count on sufficient drippings from every roast, so I keep Johnnie’s French Dip Au Jus on hand (plus in a pinch you can mix it with with bacon fat for the Yorkshire Pudding). I have also been known to travel with Ingelhoffer’s Cream Style Horseradish and my Sur La Table Digital Oven & Meat Thermometer...just have to remember to check that thru in baggage!

                                                                  1. 14-lb. five-rib, dry-aged at least 42 days, maybe longer. The butcher said by that point the fat cap is nasty and if he didn't remove it would give the roast an off flavor. Unfortunately that was at 3pm on Christmas Eve, so it was too late to get a fat cap from a younger roast, so I just roasted as is.

                                                                    Rubbed with around 2.5 tablespoons of salt and let sit overnight. Salt had not been completely absorbed so I sponged it off. I guess after such long dry-aging it takes longer.

                                                                    Internal temperature was a little over 60 when I put it in the oven at around 1:45. Set the oven at 200 but the digital thermometer said it was about 25 degrees lower, so turned up to 225. Reached 117 in a little under 3.5 hours.

                                                                    I wrapped it in aluminum foil and a towel and put it in a box to take to our friends' house. When it was time to carve it maybe two hours later it had reached 135, a little more done than I wanted. I blasted the fat with a kitchen torch to crisp it.

                                                                    Needed a little salt, otherwise turned out great.

                                                                    4 Replies
                                                                    1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                      Nice job. I found that my with my roasts this year they seemed to hit temperature sooner than expected using 200*, and at the 3 hour mark. I still play with temperatures between 200-225 to see if there are any noticeable differences or benefits for choosing one setting, or the other, but I have not yet been able to do so.

                                                                      For the Fat Cap dilemma....in the future you can request simple fat scraps to lay atop or tie to the roast. One of my roast this year was trimmed too much by the butcher, so I requested some extra fat to tie to the roasts.

                                                                       
                                                                      1. re: fourunder

                                                                        I always feel like the temperature goes up faster at the end, but I did an XY chart of the time and temperature readings and it's linear.

                                                                        My butcher didn't have any fat scraps, they were cleaning up to close for the holiday. Went to another butcher, same deal, the only fat they had left was ground. If I'd picked it up the day before or even that morning it would have been no problem.

                                                                        1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                          For some reason, when I try to tell fourunder about my success yesterday it just won't print and go into that column. I am writing to you since it seems you tried it also and can pass it on for me. If she gets it maybe she can try reaching me, not sure what the problem is with her section on the slow cooking as she has responded to me before.

                                                                          1. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                                                                            Great to hear you had a positive result....andI just wanted to acknowledge I saw this post and for taking the time and extra effort for the kind thought...it is greatly appreciated.

                                                                            i would also appreciate if you could post your experience on the thread you are having difficulty with so others could benefit as well to gain confidence in the low and slow approach..

                                                                            Happy Holidays

                                                                    2. Another slam dunk as always, using the "enhanced Cook's/Fourunder" approach.

                                                                      10-lb, three rib Prime from Costco, dry-aged only five days. Not trimmed at all. Browned with torch then into 200F oven straight from fridge. I've discovered there's no benefit to letting it warm up at room temp. Hit 122F in about 3.5 hrs. Removed from oven and let sit about two hrs. Temp dropped to about 117. Back into 150F oven for two more hours until temp hit 122F again, then out, rested 10 min, carved. No bleeding, everything perfectly rare/med-rare except ends (which is fine for wife who likes med-well).

                                                                      Another perfect roast.

                                                                      8 Replies
                                                                      1. re: acgold7

                                                                        In my experience, the larger the roast, the bigger the difference letting it come to room temperature makes. Three ribs probably isn't big enough that it matters much.

                                                                        1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                          I've never found it makes any difference regardless of size. I mean, it's all about getting it to the target temperature, isn't it, and whether it gets there on the counter or in the oven doesn't seem to matter. Two hours on the counter or an hour in the oven just doesn't seem to matter in terms of evenness or anything else that I can tell.

                                                                          After a quick once-over with the torch, at 200 the oven is so low that I just don't see the benefit of letting it sit out. I suppose at higher oven temps there might be a difference.

                                                                          1. re: acgold7

                                                                            For a 10-pound roast, 200's probably low enough that it'll be done evenly.

                                                                            For a 22-pound roast, I'm dubious, and that's too expensive a piece of meat to experiment. Plus there's no room in my refrigerator for something that big anyway.

                                                                            1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                              But, but..... a 22-pounder isn't any thicker, just longer, so cooking times won't vary that much as the heat is mostly coming in from the sides, no?

                                                                              But I guess the fun of this is we each have our own ways, and good on ya if you like yours!

                                                                              1. re: acgold7

                                                                                This year will be a fun experiment, as we're doing two nearly identical whole Prime standing ribs, both about 18 pounds or so, one at home and one at our restaurant. One we'll do at home in a real restaurant Wolf converted for home use. We won't bring to room temp but will go straight in at 200F and see how long it takes to hit about 118F or so and how evenly it comes out after all the requisite holding of at least two hours using the modified Cook's/Fourunder method. I've found the sear, either before or after, sort of superfluous, at least cosmetically, as after this long in the oven the thing is pretty brown and crackly.

                                                                                Not much jus to this method, as others have noted, but that's okay. That's what Unilever is for.

                                                                                The other we'll do at our restaurant in one of our Alto-Shaams, these crazy things designed to do Prime Rib overnight. In it we will also go straight from the cooler, roast at 250 but will kick into holding mode at 100F as their manual recommends, and then hold at 140F for a minimum of six hours, also as it recommends, as the roast slowly creeps up to 130F internal. They say you can hold up to 24 hours like this, so we may start the night before.

                                                                                It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

                                                                                1. re: acgold7

                                                                                  Standing by for experiment results . . .

                                                                                  1. re: Melanie Wong

                                                                                    With due respect to acgold7....he can only aspire to finish what you did this year....

                                                                                    but knowing a little bit about the man...it's really not an experiment at all....an wish I was employed for a day just to have a slice as part of the company gathering.

                                                                                    1. re: Melanie Wong

                                                                                      Me too, actually. I wish it was today as I am drooling, reading about all of your results and dinners.

                                                                                      My home oven is always pretty spotless (it has to be for the videos) but we are taking apart and steam-cleaning the resto ovens today for Monday's feast...

                                                                        2. Robert, I have been trying to post and it won't come up. Do you have a contact for tech help or something - I can't find anywhere on this site to contact them.

                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                          1. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                                                                            If you can't post on the Site Talk board you can email moderators@chowhound.com

                                                                            1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                              I posted to you, that's what's strange, but my post to Four won't go through. But thanks, will try later.

                                                                              1. re: happygoluckyinoregon

                                                                                What about this method from our own people here at CH?
                                                                                As far as the cooking portion of this video it says to put the roast in the oven at 200 until the internal temp is 120. Take it out of the oven and let it rest for 1/2 an hour. Turn oven to 450 and put the roast in the oven 8-10 minutes until it is browned.

                                                                                http://www.chow.com/videos/show/the-e...

                                                                                1. re: SIMIHOUND

                                                                                  The method you have linked to is actually a method I followed for many years and exactly the same recipe featured by Cook's Illustrated for many years.....however, although an excellent result can be attained......if you subscribe to food safety and succumb to the beliefs of the food police, the recipe and method is flawed because it does not address the issue of bacteria that exists on the surface of the roast as noted by food studies made by the National Beef Council. To combat the issue it is recommended that the roast be seared first on top of the stove, the grill or with a high heat browning phase for 15 to 20 minutes at high temperature.

                                                                          2. I did my sear after the stand time - 6 minutes in a 500-degree oven, per Kenji at Serious Eats.

                                                                            1. I love that this discussion has been going on since Christmas Eve of 2006. That's SEVEN YEARS of refinement. It has to be some kind of record on Chow.
                                                                              Happy New Year to you all and let's hope this thread continues for at least another seven.

                                                                              2 Replies
                                                                              1. re: Big Eater

                                                                                Ahhh...proper approach to cooking the beast, let me count the ways!

                                                                                1. re: treb

                                                                                  The experimenting is fun unless you destroy it completely.

                                                                                  And then you cry.

                                                                                  But I think the good news is that if you are reasonably competent and follow a reasonably recent, reasonably well-written recipe from a reasonably accomplished cook/writer, your beast should come out reasonably well.

                                                                                  But you never reach the heights of excellence until you master the low-and-slow Fourunder method, which in itself is a refinement of a pretty great technique.

                                                                                  Once you "get" this, a whole new world opens. You have not lived until you apply this to virtually every meat ever made. Well, maybe not Foie Gras, but that's only because I haven't tried it yet. May well work. But Steaks? Tri-Tip? Chuck Roasts on the Grill? Oh yeah!

                                                                              2. 2013 edition: 8.5-lb. 4-rib Piemontese (Macgruder?) from Cafe Rouge. Despite my instructions to tie the fat cap back on they threw it out and trimmed the roast within an inch of its life, leaving no fat at all on some parts. Rubbed with 2 tbsp. salt the night before. They gave me some caul fat and I put that over the bare parts.

                                                                                Probe read 63 when I put the roast into a cold oven. Roasted around 210 and it hit 117 in two hours.

                                                                                Flavor was mild and somewhat disappointing, maybe because they switched from Niman to grass-finished. I guess I have to find a new source next year.

                                                                                1. So here's this year's report.

                                                                                  Bottom line, both roasts came out beautifully, as you'd expect. Minor findings: Don't try to outsmart either Fourunder or your fancy-shmancy computer controlled oven that costs more than a sports car.

                                                                                  As we noted above, both roasts were seven rib, Bone-In, Prime Standing Ribs from Costco in the Cryo, about 19 lbs. each. Both were Dry Aged by us for seven days. Both had been very closely trimmed, so even if we had felt like going through the effort of trimming off the dry bits after aging, there wasn't much left to trim off, and as they were pretty dry and crusty at that point, we had to wet them to get the seasonings to stick. The Home roast we wet with our concentrated homemade jus (premade but from scratch, as described on one of the other threads) but the Restaurant one we just wet with water.

                                                                                  We seasoned liberally with our own Seasoned Salt and Seasoned Pepper blends, kind of similar to Lawry's but in our opinion better.

                                                                                  Both roasts went directly into ovens straight from cooler, as we've never found bringing to room temp makes any difference regardless of roast size. Others will disagree.

                                                                                  We were after a perfect Medium Rare to Medium in the 125F-128F range, as that's how our guests like it. In the past we've had problems with being a little on the rare side.

                                                                                  So for the home roast we cooked at 225F with three digital probes in various places and averaged the temps as a guide. There was about a five degree spread between them. It took about five hours for the roast to go from 33F to 118F. Rather than take the roast out and let it sit, we just opened the oven door and turned the heat down to 140F and closed the door when we heard the thermostat click again to turn on the burner, indicating the temp had dropped below that point.

                                                                                  But we should have stuck to the Method and taken it out, as it did climb a bit higher than we wanted it to. But being Prime, it could tolerate a little more done-ness than originally planned. We ended up around 130F, evenly pink and very juicy throughout and everyone said it was the best Prime Rib they'd ever had. We did not do the final high-heat sear, as "painting" with the stock had given it a dark brown crusty coating that was perfect and the sear seemed unnecessary. Also, our Seasoning Salt, like Lawry's, has a bit of sugar in it which aids in browning (as do "browning agents" like Kitchen Bouquet).

                                                                                  Last night we did our Restaurant Staff Dinner with the second nearly identical roast. The directions that came with the oven -- which we use daily for Turkeys but which was really built to do Prime Rib -- say to roast at 250F, set the temp probe for 100F, and then let rest in the oven at 140F for four to six hours. Last year we ran out of time and we were contemplating doing it overnight -- which the manual recommends -- but frankly I was too tired after our guests left late Sunday to go into the store and start cooking so I just went in early yesterday morning and put it in then.

                                                                                  So I thought I could do a hybrid of the two methods. Yeah. Cooked at 250 but set probe to 118 and hold temp to 140. But the oven is so well insulated the roast shot up to 140 before it stabilized. It had only taken about four hours to go from 38F internal to 118, and then another two hours at a hold temp of 140 to go to 140 internal.

                                                                                  I thought we were (well) done-for.

                                                                                  Fortunately both the meat and this method are so forgiving that you basically are sneaking up on the done point. A high-heat method would have contracted the protein strands much more violently, squeezing out the moisture and toughening the meat, at least around the outside. But this method is so gentle that the meat, once we got about an inch in from the ends, was still very pink, amazingly juicy and as tender as any Prime Rib I've ever eaten -- and this from a guy who used to eat at the same (very famous) LA Prime Rib joint every night for two weeks when I was there on business several times a year, so I think I've had more than my share -- at least according to my cardiologist.

                                                                                  Again, nice crust from the seasoning mix made a final blast unnecessary in our case. Staff said it was the best roast they've ever had -- maybe they were just sucking up to the boss -- but I think we generated a bit of goodwill.

                                                                                  I am totally tempted to do yet another one following the oven's instructions to the letter to see if it can be made any better. Doubt it but I will sacrifice myself for science. Oh, the things I do for all of you!

                                                                                  29 Replies
                                                                                  1. re: acgold7

                                                                                    You are my hero.....not for your Prime Rib...but for your generosity to your staff and for your time to deicate to your videos and reports here..

                                                                                    Excellent job my fiend....and only kidding about the prime rib, of course.

                                                                                    1. re: fourunder

                                                                                      And I've been called a "fiend" by more than one....

                                                                                      And thanks to you for your refinements that make a good method great! Upon further reflection, I'm not only tempted to follow the exact specs from the oven's manual (necessitated by food codes) but also try even lower temps when doing for personal consumption, like 200F overnight cook with a 122F probe setting and a 135 hold. Could be interesting.

                                                                                      Let us know when you're out Bandon-way!

                                                                                      1. re: acgold7

                                                                                        sorry about that....or....was it really a typo?

                                                                                    2. re: acgold7

                                                                                      You can't significantly dry-age a rib roast after all the fat has been trimmed off. The fat is essential to the process, it protects the meat from the mold.

                                                                                      1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                        That's completely untrue. I've been doing this for more than 20 years and never had any mold at all grow on any surface, whether fat-covered or naked meat, even at up to 12 weeks or more. What about each naked fatless cut ends of the rib roast? Do you have mold growing on the ends of yours?

                                                                                        Preposterous. Ridiculous. You couldn't get mold to grow on them if you tried if your environment is correct. Maybe if you kept a wet towel on them (an archaic method now completely debunked). And sealed them in a Ziploc. In a steam room. In a filthy Gym. Under your armpit. After you inoculated them with a mold sample stolen from the biology lab or a hunk of blue cheese.

                                                                                        And you have your physics backwards as well as your chemistry and biology. The fat is, in fact, *less* permeable to water vapor than the meat fibers, so a roast that has had all of its fat removed will in fact dry-age *faster* than one which has a secure fat cap covering it. The meat will lose moisture faster and will shrink more, developing a tacky outer surface quicker and developing a hard outer shell later as more water evaporates, and resulting in more weight loss over the same period of time. It's easy to test; try it yourself and see, as I have over the years. Note that there isn't trimmable fat under the rib bones or, in the case of a boneless rib-eye, where the rib bones used to be. So this is utter nonsense.

                                                                                        Additionally, your statement makes no sense from a logical perspective. Either the fat is essential to the process or it protects the meat from mold, which is a safety issue. Possibly both, but they are not related. In reality it is neither, but you put it as if one leads to the other, when in fact this cannot be. Even if they were both true, the aging process -- which is in reality controlled decomposition -- cannot be the result of preventing mold from forming on the surface of the meat. Preventing mold does not cause the meat to age.

                                                                                        And I don't think anyone said *all* the fat had been trimmed off ours. Only that the roasts had been so closely trimmed that there "wasn't much" left to take off, even if I had felt like putting in the effort, which I didn't.

                                                                                        1. re: acgold7

                                                                                          Some utter nonsense from Harold McGee:

                                                                                          http://gizmodo.com/5866754/the-scienc...

                                                                                          1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                            The fat is not essential to the process...it only protects meat from drying... any meat that is exposed dries out and that should be trimmed off before preparing, but in itself, while it may be unpleasant to eat, it is not hurtful in any way to consume. Bacteria does aid in the breakdown of the meat...and the mold can be a result...but the controlled process is about the enzymes, not the mold.

                                                                                            Whatever Sub-primal, or parts of, are being dry aged....meat is exposed.

                                                                                            1. re: fourunder

                                                                                              Well, OK, I exaggerated. The fat cap isn't essential to the aging process, only to not wasting very expensive beef by letting it dry out. I've never seen a butcher trim prime rib until after they finished dry-aging it.

                                                                                              1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                Well that's certainly true, but in the case of acgold7's specifics were that his Two 7-Rib Roasts were Cryovacs purchased from Costco, not a butcher...and in such a case, trimming techniques can, and often are poor from the processing plants.

                                                                                                1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                  I think a lot of "butchers" bring in "heavy" sub primals but retailers with "meat cutters" often bring in "Light" sub primals which have a much smaller fat cap.

                                                                                                  Most age on the bone to protect one side and as you say leave the cap on to protect the other side.

                                                                                                  1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                    The butchers I patronize have direct relationships with ranchers (or in one case their own ranch), and the prime rib roasts in the aging cooler have thick fat caps.

                                                                                                    1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                      My buddy brings in hanging beef which is pretty much the same deal.....age bone in w/heavy fat cap & trim out after aging.

                                                                                                      He brought in a whole 115 lb "high" prime drop loin from NYC for me this summer and hung it for a month. Not cheap by any means ($799.00 ) but every bite was Peter Luger quality at about a 1/10 the price.

                                                                                                  2. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                    >>>Well, OK, I exaggerated<<<

                                                                                                    That is an understatement.

                                                                                                  3. re: fourunder

                                                                                                    Hey Fourunder,

                                                                                                    To cold and snowy to go out, going to re-heat about a 2 pound piece of rare eye round (currently in fridge) for thin sliced roast beef sandwiches. I want to re-heat and keep it hot pink with a last minute pour of hot gravy over the top.

                                                                                                    I know I saw something from you on re-heating beef but I forget where and ever increasing amounts of bourbon don't seem to be helping me find it. Any thought? Thanks.

                                                                                                    1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                      To avoid further cooking of nice rare beef, I slice what I want, then seal in a ZipLoc and put in a hot water bath, or wrap tightly in foil, heat the oven to 150 degrees, put in the packet, and turn off the heat.

                                                                                                      1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                        oops...did not mean to offend...I did not see your post before I began to reply to Tom.....but in my defense, if you have read anything from me in the past....I have a very dry sense of humor...apologies.

                                                                                                        1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                          I cook a lot of "whole" cheaper cuts for thin slicing. Next time I will have to allow whats left to cool, thin slice & vacuum seal in small batches & try the hot bath warm up. That would also be convenient for my wife as cooking is not her thing.

                                                                                                        2. re: Tom34

                                                                                                          Tom...fret not, your mind is still intact and due to my laziness and and old age from having been opined on the silly First Date Thread currently on the NAF, that I was born in the 1800s and over 100 years old(yes, the girl was very bright with her math skills)...I forgot to post, so that's the reason why you could not find it.

                                                                                                          This past Christmas, I prepared 3 Prime Rib Roasts and a Leg of Lamb. since there was plenty of meat, a small 4+ pound 2-Rib Roast was not touched. While I did two separate tests in reheating, they were both similar in respects, only one was done @ 225*, and the other was done at 250*. The 2-Rib Roast was simply cut in half.

                                                                                                          The 225* re-heat was done first, using an old Restaurant method, placing it in a Saute/Fry Pan and into a pre-heated 225*, A few leaves of lettuce was placed over the exposed surface area of the Prime Rib. This is the trick old timers used to use,(and probably still do) to reheat leftover Prime Rib. The meat was 59* when placed into the oven. I watched the digital read thermometer at 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes. I checked under the lettuce to see the color of the meat at, 30, 45 and 60 minutes.....There was no noticeable difference in color to make it appear more gray than pink. At the end of 70 minutes, the thermometer only read 106*

                                                                                                          The second piece, the same process...only 250* was used. At the end of 70 minutes, the internal temperature was 116*....no real noticeable color change and and the meat did not cook up.

                                                                                                          My conclusion is...don't waste your time with sous-vide or running water and the cost of a bag... simply stick it in the oven. The meat does not cook up.

                                                                                                          Have a look at the pictures.

                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          1. re: fourunder

                                                                                                            Hey thanks Fourunder. Ovens on now. Pictures look great. Nice looking meat & $15.99 is not bad for prime in late 2013.

                                                                                                            Awesome Yorkshire. Many people do it in muffin tins but it looks like you did it the same way my mom taught me......"super heat the drippings, pour the batter right into the drippings, back into the oven and don't open the door and peak". Crazy rich & delicious. Won't find that on many tables these days.

                                                                                                            1. re: fourunder

                                                                                                              Wow. Really beautiful and I'll keep this in mind as well.

                                                                                                              One thing we do when we need to do an emergency reheat on our birds that we find also works with beef: Heat stock or jus to simmering in a large skillet, turn off heat, wait thirty seconds to a minute. Temp will drop to around 160F or so. Lay slices of meat in stock, dipping and turning frequently. Stock temp will drop quickly and won't cook the meat at all. After a few turns, meat can be laid down into stock and will be nice and warm and juicy after a few minutes. Works with Prime Rib, Tenderloin and Turkey, all pretty well.

                                                                                                              1. re: acgold7

                                                                                                                Thanks. I actually saw a chef at our CC do something similar for a Thanksgiving Day service...Portions of stuffing were placed in hotel pans and pre hand cut turkey was placed on top. Over the that cloth napkins were place over to keep from drying.. the portions were kept on the stove top and holding ovens and periodically spritzed. When ready for serving, hot stock was poured over and after a short time, plated and gravy added. Not on complaint was received....btw...you can post on my thread and I'll welcome your contribution and expertise....

                                                                                                        3. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                          >>>Some utter nonsense from Harold McGee:<<<

                                                                                                          Thanks for posting the link to the McGee article about dry-aging. I was hoping you'd snip a quote from it supporting your assertion, but since you didn't I read the whole article in hopes of finding one, as I am a huge McGee fan and have all his books and respect him greatly.

                                                                                                          Imagine my disappointment to find that the article actually uses the word "mold" in exactly two places, and neither one is in the context of fat, so the article does not in any way support your assertion -- only that mold can "sometimes" develop if you screw up the process by opening the cooler door a lot and letting the humidity levels get all messed up. Absolutely nothing you said is true and the McGee article supports exactly none of it.

                                                                                                          It doesn't say that either the absence of mold *or* the presence of fat is necessary for the dry aging process and it certainly doesn't say that preventing mold is required to facilitate dry-aging, as you said, or that fat prevents mold, as you said, or that mold is inevitable without it, as you did.

                                                                                                          People read these boards for useful info, and you should be more careful before you spout off wildly and inaccurately about stuff without any basis in fact.

                                                                                                          But thanks for the citation. And seriously, thanks for at least starting this thread about a truly great method of roasting -- I think it may have helped a lot of people have great holidays over the years. I've been doing it, basically, this way since CI first wrote it up in their Charter Issue in 1995 and have never looked back.

                                                                                                          1. re: acgold7

                                                                                                            I used to use a spare refrigerator in the basement with the sub primal sitting on a wire rack over a sheet pan. Door rarely got opened. Never got mold, just hard crust.

                                                                                                            Now I use a small commercial counter top beverage fridge that has a big continues duty compressor, internal fan to circulate the air & an insulated glass door. The glass door allows me to see the progress & the little thermometer I set on the shelf without opening the door. The products that are being aged are the only things in the fridge during the process. When done, I unplug it, wipe it out & prop the door open. These little units are portable, can be had used at a good price, last forever and should help remove the fear factor for those new to aging. Being a beverage fridge, it is sized/shelved to hold 90 beers, chills them super fast and the continues duty compressor & fan keeps them cold no matter how many times friends open the door. It sees a lot of deck time during the summer.

                                                                                                            1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                              >>>I used to use a spare refrigerator in the basement with the sub primal sitting on a wire rack over a sheet pan. Door rarely got opened. Never got mold, just hard crust. <<<

                                                                                                              Exactly what I do, with exactly the same result. If aging less than a few days, no trimming is even necessary.

                                                                                                              Only once got some greenish slime in the early days when I followed someone's advice to keep a damp towel over the meat. Never again.

                                                                                                              1. re: acgold7

                                                                                                                The towel / cheese cloth method seemed to be gospel early on but has been highly criticized in recent years for the reasons you mentioned. In addition to your personal experience, I am sure you have read the same criticisms of that method I have and while I am not a chemist, the technical arguments against coverings seem pretty sound to me.

                                                                                                            2. re: acgold7

                                                                                                              I didn't say most of those things.

                                                                                                              Trimming the fat off before you dry-age a big hunk of prime rib is stupid because when it's done you'll have to trim off meat that would have been perfectly good if you'd left the fat on so you could trim that instead.

                                                                                                              1. re: Robert Lauriston

                                                                                                                That makes perfect sense.

                                                                                                                It's not at all what you said before, but it does make perfect sense.

                                                                                                          2. re: acgold7

                                                                                                            A few people who likely knew little or nothing about basic food safety probably made text book temp mistakes, (prior to, during or after) aging beef, got terribly sick or worse & all the sudden its not safe to age beef at home. Like you say, blue cheese injection, arm pit or even sprinkled with toe jam and you won't get mold in a fridge at the proper temp.

                                                                                                            The ageing process was likely an accidental discovery and does not require an advanced Chemistry degree. Work clean @ safe temps & your fine.

                                                                                                            As you pointed out, fat cap and bones are often left on to reduce trimming lean after the fact. Many steakhouses render aged kidney fat into their steak butter for added flavor.

                                                                                                            1. re: Tom34

                                                                                                              Or you can do it old school. 19th century style...
                                                                                                              From http://highlightsfromthegirlsownpaper...

                                                                                                              I will now give you a few hints about hanging up meat and game. First, be careful that the hooks on which you hang the meat are scrupulously clean. As meat-hooks in the larder are often fixtures, I prefer to use the double iron hooks to hang the meat on. These double hooks can be hung on to the fixed hooks. The reason that I prefer the double hooks is that they can be more easily kept clean and disinfected. Wash the hooks thoroughly in boiling water, then dip them in a solution of Condy’s fluid before passing the hooks through the meat.

                                                                                                              In hot or damp weather wipe the meat dry then powder it well all over with a mixture of flour and black pepper, being careful to powder well under the flaps and creases of the meat. The meat should be examined each day, and any part which may have become fly-blown cut away.

                                                                                                              The rule for hanging meat is to pass the hook through the sinewy part, and allow the meat to hang with the heaviest part downwards. This prevents the drip of blood which would result if the hook were passed through a fleshy part of the meat. All joints should be hung in an airy part of the larder, not over a shelf or near the wall.

                                                                                                              Winged game should be hung by a string attached to one leg. By adopting this plan you spread out the wings and legs, and also, as the feathers are reversed, it allows the air to circulate more freely round the bird. Before being hung up, the bird should be well peppered round the vent, under the wings and legs, and round any parts which may have been shot. The birds should be examined daily.