346318 Tue Nov 28 14:45:41 -0800 2006 20 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 2052324 I have never eaten it--please let me know Tue Nov 28 14:45:42 -0800 2006 55914 marlie202 1 2052352 I'm curious too! Tue Nov 28 14:57:32 -0800 2006 2052324 11227 nissenpa 1 2052395 http://www.chowhound.com/search/std?q=pho&x=17&y=13&board_id=27 Tue Nov 28 15:21:42 -0800 2006 2052324 10732 JMF 1 2052524 First, the broth must be STEAMING HOT. I think thats most most most most important on my pho list. It makes you have such a feeling of warmth and coziness.. as do all soups. I personally think that the soup/broth can either make or break the pho. It must be hot and flavourful, after hours of making it from beef and beef parts (mainly bones). Next, meat must be tender and juicy and yummy and flavourful. The Pho maker must use good cuts of meat, to be cut into the thinnest pieces possible. Next, of course, the noodles themselves. Nice and soft yet resisting with a bit of chewiness. And smooth enough that you can slurp it up in your mouth. Last but not least, the veggies/herbs. There must be lots of scallions (green onions) and parsley (the other herb!) to make the whole meal an experience of its own.. its like being whisked away to Vietnam and back again. The herbs make the dish that much more fragrant and flavourful. Oh, and dont forget the lime! Some people dont like lime, but I find that it just puts a bit of umph into my pho, along with cracked black pepper. And the bean sprouts, they add that little bit of veggies in your meal. This is also for texture contrast as well--imagine a bite of soft and slurpy noodles with the contrast of crunchy bean sprouts!! The two comingling in your mouth is like having a party there. :) Other things to mention are the sauces--the sweet sauce, and the sriracha spicy one. These must also be of good quality, though I havent eaten a sauce that's of lower grade. Enjoy! Tue Nov 28 16:17:15 -0800 2006 2052324 12423 jennjen18 2 2052948 Parsley? I have only seen either cilantro or basil. But I agree about everything else, the broth must be rich and good, and I like a lot of lime in mine. Tue Nov 28 18:24:58 -0800 2006 2052524 18154 prunefeet 1 2052553 The pho expert on the home cooking board here is Carb Lover/Pei. You could write your query there and make it to her attention. She's done a lot of research and development towards perfecting the ideal pho at home. Also, she's very well versed on different and various components you'll want to shop for. Tue Nov 28 16:27:03 -0800 2006 2052324 23824 niki rothman 2 2052910 As much as I would love to take that title, I'm no pho expert. Carb Lover is the one who has posted several times about both her and her mother's pho. Niki, you seem to have melded us into one Chow entity (between this and the stand mixer query, which was me not Carb Lover). Not that it's your fault we like a lot of the same things! Tue Nov 28 18:12:40 -0800 2006 2052553 11577 Pei 3 2054208 Oh no! I apologize. For some reason at the time of my mixer excitement (hysteria?) I seem to remember some post saying you had changed your handle from Carb Lover TO Pei. But, (now) obviously you are 2 different people. I'm really sorry. It seems so insensitive of me. I did know it was Carb Lover who was the pho queen, but now I know You are the mix-mistress. Vive la difference! Wed Nov 29 00:42:18 -0800 2006 2052910 23824 niki rothman 1 2052593 Jennjen's criteria are pretty similar to what I like in pho, except I think she means cilantro instead of parsley. That's cilantro already in the broth. Some people also enjoy other herbs served on the side but I'm not that picky about those herbs. I'm a pretty stringent/picky pho eater, so I would add additional criteria: The raw beef slices must've been placed on top of the noodles after the broth is ladled in, not before, that way the steaming broth cooks & flavors only the outer edges leaving the middle still raw and soft. There should be a heady aroma wafting from the steam, a combination of meat bones cooked for hours with just a hint of the spices. The noodles shouldn't be a tight clump on the bottom. You can avoid this by ladling hot broth into the bowl, waiting two seconds before pouring the broth back into the stock pot, then ladling broth into the bowl once again to serve. Tue Nov 28 16:42:32 -0800 2006 2052324 10961 Alice Patis 2 2054917 Yes, cilantro. Forgive my ignorance in herbs. Wed Nov 29 08:04:38 -0800 2006 2052593 12423 jennjen18 1 2052639 The only things I would add are that the broth should have a rich mouth feel to it (lots of gelatin) and the fragrance should be a subtle perfume with the star anise and charred ginger etc. as blended notes. Can't stand thin broth that has a "one note" boiled star anise thing going on. Tue Nov 28 16:57:59 -0800 2006 2052324 17682 torty 2 2053107 That's exactly it! Tue Nov 28 19:10:54 -0800 2006 2052639 19937 Kater 1 2052801 Exactly, Pho should have blended subtle notes of spices with no one overpowering the others. The best part is choosing your cuts of meat. I usually go with rare tenderloin slices placed on top which you basically cook by dipping in the broth, well done brisket and tripe. The tendon isnt really to my liking so i usually leave this one out. The garnishes i like are saw leaf, basil, bean sprouts, and lime. I dont like the chile peppers b/c they overpower the subtleties of the broth. Personally i think the fresh lime really awakens all of the other flavours in the slow cooked broth. A nice touch of brightness to the dish. And usually by the end i will want a kick of spiciness i add some chile paste for the last few spoonfuls. Tue Nov 28 17:42:57 -0800 2006 2052324 12484 MVNYC 2 2052968 My Mom and Dad don't like to add lime to their pho because they thought it over-whelmes the broth. To me good pho is all about the broth. Tue Nov 28 18:30:45 -0800 2006 2052801 10195 KTinNYC 1 2053011 i hate it when at a restaraunt i can identify that i've gotten a re-used garnish plate bc the bean sprouts on the bottom are old, transparent & mushy, with fresh stuff stacked on top! this just happened to me yesterday! i've never gotten parsley as garnish, either, & most places give basil, with a couple giving cilantro. A slow made beef broth (i agree with torty, needs richness from gelatin) with subtle spices is essential, the garnishes are personal. I love the lime too, & like sriracha, hot peppers, hoisin, fresh herbs, sprouts, everything. i get mad cravings for pho, must admit that i've never felt the urge to try to make it myself because it is so good, available & inexpensive in my area. Tue Nov 28 18:44:07 -0800 2006 2052324 46030 soupkitten 1 2053930 Pho is also the ultimate hangover cure. the broth is really nutritious because it is made from bones and all of the b vitamins leach out from the marrow. Plus the ginger calms an upset stomach and it rehydrates you all at the same time. Pho and a vietnamese style coffee and you will be good to go. Tue Nov 28 23:04:11 -0800 2006 2052324 12484 MVNYC 1 2054278 It is all those things and more, but it is definitely not whatever they tried to pass as pho on Top Chef not too long ago. Wed Nov 29 01:06:43 -0800 2006 2052324 41818 Grubbjunkie 1 2054588 I just learned about pho this year. It is now a staple in my household. If you are in a place where this is possible, I recommend trying pho from five or six different restaurants (I'm in Chicago, so this was easy). I did this over the course of about two weeks. One week I believe I made my family eat pho for dinner four times ;-) (I saw no problem with that...but they got a little tired of it.) Anyhow, all the variety will make you familiar with little variations and you will learn what you really like and are looking for. It's incredibly delicious when made well. Wed Nov 29 03:31:53 -0800 2006 2052324 14063 Anne H 1 2054831 Alright, I'm going to disagree with a few people here. I think Pho is all about the herb plate and the noodles. If you get the raw beef slices, they add enough flavour to the broth that I am perfectly happy to get a weak(er) broth. There will a couple of other points of departure too. 1. The broth must not be so hot that it instantly cooks the beef all the way through. The best places keep the beef quite cold and add it in a tight clump so that the centre is still raw. But, really hot broth can undo all that. It must be hot, true. No one likes cold Pho. But, it can be too hot. 2. A weak broth is okay. I like a flavourful and balanced broth as much as the next guy. But, that can be hard to find. A flavourful and balanced broth can't have too much of anyone flavour and can't be excessively rich that a full large serving of pho comes across as too rich. All in all, the broth must be thin enough that you can see the bottom when delivered (not after it is stirred and not if it is Bun Bo Hue that is ordered). If you order tripe, tendon and raw beef and leave the tendon and tripe in the bowl till last the broth will always be flavourful enough. Greasy films on the broth are not allowed either. 3. The herb plate is a must. The sprouts must be plentiful enough that you can add some at the beginning to soften into noodle-like elements and have some left for the end for a crisp finish. There must be plentiful limes. Scallions can be optional unless you order Thit Bo Vien (beef balls). There must be Thai basil -- other basil is no substitute. Cilantro is optional unless you get those beef balls, as is ngo gai (sawtooth herb). However, they should have all of these one site and provide them if wanted. I always ask for ngo gai and hate it when they assume I can't possibly know what I want or claim not to have it and the show up with it for the Vietnamese people beside me. Pointing or writing it out work best for me. All of the above must be fresh and clean. In a good pho place you will almost always see someone at a table sorting and cleaning the herbs (unless, by some miracle, the kitchen is big enough to do it back there). 4. The noodles must have been well soaked first to remove that stale starchy flavour they can have if not properly refreshed. A pho place during a rush period is most likely to skip on the presoaking time and deliver starchy, stale tasting noodles. They must not be over soaked either. If they fall apart in the soup it is a travesty. I also have some strong feelings about cahn chua ca and a few other things too. But I'll shut up now. Wed Nov 29 06:17:10 -0800 2006 2052324 24055 Atahualpa 2 2055008 I'm kind of new to pho because a great little Vietnamese place opened up last year here in Naples (Miss Saigon) but one of my bosses and I are hooked on the place. She brought back a pho-to-go order yesterday and the whole office was redolent with aroma of Thai basil; that's what this pho maker uses too. It is truly divine! It drove us all nuts. Wed Nov 29 12:10:36 -0800 2006 2054831 11983 Val 1 2054987 Don't forget chicken pho! I make this very frequently because there's a shortage of good beef and beef bones where I live. Otherwise, I think the criteria are the same: rich, complex broth, fresh herbs, separate, un-mushy noodles. Chicken boiled in the broth till just done and still juicy. Sadly, I have to go out of town tonight for work. Otherwise, that would definitely be dinner! Wed Nov 29 11:37:57 -0800 2006 2052324 14139 Kagey