348958 Thu Dec 07 03:03:32 -0800 2006 17 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 2077347 Does anyone know what the standard beverage etiquette is for an evening? For example, what are the cocktails that one has before dinner and even before hors 'douvres, are they hard alcohol based, like gin or vodka? And then I would presume that the diner switches to wine with his meal and then sherry, cognac, or dessert wine with dessert and coffee? Anyone have any insight on this? And is beer generally reserved for informal occasions? Thanks! Thu Dec 07 03:03:32 -0800 2006 51885 pixee22 1 2077447 I don't know that there's any hard rule for this, most people probably just drink what they enjoy. I've always enjoyed starting with champagne or bubbly of some kind. I think the words you're looking for are aperitif and digestif. Aperitif is to get your appetite going and drunk before the meal, something like Lillet maybe, campari and soda, pastis (licorice flavored liquer), fino sherry (dry light sherry best chilled). A lot of aperitifs are a little bitter to get the saliva glands going. From there, I prefer to move onto wine with my meal, although I don't see any reason to not drink beer with food. Beer's great with food! Digestifs are for after dinner, to help aid in the digestion of all the great food you just had. They include some things that I would often have in place of dessert like Vin Santo or Port. Sherry (although maybe more of an Oloroso style), whiskey, armagnac, etc. are all considered digestifs. Coffee and tea aren't traditional but I like them just as well. One of the best meals of my life was at a restaurant in Paris which started with a glass of Champagne, moved on to white then red wines with the meal, cheese and more wine, dessert with what was probably sauternes or muscat although I was too young to know or appreciate it, then a few chocolates then coffee. It took 4 hours to eat but it was amazing and I didn't feel one bit bloated at the end. Thu Dec 07 03:53:31 -0800 2006 2077347 11559 nagrom 1 2077488 Some people feel that hard alcohol numbs the taste buds and therefore don't consider it an appropriate aperitif. For the meal, both food and wine generally start out light and go towards heavy. A light white with the fish course, then red with red meat. Fresh appropriate glasses for each new wine. Thu Dec 07 04:16:40 -0800 2006 2077347 13150 babette feasts 2 2077565 I was taught the following rule: plan food heaviest to lightest and alcohol lightest to heaviest. Make sense? Thu Dec 07 05:09:16 -0800 2006 2077488 24075 onefineleo 3 2081353 so you'd have tenderloin before consomme? i know my palate prefers a progression. Fri Dec 08 13:27:46 -0800 2006 2077565 30273 hotoynoodle 3 2199708 That sounds reversed to me, and "alcohol lightest to heaviest"... that is not to suggest starting out with a wine spritzer and ending the night with a martini?! Wed Jan 17 23:25:05 -0800 2007 2077565 14412 wontonton 1 2081351 fewer people drink hard alcohol with meals these days. general trend towards temperance, concerns about drinking and driving, etc. if you're the host, it's certainly up to you to determine the beverage sequence. as mentioned above, spirits do tend to deaden the palate. something less high in alcohol with a touch of acidity or a slightly bitter edge (champagne, sherry, campari) are great starters. move on to wine with dinner. the percentage of people who actually consume digestifs is quite small. a nice alternative is a demi-sec champagne. personally, i'd reserve beer for a cook-out. Fri Dec 08 13:26:31 -0800 2006 2077347 30273 hotoynoodle 2 2081477 You obviously don't know my friends. Not much in the way of temperance there, but also no drunk driving, I hasten to add. Taxis all the way. I actually prefer beer to many wines. When I say beer, I mean micro brewed beers, not the gut rot inducing, laden with chemicals swill we get from some of the big producers. One of the benefits of living in Ontario is that we have a plethora of small brewers available, all of them dedicated to the creation of quality beer. A nice crisp Pilsener goes beautifully with fish, a darker Ale works just fine with most meat courses. A dark, bitter stout balances the sweetness of a braise in a way few wines manage. So at our dinner parties I do offer wine to those who prefer it, but increasingly I will also have a couple of beers paired to the food. I treat those much like wine, with fresh glasses and chilled to the correct temperature. Fri Dec 08 14:48:13 -0800 2006 2081351 16537 andreas 1 2081600 We entertain on a very casual basis only, but I have noticed that many people 1) prefer not to drink hard liqour (unless they are the confirmed don't-drink-wine-or-beer types, and I already know who they are and provide their cocktail of choice) and 2) prefer to more or less stick to either wine or beer for the evening. I like to try new cocktails but I found my guests just weren't interested so I don't bother anymore. We and many friends are beer lovers, so we generally have at least two local brews on hand in different styles - it's fun to introduce people to something new - plus Stella which for some reason seems to be a crowd pleaser. And maybe corona in the summer - yeah I know, but people seem to like it. Fri Dec 08 15:34:43 -0800 2006 2077347 12120 julesrules 2 2082839 Next time you see a bottle of Stella, take a look at the ingredients list. Yes, it's another rice beer, a Budweiser in a posh bottle. That stuff is a cancer, it's absolutely everywhere because people see it as a premium product. Nothing could be further from the truth in my opinion. Fri Dec 08 20:55:36 -0800 2006 2081600 16537 andreas 1 2081636 I am woefully lax in the complementary beverage category. My contribution when I'm cooking at home is usually to introduce a couple of different wine choices. My parents, who were far better hosts than I'll ever be, typically offered something like Dubonnet Rouge or exceptionally dry white pre-dinner, then large carafes of red and white on the table during dinner, and either scotch cocktails or brandy afterward. Fri Dec 08 15:46:25 -0800 2006 2077347 49959 thegolferbitch 1 2186302 I, too, must question the contributor who states, “Fewer people drink hard alcohol with meals these days; general trend towards temperance.” May I respectfully request on which planet you reside? OK: that’s my 30-years-in-Manhattan attitude speaking. But I left that behind in 2001 and now live in one of Europe’s grand capitals. Alcohol is such a part of life here, its consumption is rarely questioned and certainly not guided by a “general trend toward temperance!” It’s not at all unusual to see a bunch of construction workers knocking back the first beer of the day at a morning break. Anyway, I digress. Before dinner, I always offer some kind of hors d’ouvres or munchies: cheese sticks and an array of olives are de rigueur (and always kept on hand!). Maybe a platter of smoked fish (I am suddenly craving a plate of smoked trout with huge caper berries and lemon wedges), certainly some fruit, cheese, crudités. Depending on how formal the occasion, I will have on hand prosecco or Champagne, a light white wine, and the basic classic cocktails (Manhattan, Bronx, Martini, Negroni, etc.). Anything more complicated and/or involving a blender or cream (White Russians, Frozen Margaritas, Daquiris, etc.) should be reserved for the beach or as dessert! Wines at table vary with the number and content of courses. If I start with a soup or consommé, I usually offer a small glass of a nice Madeira. A fish course takes a white wine, but one judged accordingly by the delicacy and preparation of the fish. A sliver of poached salmon wants something light and astringent; tuna carpaccio wants something bold and “chewy.” A palette cleanser is a nice idea and fun on special occasions. I especially like a basil and lemon granita, or, after a particularly fishy fish course, a Campari and pink grapefruit sorbet. Graitas are nice and easy, since all you need is some room in your freezer, a metal ice cube tray and a fork. For a very small amount of work, they garner a lovely, usually surprised reception when brought to table. A main course featuring beef or game must have an appropriate red wine, opened to give it sufficient breathing time and/or decanted. Poultry can go either to red or white – I like a nice light red with a roasted chicken. Traditionally, a salad is next, and that is the one part of the meal served without alcohol (although there may be some in the dressing)! Be careful with dessert wines. The best ones are insanely expensive but well worth it. The sugar content in the wine may clash horribly with the sugar or fruit in a dessert. I tend to offer a glass of a rich, sweet Sauternes or Trockenberenausleese before the dessert itself. Then dessert, coffee and tea, and then a selection of brandies, Port, Cognac, etc. And if anyone is still hanging around after all that, it's time to bring out the best whiskeys (and maybe start thinking about serving breakfast!). Beer? Maybe with sushi or Mexican food (and then always a Kirin or a Tecate!) or chili (which should be sufficiently hot and spicy that you won’t even notice the taste of the beer – all that matters is the temperature). Or maybe with fried chicken. I believe it was Miss Manners who, when asked which foods are appropriately eaten with the fingers, replied: Asparagus and fried chicken, but no one would ever serve fried chicken at a diner party! - Mrs. K. Sat Jan 13 23:58:48 -0800 2007 2077347 66729 Mrs.Keenlyside 2 2190245 i've worked in boston in fine dining restaurants for 17 years. the difference in how people drink "then and now" is quite noticeable. business lunches "used" to start with martinis or scotches (often several) and then at least one bottle of wine. that is no longer the case. most times, if the host doesn't order a drink, everybody else sticks to soft drinks too. dinner time, people usually begin with a glass of wine or one of those ridiculous frou-frou-sex-in-the-city cocktails. hardly anybody knows how to drink gin or bourbon anymore! they'll have wine with dinner, but frequently a 4-top will decline a 2nd bottle, fearing it will be "too much." after dinner drinks are not commonly consumed, because people are worried about drinking and driving. comparing how people drink in europe and the states is silly, and you know that. culture there has always had a different attitude about drinking than that in the united states. however, european countries are now cracking down on d.u.i.'s as well, and restaurant consumption of wine and spirits is down markedly. personally? i'm a sommelier, most of my friends are in the business, and yes, we have cocktails, white, then red, then usually something after also. but we don't drink like most of our customers do. but being in the business as long as i have, i dare say i have a pretty good insight into how people drink. Mon Jan 15 15:34:57 -0800 2007 2186302 30273 hotoynoodle 1 2190299 Keep the alcohol coming is the secret of any successful dinner party. Mon Jan 15 15:56:42 -0800 2007 2077347 12630 beevod 1 2190445 At my parties I usually have a fully stocked bar that accommodates all guests. My signature drink, the Side Car usually is the drink of choice. At dinner,which is always a big production, wine or a good beer is poured, it just depends on the meal. For dessert, most of my friends are ready for a good coffee which is the perfect ending anyway I think. Mon Jan 15 16:36:13 -0800 2007 2077347 50431 chef chicklet 2 2228082 Would you care to please share your Side Car recipe? It's the one cocktail I truly love but have never quite mastered. I can't seem to get the right balance. What's your secret? Thu Jan 25 20:08:33 -0800 2007 2190445 66729 Mrs.Keenlyside 1 2198452 For PARTY parties with food, I'll serve whatever cocktails people want, then wine with the meal. For a proper dinner party, my own taste is for a light aperitif with hors d'ouvres, wine with the meal, brandy or other interesting alcohol offered with espresso with or after dessert. In practice, that varies all over the map depending on who's eating here: some guests expect cocktails and don't mind letting me know that, and since we're probably close relatives I'm not going to refuse them! Wed Jan 17 19:12:09 -0800 2007 2077347 11478 Will Owen 1 2199725 I prefer a hard alchohol cocktail before dinner (martini or scotch) and then will move on to wine with dinner if a bottle is to be shared at the table. If not, I'm happy with another cocktail through the meal, or maybe a beer. Wed Jan 17 23:28:20 -0800 2007 2077347 14412 wontonton