How do you comfortably eat osso buco in front of a vegetarian?
We are going out to dinner at an Italian restaurant with another couple. Although we know them socially, this is the first time we've gone to dinner with them. She is a vegetarian and doesn't drink. I was single for a long time so I'm used to non-mainstream type dining companions but I'm starting to have the willies over what I'm going to order. Eating out has ALWAYS been a treat to me and I don't want to have to throttle my menu choices. I'm starting to feel self-conscious about ordering a BIG meat dish and drinking a few glasses of wine. Am I being foolish? Is this just really a case of mind over matter?
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I always bring a raw carrot with me--just in case, and lay it on the table next to my fork. I also let my companions know my own tastes: my love for vegetables, and how sad it makes me to see people eat them. After all they deserve to live too, no?
Since I live in Manhattan, I keep the carrot with me. I never know when I'll meet a horse who'd love an unexpected carrot.
No, but seriously, do let your friends know you respect their feelings and that you hope yours won't offend them. No harm in that.
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I liked all your replies but I HAVE faced a problem. Was out to dinner with relatives and the woman sitting next to me said that "if I ordered my steak very rare (the way I eat it) it would make her sick to see the red juices". I looked around the table and asked someone to change seats with her. I think she was a bit startled (she is younger than me by 20 years) that she couldn't bend me to her will so to speak but she never did THAT again. She was very involved with PETA as well and attacked me right before the dinner because I was wearing a "fur" coat. It happened to be fake but you can see where she was coming from.
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re: Linda VH
perhaps her issue w/ blood is the reason why she's a vegetarian. why does it make more sense to cook the meat to an unrecognizable form, instead of enjoying it for what it is? doesn't that respect the animal less? perhaps she should work on a small farm for a while so she can understand the cycle of life and why humans (as omnivores) eat other animals.
my father had a farm while I was growing up and although it was sad to kill the cows after 2 years, it was healthier and tastier than buying from the supermarket, and it also anchored me to the idea of where meat comes from. which brings us back to the much-debated issue of why fake "meat" for vegetarians. if you have an issue w/meat, why eat fake "meat?" that's like wearing fake fur if you are really against it.
BTW I love the idea of vegetarianism, in the sense of cutting down on meat. last year I lived mostly w/out cooking meat at home for various reasons. me and my SO ate very well, as I used all kinds of vegetables, legumes, etc in traditional forms. it's less expensive and more eco-friendly, but it gets so so wrapped up in people's delusions sometimes.
Thank you for allowing me to rant -
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My sister is a vegetarian, not to mention a somewhat crazy and deluded -- but nonetheless good-hearted -- animal rights activist. She's about as extreme as you get (for example, she doesn't think people should take pictures of animals because she thinks it's degrading to them). And even she realizes that it’s not reasonable to expect everyone to order vegetarian just because she does. If you can eat meat in front of her, you can eat it in front of anyone.
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Scagnetti
Dec 8, 2006 09:00 PM
I'M REPORTING BACK!
The dinner went very well but the vegetarian eats like a bird! She ate a half order of pasta primavera and some dessert, which was damn good.
The rest of us indulged in wine, pastas, salads, fish, and chicken.
The husband put me at rest when he ate some mortadella that was brought to us gratis even before we had looked at a menu.
Thanks for all of the replies, they did put my mind at ease.
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re: Karl S
Thank you, Karl S., the voice of reason. Vegetarians are bothered only by the need of everyone they know to talk about and question their vegetarianism. My daughter doesn't care that her cousins eat meat, just that they have asked her about and challenged her on not eating it, every family dinner since she could eat!
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choctastic
Dec 8, 2006 01:47 AM
seriously if she's a nice person she won't care what you eat as long as you don't make her eat stuff she doesn't want. i was in her shoes once. if you're really desperate you can do the "reel her in" approach which involves not eating things like chicken feet or pig trotters straight off, but instead starting with i don't know roast chicken? pasta? personally i like the "sink or swim" approach of letting it all hang out from the get go, but then again i am not in your shoes.
--i bet she's more worried about finding something she can eat on the menu than worrying about what you're ordering
--oh yeah, one last thing. do not do like my SO and try to "convert" her by taking her to a prime rib house on initial dates that has no entrees except prime rib and fish. that sucked.
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jfood
Dec 8, 2006 12:15 AM
Please order as you please. The veg would have said the resto was difficult to eat in if there was a prob. Make sure neither you nor she fawn over the other's meal. She eats one way and you eat the other. Enjoy the Osso and rave about it if it deserves it and hopefully she will ove her dish as well. If she offers a taste, please try it, embrace the differences.
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chef chicklet
Dec 7, 2006 10:32 PM
My guess is that if it bothered her she would not agree to go, so enjoy your osso bucco - LUCKY!!!!
I was just thinking about how long its been since I made that wonderful stuff.... -
JoanN
Dec 7, 2006 09:45 PM
I spend a lot of time, at home, travelling, with a friend of more than 20 years who has now been in AA for about 12 years. I might not drink wine when we're having a casual dinner at home, but he's almost offended if I *don't* order wine, or even a cocktail, when we're out at a good restaurant. He knows how much I enjoy wine with a meal and would actually feel badly if he thought I was denying myself something pleasurable only because he chooses not to participate. I guess not all are as enlightened, but they should be.
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re: JoanN
cayjohan
Dec 7, 2006 10:06 PM
Yep. I can't eat much (uncultured) dairy, but I am never offended by someone enjoying an ice cream cone. Most "enlightened" alcoholics aren't offended by their dinner partners ordering glasses of wine with dinner.I have a friend with an allergy to strawberries, but she is not offended that others eat them.
Are "we" more offended when someone eats something that we choose not to eat, versus something that we cannot eat (for whatever reason, allergy or addiction)?
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cayjohan
Dec 7, 2006 08:29 PM
Um - I prefer pork and my husband and daughter prefer beef. Do we duel to an outcome? No. I like squash and my son prefers cabbage - again, no bloodshed. Why worry about what someone is eating or not eating (unless, as a parent, you are dealing with real young'uns that need guidance)? The faux pas inherent here is in pointing out/debating the different food choices of your dinner guests. Passing plates to taste? If you are in a group that likes to pass plates, your veg. companion can say "no thanks." You, if you are averse to a certain food, can also do the same.
Ignore the issue, essentially. She'll be okay.
BTW, I don't eat much meat. By choice. Because I like it as a flavor component, versus as a main course. Do I look at my husband askance because he tucks into a big steak? No.(I do taste, though.) He couldn't care less about my platter of black-bean-whatever.(He also tastes.)
We can all get along.
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bolivianita
Dec 7, 2006 06:44 PM
Will you be offended by her eating of vegetables? Will the sight of the meatless entree on her plate cause an unwanted gag reflex? Will you be morally or mortally offened? Eat what you want and enjoy it! She made a personal choice and she should be capable of respecting others choices in the same way that you/they respect hers.
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shanagain
Dec 7, 2006 06:37 PM
As for the wine issue - my mother and husband are recovering alcoholics. My stepfather and I frequently (happily) split a bottle of wine with dinner.
Our last Thanksgiving will forever be known as the one where my 15 year old son learned to make a proper margarita (no, no sampling for him), my 9yo finally beat us all at an extended Texas Hold 'Em family and friends tournament, and stepdad and I ended up doing shots of tequila at the poker table... much to my Mom and husband's amusement.
I've found that frequently, non-drinkers still take advantage of liquor even if they don't drink it themselves. Just ask the 9yo who won the tournament. ;-)
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onlytwomuses
Dec 7, 2006 11:55 AM
Dont worry. I would eat a cheeseburger in front of an Orthodox Jewish person, I just wouldnt offer a bite. Its fine. Unless this woman has issues other than her veg. lifestyle, shes not going to freak out everytime she sees someone wearing leather shoes, etc. She will simply stay true to her beliefs. But youre a nice person to worry--seriously.
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Casa SaltShaker
Dec 7, 2006 02:11 AM
I'd bet if it was the sort of thing that was going to bother her, she would have asked to meet at a different restaurant. She knows what she's getting into/going to. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Davwud
Dec 7, 2006 01:11 AM
Of course, you could take the approach of a buddy of mine. He ordered a shrimp cocktail at a fancy place. His girlfriend thought the idea of "Head on" shrimp was sick. So after he ate each one, he lined the decapitated head up on the far side of the saucer, staring at her.
LOL, needless to say, it doesn't bother her anymore and they're now married with three kids.
DT
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NovoCuisine
Dec 6, 2006 10:38 PM
Eat and drink up. Don't worry about it. Hopefully they enjoy their dish as much as you'll enjoy the osso buco. ......But I doubt that.
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I don't believe your choice to follow one path should be influenced by someone elses choice to follow a different one. Your freedom to choose, enjoy and relish your meal shouldn't be infringed upon. Personally, I wouldn't want to break bread with someone who got offended by what I chose to eat.
Hell, before you know it someone will suggest we ban Foie Gras. Oh, wait, thats' already happening. But, that topic is for another tread.
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Maybe sit next to the vegetarian and not across, so she doesn't have to watch ;-) This was my strategy with a friend who was queasy about eating food that still looked like the animal. We were going out to a seafood place and I was planning to get a steamed lobster, and I get rather involved in the *whole* lobster. So she sat next to me and I turned the critter over on its back, and enjoyed it as much as usual. Keep the conversation lively, and no one will pay attention to what anyone else is eating.
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Karl S
Dec 6, 2006 08:16 PM
Polite people do not notice what other people are eating or not eating. Polite people also are thereby freed from paying attention to non-polite people who are noticing what polite people eat or do not eat. It's really not an issue.
Any negative comment from one diner about the food another diner may be trying to enjoy is to be met by a complete change of topic so that the rudeness is not given a chance to be noticed.
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re: Karl S
Well said.
Your friend had the opportunity to decide whether or not she sat with meat eaters when she decided whether or not to accept (or extend) the invitation. The same goes for the wine. Since she did so knowing that this restaurant, like most, serves both meat and alcohol, you may safely and politely assume those things do not bother her.
Forget about it, and enjoy your meal.
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Just order what you would normally order and not think about what they think. If they really cared what you ate, they should tell you ahead of time if eating meat would bother them. For the subject to come up while looking and drooling over a menu is of poor taste on their part.
It's just as much their choice to order vegetable lasagna as it is for you to order the biggest, fattest osso bucco on the menu. You eat what you want and I'll eat what I want.
For them to get offended is as ludicrous as you getting offended at them for not ordering the osso bucco. If for some crazy reason they are offended......look elsewhere for dining partners.›6 Replies-
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re: pescatarian
Karl S
Dec 6, 2006 08:25 PM
After all, marrow is quite possibly the food that gave our species its dietary leap in evolution. Moreover, if you're going to kill an animal for food, it's better ethically to make use of as much of it as you can, rather than wasting most of it for a few select bits. Interestingly, what predatory animals consider the choice bits are things we treat as "offal" -- the kidneys and their fat are the ground zero of a kill.
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re: paulj
SanseiDesigns
Dec 7, 2006 05:22 AM
Is it polite for a vegetarian to react negatively to your personal dining choices in public? If you can enjoy the marrow and any other part of your meal with the accepted social graces expected in a public dining situation, why should you have to worry? You are being gracious in your consideration of your friend's feelings, but it is your evening as well. Enjoy!
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re: SanseiDesigns
You are here to do no harm to anyone,, and to live your own life by your standards: not anyone else's. That includes politics, color of hair, religion, and using your hands to suck out marrow bones. Besides, those dinky spoons they give you ever do the job they way they ought to.
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Your friend will be indulging her dietary proclivities "in front of you" so feel free to do the same. And, it's not as if you'll be sharing common "meat-contaminated" utensils; I've had vegetarian aquaintences that freak out about utensils and those that don't mind a bit(I prefer the latter). Go for it.
In my case...if my curiosity got the better of me, I'd just ask my vegetarian friend(I'm always interested in people's dining habits)...and, being me...if there was an "issue" I'd still order what I wanted...
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Eat!! CHEW!!!! TEAR!!!! RIP!!!!! MASTICATE!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENJOY!!!!!!!
I'll wager she's seen it all, and doesn't care. She's happy with her choice - good for her - so you must be equally happy with yours.
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re: Atlantis
excellent reply, I couldnt have said it better myself.
It is a two way street, the smell/sight of meat may not be something a vegetarian likes, but in turn the smell/sight of tofu, and some other vegetarian dishes is something many meat eaters dont like either.
Its a public place , and folks need to be more accepting of others diets, and not make a big deal out of it.
With that said I find vegetarins more critical of meat eaters, than the reverse. Why is that? I know I dont care what others eat, but have been subjected to snide comments about eating meat more times than I can count.
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re: swsidejim
wleatherette
Dec 7, 2006 02:04 AM
personally, i find the opposite to be true. i've seen a lot of people get VERY defensive/argumentative around vegetarians with no provocation, to the point that it often crosses over into plain rudeness.
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pescatarian
Dec 6, 2006 08:05 PM
I used to be a vegetarian and it never bothered me what other people ate as I was not a vegetarian for moral reasons (I even cooked it for others). Even if they are bothered, I say too bad - each to their own. You're in a restaurant, not in their home and you should be able to eat (and drink) whatever you enjoy and vice versa.
