Safari problem still exists for me!!
- ChowFun_derek Nov 20, 2006 08:45 AM
At least once a day...Safari f*cks up when I post, and also sometimes I don't even have to post.......I still put in the automatic reports but nothing is resolved...are others' still having these problems, or are they localized to my computer?
Safari will occasionally become unstable for me, sometimes to include the behavior discussed here. I can achieve some success by cleaning cache (stuff buried deeply in the system, not the cache you can easily empty under the safari menu). I use Tiger Cache Cleaner, and I'm sure there are other applications that do the same thing. I also use DoktorKleanor, although I don't know what it does; it asks what's wrong and makes what it thinks are the necessary repairs.
The 'caches' that this blackmagicware is 'cleaning' are in /System/Library/Caches
and /Library/Caches folders. They are *extremely* unlikely to have anything whatsoever
to do with the specific problem at hand here: a coredump while redisplaying a
safari page. You can reasonably safely delete the files in these folders by hand
if you want to rather than paying good money for random software to do
it for you. Most of what these "cleaner" programs do is done on a regular schedule
(daily, weekly, monthly) by OS X automatically anyway.
This issue has nothing to do with caches, or the people in Cupertino. w3.org's validator shows hundreds of errors in the site's coding, any of which might be causing this issue:
This is a coding issue specific to the site, and not to Safari. Still, there is no reason that a crash should "reset" your browser. Are you suggesting that your bookmarks and preferences are gone, which is what happens after a browser reset?
No. Proper engineering requires building an application that *never* crashes
no matter what is thrown at it. The application Apple built crashes. This is a
bug on the Apple end. A properly built application *never* crashes on unexpected
input and yes, Apple's expectations for Safari require them to code at that level.
That said, until they fix it, which it does not appear they are going to do, it is
the responsibility of *everyone* who writes web applications to work around
the Apple bug if they expect apple customers to use their site. In this case,
it's the chowhound engineering team that needs to figure out what Apple is
doing wrong and then re-code CH to not trigger the bug.
library called Scriptaculous. This library is heavily used arond the web and provides
much of the magic we see here. It also seems to be where the bug lies. So it's not
even miscoding by the chowhound team.
This sort of engineering situation totally sucks and someone's gotta take the
re: Chuckles the Clone
I've been looking at the Safari forums at Apple Discussions and I don't see a problem with Safari crashing randomly, though I do see several (not especially recent) topics about how particular sites crash Safari regularly. I would cite URLs to these topics, but I don't know if that's allowed here.
In general, I continue believe that this issue probably has to do with the site's coding and its use of Java. And I agree with another poster who said that it's not something that would make me switch to another browser (though if it was, I would use OmniWeb or Camino before Firefox or Opera.)
Also, you wrote that:
" Most of what these "cleaner" programs do is done on a regular schedule
(daily, weekly, monthly) by OS X automatically anyway."
This is not correct. The daily script removes old log, scratch and temp files, backs up NetInfo's database and rotates system.log; the weekly script rebuilds the locate and whatis databases and rotates various log files (ftp.log, lookupd.log, mail.log, secure.log, and others), and the monthly script reports per-user usage and rotates wtmp.log, install.log and cu.modem.log files.
These scripts do not delete caches, and they have nothing at all to do with interthing-related activities. One would need to use Terminal or any of a dozen maintenance utilities to clean the various caches (System, User, Internet), though this generally not recommended as part of the normal maintenance of OS X, and often has the effect of slowing boot up time and application launches. One could conceivably go into Java and delete old scripts and caches from there, but if there is a problem with coding here on CH, that would be a waste of time. It's not something I would recommend inexperienced users do, in any case.
>> In general, I continue believe that this issue probably has to do with the site's
>> coding and its use of Java.
The site does not use java.
A properly-built application does not crash. Period. Safari crashes. It is not properly built.
>> Also, you wrote that:
>> " Most of what these "cleaner" programs do is done on a regular schedule
>> (daily, weekly, monthly) by OS X automatically anyway."
>> This is not correct.
I am correct. "Most". They run /etc/weekly (which os x does automatically anyway)
and delete /lib/caches (which has nothing to do with the problem at hand) and
charge you good money for it. Remember "disk optimizers"? Same unnecessary
(I have to get used to which Reply button to push around here. ;) )
Yes, I would say that this issue has nothing to do with Safari and everything to do with the coding of this site. If we were all experiencing the same issue using Safari to visit random, other sites, I might change my view, but I know that I am not experiencing the same issue elsewhere. This happens once in a while. When I (used to) use Camino to visit cbsnews.com, I experience(d) regular crashes, as well. That's not Camino's fault, either. It just means that the site is not coded with accessibility in mind, and certain browsers are going to be shut out. Have you ever tried to use Safari to view video at msnbc.com? Can't be done. mtv.com? Can't be done there either. Sometimes, that's by design, especially where Microsoft has interest in a site, and sometimes it's because the code monkeys are provincial and only want to (or know how to) work with IE in mind.
In the end, Chowhound is going to have to deal with this (or not).
As far as your immediate Safari question is concerned, part of it is semantics: your browser does not "reset" when it crashes or when you quit it. Resetting Safari, as you can do in the Safari menu in the menu bar, totally resets Safari's preferences. What is more likely happening with you is that your cookies are set to be trashed after a session because you are using either Safari's Private Browsing feature or a third-party utility that dumps your cookies on quitting a session. A session is the period of time between when you launch Safari and when you quit Safari. If you never quit Safari, and, like many Mac users, you never shut down your computer, then a session never ends. If you are using the Private Browsing feature and quit Safari (or it crashes), then the session ended, and you will have to log back in to any site that requires it before a session. If your cookies are not trashed after a session, then you should remain logged in whether or not you quit Safari between visits to a given site unless the cookies that site deposits are only for a given session.
Hope this helps.
I have several crashes of Safari after posting, yet my message seems to be posted ok.
I don't experience an Safari resets. (Safari, so good. Knock on wood.)
Breakingball's post was very lucid; thanks!
I also experience this problem. I use iMac Intel Duo with Tiger and everything updated to the latest versions. I use this computer multi-user. The administrator user does NOT experience this problem. a 'normal' user does have these problems. So I guess this has something to do with rights? I hope Apple will soon solve this.
I bought my Mac about 3 months ago and use Safari to access Chowhound. I've never had a problem with Chowhound crashing or not being able to access the functions/features. I have, however, found a few other quirks.