348214 Mon Dec 04 21:42:18 -0800 2006 33 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 2069554 Had family stuff happening all weekend, which means no time for cooking, so lots of eating out! On Friday night, sister Janet of Reno was in town, so we took her to Lotus Garden for her first visit. Most of the meal was composed of old favorites, highlighted by the Lotus Garden roast crab, right out of the tanks. Big fat live fresh-roasted crabs, and they were delicious! By the way, the place wasn't very crowded, and while our group made a reservation for a party of six, it probably wasn't needed. Meanwhile, people were waiting in line to eat at Blue Plate next door...I mean, I like Blue Plate and all, but....if there is a better Vietnamese roasted garlic crab in this town than Lotus Garden, lead me to it! (In other words, get out there, especially during crab season! this place deserves your support!). Janet had to have her Mitchell's fix so we went afterwards, where I broke with my own tradition (baby coconut) and got ginger. It was very good, with big chunks of candied ginger, and perfect after a huge dinner. Also bought some of their eggnog, which we ended up not getting a chance to try until Sunday night: it is good, but sweeter than I like. (I prefer Strauss' version). Of course, it is better if the sweetness is cut with a hefty slug of brandy... Sunday early evening around five p.m. we were driving around the City, getting hungry and with vague plans to eat in Chinatown, when a parking place opened up just up the street from Thai House Express. Obviously a sign we were meant to eat there! Hubby was particularly convinced of that when he realized that Edinburgh Castle Pub is practically next door: he used to be a regular and tasted his first single malt there (maybe 20 years ago?), but I guess he had consumed a bit too much scotch there as he had forgotten the location... :-) Anyway, Thai House Express hit the spot, with a chaser at the Pub after, and while the pork leg stew over rice was as addictively good as always, we particularly enjoyed a special of silver noodles with Dungeness: a bit of heat, and shreds of sweet crab on top of the nicely done noodles, made for a delicious taste contrast. There wasn't a huge amount of crab in the dish, but then it was only $9 or so for a large portion. Of the dishes we had (the pork, the noodles, a duck larb special, and soup, the only one that didn't impress was the tom Yum Goong (chicken hot and sour) soup: warming on a cold afternoon, but not as flavorful as many versions I've had). The rest of my weekend meals were in Tracy, CA. Though one or two of them were actually pretty good, they paled compared to these two dinners....nothing like spending part of the weekend way, way out in the suburbs to make one appreciate San Francisco and more tolerant of its parking and traffic! Lotus Garden Vietnamese Cuisine 3216 Mission Street San Francisco, CA 94110 (415) 282-9088 Thai House Express 901 Larkin St San Francisco, CA 94109 (415) 441-2248 Edinburgh Castle http://www.castlenews.com/ Mon Dec 04 21:42:18 -0800 2006 10158 susancinsf 1 2069626 Thanks for the post. The roasted crab at Lotus Garden has always been one of my favorites there. Mon Dec 04 21:58:07 -0800 2006 2069554 19731 Calvinist 1 2069763 Thanks for the reminder. I haven't eaten in at Lotus Garden in a while (we usually get delivery). Any other recs from your visit? Mon Dec 04 22:36:08 -0800 2006 2069554 10157 farmersdaughter 2 2069783 I love the crepe, the raw beef salad, and the lemongrass chicken grilled tableside...all of which we had Friday night (as I said, my usual favorites). A dish we didn't order that I really have liked in the past is the squid salad....all the soups are great: we had the chicken soup Friday since one in our group was nursing a cold. I get delivery from Lotus Garden sometimes too, but the food is better when you eat there (especially the crab and stuff they do tableside). The soup delivers well. Mon Dec 04 22:39:45 -0800 2006 2069763 10158 susancinsf 3 2074351 I find the delivery from Lotus Garden to be painfully uneven, although I like eating at the restaurant quite a bit. Their crab is wonderful. Salads, on the other hand, have been extremely bland every time I've tried one. In addition to susaninsf's favorites, we like the BBQ pork balls, the grilled beef (better than the bo la lot here), and the green beans. Hey, they've got a website! http://www.lotusgardencuisine.com/ Wed Dec 06 06:27:38 -0800 2006 2069783 14494 bernalgirl 4 2074598 I am a huge Lotus Garden fan and really like the owner. That said, we never get delivery because they argue with you on the phone and charge extra fees. There is a delivery fee, and if you made the egregious mistake of ordering, for example, a bun dish in the evening, they would charge extra for that! There was yet a third fee they were trying to charge me for something, so I said forget it with the delivery. Lotus Garden has great food, though, and is totally worth supporting. They have even insisted on holding my baby while I was eating lunch. Incredible. Wed Dec 06 13:10:20 -0800 2006 2074351 10658 Atomica 4 2074961 Thanks for linking the website. Here's a photo of I'm assuming the roast crab on the website: http://www.lotusgardencuisine.com/gallery/14.jpg What kind of seasonings are on the roast crab? Price for crab says "seasonal" so how much is it going for these days? Wed Dec 06 15:42:22 -0800 2006 2074351 10371 Carb Lover 5 2075158 We forgot to look at the price of the crab when we ordered, or when we got the bill: weren't paying much attention...and now I can't find my receipt...can only tell you that the total bill with tax but without tip was around $220 (?) for soup for six, crepe, shaking beef, raw beef salad, another salad with pork, two big crabs, grilled chicken, a delicious prawns dish, a bottle of Sancerre from the list, possible (?) corkage on another bottle we brought with us (again, wasn't paying much attention, but don't think they charged corkage), rice, and a noodles dish. So, lots of food and we were stuffed for around $36 each, including wine, but I don't know how much of that was crab. My impression from past visits is that the crab is reasonably priced, but not cheap. Come to think of it, that total might have included tip. Janet may remember, sorry.... The seasonings include garlic and pepper/chile. I haven't noticed delivery charges, but I guess I don't pay a lot of attention (obviously), since I think the food is well priced. Others have noted they don't ordinarily serve bun in the evening; since I don't order it there, (and always go at night, not during day) it isn't an issue for me.... Wed Dec 06 16:49:27 -0800 2006 2074961 10158 susancinsf 6 2075258 The price of $38.00 sticks in my mind, but I might be wrong! Wed Dec 06 17:16:55 -0800 2006 2075158 10485 ChowFun_derek 6 2075292 Thanks, Susan. Sounds like you trust in the quality/value of the food such that exact pricing isn't a concern...a good sign. Sounds like quite a delectable feast! I need to find a place for dinner next Sat. in SF for a group of 11, 5 of those being kids ages 5-10. Is this place kid-friendly and easy for booking? Wed Dec 06 17:24:06 -0800 2006 2075158 10371 Carb Lover 7 2075976 yes...in fact on slow nites you will see the owners son (grandson?) doing his homework in the back (never seen him on a weekend). I'd call and book, taking the kids would be more than fine there. Wed Dec 06 19:58:37 -0800 2006 2075292 10158 susancinsf 7 2075988 Yes, I have to admit, we were going for the crab, and we were going to have the crab, regardless of cost, so none of us thought to ask! And, we were fine with the price. We had another hound with us (bsides me and Janet) giving input on the ordering, and I think at some point hubby was just looking at all of us in disbelief as we ordered more and more, and the other hound said, 'do you think we need three crabs?'. (Two were enough, but yes, I could have eaten my share of a third :-)) Yes, I did forget about that eggplant. Don't know how I could have: I only ate my share of it and hubby's. :-) Wed Dec 06 20:01:32 -0800 2006 2075292 10158 susancinsf 7 2077608 I'd say no unless your kids don't get fidgety between courses and can handle a longer dinner. We actually did this one night with a similar-sized group and the gap between courses was so long that the little ones were really losing it by the end. You'll get a resie no problem, and Lotus Garden is very family friendly for smaller groups (Kathy is lovely), but most younger kids don't do well with the "relaxed" pace. Note that we were there early and there were few other parties -- and we had a resie, so they were expecting us, so I have to believe it would be much worse at a typical dinner time. Thu Dec 07 05:37:26 -0800 2006 2075292 14494 bernalgirl 8 2077647 I have to say FWIW that I have never noticed a slow pace whenever I've been there (Though I haven't been there with kids, although I can the impatient sort about getting served). On the dinner above, the first dishes came almost right away, and there was actually no waiting or gap between courses. The two servers did consult to ask us what order we wanted the dishes, and what to bring together, and what later, and we asked them to pace it, but had we asked for it all at once, I am pretty sure they could have accomodated. Also, since we knew what we wanted, we ordered pretty much as soon as we arrived. Of course, it does take a while to really get all the meat out of the crabs.....:-) In any event, our reservation was at eight. I am reasonably sure we were home well before 11, including a twenty minute walk home plus the stop at Mitchell's (though admittedly this wasn't one of those warm nights with a half hour plus wait at Mitchell's.....) If it is a concern, and you decide to go there, you might want to mention when making the reservation or when arriving that you would like the service to be fairly fast. Thu Dec 07 06:02:08 -0800 2006 2077608 10158 susancinsf 6 2075460 My memory is $40 pp, including tip (and we tend to be reasonably generous tippers). I certainly felt it was reasonable for all the food and the quality. And you forgot that there was an eggplant dish there as well. I only mention it because the eggplant was delicious..... Wed Dec 06 18:01:07 -0800 2006 2075158 10290 janetofreno 6 2077073 Second Guessing (to guide my ordering when we go to Lotus Garden!) http://sanfrancisco.menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=40874&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=68 5. Banh Xeo 29. Beef Look Luck 11. Raw Beef Salad 48. Roast Crab Lotus Garden Style 21. Grilled Lemon Grass Chicken Did the salad with pork have shimp, also? Was it Garlic Noodles? This is what happens when I'm not there to enjoy dinner with Susan and Janet! I resort to menu scanning. Thu Dec 07 01:02:04 -0800 2006 2075158 13519 Cynsa 7 2077100 No, wasn't the garlic noodles, I think it was the pan stir fried noodles with chicken? I've had the garlic noodles: once they weren't very good, and two other times they were, so perhaps inconsistent. Yes, the salad was pork and shrimp, and wasn't my favorite item on the menu... but the squid with bamboo shoots is really good; I've had that before. BTW, the menu on the website is not as extensive as the actual, in-house menu. Thu Dec 07 01:11:27 -0800 2006 2077073 10158 susancinsf 8 2077738 The stir-fried noodles came with vegetables. And the eggplant is listed as in a coconut sauce, although it's more caramelized than that would lead you to believe. They also have a delicious mixed vegetables in the same coconut sauce. The chicken salad is better than the salad with pork and shrimp. And yes, I could have eaten another crab. We also had a double order of chicken soup, which was pleasant but not as good as the sweet and sour (tomatoes and pineapple) soup I had the time before. My memory is $43 each. I was there the week before (sadly, with a vegetarian, so no crab) and we spent $120 for 4 including a decent bottle of wine, tax, and tip. Thu Dec 07 07:07:03 -0800 2006 2077100 10966 Windy 5 2078577 The crab seasonings include garlic and chili, and it comes festooned with a huge amount of absolutely delicious fried onions. Crab price is determined by the pound, I believe. Last time we went we got an enormous one for $30. We've never had a problem with slow service, but then we're usually pretty much alone in the dining room, save for Kathy's kids doing their homework on the middle table by the hostess station. My one complaint is that it can be COLD in there and eating crab without taking off your jacket first can be really messy. Thu Dec 07 17:00:13 -0800 2006 2074961 12456 Euonymous 6 2080766 Thanks for everyone's comments. I'm not sure if LG is the right place for my upcoming group dinner, but I'll keep it in mind for future visits to SF. The crab and other dishes sound tasty! Fri Dec 08 02:59:47 -0800 2006 2078577 10371 Carb Lover 4 2077716 Oh, except the raw beef salad, which is fantastic. Thu Dec 07 06:44:11 -0800 2006 2074351 14494 bernalgirl 1 2070845 lol...I'm not sure Tracy qualifies as "way out suburbs": its just out there. But I thought the catered event had pretty decent food for that kind of thing; might be worth knowing the name should any chowhounds ever have a need. Lotus Garden was delicious....I will definitely be back, especially if its crab season. I also enjoyed the lemongrass chicken and the soup. Actually, everything was delicious! I too broke with tradition at Mitchell's (first time I've got anything other than mango!) to go with the ginger...and it was worth it! DH was in heaven that they actually had spumoni. All in all, a great evening, thanks! Tue Dec 05 05:47:30 -0800 2006 2069554 10290 janetofreno 1 2070870 Shoot, that's down the street. I'll have to check that out. Mmm, roasted craaaaab ... Tue Dec 05 06:04:17 -0800 2006 2069554 24783 Kosmonaut 1 2075184 The times we have brought wine, we have not paid corkage. Of course this was with larger parties where we ordered a lot of items, including the crab, which is the most expensive thing on the menu. I do find their delivery policies discourage us from using them, although I really like the food served in the resturant. They just don't have the full commitment to delivery in the way Jasmine Tea House and Dusit Thai (our other delivery alternatives) do. Wed Dec 06 16:55:33 -0800 2006 2069554 19731 Calvinist 1 2076940 based on this post, i went to thai house express today and got the crab noodles. they are on the specials menu and are crabby and eggy and tamarindy and absolutely fantastic; i had to resist not licking the plate. i ordered it medium spicy, but i think next time (i'm definetely going back soon!) i'll get it more hot. Thu Dec 07 00:21:36 -0800 2006 2069554 12336 artemis 2 2077103 glad you enjoyed them! I also ordered them medium, and thought the same thing: it had a bit of heat, but I could have gone for a bit more. Thu Dec 07 01:12:42 -0800 2006 2076940 10158 susancinsf 2 2077740 The crab noodles are on the specials menu, but they seem to always have it. I don't think it's meant to be spicy. I get it frequently at the THE in the Castro, which isn't quite as good as Larkin, but still the best Thai on the southeast side of town. Thu Dec 07 07:09:23 -0800 2006 2076940 10966 Windy 3 2090874 i went back again today, and dragged 8 friends with me. 6 of us got the crab noodles. i asked for 'medium spicy,' just like last time, but the noodles were definetely spicier than last time (many slices of chilis), and utterly delicious. spicy, hot, lots of crab and egg. next time i'd ask for an additional lime wedge. raves up and down the table with nary a noodle left on any plate. you owe it to yourselves to try this dish before it is gone until next year. Tue Dec 12 00:50:35 -0800 2006 2077740 12336 artemis 1 2077433 I took my husband and 15 year old son to Lotus Garden for dinner tonight. I'd been looking forward to the crab all day long. When we sat down my husband asked how much the crab was. The answer was around $35 but could be less based on size. He refused to order it (I was not at all happy). I wanted the pork balls but my son ordered the pork rolls. Thing were falling apart! We ended up wth Pork Rolls (kind of chewy - not so good - but nothing I would have ordered myself so I can't complain). The Raw Beef Salad - YUM. Eggplant with Garlic. This was tasty. Garlic Noodles with Shrimp. Lots of bits of crispy garlic. Again, not something I would have ordered but what I tasted was good. I'm looking forward to going back with someone who wants to order more of "MY CHOICES". Service was good. The grandson's were in the back doing their homework and playing and the place was basically empty but it was early. Thu Dec 07 03:47:07 -0800 2006 2069554 26794 SonnyJ 1 2078567 Yeah ..35...38...I thought it was about that much...definitely an indulgence...but it was for a large crab...and I ate the whole one myself..it came with garlic noodles, and I managed to down the whole crispy crepe appetizer with beef first...it was quite a night, even I don't know where I packed all that food in! Thu Dec 07 16:59:06 -0800 2006 2069554 10485 ChowFun_derek 1 2080846 How much does a crab go for at PPQ? Which is tastier? Fri Dec 08 03:46:40 -0800 2006 2069554 27310 Maple 1 2087707 OK, we went to Lotus Garden today based on this post, and I am so glad we did. We ordered all three crab dishes; on the menu they show two crab dishes - the roast crab, the crab in black bean sauce, and the third dish isn't on the menu - the owner called it "the third secret crab" - it's crab in coconut curry sauce. All were terrific; the crab in black bean and coconut curry sauce have chili in them, so if you don't like spicy food, be aware of this. The roast crab was my personal favorite of the three, and was just awesome. We also had the Vietnamese crepe appetizer, which was good. Service was great, they let us pick our own crab and the woman working there was very friendly and helpful. After the meal, we got finger bowls with fresh lemon to wash our fingers in. Highly recommended, especially considering crab season is *now.* Warning: this dining experience is not cheap. Total bill for 3 crabs, one appetizer, and three drinks came to $145. Mon Dec 11 01:47:22 -0800 2006 2069554 24783 Kosmonaut 1 2088081 We went to Lotus Garden for dinner on Friday night. It was raining pretty hard and the restaurant was empty other than a large group in the communal center table. Kathy, the owner, expressed her disappointment about the lack of customers; we hadn't been there in many months but she greeted us warmly and took care of us herself all night. We had one huge crab between the two of us which was $35, plus garlic noodles, the raw beef salad, the crepe and the grilled lemongrass chicken. The crab was incredible, with great balance of the ingrdients -- not too garlicy, spicy or anything and the sweet flavor of the fresh crab shone. We had a long discussion with Kathy on dishes that travel (for delivery) vs. dishes to eat at the restaurant, and she marked up a to-go menu for us with her suggestions of dishes to get when we get delivery rather than eating in. Very nice. Everything was wonderful as usual, and I hope she gets more business since I think she's not doing as well as she hoped. I'd hate to lose a great neighborhood place like this. Mon Dec 11 04:47:02 -0800 2006 2069554 10157 farmersdaughter 1 2089022 Which dishes did she indicate travel well? Mon Dec 11 16:59:11 -0800 2006 2069554 19731 Calvinist