352857 Tue Dec 19 20:10:58 -0800 2006 23 29 Not About Food 0 2113684 Could someone explain to me the difference between a sous chef; a chef de cuisine and an executive chef? And are there other deliniations to know about? Clearly, a pastry chef is an obvious one. Thanks! Tue Dec 19 20:10:58 -0800 2006 13020 fullbelly 1 2113774 Executive Chef is the head chef in the kitchen and sous chef is the chef that works for the Executive Chef--sort of the Executive Chef's personal assistant. Chef de Cuisine is a type of Executive Chef, like a department manager. It all depends on the kitchen, but sous chef is definitely someone who is the "worker bee", but not the lowest rank in the kitchen. Tue Dec 19 20:35:30 -0800 2006 2113684 59597 foodie_girl 2 4396319 Sous chef is second in command and is usually running the kitchen but is not on the management team. Sometimes a chef will let a Sous Chef create a dish. It depends on the Chef and the kitchen. Often the Chef (de Cuisine) will only expedite in a busy kitchen when the kitchen is serving. However, the buck stops with the chef and he's the one that trains everyone. So, depending on the chef, the Sous (under) Chef can have lots of responsibility or just some. But he's the second in command. In the European model, the Chef also controls the dining room through his captain, waiters, etc. In the American model, one has a manager and/or a captain. Just thought I'd throw that in. Now-a-days, I think most restaurants have managers and the Chef stays out of the front of the house. Sat Feb 07 12:42:19 -0800 2009 2113774 264145 Mark LaPolla 1 2113820 Here's a breakdown of the traditional stations in the brigade kitchen, created by Escoffier (many of these stations are combined in modern kitchens, with one person wearing more than one hat): Chef de Cuisine - Manager of the kitchen and kitchen staff. Executive chef - Highest level possible. Usually with diploma or certificate, often more time spent doing organization and paperwork than actually cooking. Coordinates all kitchen functions Head chef - The person in authority in the kitchen. Title refers to those who have professional cooks working for them. Working chef - In charge of the kitchen in smaller establishments. Does the duties of a chef as well as being responsible for part or all of a station. Sous Chef - Second in Command. Responsible for the physical operation of the kitchen, including supervision as well as preparation. Chefs de Parti: Saucier: fish, sautéed dishes, stews, hot hors d'ouevers, hot entrees and sauces. Commands after the sous chef. Rotissieur: Prepares items roasted in the oven and on the spit. Works under the Saucier. Friturier: fry cook - responsible for deep fried foods. Works under the Saucier. Grillardin: responsible for grilled foods. Works under the Saucier. Garde Manger: Processes raw meat, cold dishes, forcemeat, pies, galantines and cold hors d'ouevres. Next in line after the saucier for command. Charcutier, and Butcher: work under the Garde Manger Entremetre: Vegetable cook, responsible for soups (sometimes saucier does this), vegetables, pasta, and foods made of flour, eggs and cheese.. Potager: soup cook, originally was under the supervision of the Entremetier Patissier: Pastry chef: all basic desserts, hot desserts, cold desserts, frozen desserts and hot and cold pastries. Boulanger and Glacier: work under the Patissier Other cooking stations are Tournant (swing cook), de Garde (duty chef), de Nuit (night chef), Banquet chef, etc. Commis: assistants to the chefs de partie. Usually journeyman cooks. Apprentices: training in each of the parties in turn to learn the entire kitchen. Tue Dec 19 20:46:39 -0800 2006 2113684 23415 pescatarian 2 2118123 Fantastique. Bravo! Thu Dec 21 00:22:23 -0800 2006 2113820 10811 Das Ubergeek 2 4396285 I'd just like to chime in here and say that Executive Chef is not a traditional title. It's new and was created for larger kitchens and multiple restaurants. For example, Wolf Gang puck is the executive chef for all his restaurants but each restaurant has a chef de cuisine to do the cooking, managing etc. Usually, a chef does the expediting in a restaurant and may reserve some cooking for himself. It depends on the personality. Chef means chief in French. That is Chief of the Kitchen or Head of the Kitchen. Most chefs (de cuisine), unless they trained before schools were readily available, have diplomas of one type or another. But diplomas or certificates do not a chef make. Experience does. A Master Chef, on the other hand, is actually like a Master in Wine or a Master of Science or a Master of Art. Not only do you have to have a diploma, that is a BA, but then have to train further talking more courses etc. Executive chef is basically an inflation of titles. When you have more than one restaurants, you're a restauranteur. When you have a large catering firm, you're a busy chef. An example of this sort of inflation of titles is that now we have Executive Pastry Chefs. No matter. The title is useful. And mind you, I got this sentence directly off of jobprofiles.org: "An executive chef works directly under the chef de cuisine and creates recipes, controls costs and performs administrative tasks, among other responsibilities." They say, as I was taught, that the chef de cuisine is the highest title possible. So, it's not as cut and dried as one would think. Sat Feb 07 12:32:06 -0800 2009 2113820 264145 Mark LaPolla 3 4397366 In practice, at least in the US, executive chef is higher than chef de cuisine. Executive chefs might oversee multiple outlets or properties, so you might have a hotel with one executive chef and five F&B outets, each with their own chef de cuisine, sous chefs, etc. Likewise, executive pastry chef jobs are generally at large hotels or multi-unit restaurants where there may be several sous and a lot more organizational issues. Sat Feb 07 21:29:16 -0800 2009 4396285 13150 babette feasts 4 4398360 Note that that's where I started with Executive Chef over CdC. However, Executive Chef, as I said, is title inflation. The head of a kitchen or set of kitchens is the chef. One note here, when I was in high tech, we used to say you have to -1 from all titles in marketing. So, a VP of marketing == a director in engineering. Thus, for Executive Chef vs Chef de Cuisine it really is the same. You have to have the skill to manage multiple kitchens but I've seen Executive Chefs who manage small operations. One kitchen etc. Same for the now complete inflated Executive Pastry Chef. As a matter of fact, many restaurants don't even bother with a Pastry Chef. Having said that, titles are useful because they are titles. Who are they useful to? The business owners. Sun Feb 08 11:25:20 -0800 2009 4397366 264145 Mark LaPolla 5 4399449 You are right, I was responding to your quote from jobprofiles.com. Just because it is on the internet doesn't make it true. As a pastry chef, I am well aware that not all restaurants employ a full time pastry chef. Is that supposed to make the title meaningless? I can't tell if there was supposed to be a point there, and if so I am curious what it was. Have you worked in restaurants or are you just an enthusiast? Sun Feb 08 19:02:21 -0800 2009 4398360 13150 babette feasts 1 2113823 Perfect! Thank you for that! Tue Dec 19 20:47:32 -0800 2006 2113684 13020 fullbelly 2 2113831 you're welcome! Tue Dec 19 20:49:10 -0800 2006 2113823 23415 pescatarian 1 2115413 Chez amandine... Chef de cuisine: Mom Sous chef: moi Rotisseur: big brother "Mangeur": Dad Wed Dec 20 05:52:29 -0800 2006 2113684 11504 amandine 2 4398857 Exactement. Sun Feb 08 15:08:26 -0800 2009 2115413 264145 Mark LaPolla 3 4407349 Don't forget the the important positon of "plunge" or dishwasher in the classic french brigade, if this guy does not show things go downhill quickly Wed Feb 11 10:20:05 -0800 2009 4398857 102263 jscott65 4 4407431 Please explain Chef Tournant. Wed Feb 11 10:46:11 -0800 2009 4407349 90359 PattiCakes 5 4407534 In American kitchen this person would be know as a rounds cook or roundsman meaning he would cover any station or shift in the kitichen, grill, saute, fish, but not usually pastry. Wed Feb 11 11:22:37 -0800 2009 4407431 102263 jscott65 6 4407722 where does this fit in the kitchen hierarchy? Wed Feb 11 12:15:31 -0800 2009 4407534 90359 PattiCakes 7 4407845 It would be under Chef de Parti, a Tournant would eventualy aspire to move up and run a station, or be Chef de Parti Wed Feb 11 12:44:17 -0800 2009 4407722 102263 jscott65 1 4409657 Have you seen Ratatouille? Watch Ratatouille. How have you not seen Ratatouille?! Wed Feb 11 22:50:08 -0800 2009 2113684 109936 Hegenbarth 2 4410062 Because if you look at the date of the OP, Ratatouille wasn't out yet. :-) Thu Feb 12 06:39:23 -0800 2009 4409657 10532 LindaWhit 3 4419266 Holy guacamole, I never even looked at the date. You are one smart chica, Ms. Linda! Sun Feb 15 10:27:11 -0800 2009 4410062 90359 PattiCakes 4 4419990 Yes, another zombie has risen from the dead. However, it is a worthwhile zombie, with good points. The date of the OP is one thing being discussed on Site Talk. Often, the zombies are of far less use, than this one. "Help me plan my rehersal dinner... " from July 1843. Then, in 2009, someone posts a few recs. Good zombie! Really useful points, well worth re-readin, even if some of those replying have not been back to CH in years. Hunt PS I did not catch the date, until LindaWhit pointed it out. [Grin] Sun Feb 15 16:09:24 -0800 2009 4419266 11329 Bill Hunt 5 4420018 I can see you patting the Good Zombie on its head, Bill, like a particularly favored pet. Good Zombie! ::::pat, pat, pat::::: And I think the only reason I caught the date was I remembered reading it several years ago, and thought it sounded familiar. Sun Feb 15 16:21:59 -0800 2009 4419990 10532 LindaWhit 6 4420378 if you keep saying "pat, pat, pat", I'll think you are talking to me. Sun Feb 15 18:53:47 -0800 2009 4420018 90359 PattiCakes